Xmen Vs Avengers

jaxn

hopefully Marvel gives this crossover justice and it doesn't fizzle out like Fear Itself

yeah i rap so don't

Namor is going to wreck some Avengers

Lou Cypher

Got both issues this last weekend! shit is dope so far. Hated how issue one leaves you on that cliff hanger. Get to see one blast from cyclops and thats it.

Bcotton5

IDK how they are going to deal with Thor, seems like Thor is part of the Secret Avengers thats out in space trying to stop the Phoenix from reaching earth though

Lou Cypher

I need to pick up some avengers comics. i just got the new avengers assemble. some sort of reboot i beleive. not sure if it takes place after the movie or if its tied in with the movie. Whats a good Xmen Comic and avengers comic i should peep?

Cain1

yeah i rap so don't wrote: »

Namor is going to wreck some Avengers

Him and Red Hulk still have beef so that will be a good fight. Honestly Scarlet Witch could kill off either side just thinking it so it will be good to see how she is played to the series.

Shizlansky

Thor is a fucking GOD

He's the son of the greatest warrior of all-time Odin

I said it before Thor and hulk will wreck shit so bad in the.beginning that the xmen would be all fucked up.

Bloo Q

Shizlansky87 wrote: »

Thor and Hulk > every xmen

Colossus as the Avatar of Cyttorak disagrees with you.

Cain Marko went toe to toe with Thor when he was Juggernaut and pretty much won. Thor's hammer did absolutely nothing to Cain, Thor's lightning didn't faze him, and his most powerful blows only made Cain "pause" briefly before he nearly killed Thor. Even with his protective field stripped away, Juggernaut was a match for Thor. One would imagine that Colossus being enhanced with the ruby would be even stronger than Cain Marko when you consider that Colossus was already Class 90 strength without the ruby and Cain Marko was a simple human before he found the jewel but was at Class 100/Class X as Juggernaut.

Right now, Colossus as Juggernaut should be able to kill Thor without much resistance. He's definitely Class X, so it's pretty much up to the writers to figure out just how Thor dies in that fight.

Against the Hulk, however, it's not so clear. The Cain Marko Juggernaut could actually hold his own against an enraged Hulk thanks to his impervious nature: No matter how hard Hulk hits him, he cannot damage him. The two don't need sleep or food, so theoretically the fight could go in indefinitely. An enraged Hulk vs a continuously powered up Juggernaut is a fight that might never end.

But they HAVE fought, and each has won against the other.

This may change now that an already powerful Colossus is being enhanced as Juggernaut. I've always held Hulk at the top of the strength list with Juggernaut at an extremely close #2. With Colossus as Juggernaut, it could possibly be a tie.

jaxn

Juggs isn't stronger than Thor though. His durability is his biggest strength..

Bcotton5

Juggs/Colossus is stronger than everyone lol, he literally IS strength

yeah i rap so don't

Colossus is not going to be Avatar of Cyttorak in this story arch. Looks like the first major battle will be in the water, Namor is going to wreck The Thing and should be able to wreck a lot of Avengers. He has fought Iron Man to a stand-still on dry land before. Cyclops kind of weak for Namor and Iron Man dicking down Emma Stone while he was with her and still wifing her tho. Outside of that Cyclops too g for this shit, but so is Cap.

Bloo Q

jaxn wrote: »

Juggs isn't stronger than Thor though. His durability is his biggest strength..

Technically, Juggernaut has ALWAYS been stronger than Thor. The only being in the Marvel Universe ever able to go heads up, blow for blow with him has always been Hulk. Marvel's writers and editors have acknowledged this on several occasions over the years. During the "Eighth Day" arc in The Mighty Thor, Juggernaut snatches up Thor in a bearhug that Thor can't break free from. If he was stronger than Cain, he could have freed himself. Instead, Thor felt like he was going to blackout from being crushed.

Doctopian

Bloo Q wrote: »

jaxn wrote: »

Juggs isn't stronger than Thor though. His durability is his biggest strength..

Technically, Juggernaut has ALWAYS been stronger than Thor. The only being in the Marvel Universe ever able to go heads up, blow for blow with him has always been Hulk. Marvel's writers and editors have acknowledged this on several occasions over the years. During the "Eighth Day" arc in The Mighty Thor, Juggernaut snatches up Thor in a bearhug that Thor can't break free from. If he was stronger than Cain, he could have freed himself. Instead, Thor felt like he was going to blackout from being crushed.

To be fair, Juggernaut was more powerful than usual during the Eighth Day Arc. Historically, they've been portrayed as roughly peers in strength, with Juggernaut having the edge in physical confrontations due to far greater durability. When Thor removed Juggernaut's shield, he commenced to beating his ass, but couldn't finish the job in 60 seconds.

Doctopian

Bloo Q wrote: »

Shizlansky87 wrote: »

Thor and Hulk > every xmen

Colossus as the Avatar of Cyttorak disagrees with you.

Cain Marko went toe to toe with Thor when he was Juggernaut and pretty much won. Thor's hammer did absolutely nothing to Cain, Thor's lightning didn't faze him, and his most powerful blows only made Cain "pause" briefly before he nearly killed Thor. Even with his protective field stripped away, Juggernaut was a match for Thor. One would imagine that Colossus being enhanced with the ruby would be even stronger than Cain Marko when you consider that Colossus was already Class 90 strength without the ruby and Cain Marko was a simple human before he found the jewel but was at Class 100/Class X as Juggernaut.

Right now, Colossus as Juggernaut should be able to kill Thor without much resistance. He's definitely Class X, so it's pretty much up to the writers to figure out just how Thor dies in that fight.

Against the Hulk, however, it's not so clear. The Cain Marko Juggernaut could actually hold his own against an enraged Hulk thanks to his impervious nature: No matter how hard Hulk hits him, he cannot damage him. The two don't need sleep or food, so theoretically the fight could go in indefinitely. An enraged Hulk vs a continuously powered up Juggernaut is a fight that might never end.

But they HAVE fought, and each has won against the other.

This may change now that an already powerful Colossus is being enhanced as Juggernaut. I've always held Hulk at the top of the strength list with Juggernaut at an extremely close #2. With Colossus as Juggernaut, it could possibly be a tie.

What you say is true in theory, but I doubt that will be how things play out. Sure, having the abilities of the Juggernaut gives Colossus a significant power up, but I doubt that his strength will be literally added with that of Juggernauts. From what I've got out of the interviews, he'll beat Ross and lose to Banner.

Bloo Q

Doctopian wrote: »

Bloo Q wrote: »

Shizlansky87 wrote: »

Thor and Hulk > every xmen

Colossus as the Avatar of Cyttorak disagrees with you.

Cain Marko went toe to toe with Thor when he was Juggernaut and pretty much won. Thor's hammer did absolutely nothing to Cain, Thor's lightning didn't faze him, and his most powerful blows only made Cain "pause" briefly before he nearly killed Thor. Even with his protective field stripped away, Juggernaut was a match for Thor. One would imagine that Colossus being enhanced with the ruby would be even stronger than Cain Marko when you consider that Colossus was already Class 90 strength without the ruby and Cain Marko was a simple human before he found the jewel but was at Class 100/Class X as Juggernaut.

Right now, Colossus as Juggernaut should be able to kill Thor without much resistance. He's definitely Class X, so it's pretty much up to the writers to figure out just how Thor dies in that fight.

Against the Hulk, however, it's not so clear. The Cain Marko Juggernaut could actually hold his own against an enraged Hulk thanks to his impervious nature: No matter how hard Hulk hits him, he cannot damage him. The two don't need sleep or food, so theoretically the fight could go in indefinitely. An enraged Hulk vs a continuously powered up Juggernaut is a fight that might never end.

But they HAVE fought, and each has won against the other.

This may change now that an already powerful Colossus is being enhanced as Juggernaut. I've always held Hulk at the top of the strength list with Juggernaut at an extremely close #2. With Colossus as Juggernaut, it could possibly be a tie.

What you say is true in theory, but I doubt that will be how things play out. Sure, having the abilities of the Juggernaut gives Colossus a significant power up, but I doubt that his strength will be literally added with that of Juggernauts. From what I've got out of the interviews, he'll beat Ross and lose to Banner.

Letter from the editors of The Hulk from '94, where it's stated that Juggernaut is more powerful thanks to the power he gets from Cyttorak.

Doctopian

Bloo Q wrote: »

Letter from the editors of The Hulk from '94, where it's stated that Juggernaut is more powerful thanks to the power he gets from Cyttorak.

I've seen it before, but there are two issues: First, that is the opinion of the staff who worked at Marvel nearly twenty years ago. Secondly, the books themselves don't clearly convey that sentiment. Sure, Juggernaut managed to knock the Hulk out during this time period, but he had to resort to using a disguise and a surprise attack to do it. Also, Cyttorak and Juggernaut's relationship has changed a bit since that book was published. Namely, the power Cyttorak doesn't supply Juggernaut with limitless power, just however much he wants him to have at any given time. The amount of power Juggernaut gets usually correlates with the amount of destruction he causes. It has been shown that when Cain tried the go the hero route, Cyttorak punished him by limiting the amount of power that he had (he mad him weaker and less durable).

Cain1

When Cain is at strongest he is the strongest being ever created. When he juggernaut prime he punched a whole into a time space continuum even defeating the Cyttorax god. Marvel will not let any being be stronger than Hulk especially since he is the franchise character as of late.

Doctopian

Cain Marko wrote: »

When Cain is at strongest he is the strongest being ever created. When he juggernaut prime he punched a whole into a time space continuum even defeating the Cyttorax god. Marvel will not let any being be stronger than Hulk especially since he is the franchise character as of late.

I don't know if I would go quite that far, but he is leagues stronger than almost any Hulk who has seen print (the version of Hulk that vaporized top tier characters as a side effect of his fight with Red She Hulk might be an exception).

jaxn

Bloo Q wrote: »

jaxn wrote: »

Juggs isn't stronger than Thor though. His durability is his biggest strength..

Technically, Juggernaut has ALWAYS been stronger than Thor. The only being in the Marvel Universe ever able to go heads up, blow for blow with him has always been Hulk. Marvel's writers and editors have acknowledged this on several occasions over the years. During the "Eighth Day" arc in The Mighty Thor, Juggernaut snatches up Thor in a bearhug that Thor can't break free from. If he was stronger than Cain, he could have freed himself. Instead, Thor felt like he was going to blackout from being crushed.

Marvel's editorial has never acknowledged Juggernaut as being stronger than Thor..during the Eighth Day Juggernaut arc, Cain had a powerup. While he is a CL 100 character, Cain's deal is his durability and his unstoppability..once he gets going you can't push him back or stop him..that's why it was a big deal when War Hulk stopped Cain's movements. He's not stronger than Thor under normal portrayals though

jaxn

Doctopian wrote: »

Bloo Q wrote: »

jaxn wrote: »

Juggs isn't stronger than Thor though. His durability is his biggest strength..

Technically, Juggernaut has ALWAYS been stronger than Thor. The only being in the Marvel Universe ever able to go heads up, blow for blow with him has always been Hulk. Marvel's writers and editors have acknowledged this on several occasions over the years. During the "Eighth Day" arc in The Mighty Thor, Juggernaut snatches up Thor in a bearhug that Thor can't break free from. If he was stronger than Cain, he could have freed himself. Instead, Thor felt like he was going to blackout from being crushed.

To be fair, Juggernaut was more powerful than usual during the Eighth Day Arc. Historically, they've been portrayed as roughly peers in strength, with Juggernaut having the edge in physical confrontations due to far greater durability. When Thor removed Juggernaut's shield, he commenced to beating his ass, but couldn't finish the job in 60 seconds.

exactly

jaxn

Doctopian wrote: »

Bloo Q wrote: »

Letter from the editors of The Hulk from '94, where it's stated that Juggernaut is more powerful thanks to the power he gets from Cyttorak.

I've seen it before, but there are two issues: First, that is the opinion of the staff who worked at Marvel nearly twenty years ago. Secondly, the books themselves don't clearly convey that sentiment. Sure, Juggernaut managed to knock the Hulk out during this time period, but he had to resort to using a disguise and a surprise attack to do it. Also, Cyttorak and Juggernaut's relationship has changed a bit since that book was published. Namely, the power Cyttorak doesn't supply Juggernaut with limitless power, just however much he wants him to have at any given time. The amount of power Juggernaut gets usually correlates with the amount of destruction he causes. It has been shown that when Cain tried the go the hero route, Cyttorak punished him by limiting the amount of power that he had (he mad him weaker and less durable).

Agreed..

Bloo Q

Doctopian wrote: »

Bloo Q wrote: »

Letter from the editors of The Hulk from '94, where it's stated that Juggernaut is more powerful thanks to the power he gets from Cyttorak.

I've seen it before, but there are two issues: First, that is the opinion of the staff who worked at Marvel nearly twenty years ago. Secondly, the books themselves don't clearly convey that sentiment. Sure, Juggernaut managed to knock the Hulk out during this time period, but he had to resort to using a disguise and a surprise attack to do it. Also, Cyttorak and Juggernaut's relationship has changed a bit since that book was published. Namely, the power Cyttorak doesn't supply Juggernaut with limitless power, just however much he wants him to have at any given time. The amount of power Juggernaut gets usually correlates with the amount of destruction he causes. It has been shown that when Cain tried the go the hero route, Cyttorak punished him by limiting the amount of power that he had (he mad him weaker and less durable).

All this is true, but the focus now should be Colossus as Juggernaut. I explained all of that to show that Cain and Hulk have been at a near stalemate for decades, with the edge going to Hulk. Knowing this, I would expect an enhanced Colossus to be able to beat Thor to a pulp, and at the very least hold his ground indefinitely against Hulk if not beat him at least once. Colossus now has access to the same unlimited power that Cain did so while it won't necessarily be an easy victory he could, in theory, still win against Hulk.

Doctopian

Bloo Q wrote: »

All this is true, but the focus now should be Colossus as Juggernaut. I explained all of that to show that Cain and Hulk have been at a near stalemate for decades, with the edge going to Hulk. Knowing this, I would expect an enhanced Colossus to be able to beat Thor to a pulp, and at the very least hold his ground indefinitely against Hulk if not beat him at least once. Colossus now has access to the same unlimited power that Cain did so while it won't necessarily be an easy victory he could, in theory, still win against Hulk.

True, but I imagine Colossus' character will play a role in how powerful he can become. Piotr is far more moral than Cain ever was.

jaxn

Hopefully all the fights will be good

Bloo Q

Doctopian wrote: »

Bloo Q wrote: »

All this is true, but the focus now should be Colossus as Juggernaut. I explained all of that to show that Cain and Hulk have been at a near stalemate for decades, with the edge going to Hulk. Knowing this, I would expect an enhanced Colossus to be able to beat Thor to a pulp, and at the very least hold his ground indefinitely against Hulk if not beat him at least once. Colossus now has access to the same unlimited power that Cain did so while it won't necessarily be an easy victory he could, in theory, still win against Hulk.

True, but I imagine Colossus' character will play a role in how powerful he can become. Piotr is far more moral than Cain ever was.

yes he is, however when enraged he's known to kill. It would need to be that Colossus that would have the best chance of beating Hulk.