Freedom or stability?

LUClENLUClEN Sociologist. Logician. Champion LovaBabylon Posts: 17,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
Inspired by the recent discussion of introducing new firearm legislation in the United States following the Connecticut school shooting.

Some people think the way to resolve these problems is to increase government involvement. Add more legislation, put more effort into regulating the people. What this ultimately leads to is less freedom. Do you think the ends justifies the means?

Another example: myself and several other posters on this forum think that the government should be more involved in parenting so that youth can be ensured good lives and their minds can develop properly. This would mean people would not be allowed to raise their kids whichever way they want.

I personally do not even think everyone should be allowed to reproduce. There should be some sort of government run/organized citizen review that has to take place before someone can be deemed fit or unfit for parenting/reproduction. Of course this too would mean less freedom, more rules, and more rights being taken away.


Do you think that increasing government involvement is the proper way to deal with these issues?
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Replies

  • jonojono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Posts: 19,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You know what? Your absolutely right. Let's dissolve the government...FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    02.jpg
    LUClEN
  • LUClENLUClEN Sociologist. Logician. Champion Lova Babylon Posts: 17,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stopitfive wrote: »
    Freedom... Government sanctioned stability is an illusion...

    care to elaborate?

    China has government involvement coming out the wazoo and the country has proven to be quite stable, at least from an economic perspective.
  • Jameson_Porcupine Jameson_Porcupine Vox Populi Posts: 19,297 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are two sides to China. It all looks sweet on the coast, but them rice farmers inland still makin a dollar a day. Wait till them muffuckas get wind that they're actually poor, theres gonna be some shit behind that.
    Rock_WellMeta_Conscious
  • LUClENLUClEN Sociologist. Logician. Champion Lova Babylon Posts: 17,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2012
    You can't get it both ways. People want less shootings, less violence, less drugs. This all means more government, more laws, and less freedom.

    So which one do you want. Pick your poison.
    Rozetta5tone
  • Rozetta5toneRozetta5tone Holograms & Blueprints Posts: 3,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RodrigueZz wrote: »
    You can't get it both ways. People want less shootings, less violence, less drugs. This all means more government, more laws, and less freedom.

    So which one do you want. Pick your poison.
    Exactly.. Personally, I don't mind government doing what's necessary to ensure the quality of life for it's citizens are held to a high standard.. Hell, it's their job to lead.. Thats why elections are held in the first place.
  • Gold_CertificateGold_Certificate Posts: 13,332 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Depends on what you mean by "freedom".
  • usmarin3usmarin3 Posts: 35,631 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just get rid of assault riffles, why does anyone need a 50 cal, AR15,etc.
    Rozetta5toneDavis eyebrow
  • LUClENLUClEN Sociologist. Logician. Champion Lova Babylon Posts: 17,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2012
    Depends on what you mean by "freedom".

    The ability to act without fear of government sanctions; being able to live how one chooses; little to no restriction on one's behavior.
  • blakfyahkingblakfyahking The IC's Resident Father Figure Posts: 14,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    usmarin3 wrote: »
    Just get rid of assault riffles, why does anyone need a 50 cal, AR15,etc.

    someone please define "assault" rifle............
    Meta_Conscious
  • BiblicalAtheist BiblicalAtheist Prude OutskirtsPosts: 11,530 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RodrigueZz wrote: »

    The ability to act without fear of government sanctions; being able to live how one chooses; little to no restriction on one's behavior.
    If the people do not govern themselves, they will be governed. It will not matter what the people want, the less control people exhibit within themselves, the more control will be exerted on them. It's a long line of decline, imo we're a point of no return, things are only going to get worse until something breaks.
    Rozetta5tone
  • Gold_CertificateGold_Certificate Posts: 13,332 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RodrigueZz wrote: »
    Depends on what you mean by "freedom".

    The ability to act without fear of government sanctions; being able to live how one chooses; little to no restriction on one's behavior.
    So I can kill attractive females without repercussions?
  • jonojono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Posts: 19,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "Freedom" is one of those buzzwords that is chucked around a lot and doesn't mean a damn thing. Its just a word that makes people FEEL like either they have it great or things can always be better. In reality, everybody wants government, life without it wouldn't be a life worth living.


    People of The Enlightenment already concerned themselves with this question and they chose stability and then created a Government. What that Government does should be dictated by the People, it'll definitely effect someone but that's just how it is.
  • usmarin3usmarin3 Posts: 35,631 ✭✭✭✭✭
    usmarin3 wrote: »
    Just get rid of assault riffles, why does anyone need a 50 cal, AR15,etc.

    someone please define "assault" rifle............

    A weapon that requires cartridges or semiautomatic/automatic. Why the fuck does anyone need a automatic weapon, what war is any American gonna fight that they need to disperse that many rounds.
  • usmarin3usmarin3 Posts: 35,631 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All these mass killings have been a result of assault weapons.
  • LUClENLUClEN Sociologist. Logician. Champion Lova Babylon Posts: 17,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .IRS. wrote: »
    RodrigueZz wrote: »

    The ability to act without fear of government sanctions; being able to live how one chooses; little to no restriction on one's behavior.
    If the people do not govern themselves, they will be governed. It will not matter what the people want, the less control people exhibit within themselves, the more control will be exerted on them. It's a long line of decline, imo we're a point of no return, things are only going to get worse until something breaks.

    So i take it you are in favor of more government involvement?

    Idunno why but i always thought you were more of a libertarian kinda person
  • jonojono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Posts: 19,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
    usmarin3 wrote: »
    All these mass killings have been a result of assault weapons.

    I agree with your premise but I don't think assault weapons have been the cause of all the carnage.
  • LUClENLUClEN Sociologist. Logician. Champion Lova Babylon Posts: 17,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RodrigueZz wrote: »
    Depends on what you mean by "freedom".

    The ability to act without fear of government sanctions; being able to live how one chooses; little to no restriction on one's behavior.
    So I can kill attractive females without repercussions?

    Is that how much freedom you think you should be granted?
  • LUClENLUClEN Sociologist. Logician. Champion Lova Babylon Posts: 17,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jono wrote: »
    "Freedom" is one of those buzzwords that is chucked around a lot and doesn't mean a damn thing. Its just a word that makes people FEEL like either they have it great or things can always be better. In reality, everybody wants government, life without it wouldn't be a life worth living.


    People of The Enlightenment already concerned themselves with this question and they chose stability and then created a Government. What that Government does should be dictated by the People, it'll definitely effect someone but that's just how it is.

    Freedom has a meaning. It means to be free; unrestricted; exempt from outside coercion etc.
  • High RevolutionaryHigh Revolutionary Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Government is like one of those old things where people feel like because it has always been there is no way people could survive without it.
  • jonojono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Posts: 19,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RodrigueZz wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    "Freedom" is one of those buzzwords that is chucked around a lot and doesn't mean a damn thing. Its just a word that makes people FEEL like either they have it great or things can always be better. In reality, everybody wants government, life without it wouldn't be a life worth living.


    People of The Enlightenment already concerned themselves with this question and they chose stability and then created a Government. What that Government does should be dictated by the People, it'll definitely effect someone but that's just how it is.

    Freedom has a meaning. It means to be free; unrestricted; exempt from outside coercion etc.

    That's a definition.
  • Rozetta5toneRozetta5tone Holograms & Blueprints Posts: 3,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    usmarin3 wrote: »
    usmarin3 wrote: »
    Just get rid of assault riffles, why does anyone need a 50 cal, AR15,etc.

    someone please define "assault" rifle............

    A weapon that requires cartridges or semiautomatic/automatic. Why the fuck does anyone need a automatic weapon, what war is any American gonna fight that they need to disperse that many rounds.
    take away heavy metal and watch the rise of explosives used to kill in large amounts..a killer is gonna kill with any tool at their disposal.. You can strip all forms of firearms from the masses and a killer will still kill.. Murders are born, not made..

    numbaz...80's baby
  • Rozetta5toneRozetta5tone Holograms & Blueprints Posts: 3,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    * murderers*
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