The Read-Option Taking over the NFL: Which Past QB's are on Suicide watch

S2JS2J Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
You mean to tell me Mike Vick, Vince Young, and a whoooole lotta other QBs of the past couldnt have been doin this shyt!?!?!

Speak on it.
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Replies

  • lamontbdclamontbdc Posts: 16,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mike Vick never ran the read option and if he did he wouldn't have made out of college with how fragile he is. VY might have had a better shot at it but he has accuracy issues in the NFL. CK, Wilson, and RG3 are all fast and accurate. Ain't just about running. Shit Seattle didn't even start running read options til week 10. Niners never ran it that mush til this weekend. skins been doing it full time all season. Every teams coaching staff isn't up on it. And you still gotta be able to makes plays from the pocket like Wilson did yesterday during the comeback. It's a new age just can't go backwards, just gotta look forward to the newer crop of dudes.

    Just like the Patriots on offense are basically doing the same shit that Oregon does. But every team don't have Tom Brady/Pats coaching staff. So you just can't say hey why isn't everybody doing that. Everybody can't.

    killapFreudiantoheeb27Young Stef
  • lamontbdc wrote: »
    Mike Vick never ran the read option and if he did he wouldn't have made out of college with how fragile he is. VY might have had a better shot at it but he has accuracy issues in the NFL. CK, Wilson, and RG3 are all fast and accurate. Ain't just about running. Shit Seattle didn't even start running read options til week 10. Niners never ran it that mush til this weekend. skins been doing it full time all season. Every teams coaching staff isn't up on it. And you still gotta be able to makes plays from the pocket like Wilson did yesterday during the comeback. It's a new age just can't go backwards, just gotta look forward to the newer crop of dudes.

    Just like the Patriots on offense are basically doing the same shit that Oregon does. But every team don't have Tom Brady/Pats coaching staff. So you just can't say hey why isn't everybody doing that. Everybody can't.

    This right here.......Vick and Young was not accurate passers these new QB can throw and run
    Rubato GarciaYoung Stef
  • Matt-Matt- Posts: 21,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i think if you have good straight line speed as a qb it can work. you gotta have burst nh
  • S2JS2J Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lamontbdc wrote: »
    Mike Vick never ran the read option and if he did he wouldn't have made out of college with how fragile he is. VY might have had a better shot at it but he has accuracy issues in the NFL. CK, Wilson, and RG3 are all fast and accurate. Ain't just about running. Shit Seattle didn't even start running read options til week 10. Niners never ran it that mush til this weekend. skins been doing it full time all season. Every teams coaching staff isn't up on it. And you still gotta be able to makes plays from the pocket like Wilson did yesterday during the comeback. It's a new age just can't go backwards, just gotta look forward to the newer crop of dudes.

    Just like the Patriots on offense are basically doing the same shit that Oregon does. But every team don't have Tom Brady/Pats coaching staff. So you just can't say hey why isn't everybody doing that. Everybody can't.

    I disagree. The read-option in itself works b/c the DE is confused and slowed down. Thats before anything, before you even get to the quality of QB. It takes teams out of playing man b/c the QB is unaccounted for. Again, this is before you even get ot quality of QB. It makes the TEAM better because even when your RB is runing, the defesnse is reacting slower. All these things make the teams better, hence making the QBs look better.

    The QB's "accuracy" is not what sets them apart-Kaepernick had a historical game, but was 17/31, just above 50%

    my point is it's the offense that is making the difference- in additon to them being good QB's.

    And many 'good' mobile QBs of the past could have done this given the chance.
    Young Stef
  • lamontbdclamontbdc Posts: 16,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    s2jepeka wrote: »
    lamontbdc wrote: »
    Mike Vick never ran the read option and if he did he wouldn't have made out of college with how fragile he is. VY might have had a better shot at it but he has accuracy issues in the NFL. CK, Wilson, and RG3 are all fast and accurate. Ain't just about running. Shit Seattle didn't even start running read options til week 10. Niners never ran it that mush til this weekend. skins been doing it full time all season. Every teams coaching staff isn't up on it. And you still gotta be able to makes plays from the pocket like Wilson did yesterday during the comeback. It's a new age just can't go backwards, just gotta look forward to the newer crop of dudes.

    Just like the Patriots on offense are basically doing the same shit that Oregon does. But every team don't have Tom Brady/Pats coaching staff. So you just can't say hey why isn't everybody doing that. Everybody can't.

    I disagree. The read-option in itself works b/c the DE is confused and slowed down. Thats before anything, before you even get to the quality of QB. It takes teams out of playing man b/c the QB is unaccounted for. Again, this is before you even get ot quality of QB. It makes the TEAM better because even when your RB is runing, the defesnse is reacting slower. All these things make the teams better, hence making the QBs look better.

    The QB's "accuracy" is not what sets them apart-Kaepernick had a historical game, but was 17/31, just above 50%

    my point is it's the offense that is making the difference- in additon to them being good QB's.

    And many 'good' mobile QBs of the past could have done this given the chance.

    I can agree that some other good qb's in the past would/could have benefited from the system. I just can't say many would have due to poor accuracy & lack of ability to read defenses. In the NFL it works b/c your qb's accuracy, and ability to make plays off that read option play action. If you think you can just keep running the play without making accurate passes then you end up with Tebow throwing ducks into the dirt. Or NFL teams will adjust and shut that shit down. That's why teams in college been running the read option for years now. B/c your qb doesn't have to be as accurate. You can find 50 dudes right now in college running this system that won't be able to do it in the NFL b/c they not accurate, too small, or can't read defenses. And that's not saying they can't come in run the read option play and gain 14 yards on a run. But what about the rest of the playbook? You think this would have helped Vick in ATL when the dude admitted he didn't watch any film, and can't read defenses?

    That's why I say VY would have been better than Vick b/c of how small Vick is. Give him more rushing attempts and his career might be over by now. Look at Denard Robinson at Michigan. A beast at running the ball but he has no accuracy and is small as shit. He can't run the read option in the NFL. He can run it in college but not in the league. you gotta be a certain type of read option qb to make it in the NFL. But Boyd at Clemson who is bigger and stronger might be better suited.
    Young Stef
  • fortyacres&amulefortyacres&amule wubalubadubdub Posts: 12,831 Regulator
  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 48,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In before.. its impossible to have success with this style of play on the NFL level....
  • Dr. StitchDr. Stitch Posts: 731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In before.. its impossible to have success with this style of play on the NFL level....

    Who's had the most success so far then?
  • S2JS2J Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2013
    lamontbdc wrote: »
    s2jepeka wrote: »
    lamontbdc wrote: »
    Mike Vick never ran the read option and if he did he wouldn't have made out of college with how fragile he is. VY might have had a better shot at it but he has accuracy issues in the NFL. CK, Wilson, and RG3 are all fast and accurate. Ain't just about running. Shit Seattle didn't even start running read options til week 10. Niners never ran it that mush til this weekend. skins been doing it full time all season. Every teams coaching staff isn't up on it. And you still gotta be able to makes plays from the pocket like Wilson did yesterday during the comeback. It's a new age just can't go backwards, just gotta look forward to the newer crop of dudes.

    Just like the Patriots on offense are basically doing the same shit that Oregon does. But every team don't have Tom Brady/Pats coaching staff. So you just can't say hey why isn't everybody doing that. Everybody can't.

    I disagree. The read-option in itself works b/c the DE is confused and slowed down. Thats before anything, before you even get to the quality of QB. It takes teams out of playing man b/c the QB is unaccounted for. Again, this is before you even get ot quality of QB. It makes the TEAM better because even when your RB is runing, the defesnse is reacting slower. All these things make the teams better, hence making the QBs look better.

    The QB's "accuracy" is not what sets them apart-Kaepernick had a historical game, but was 17/31, just above 50%

    my point is it's the offense that is making the difference- in additon to them being good QB's.

    And many 'good' mobile QBs of the past could have done this given the chance.

    I can agree that some other good qb's in the past would/could have benefited from the system. I just can't say many would have due to poor accuracy & lack of ability to read defenses. In the NFL it works b/c your qb's accuracy, and ability to make plays off that read option play action. If you think you can just keep running the play without making accurate passes then you end up with Tebow throwing ducks into the dirt. Or NFL teams will adjust and shut that shit down. That's why teams in college been running the read option for years now. B/c your qb doesn't have to be as accurate. You can find 50 dudes right now in college running this system that won't be able to do it in the NFL b/c they not accurate, too small, or can't read defenses. And that's not saying they can't come in run the read option play and gain 14 yards on a run. But what about the rest of the playbook? You think this would have helped Vick in ATL when the dude admitted he didn't watch any film, and can't read defenses?

    That's why I say VY would have been better than Vick b/c of how small Vick is. Give him more rushing attempts and his career might be over by now. Look at Denard Robinson at Michigan. A beast at running the ball but he has no accuracy and is small as shit. He can't run the read option in the NFL. He can run it in college but not in the league. you gotta be a certain type of read option qb to make it in the NFL. But Boyd at Clemson who is bigger and stronger might be better suited.

    I mean...i see what you sayin, but wouldnt that be a lil too coincidental to think that all 4 of the guys (Kap, RG3, Wilson, Newton) using the system are all abnormally sucessful in their first year as starters!?!?

    Denard Robinson? Cmon bruh Lol We talkin real, actual QB prospects. Funny you mention Tajh Boyd b/c he's from Hampton just like Tyrod Taylor. Taylor gets drafted in the 6th rd, while Boyd may go in the 2nd or 3rd. You cant tell me Boyd is that much better if at all.

    ...You even have Johnny Manziel being projected a future top 10 pick! Years before he's a 3rd, 4th round pick at best.

  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 48,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dr. Stitch wrote: »
    In before.. its impossible to have success with this style of play on the NFL level....

    Who's had the most success so far then?

    What..??

    well as you can see there are 3 elite talent young qb's who are having success with it.. it doesn't matter who has more.. but accounting for the full athletic package isn't a fad or a gimmick its finally been given the platform.. after being lampooned by "traditionalist"
  • S2JS2J Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lol @ Jake Locker out the league in 3 years b/c no one thinks to put him in this offense.
    BlackAX410
  • woah316woah316 Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Honestly, I like Kaepernick out of all these QBs.. and that hurts me to say as a big RG3 fan...


    RG3 is probably the fastest of them all, but is too conservative at times.. and when he does run, gets hurt.. doesn't know how to get down / evade...


    Russel Wilson isn't as fast as the other 2... and doesn't run enough sometimes...


    Kaepernick doesn't hesitate... He put's his head down like a fuckin bull and just takes off... He doesn't give a fuck... He takes advantage of EVERY running opportunity, like a running QB like this SHOULD do... otherwise you're not a true duel threat if you don't take off ALL the time..


    Kaep see's space, he's GONE... no hesitation... and can get down and not get hurt...


    It's no surprise to me he had one of the best games by a QB ever.... what I would wonder, is why these qb's dont have these games more often... if you're a TRUE duel threat, why aren't you more effective than a Tom brady? He can't run, you can run AND throw right? You should blow Brady out of the water offensively....


    Kaep is the first one I've seen truly do this and live up to that full potential.
    Jeremyiahest83Got Em ShookYoung Stef
  • S2JS2J Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ^^^ And thats where the coachin comes into play. B/c of coaches and the media, Mike vick had voices in his head tellin him 'dont run, you're a QB, you have to prove you can stay in the pocket'


    ericb4prezGot Em Shook
  • ragerage Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These three niggas (hopefully RG3 can get back to form) are the future QBs of the NFL...pocket passer accurate with running back speed. All three of them are better than Vick, and Young already...this is why the Read-Option will be so successful.
    BeleeDatPleighboy
  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 48,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    s2jepeka wrote: »
    ^^^ And thats where the coachin comes into play. B/c of coaches and the media, Mike vick had voices in his head tellin him 'dont run, you're a QB, you have to prove you can stay in the pocket'


    Cosign.. he conformed.. and having the turnstyle of coaches in OC and head coaches in Atlanta didnt help. Andy Reid did help hone his skills though.. but at the same time put a leash on him... no pun intended..
    ShadyWorldOrder
  • aneed123aneed123 Posts: 14,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Charlie Ward woulda been what Wilson is now had he got the chance.... A lot of qbs would have had a chance to be successful but never got the opportunity.... Vince Young wasnt the most accurate but in TN he improved the running game cuz the de had to respect him running and he won games.... Kordell woulda been more explosive instead he was obsessed with being a prototypical qb.... slash running San Fran or Seattles offense woulda bee great to see.
  • S2JS2J Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2013
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Charlie Ward woulda been what Wilson is now had he got the chance.... A lot of qbs would have had a chance to be successful but never got the opportunity.... Vince Young wasnt the most accurate but in TN he improved the running game cuz the de had to respect him running and he won games.... Kordell woulda been more explosive instead he was obsessed with being a prototypical qb.... slash running San Fran or Seattles offense woulda bee great to see.

    Exactly my point. They had to overcome that stigma.

    And yes, Charlie Ward immediately comes to mind. If he could somehow manage to turn the basicest of basic bball skill into a 10 year NBA career, he coulda ran the read option
  • aneed123aneed123 Posts: 14,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2013
    s2jepeka wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Charlie Ward woulda been what Wilson is now had he got the chance.... A lot of qbs would have had a chance to be successful but never got the opportunity.... Vince Young wasnt the most accurate but in TN he improved the running game cuz the de had to respect him running and he won games.... Kordell woulda been more explosive instead he was obsessed with being a prototypical qb.... slash running San Fran or Seattles offense woulda bee great to see.

    Exactly my point. They had to overcome that stigma.

    And yes, Charlie Ward immediately comes to mind. If he could somehow manage to turn the basicest of basic bball skill into a 10 year NBA career, he coulda ran the read option
    s2jepeka wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Charlie Ward woulda been what Wilson is now had he got the chance.... A lot of qbs would have had a chance to be successful but never got the opportunity.... Vince Young wasnt the most accurate but in TN he improved the running game cuz the de had to respect him running and he won games.... Kordell woulda been more explosive instead he was obsessed with being a prototypical qb.... slash running San Fran or Seattles offense woulda bee great to see.

    Exactly my point. They had to overcome that stigma.

    And yes, Charlie Ward immediately comes to mind. If he could somehow manage to turn the basicest of basic bball skill into a 10 year NBA career, he coulda ran the read option

    yeah folk like to dismiss it.... but a lot of "mobile" past qbs were told you cant run in the NFL, We want you to be a prototypical drop back passer, if not we will change ur position (Frost/Eric Crouch/Woody Danzler) hell any Nebraska qb lol. no we will never change our offense for you u will conform to my system etc.... now with open minded coaches and success watching guys with the same skill set finally get that shot it telling.... This is why Kordell was so salty all last year when discussing Tebow
    almighty breezeblakfyahkingYoung Stef
  • The Lonious MonkThe Lonious Monk Man with No Fucks Given Posts: 15,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2013
    Uhhh Vick is pretty accurate. He's just not the brightest QB so he makes silly mistakes. You're crazy if you think he couldn't run the read offense. He might not do it as well as some of these younger QBs but he'd do a hell of a lot more with that offense than the pass happy offenses he's been in. Not to mention that the offense he ran with Dunn and Ducket that year they went to the NFC Championship wasn't that much different from the Read-Option.

    He was beasting that year.
  • blackrainblackrain Posts: 18,320 Regulator
    The thing is though, even in the past a QB that could run well and be very successful simply didn't happen that often even when they were given the chance. I mean we all love those Randall Cunningham highlights, but how many SB's did it produce? The reason teams for so long stuck with the prototypical QB idea is because that shit won. Joe Montanna is looked at as the greatest QB of all time and he won 4 rings..Steve Young, a mobile QB, is probably more physically/athletically talented than Joe ever was but look who won 4 rings and who won one....look who retired on their own terms and who was forced into it because of concussions?

    I love the idea of what RG3, Wilson and Kapernick are doing to the QB position. With defenses getting faster it only made sense eventually you'd have to have QB's who can run...but a QB who can throw his ass off will always be more valuable than a QB who can run until it's proven that a mobile QB can be a 2,3,4 time SB champ on a consistent basis w/o missing 2-3 games per year due to injury
    blakfyahkingShiveDreadzAlready Home_17
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