New Discovery, our origin is in Asia not Africa

Alkindus

Well they're basing this on 37 million old jaws found in Myanmar.

Reconstructing the origin and early evolutionary history of anthropoid primates (monkeys, apes, and humans) is a current focus of paleoprimatology. Although earlier hypotheses frequently supported an African origin for anthropoids, recent discoveries of older and phylogenetically more basal fossils in China and Myanmar indicate that the group originated in Asia.

Given the Oligocene-Recent history of African anthropoids, the colonization of Africa by early anthropoids hailing from Asia was a decisive event in primate evolution. However, the fossil record has so far failed to constrain the nature and timing of this pivotal event. Here we describe a fossil primate from the late middle Eocene Pondaung Formation of Myanmar, Afrasia djijidae gen. et sp. nov., that is remarkably similar to, yet dentally more primitive than, the roughly contemporaneous North African anthropoid Afrotarsius.

Phylogenetic analysis suggests that Afrasia and Afrotarsius are sister taxa within a basal anthropoid clade designated as the infraorder Eosimiiformes. Current knowledge of eosimiiform relationships and their distribution through space and time suggests that members of this clade dispersed from Asia to Africa sometime during the middle Eocene, shortly before their first appearance in the African fossil record. Crown anthropoids and their nearest fossil relatives do not appear to be specially related to Afrotarsius, suggesting one or more additional episodes of dispersal from Asia to Africa. Hystricognathous rodents, anthracotheres, and possibly other Asian mammal groups seem to have colonized Africa at roughly the same time or shortly after anthropoids gained their first toehold there.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/05/29/1200644109

Some sick shit aint it?

whats your take on this?

The Lonious Monk

It does seem they are taking liberties here. They found one jaw with teeth that appear to be more primitive than contemporary bones found in Africa. They have no idea how it got there. No evidence of other people living at the same time. And no evidence to support this migration from Asia to Africa. I'm not saying it's untrue. However, I do think it's a little silly to find one small piece of evidence and then claim it automatically debunks all the evidence to the contrary.

whar

What is the controversy here? All this says is Apes may have arose in Asia and migrated to Africa. Humans, a specie of Ape, arose in Africa. Heck since the earliest mammals are found in North America you could argue our origins are Canadian. But that dilutes the meaning of the word origin.

NoCompetition

Considering I been hearing mankind originated in East Africa my whole life from reputable experts and anthropoligists all over the world, this means nothing until its been more substantiated by more reputable sources than an internet site. sorry.

Alkindus

whar wrote: »

What is the controversy here? All this says is Apes may have arose in Asia and migrated to Africa. Humans, a specie of Ape, arose in Africa. Heck since the earliest mammals are found in North America you could argue our origins are Canadian. But that dilutes the meaning of the word origin.

Why would it? if we could trace the apes(or whatever We were) all the way back to Canada than yes, our origin would lay in Canada. You could say it dilutes the meaning of the word origin but only if you believe in a barrier/boundary at some point and don't wish to search further.

Alkindus

NoCompetition wrote: »

Considering I been hearing mankind originated in East Africa my whole life from reputable experts and anthropoligists all over the world, this means nothing until its been more substantiated by more reputable sources than an internet site. sorry.

It's just the latest discovery, many will follow. That being said we(read the form/skeleton whatever you call it) did indeed originate in East Africa. This discovery is about our ancestors, our oldest ancestors came from North Africa, now they come from the far East(Myanmar/China).

hell maybe tomorrow they'll find some older ape fossils in Russia or wherever, point being is the search of our origins is ongoing, non conclusive at the moment. No such thing as absolute truth yet.

Alkindus

The Lonious Monk wrote: »

It does seem they are taking liberties here. They found one jaw with teeth that appear to be more primitive than contemporary bones found in Africa. They have no idea how it got there. No evidence of other people living at the same time. And no evidence to support this migration from Asia to Africa. I'm not saying it's untrue. However, I do think it's a little silly to find one small piece of evidence and then claim it automatically debunks all the evidence to the contrary.

Supposedly, they found several ancient ape fossils in China/Myanmar, the 37 million year old jaw seems to be the oldest thus far.

The Lonious Monk

Alkindus wrote: »

The Lonious Monk wrote: »

It does seem they are taking liberties here. They found one jaw with teeth that appear to be more primitive than contemporary bones found in Africa. They have no idea how it got there. No evidence of other people living at the same time. And no evidence to support this migration from Asia to Africa. I'm not saying it's untrue. However, I do think it's a little silly to find one small piece of evidence and then claim it automatically debunks all the evidence to the contrary.

Supposedly, they found several ancient ape fossils in China/Myanmar, the 37 million year old jaw seems to be the oldest thus far.

I'm confused. Is it even from a homo sapien, or is this some precursor?

Alkindus

The Lonious Monk wrote: »

Alkindus wrote: »

The Lonious Monk wrote: »

It does seem they are taking liberties here. They found one jaw with teeth that appear to be more primitive than contemporary bones found in Africa. They have no idea how it got there. No evidence of other people living at the same time. And no evidence to support this migration from Asia to Africa. I'm not saying it's untrue. However, I do think it's a little silly to find one small piece of evidence and then claim it automatically debunks all the evidence to the contrary.

Supposedly, they found several ancient ape fossils in China/Myanmar, the 37 million year old jaw seems to be the oldest thus far.

I'm confused. Is it even from a homo sapien, or is this some precursor?

Precursor I believe, so far they've only found precursors on the African continent(the oldest I mean). So it's potentially another missing link discovered.

Alkindus

SawedOff-N-SkiMask wrote: »

Can anybody tell me specifically how u can tell how old a Jaw is? Most especially 1,000,000 years old (let alone 37 million).... we have time, don't worry


No one is saying don't be open minded or be biased but don't u think it's strange how it's always European /White anthropologist throwing this stuff out there or nobody caught onto that?


They're trying to turn Africa into nothing more than a giant poor and self destructive continent, haven't you caught onto the repetiveness by now or do u believe everything u hear by people you've never heard of by people who take pleasure in shitting on anything African?

Carbon dating for example, my English is to limited to explain to you in detail but basically they uncover layers of earth, the deeper the layer of earth the older the fossils are. Maybe not the greatest allusion but kinda like when you cut a tree in half, you can count the rings within determining it's age. They use a lot of other DNA techniques and so on I'm sure others on this board can explain to you in much better detail than me lol.

I'm a Moroccan myself so I understand your plight regarding others trying to shit on Africa, but honestlty those people aren't worth the time and from what I've read so far the people that made this discovery aren't into discrediting other people/Africans.

bambu

The thread title is misleading......

The link only provides access to the abstract...

"However, the fossil record has so far failed to constrain the nature and timing of this pivotal event."

Therefore, the entire thesis is flawed. Even if it could stand up to peer reviews, it does little to change the African origins of human civilization.

I will keep an open eye for more evidence supporting this theory. However, this research is based on limited resources, I would expect more for such a substantial claim:

1. Beard, K. C., L. Marivaux, Y. Chaimanee, J.-J. Jaeger, B. Marandat, P. Tafforeau, A.
N. Soe, S. T. Tun, and A. A. Kyaw. 2009. A new primate from the Eocene Pondaung
Formation of Myanmar and the monophyly of Burmese amphipithecids. Proceedings
of the Royal Society B-Biological Sciences 276:3285-3294.

2. Kay, R. F., J. G. Fleagle, T. R. T. Mitchell, M. Colbert, T. Bown, and D. W. Powers.
2008. The anatomy of Dolichocebus gaimanensis, a stem platyrrhine monkey from
Argentina. Journal of Human Evolution 54:323-382.

3. Swofford, D. L. 2003. PAUP*. Phylogenetic Analysis Using Parsimony (*and Other
Methods). Version 4. Sinauer Associates, Sunderland, Massachusetts.

Alkindus

@bambu

Yeah I made the threadtitle that way so more people could check it out and give their opinion, Social Lounge been dead for a while now. I even posted the same topic in the grown and sexy lol.

but anyway, they've found some fossils in Asia that look to be of predecessors of us/mankind/hominid beings whatever you wanna call it. Our species as we know it now still originates from Africa. So this doesn't debunk the out of Africa theory.

We've just found the oldest (great) ape fossils ever is what it all comes down to. a species that lived millions of years before the homo sapiens walked the earth/existed.

bambu

No doubt @Alkindus....

It seems like an interesting thesis, I am trying to get at the entire paper.

Alkindus

But thats the thing bro, we've found like a 100 different hominid skeletons all in different layers, from homo habilis,homo erectus to homo sapiens, there have been many different forms of great apes, we have had many different skeletons before we became the species we are today. It's all well documented, google some info about hominids if you like.

Cool thing is when you check out some of the creatures that lived on this planet the last 100 million years you'll find the strangest beasts( 5 meter high apes ones walked the earth man lol, can you imagine that?)

Sion

SawedOff-N-SkiMask wrote: »

I tried telling my Aunt Jesus was really Asian once but she got too furious to listen to it.


But they've been trying to discredit any and everythi g Africa for years, just look at the language they used. The boundary lines between Africa and Asian are man-made from what I've heard (and I could be wrong).


But isn't it POSSIBLE that Africa and Asia coulda been beefin or tradin shit across the boarder and someone had a deformed/cut-off head or something crae just to make a statement or sell it at the Flea Market?


We're talking about a single Jaw here, there's no body, no other bones, no nothing...just what is presumed to be a Jaw.


Do u know that they're also saying that Egyptians weren't really Dark skinned and Chocolate Brown skinned Africans but they were more of the complexion of Jews and Greeks. I'm all for Egypt being the "new york city" for back in the day becuz of its close proximity to Asia and Greece but Egypt is in Africa no matter how u wanna cut it and the people of Egypt were Chocolate. U don't sit in the middle if the scorching hot desert and stay vanilla, nature has never worked that way.

With all due respect to T/S I don't want to go off on a tangent or nothing but I have to co-sign this.....

ESPECIALLY the last paragraph.

Man I think I need more to go on, if they found a body or something it might impact my views. But how the hell can they identify teeth or jaw that old but can't ID teeth from like 100 years ago ? Iuno man shit just dont add up.....

I think SawedOff made a very good post overall tho.....

Sion

SawedOff-N-SkiMask wrote: »

Can anybody tell me specifically how u can tell how old a Jaw is? Most especially 1,000,000 years old (let alone 37 million).... we have time, don't worry


No one is saying don't be open minded or be biased but don't u think it's strange how it's always European /White anthropologist throwing this stuff out there or nobody caught onto that?


They're trying to turn Africa into nothing more than a giant poor and self destructive continent, haven't you caught onto the repetiveness by now or do u believe everything u hear by people you've never heard of by people who take pleasure in shitting on anything African?

They still tryna destroy our roots and history..... be surprised by how many young kids today don't know that in Africa we were once Kings and Queens and were the first to actually create math, science, astrology and all that. A lot of these young ass kids don't know that the Greeks and Asians came to Africa to learn and up their education. Now you'd be hard pressed to find kids under 22 who even know that.....

Alkindus

@sion,sawed

mannnnnnn I know all about upper Egypt, bumped the book of the dead for while, have the enuma elish right next to it, those that study history in a objective manner know that Africa/West Asia is loaded with riches and was crucial for human civilisation advancement as we know it today. From Al Jazari and his castle clock to the likes of Avicenna, Al Kindi etc in the medical department, our alphabet comes from West Asia, aswell as the numbers we use and so on.

but really, it's probably cause you cats live in America and endure the post apartheid society....lol nah honestly I don't know shit about America really, but if you cats believe in all that stuff regarding that 'they' are destroying African history' there might be some truth in it but best believe I'm not coming from that direction.

Just educate yourself (and thus your fam), don't get caught up believing in the shit those that hate you/you hate believe.

Alkindus

lol I get what you're saying but half of the world lives in poverty, can't read/write/ no education nothing bro. It's kinda of a sad world honestly and this world, best believe don't give as much about the US/struggle of Americans as you might think. Most poeple aren't that knowledgable and have more pressing matters to attend to. From what I know many people either look up to Americans or hate them with a passion, the latter seems to be whats it all about the last few years.

It is indeed the truth, cause it's your truth and really that is what makes your world. I know I'm vaguely preachin right now but don't let negative images ruin your world.

I for one never viewed African Americans as uneducated, best believe I ain't the only one outside the states that believs that

Alkindus

lol @sawedoff wtf? You think I'm afraid of you? seriously dude?

I basically said in a polite way that the world doesn't give a damn about America nor it's citizin's plight, you were talking that 'the world views African Americans as uneducated etc etc'. You don't know the world like that, you think people in Morocco or Mauritania give a fuck about America like that and view African Americans like this and that? There 7 billion people out here son and not even 350 million of em live in the USA.

You think to much in 'they and we' ,you're stigmatized/got a complex, think its the world against you and shit.... if anything you should fear me, the free man.

Hell your government already fears folk like me, not because I'm a free man but because I'm arab lol, you should stop bitchin son, if anything has been made clear the last few years than it's the hate against arabs/muslims, yet I remain untouched by that shit, you know why? Cause I refuse to care about how some other dudes view me.

whar

Alkindus wrote: »

whar wrote: »

What is the controversy here? All this says is Apes may have arose in Asia and migrated to Africa. Humans, a specie of Ape, arose in Africa. Heck since the earliest mammals are found in North America you could argue our origins are Canadian. But that dilutes the meaning of the word origin.

Why would it? if we could trace the apes(or whatever We were) all the way back to Canada than yes, our origin would lay in Canada. You could say it dilutes the meaning of the word origin but only if you believe in a barrier/boundary at some point and don't wish to search further.

Implied in the OP's title is the origin of the Human race. This origin occurs in Africa and begins about 6million years ago. Apes dating to 37 million years ago would point to the origin of Apes. This could well have been in Asia but it encompasses the origin of all apes rather than specifically humans.

By allowing the definition of terms within a question to drift you allow an answer to become over broad. This dilutes its value. Tying the origin of Humans to a 37 million year bones is similar to stating that the answer to 2+2 is a number between -3 and 7. While correct it is of little value.

Alkindus

@sawedoff

This thread might not be thought provoking to you, it might be to someone else, it's about the a new discovery in the origins of man.

It's a simple matter really

analyze your own posts, you were bringing a lot of ignorance in this thread, talking about the possibility of Africans and Asians trading/beefing with eachother not comprehending that the ancestors/apes in question were primitive beings, we were animals 30 million years ago bro.

You might not have learned anything about the 'moors' at primary/highschool but where I'm from we learned about all their dynasties,empires,wars and so on. It's Moroccan history lol. I know that African history gets ignored/whitewashed in America but we don't ignore our heritage in the African nations, nobody is teaching the American worldview over there. I can understand how many Americans have to learn about African history through selfstudy instead of it gettin teached at primary/highschool and therfor the info regarding the diverse rich heritage might come as revelations but really, where I'm from it's nothing but general knowlegde, primary/highschool shit....

Alkindus

whar wrote: »

Alkindus wrote: »

whar wrote: »

What is the controversy here? All this says is Apes may have arose in Asia and migrated to Africa. Humans, a specie of Ape, arose in Africa. Heck since the earliest mammals are found in North America you could argue our origins are Canadian. But that dilutes the meaning of the word origin.

Why would it? if we could trace the apes(or whatever We were) all the way back to Canada than yes, our origin would lay in Canada. You could say it dilutes the meaning of the word origin but only if you believe in a barrier/boundary at some point and don't wish to search further.

Implied in the OP's title is the origin of the Human race. This origin occurs in Africa and begins about 6million years ago. Apes dating to 37 million years ago would point to the origin of Apes. This could well have been in Asia but it encompasses the origin of all apes rather than specifically humans.

By allowing the definition of terms within a question to drift you allow an answer to become over broad. This dilutes its value. Tying the origin of Humans to a 37 million year bones is similar to stating that the answer to 2+2 is a number between -3 and 7. While correct it is of little value.

All depends on perception, without those apes there would be no such thing as the human race(as you know we are nothing but great apes). therfor they are our origins, our ancient ancestors.

like I said previously, it's all about where you draw the line, some start 6 million years ago, the other 7/8 and beyond. When one discusses the origins of man why not go as far as you can go?

Sion

SawedOff-N-SkiMask wrote: »

That's a half ass snooti way to put it. U sound like you're about to troll real hard right now becuz you've been upfrontted on your studies.


It's easy to say to the black guy that he's mad and confused than talk to him as yourself and say what u really feel, like admitting that you're just afraid of him.


*thats a middle finger by the way*

Come on fam, Alkindus is good peoples and was just making a point..... please don't derail homey's thread.......

loch121

Yall do know Asia and Africa was one continent at one pt rt?

bambu

loch121 wrote: »

Yall do know Asia and Africa was one continent at one pt rt?

Exactly.....

I just came across another one of these articles at Discovery newsnews.discovery.com/animals/early-human-ancestor-asia-120604.html


I think these researchers have a clear agenda to revise the origins of man. Around 40 million years ago India had just met Asia forming the Himalayas and Australia had just separated from Antarctica. How can you differentiate between continents if they were connected by "floating mats of vegetation?"

UPTOWN CONNEXX

The Lonious Monk wrote: »

It does seem they are taking liberties here. They found one jaw with teeth that appear to be more primitive than contemporary bones found in Africa. They have no idea how it got there. No evidence of other people living at the same time. And no evidence to support this migration from Asia to Africa. I'm not saying it's untrue. However, I do think it's a little silly to find one small piece of evidence and then claim it automatically debunks all the evidence to the contrary.

this is a great non biased post

i agree 100%

but at the end of day, not only is africa the beginning of civilization and life on earth, but all this primate non sense doesnt even apply to africans anyway

fact is, these european taught and european minded "scholars" and "scientists" are desperate to take every drop of african orgin from every aspect of life. the hate for black people is just out right ridiculous at this point.
i wouldnt even be suprised if new history books came out next school year saying the slave trade never existed