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why was jay-z such a late bloomer?

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Replies

  • #1 pick#1 pick Posts: 3,926 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2011
    Jay killed the Annie beat and his others songs were pretty good. I wouldn't say he's an intimater because he's more of a trendsetter. The thing is, his flow isn't great and really nothing he does rapping is great. He has an aura and excellent charisma. Not to mention his style always stands out. He is one rapper who clearly stands out by other things outside of rapping. Lil Wayne does too. Which is why in music natural talent is secondary. Entertaining is #1. If you can do both like Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston. Then you are truly special.
  • gman82gman82 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2011
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    Because Jay-Z is not an artist, he is an imitator. He has to wait for a trend to develop so he can follow it. He observes a formula and then he applies it. He sees who's hot in the game and he latches on to them for success.

    Case & Point:

    The criminal tales Jay-Z was spittin on Reasonable Doubt wasn't his lane previous to that album. "I Can't Get With That" nor "Da Graveyard" were anything like "D'Evils". It's not until you heard stuff like G Rap's "4, 5, 6", Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx" etc, did you hear him follow suit. Nas did the same, however, What makes him different from so many others was that he was invited into it. He was on G Rap's album, as well as AZ's "Doe Or Die" on "Mo Money, Mo Murder, Mo Homocide" which began The Firm. Jay just jumped in like he was everybody else.

    Diddy was dancin' around all dumb with bright videos and flashy gimmicks so Jay-Z made "Sunshine". Ruff Ryders came around and started deadin' that shiny suit shit and Jay-Z released "Money Cash Hoes" ft. DMX. When Hot Boys got play in 99, Jay invited Juvenile to do the hoot on "Snoopy Track". So on and so forth. To answer your question Jay-Z adapts to the times by emulating whatever is popular. He doesn't create anything. So it's not that he's a late bloomer, he just needs something popular to feed off of.

    /thread...
  • KeepinItHundredKeepinItHundred Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2011
    i'm disapointed in jigger warriors

    where's usmarine at? yall just gonna let these facts fly and not come with lame excuses like in the weezy thread?
  • c.b.b.c.b.b. Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2011
    Lol back when jay-z rapped like "i diggedy done this i diggedy done that"

    lol, yeah he was wack as hell.

    Rapping like Fu Schikens and Das Efx back in '94
  • Disciplined InSightDisciplined InSight The Clairvoyant One.... Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2011
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    Because Jay-Z is not an artist, he is an imitator. He has to wait for a trend to develop so he can follow it. He observes a formula and then he applies it. He sees who's hot in the game and he latches on to them for success.

    Case & Point:

    The criminal tales Jay-Z was spittin on Reasonable Doubt wasn't his lane previous to that album. "I Can't Get With That" nor "Da Graveyard" were anything like "D'Evils". It's not until you heard stuff like G Rap's "4, 5, 6", Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx" etc, did you hear him follow suit. Nas did the same, however, What makes him different from so many others was that he was invited into it. He was on G Rap's album, as well as AZ's "Doe Or Die" on "Mo Money, Mo Murder, Mo Homocide" which began The Firm. Jay just jumped in like he was everybody else.

    Diddy was dancin' around all dumb with bright videos and flashy gimmicks so Jay-Z made "Sunshine". Ruff Ryders came around and started deadin' that shiny suit shit and Jay-Z released "Money Cash Hoes" ft. DMX. When Hot Boys got play in 99, Jay invited Juvenile to do the hoot on "Snoopy Track". So on and so forth. To answer your question Jay-Z adapts to the times by emulating whatever is popular. He doesn't create anything. So it's not that he's a late bloomer, he just needs something popular to feed off of.

    This and nothing else. Case closed.
    To be a real hood you need more than just a gun. You need ideas.

    tumblr_m9zas2KcdZ1rnneano1_1280.gif
  • Idi Amin DadaIdi Amin Dada Posts: 3,192 ✭✭
    edited August 2011
    Would you rather be underpaid or overrated?
  • StoneColdMikeyStoneColdMikey mikeyismod CHITOWN THE BEST TOWNPosts: 32,929 Regulator
    edited August 2011
    Would you rather be underpaid or overrated?

    the latter
    #Mikeyismod2017
  • KeepinItHundredKeepinItHundred Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2011
    Would you rather be underpaid or overrated?

    thats more like it.
  • semi-auto-matosemi-auto-mato Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2011
    hard to put out a classic when u dont have a deal.
    R.I.P. to my Pops. Sunset 5/2/2017

  • darkraindarkrain Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2011
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    Because Jay-Z is not an artist, he is an imitator. He has to wait for a trend to develop so he can follow it. He observes a formula and then he applies it. He sees who's hot in the game and he latches on to them for success.

    Case & Point:

    The criminal tales Jay-Z was spittin on Reasonable Doubt wasn't his lane previous to that album. "I Can't Get With That" nor "Da Graveyard" were anything like "D'Evils". It's not until you heard stuff like G Rap's "4, 5, 6", Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx" etc, did you hear him follow suit. Nas did the same, however, What makes him different from so many others was that he was invited into it. He was on G Rap's album, as well as AZ's "Doe Or Die" on "Mo Money, Mo Murder, Mo Homocide" which began The Firm. Jay just jumped in like he was everybody else.

    Diddy was dancin' around all dumb with bright videos and flashy gimmicks so Jay-Z made "Sunshine". Ruff Ryders came around and started deadin' that shiny suit shit and Jay-Z released "Money Cash Hoes" ft. DMX. When Hot Boys got play in 99, Jay invited Juvenile to do the hoot on "Snoopy Track". So on and so forth. To answer your question Jay-Z adapts to the times by emulating whatever is popular. He doesn't create anything. So it's not that he's a late bloomer, he just needs something popular to feed off of.

    YOU NAILED IT. I always said that shit to everyone.

    To OP, I don't think his age has nothing to do with it, he's just not ready.
  • StoneColdMikeyStoneColdMikey mikeyismod CHITOWN THE BEST TOWNPosts: 32,929 Regulator
    edited August 2011
    JokerzWyld post sums it up
    #Mikeyismod2017
  • CoolJoeCoolJoe Posts: 6,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2011
    all these other emcees were putting out classics in their early 20s, or teen years(mobb deep)

    did jay just need to watch and learn to gain pointers?

    What is the premise of the thread? I mean regardless he is still top 5 ever, regardless.
  • Kwan DaiKwan Dai Posts: 6,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    Because Jay-Z is not an artist, he is an imitator. He has to wait for a trend to develop so he can follow it. He observes a formula and then he applies it. He sees who's hot in the game and he latches on to them for success.

    Case & Point:

    The criminal tales Jay-Z was spittin on Reasonable Doubt wasn't his lane previous to that album. "I Can't Get With That" nor "Da Graveyard" were anything like "D'Evils". It's not until you heard stuff like G Rap's "4, 5, 6", Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx" etc, did you hear him follow suit. Nas did the same, however, What makes him different from so many others was that he was invited into it. He was on G Rap's album, as well as AZ's "Doe Or Die" on "Mo Money, Mo Murder, Mo Homocide" which began The Firm. Jay just jumped in like he was everybody else.

    Diddy was dancin' around all dumb with bright videos and flashy gimmicks so Jay-Z made "Sunshine". Ruff Ryders came around and started deadin' that shiny suit shit and Jay-Z released "Money Cash Hoes" ft. DMX. When Hot Boys got play in 99, Jay invited Juvenile to do the hoot on "Snoopy Track". So on and so forth. To answer your question Jay-Z adapts to the times by emulating whatever is popular. He doesn't create anything. So it's not that he's a late bloomer, he just needs something popular to feed off of.

    What the Homie said. Not to mention dude just wasn't that Nice. We are talking about a time when Brooklyn was spitting out MC's like automatic weapons. Boot Camp, Bush Babies,Special Ed,Cella dwellas,Das EFX,Jeru, group home etc etc. It took some one like dame to beg scratch and claw to get him on. Even with Big Daddy Kane, Jazo, (this is the late 80's very early 90's mind you) and Irv giving him burn time he didn't have a buzz, hype or anything close to it. He just wasn't nice on the Mic. Therefor no one was checking for him.
  • Kwan DaiKwan Dai Posts: 6,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    50 cent was 27 when get rich or die tryin dropped

    The game was 26 when the documentary dropped

    Jay electronic is 34 and his album hasnt dropped

    J cole is 26 and his album hasnt dropped

    Kanye west was 26 when college dropout dropped

    em was 26 when slim shady lp dropped

    big pun was 27 when capitol punishment dropped

    All were older or the exact same age as jigga when rd dropped

    And we could argue all day about these artist releasing Classic albums and material as well. All popular? Sure!. Classic? Standing the test of time? Ground breaking? I don't think so.
  • coolc31coolc31 Posts: 517 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    He told you Bee High hated the fact he put rap to the back. I don't think anyone can honestly answer this question besides Jay or someone that was close to him during his pre-Reasonable Doubt days. I do know once he got his foot in the door he didn't let up. I don't think he did too bad for a dude that couldn't make it as some of you say. You should ask why all his peers aren't in his position since they started so young.
  • KeepinItHundredKeepinItHundred Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Dmx was 27 when its dark and hell is hot dropped

    And every person I named was/is jay z peers and were 26 or older when they dropped a classic album

    back to the drawin board wit your jigga hate

    his true peers are g-rap rakim and big daddy kane, he's as old as them.
  • KeepinItHundredKeepinItHundred Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    coolc31 wrote: »
    He told you Bee High hated the fact he put rap to the back. I don't think anyone can honestly answer this question besides Jay or someone that was close to him during his pre-Reasonable Doubt days. I do know once he got his foot in the door he didn't let up. I don't think he did too bad for a dude that couldn't make it as some of you say. You should ask why all his peers aren't in his position since they started so young.

    nobody is denying jay-z's buisness skills. but this is strictly a hip hop question. jay's finanncial status can't save him here.
    and yes jay didn't let up, he was great at taking styles that are popular and running with them to stay relevant.
  • Me1971Me1971 Posts: 232 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    Because Jay-Z is not an artist, he is an imitator. He has to wait for a trend to develop so he can follow it. He observes a formula and then he applies it. He sees who's hot in the game and he latches on to them for success.

    Case & Point:

    The criminal tales Jay-Z was spittin on Reasonable Doubt wasn't his lane previous to that album. "I Can't Get With That" nor "Da Graveyard" were anything like "D'Evils". It's not until you heard stuff like G Rap's "4, 5, 6", Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx" etc, did you hear him follow suit. Nas did the same, however, What makes him different from so many others was that he was invited into it. He was on G Rap's album, as well as AZ's "Doe Or Die" on "Mo Money, Mo Murder, Mo Homocide" which began The Firm. Jay just jumped in like he was everybody else.

    Diddy was dancin' around all dumb with bright videos and flashy gimmicks so Jay-Z made "Sunshine". Ruff Ryders came around and started deadin' that shiny suit shit and Jay-Z released "Money Cash Hoes" ft. DMX. When Hot Boys got play in 99, Jay invited Juvenile to do the hoot on "Snoopy Track". So on and so forth. To answer your question Jay-Z adapts to the times by emulating whatever is popular. He doesn't create anything. So it's not that he's a late bloomer, he just needs something popular to feed off of.

    Don't most rappers follow trends to stay relevant? Was Jay going out his way to do tracks with Akon, T-Pain, Lil Mo or whoever when it was the trendy thing to do? Look at Em, he raps on more southern sounding beats now and he did a collab with Rhianna which seems to be the industry standard, isn't he hoping on a trend? You ever notice how Nas was following the flashy trend from 96-2001, a trend that people swore Jay monopolized. Ya'll not giving him enough credit for his risk taking, you guys are overlooking things out of biasdness. People don't remember that Jay put out a classic album with two relatively unknown producers doing a majority of the production (Kanye and Just Blaze), those dudes definitely weren't indemand at the time (they weren't even signed). The Blueprint sound changed the sound of hip hop for a while because then other groups started putting they're spin on the soulful sound; who came after them, the Diplomats with the Heatmakers, Terror Squad with the early Cool N Dre Production ect ect. Jay even had the Hitmen produce a large majority of the American Gangster album, what trend was he following with that? Was Roc Boy's a trendy record? Was Kingdom Come a trendy album? The dude was like the first rapper to do songs with Chris Martin. There wasn't even a mainstream hip hop realease that year (2007) that sounded like American gangster.....and it was succesful. He featured UGK on Big Pimping, that wasn't trendy (for the time). What trend was he hoping on with Can I Get A with putting Amil and unknown Ja Rule on the track? or Nigga What Nigga Who when he featured Jaz-O on the track?
  • CirocObamaCirocObama Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    50 cent was 27 when get rich or die tryin dropped

    The game was 26 when the documentary dropped

    Jay electronic is 34 and his album hasnt dropped

    J cole is 26 and his album hasnt dropped

    Kanye west was 26 when college dropout dropped

    em was 26 when slim shady lp dropped

    big pun was 27 when capitol punishment dropped

    All were older or the exact same age as jigga when rd dropped

    Game had just turned 25 when Documentary dropped (November 1979 is his birthday according to Wiki, and Documentary dropped January 2005)

    Also how can you not agree with what JokerzWyld said? Instead of bringing up other artists? SMH.
  • Me1971Me1971 Posts: 232 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Kwan Dai wrote: »
    And we could argue all day about these artist releasing Classic albums and material as well. All popular? Sure!. Classic? Standing the test of time? Ground breaking? I don't think so.

    You really don't think Puns first album, Get Rich or Die Trying, College Dropout, The Documentary, Slim Shady LP are up for discussion as classic albums? Get Rich or Die Trying wasn't ground breaking? Where you in the U.S. in 2003 when that album dropped? College Dropout wasn't ground breaking?
  • Kwan DaiKwan Dai Posts: 6,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Me1971 wrote: »
    Don't most rappers follow trends to stay relevant? Was Jay going out his way to do tracks with Akon, T-Pain, Lil Mo or whoever when it was the trendy thing to do? Look at Em, he raps on more southern sounding beats now and he did a collab with Rhianna which seems to be the industry standard, isn't he hoping on a trend? You ever notice how Nas was following the flashy trend from 96-2001, a trend that people swore Jay monopolized. Ya'll not giving him enough credit for his risk taking, you guys are overlooking things out of biasdness. People don't remember that Jay put out a classic album with two relatively unknown producers doing a majority of the production (Kanye and Just Blaze), those dudes definitely weren't indemand at the time (they weren't even signed). The Blueprint sound changed the sound of hip hop for a while because then other groups started putting they're spin on the soulful sound; who came after them, the Diplomats with the Heatmakers, Terror Squad with the early Cool N Dre Production ect ect. Jay even had the Hitmen produce a large majority of the American Gangster album, what trend was he following with that? There wasn't even a mainstream hip hop realease that year (2007) that sounded like American gangster.....and it was succesful. He featured UGK on Big Pimping, that wasn't trendy (for the time). What trend was he hoping on with Can I Get A with putting Amil and unknown Ja Rule on the track? or Nigga What Nigga Who when he featured Jaz-O on the track?

    You tell us if, Jays peers such as Nas, G-Rap, Kane, Tupac, Biggie, Wu-Tang, Ice Cube, Jaz O, Rakim etc etc. were following trends?

    In regards to your crediting Kanye, and Just Blaze with this soulful sound I simply point you to RZA who was doing this years before Kanye and Just Blaze. Rza didn't name names but he did mention on the double CD producers who were stealing his sound.
  • Kwan DaiKwan Dai Posts: 6,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Me1971 wrote: »
    You really don't think Puns first album, Get Rich or Die Trying, College Dropout, The Documentary, Slim Shady LP are up for discussion as classic albums? Get Rich or Die Trying wasn't ground breaking? Where you in the U.S. in 2003 when that album dropped? College Dropout wasn't ground breaking?

    What I think doesn't matter. What I said, was we could argue if, these albums are indeed classic. And No I do not think GRDT, CD were ground breaking. I am willing to hear why you think they are.
  • Me1971Me1971 Posts: 232 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Kwan Dai wrote: »
    You tell us if, Jays peers such as Nas, G-Rap, Kane, Tupac, Biggie, Wu-Tang, Ice Cube, Jaz O, Rakim etc etc. were following trends?

    In regards to your crediting Kanye, and Just Blaze with this soulful sound I simply point you to RZA who was doing this years before Kanye and Just Blaze. Rza didn't name names but he did mention on the double CD producers who were stealing his sound.

    Im well aware of the back-lash Kanye recieved from Rza...and Pete Rock at the time. Yeah Rza sampled soul loops (every once in a while) like on Wu's first album when he did the Can It All Be So Simple beat but his style was a little different than Kanye's and Just Blaze. Kanye even stated on the end of College Dropout that he "re-surged the soul sampling". A majority of mainstream Hip Hop records had a polished sound to it at the time so it was sort of left field and risky for Jay to do such a soulful album like that when Vol 3 was quite the opposite and Vol 3 was sucessful.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    look at o.g. juan (chasinbenjamins) and ty ty (Me1971) in here defending jigga ....

    niggas popping up with fresh acounts out the blue giving posts like they jigga's right hand and shit ....
  • Me1971Me1971 Posts: 232 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Kwan Dai wrote: »
    What I think doesn't matter. What I said, was we could argue if, these albums are indeed classic. And No I do not think GRDT, CD were ground breaking. I am willing to hear why you think they are.

    College Dropout was groundbreaking for it's unique sound, and dude's first single was him rapping his mouth wired shut and it was succesful who else has done that, he also realeased Jesus Walks which was a very risky song especially if you're a Roc-a-fella artist...but the record was successful and it did good in the clubs lol. He was also able to do all of the production without any of the beats sounding the same (but cohesive) and i've never heard that on an album before. The Bearnie Mac Skits, the long outro talking about how he got in the game, Jesus Walks, resurrecting Jamie's career with slow jams, the videos. He won grammy's off his first album....and I believe it was even voted like best hip hop album of the last decade plus it got 5 mics in the source. 50's album is groundbreaking just mostly off the massive success it had and it made alot of artist follow that album formula....plus the music was great.
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