WHAT QUALIFIES GOAT STATUS?

Yroc

freshb651 wrote: »

so is Ludacris one of the GOATS ?

no. he needs a classic album first.

TheFix

Subjective thought cannot be quantified. It always depends on frame of refrerence. There's only one statistical quantification and that's sales, which everyone here will concur, doesn't factor into the realm of rap greatness.

usmarin3

How does sales not factor in, sales is a byproduct of impact. You think Pac, Jay, Nas, and Biggie are so popular worldwide based on hiphop heads word of mouth, they transcended the genre by selling.

There is something those guys have that niggas like AZ, Ras Kass, and other technically proficient mcs don't have.

[Deleted User]

presence, skill, song quality, and classics .....

lamontbdc

TheFix wrote: »

Subjective thought cannot be quantified. It always depends on frame of refrerence. There's only one statistical quantification and that's sales, which everyone here will concur, doesn't factor into the realm of rap greatness.

perfectly said

TheFix

You basically just told me Soulja boy is better than beanie sigel Usmarin3.

juan travolta

classic music. Or influenced a lot of other rappers.

usmarin3

TheFix wrote: »

You basically just told me Soulja boy is better than beanie sigel Usmarin3.

faulty logic, you guys always go to the lame ass Soulja Boy, Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer,etc excuse.

You cannot dismiss the star factor and greatness factor that separates the average rapper out there (Beanie Sigel) from the great rappers (Nas, Pac,etc) who came into the game and made a global impact.

You wouldn't compare Malcom X to some average nigga in a local chapter of the Nation of Islam in some state would you. You have give credit to the nigga who did it on the highest level and transcended culture.

Stop using the Soulja Boy excuse, use the Jay-z, Nas, Pac, DMX, Outkast, Scarface,etc comparison. There have been great rappers who have sold albums, that's what makes them great beyond being technically proficient.

birdcallaveli

according to rap genius, camron is the goat

http://rapgenius.com/posts/Introducing-rapmetricstm-the-birth-of-statistical-analysis-of-rap-lyrics

TheFix

Oh ok. Heres a better one then. Tupac has outsold scarface 10 times over. I will venture to say....... Pac < face and without typing an essay, i'll inform you i'm armed with a smith and wesson .500 of arguements at my disposal. Im just not doing it on a smartphone, i cant even quote hahahaha.

lamontbdc

usmarin3 wrote: »

TheFix wrote: »

You basically just told me Soulja boy is better than beanie sigel Usmarin3.

faulty logic, you guys always go to the lame ass Soulja Boy, Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer,etc excuse.

You cannot dismiss the star factor and greatness factor that separates the average rapper out there (Beanie Sigel) from the great rappers (Nas, Pac,etc) who came into the game and made a global impact.

You wouldn't compare Malcom X to some average nigga in a local chapter of the Nation of Islam in some state would you. You have give credit to the nigga who did it on the highest level and transcended culture.

Stop using the Soulja Boy excuse, use the Jay-z, Nas, Pac, DMX, Outkast, Scarface,etc comparison. There have been great rappers who have sold albums, that's what makes them great beyond being technically proficient.

I would agree with you if we were talking about transcendent rappers who were dam near bigger than the genre itself. But we talking about GOAT status that relates to your skills, quality of music, and longevity. That's why Hammer and soulja boy aren't in the conversation and Jay and Pac are in the conversation. this isn't about star power, or how big of a reach a rapper has. But that's just how i look at it. We all have different perspectives. Like when I argue about the best football player of all time nobody talks about how many shoes Jerry Rice sold. When we argue about the GOAT in basketball do we talk about Jordan's shoe deal or his on the court accomplishments? When we talk about Jordan the man and his total reach in the sports world then you talk about his shoes and all that shit. But in terms of the GOAT we stick to his work on the court.

MC The Rapper

It obvious people still believe in santa claus

usmarin3

lamontbdc wrote: »

usmarin3 wrote: »

TheFix wrote: »

You basically just told me Soulja boy is better than beanie sigel Usmarin3.

faulty logic, you guys always go to the lame ass Soulja Boy, Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer,etc excuse.

You cannot dismiss the star factor and greatness factor that separates the average rapper out there (Beanie Sigel) from the great rappers (Nas, Pac,etc) who came into the game and made a global impact.

You wouldn't compare Malcom X to some average nigga in a local chapter of the Nation of Islam in some state would you. You have give credit to the nigga who did it on the highest level and transcended culture.

Stop using the Soulja Boy excuse, use the Jay-z, Nas, Pac, DMX, Outkast, Scarface,etc comparison. There have been great rappers who have sold albums, that's what makes them great beyond being technically proficient.

I would agree with you if we were talking about transcendent rappers who were dam near bigger than the genre itself. But we talking about GOAT status that relates to your skills, quality of music, and longevity. That's why Hammer and soulja boy aren't in the conversation and Jay and Pac are in the conversation. this isn't about star power, or how big of a reach a rapper has. But that's just how i look at it. We all have different perspectives. Like when I argue about the best football player of all time nobody talks about how many shoes Jerry Rice sold. When we argue about the GOAT in basketball do we talk about Jordan's shoe deal or his on the court accomplishments? When we talk about Jordan the man and his total reach in the sports world then you talk about his shoes and all that shit. But in terms of the GOAT we stick to his work on the court.

Jerry Rice analogy is bad with the shoes, most people think Rice is the goat because of his longevity and stats. Most people think Jordan is the goat because of his stats and how he transcended basketball. Both of those dudes you name have the statistics, which is basically what album sales are.

If you aren't gonna quantify goat, then anyone can throw out random names. It has to be based on something that's quantifiable and not opinion.

straight sho

birdcallaveli wrote: »

according to rap genius, camron is the goat

http://rapgenius.com/posts/Introducing-rapmetricstm-the-birth-of-statistical-analysis-of-rap-lyrics

he is

usmarin3

TheFix wrote: »

Oh ok. Heres a better one then. Tupac has outsold scarface 10 times over. I will venture to say....... Pac < face and without typing an essay, i'll inform you i'm armed with a smith and wesson .500 of arguements at my disposal. Im just not doing it on a smartphone, i cant even quote hahahaha.

To me Pac can do what Face does, Face can't do what Pac does. Pac is a more well rounded artist imo, he can make music that hits different demographics.

TheFix

And all of that is subjective right? You said it, not me.

TheFix

What you just said may be very true usmarin, but no artist ever has touched me like scarface, i feel like he's givin niggas like me a voice. But what you said is true also, therein lies sucjectivity. We can have different opinions and views, and still both be accurate in our positions. I rest my case.

lamontbdc

usmarin3 wrote: »

lamontbdc wrote: »

usmarin3 wrote: »

TheFix wrote: »

You basically just told me Soulja boy is better than beanie sigel Usmarin3.

faulty logic, you guys always go to the lame ass Soulja Boy, Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer,etc excuse.

You cannot dismiss the star factor and greatness factor that separates the average rapper out there (Beanie Sigel) from the great rappers (Nas, Pac,etc) who came into the game and made a global impact.

You wouldn't compare Malcom X to some average nigga in a local chapter of the Nation of Islam in some state would you. You have give credit to the nigga who did it on the highest level and transcended culture.

Stop using the Soulja Boy excuse, use the Jay-z, Nas, Pac, DMX, Outkast, Scarface,etc comparison. There have been great rappers who have sold albums, that's what makes them great beyond being technically proficient.

I would agree with you if we were talking about transcendent rappers who were dam near bigger than the genre itself. But we talking about GOAT status that relates to your skills, quality of music, and longevity. That's why Hammer and soulja boy aren't in the conversation and Jay and Pac are in the conversation. this isn't about star power, or how big of a reach a rapper has. But that's just how i look at it. We all have different perspectives. Like when I argue about the best football player of all time nobody talks about how many shoes Jerry Rice sold. When we argue about the GOAT in basketball do we talk about Jordan's shoe deal or his on the court accomplishments? When we talk about Jordan the man and his total reach in the sports world then you talk about his shoes and all that shit. But in terms of the GOAT we stick to his work on the court.

Jerry Rice analogy is bad with the shoes, most people think Rice is the goat because of his longevity and stats. Most people think Jordan is the goat because of his stats and how he transcended basketball. Both of those dudes you name have the statistics, which is basically what album sales are.

If you aren't gonna quantify goat, then anyone can throw out random names. It has to be based on something that's quantifiable and not opinion.

True. I see your point in that sales are the only thing that isn't based solely on our differing opinions. The music is too subjective. I just tend to have folks who want to use sales as the end all be all of arguments and forget about the actual music. but what i like isn't what you like and vice versa.

J. Daniels

lol @ everybody trying to define what qualities 'the GOAT' should posses, when it's just a personal opinion. Most people around the world would say pac is the GOAT, I agree on most days.

TheFix

^^^ thats all i been tryin to say ^^^

soufside.supastar

when u get genuine luv from everywhere no matter how many records u sell..