Role Models: Held to Impossible Standards of Perfection or Reasonable Expectations of Greatness?

RodrigueZz

Based on the new Elmo pedophile thread I just checked out. A poster made a comment about Kevin Clash being a positive black male role model. This brought something to my mind that I have noticed a lot in the media and the thought processes of the general public. Individuals hold ridiculously high standards to entertainers, or anybody in the public eye really - to the point where making mistakes, which humans are prone to doing, is condemned, punished mercilessly, and frequently ends careers. It is absolutely absurd though, considering that the people who hold these expectations often times are dead beats, single-parents, ex-sluts/whores, drop outs, and all other types of people that many would deem "losers and failures" solely based on their mistakes.

Not excusing pedophilia by any means, it should be discouraged and youth should be allowed to fully mature physically and mentally before engaging in sexual relationships with anyone really. I just don't see how a slip up should really ruin someone's entire history, image and life like that when those who chastise these role models the most for their mistakes do worse a lot of the time.

Do you agree that we often hold these role models to impossible standards of perfection, or would you be more inclined to say that these expectations of greatness & infallibility are realistic and without a doubt reasonable?

MzGrahamBitches

I see my comment made you feel some type of way Young.

Considering his background and the business he is in, THIS particular type of blemish is huge. He's Elmo for god's sake, he can't afford to make THAT mistake.

Generally I kinda agree with you though, nobody is perfect.

RodrigueZz

He allegedly engaged in a sexual relationship with this boy at the age of 45 - he was already successful at this point and an icon in the public eye. If true his actions should be punished and his behavior should be publicly acknowledged as socially unacceptable and even morally incorrect.

But it does not erase the 45 years of life prior to that. It doesn't take away from him chasing his dreams, perfecting his craft and living 45 years without such a slip up. Regardless of whether he had sex with plants, parrots or teenage boys it doesn't change the fact that this man created a character that could be loved by 3 generations of people.

It reminds me a lot of the Tiger Woods thing. Promiscuity and infidelity can be damaging to a community and negatively affect the lives of many. The repercussions against Tiger seemed over the top though. The man gets assaulted by his wife with a golf club (which to my knowledge she did not get charged or punished for), loses countless sponsors, gets forced to give up half his wealth, he is ostracized by various media, and more. It's like his previous streak of being a role model is irrelevant because he made one mistake (well technically more than one, i think it was 17 women) and now he will forever be considered scum and a fuck up for it.

I've heard that MLK has a criminal record that can not be made public for whatever reason, and some people, usually white, try to use this as a way to say he wasn't someone worth looking up to or being inspired by. It's similar to those who try to discredit Malcolm X for allegedly having sex with a dude. It is irrelevant to the reasons why these people are heralded as motivators and sources of inspiration.

I don't look up to people for being robots and never making mistakes - I look up to people for being able to overcome adversity and making a difference in the world. Impact > never doing anything wrong.

If i wanted a perfect role model I'd worship Jesus. Mortals will be mortals, though.

.IRS.

No matter what it is, because it is some kind of fucked up, as long as people understand yes you can have role models, but you are not suppose to model their role. It is good to strive to be better by learning the good things they do, but it is not as good to do also the bad things they do. Take what you need(meaning all the good stuff) and leave the rest(the shit).

MzGrahamBitches

What you're saying makes sense technically, but you're not factoring in human nature.

It's human nature for most to be turned off by the thought of a man that has the trust of millions of children being sexually inappropriate with a child. Regardless of how much great he's done, that one mistake can override all that in most people's minds.

.IRS.

Totally agree Kat, I was just leaving out all that pedo shit cuz RodrigueZ kind of implied that's not really what the topic is about. People who do shit like that should be punished heavily.

RodrigueZz

I can acknowledge and take into mind that making pariahs out of heroes because they make mistakes is human nature, but i don't think that makes it any better.

I never took into account the fact that he is someone whose work was most present in the lives of kids though. That definitely does make these allegations look worse.

I just wonder, with all the skeletons in everyone's closet, if we were to know about all of them would any human being ever be deemed worthy of admiration? Could any person really live up to such expectations if their entire lives were made public knowledge?

Going off the gut, i would say no.

Matt-

shit like this is why you should never put too much emotional investment into anyone.

MzGrahamBitches

.IRS. wrote: »

Totally agree Kat, I was just leaving out all that pedo shit cuz RodrigueZ kind of implied that's not really what the topic is about. People who do shit like that should be punished heavily.

Yeah same here regarding your post.

If this were about MOST indiscretions I'd be inclined to agree, but there are certain offenses that aren't going to slide regardless of how much good you've done.

.IRS.

We're humans, we nail people to the cross, it's our thing!

MzGrahamBitches

RodrigueZz wrote: »

I just wonder though, with all the skeletons in everyone's closet, if we were to know about all of them would any human being ever be deemed worthy of admiration? Could any person really live up to such expectations if their entire lives were made public knowledge?
.

Absolutely not, which is one of the reasons I haven't been successfully shamed off this board.

We all have our skeletons, and not only that, we all hold the skeletons to a different measure of offense.

What I may find to be reprehensible, the next person might take no issue with at all.

That's why I'm a big believer in just living your life the way YOU see fit, cause everybody has a secret or two..or three.

Matt-

.IRS. wrote: »

We're humans, we nail people to the cross, it's our thing!

nah, that's just the jews

Ajackson17

Matt- wrote: »

.IRS. wrote: »

We're humans, we nail people to the cross, it's our thing!

nah, that's just the jews

It was the romans who done that.

Ajackson17

MzGrahamBitches wrote: »

RodrigueZz wrote: »

I just wonder though, with all the skeletons in everyone's closet, if we were to know about all of them would any human being ever be deemed worthy of admiration? Could any person really live up to such expectations if their entire lives were made public knowledge?
.

Absolutely not, which is one of the reasons I haven't been successfully shamed off this board.

We all have our skeletons, and not only that, we all hold the skeletons to a different measure of offense.

What I may find to be reprehensible, the next person might take no issue with at all.

That's why I'm a big believer in just living your life the way YOU see fit, cause everybody has a secret or two..or three.

Sin is a sin no matter how big or small.

RodrigueZz

Ajackson17 wrote: »

MzGrahamBitches wrote: »

RodrigueZz wrote: »

I just wonder though, with all the skeletons in everyone's closet, if we were to know about all of them would any human being ever be deemed worthy of admiration? Could any person really live up to such expectations if their entire lives were made public knowledge?
.

Absolutely not, which is one of the reasons I haven't been successfully shamed off this board.

We all have our skeletons, and not only that, we all hold the skeletons to a different measure of offense.

What I may find to be reprehensible, the next person might take no issue with at all.

That's why I'm a big believer in just living your life the way YOU see fit, cause everybody has a secret or two..or three.

Sin is a sin no matter how big or small.

Not all sins are created equal.

I would never weigh murder and adultery on the same scale.

Matt-

Ajackson17 wrote: »

Matt- wrote: »

.IRS. wrote: »

We're humans, we nail people to the cross, it's our thing!

nah, that's just the jews

It was the romans who done that.

well when in rome....

MzGrahamBitches

That sounds real pretty and I do agree, but let's not act like most people TRULY ahere to that rule when forming their opinions of people.

RodrigueZz

MzGrahamBitches wrote: »

That sounds real pretty and I do agree, but let's not act like most people TRULY ahere to that rule when forming their opinions of people.

It sounds pretty?

MzGrahamBitches

lol..you know what I mean.

.IRS.

RodrigueZz wrote: »

Not all sins are created equal.

I would never weigh murder and adultery on the same scale.

Error is error, its not sometimes error, if it's an error, its always an error. The severity of the error however is all together different.

.IRS.

-Hey look at that!!

--What!?

-That big grey area over there!

Du_Du

that's because people hold everyone else accountable for their own situations except for themselves...

role models have to be perfect because if they're not everything that's wrong in my life is because they fucked up...

that's the mentality...and the shit's sickening...


everybody leads their own life.. it's cool to look at others for inspiration in all that, but you still have the responsibility to make sure you do what best suits you......

their path worked for them... your path is dictated soley by your actions... not your role models....

blackrain

In terms of should it affect their image, it depends on what they're known for. For example if you're a person who works with kids and you really do molest a child yeah your reputation is deservedly fucked I don't care if you saved a bus full of old women from a burning accident on their way to play Bingo. You're the lowest piece of life to ever be conceived...now if what you get in trouble for has nothing at all to do with what you're known for it's case by case...certain shit should just never be forgotten or forgiven but others yeah some people hold on to the shit for way too long.

Entertainers are held to too high of a standard though. People think it's ok now to emulate and try to literally live the same lives as celebrities and willing to go broke and ruin their lives to do it. Hell I remember a thread on the IC before about somebody actually thinking about starting a bank account solely to save money to buy some red bottom heels...shit was amazing she actually thought that was a good idea (i can't remember the poster but I don't think they post anymore). People are going through hell and high water to try and live a life they think they want so when their favorite entertainer fucks up, it almost feels like their dream/image of what the perfect life is gets shattered and they then take it out on that celebrity.

Amotekun

If parents arent the first role models for their children then they are the ones fuckin up off jump street.

This is 3 generations at least that have let their children be raised by the television derive their moral barometer and such from it and three generations have been fuckin up ever since then.

Fuck Kevin Clash, Im not quick to call anyone a role model because of this type of thing, people have a public face and a private one and if that private one is some off kilter shit then you look like a dumbass for co signing their life as being model worthy.

RodrigueZz

It's funny though cause parents make dumb mistakes all the time too
so if we were to judge them by these same standards we judge people who are idolized in the public eye
i dont even think they would make the cut