Reason Debates VI: Buttuh_B vs Sion. (Buttuh_b wins)

5th Letter5th Letter Posts: 25,228 Regulator
edited May 2013 in The Reason
This is the Reason Debates VI the purpose of these debates is for healthy debates and plus it's something fun to do. There will be a 500 word limit, nothing over that amount. Each debate will be 24 hours after that point the debates will be over. Each participant will get 3 try's. After the debates are over posters are allowed to vote. The rules on voting is simple, you are to vote on who made the better argument and not the side you agree with.

Debate Topic- Is it a fair statement to say that southern fans support wack rappers?

Yes- Sion.
No- Buttuh_B
SionValentinez A. KaiserTrashboat
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Replies

  • _Menace__Menace_ The Don West.Side.CaliforniaPosts: 23,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guess I've got some homework to do before I start this...never listened to this album before

    you better like it or this shit is meaningless lol.
    I was supposed to say World Domination wasnt a classic and I think its a classic
  • buttuh_bbuttuh_b Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    _Menace_ wrote: »
    Guess I've got some homework to do before I start this...never listened to this album before

    you better like it or this shit is meaningless lol.
    I was supposed to say World Domination wasnt a classic and I think its a classic

    That's the point of it fool. You are supposed to be able to argue both sides regardless of your personal opinion.
    Trashboat
  • King Lee King Lee Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    Guess I've got some homework to do before I start this...never listened to this album before

    Same here yo Ima need 24-36 hrs to get my shit together
  • Billy_PonchoBilly_Poncho Gary Oak of the IC Posts: 14,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    I'ma show 'em who the boss, when you niggaz gonna learn
    When you cross in this game, then yo ass will get burned
    Wait my turn? or my time? rock a what, for a dime
    Takin' fed chance after chance, but I got to dance
    To the rules of this shit, that's why I keep a revolver
    How the hell you robbers, gonna rob the robbers?

    Feelin biased as hell right now...
  • CoolJoeCoolJoe Posts: 5,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Two people that haven't heard the album are about to argue on whether said album is a classic, trill.
    SWAMPGOD
  • buttuh_bbuttuh_b Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Haha. Word they supposed to listen to it one time and put together an action packed argument.
  • DMTxTHCDMTxTHC Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    buttuh_b wrote: »
    WOAT debate.
    Word.. this is the most anticlimactic debate ever..
  • Nah SonNah Son Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aight so far this is like watchin a pick up game without a ball
    BetathemadlionsfanValentinez A. Kaiser
  • buttuh_bbuttuh_b Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
  • buttuh_bbuttuh_b Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aww shit yall replacing Hip Hop Is Alive with Sion?!?! Dammit. Shit just got real.
    Sionrip.dilla[Deleted User]
  • themadlionsfanthemadlionsfan Posts: 7,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    buttuh_b wrote: »
    It is not a fair statement to say that southern fans support wack rappers. First of all, what is wack to one may not be wack to another, it’s a subjective term when concerning art. But if we are to assume that a rapper can be concretely classified as wack, the statement can apply to fans from every region of the world and it would be completely disrespectful to single the south out.



    As a New Jersey native myself, I appreciate precise lyricism over gritty production as much as anyone. With that being said, the southern United States has produced some of the most versatile acts of any genre of music over the past 25 years. Everyone has their own story and each state, city and even neighborhood has their own unique sound. From Scarface to Juvenile to Jeezy to Big K.R.I.T, the south has always made music that you can feel. While the east is more densely populated and the Midwest experiences freezing climates, the spacious free-spirited slower-paced lifestyle of the south is reflected in their music. They have given fans all they could ask for and more from the pain and sorrow of a Z-Ro record to the deeply rooted social commentary of Goodie Mob. From the “get it by any means necessary” attitude of T.I.P to the do-it-the-right-way success story of J. Cole. From the hard on hoes message of the likes of Three 6 and Ball & J to the “don’t give a fuck” trunk rattlers of Gucci Mane… How is the first thing that comes to mind “wack” when you think of southern fans? They have everything you could ask for.

    From a production standpoint, southern artists defied convention and in turn transcended the genre. The 808 drums you hear on any and every record that add to a more crisp listening experience originated from the south all the way back to Uncle Luke and 2 Live Crew’s Miami Bass movement. Not only can these patterns add value to a hard-hitting club escapade, which any heterosexual male should be grateful for, but also it can strengthen even the smoothest of records when used properly. Lyrically, the south hasn’t been known for the most intricate rhyme schemes although Jay Electronica may have something to say about that. But they have always conveyed words in a creative and accessible manner that evokes a range of emotions in the listener.

    Now why would you blame “wack” rap on southerners? Sure there may be a noticeable amount of below average rappers in the south, but they’re only noticed because there’s so many southern rappers out period. It can be argued that as a percentage and in totality, New York is in a way worse place right now. If it’s the south that supports wack rappers, why does New York radio play a majority southern playlist every day? Where is this good music the 12 million people of NYC support daily relative to the 5 million in metro Atlanta?

    In the immortal words of the south’s “wackest” rapper Andre 3000, “The south got something to say!”

    this man came strong with an arguement....shit made me forget about alot of the wackness in the South and just focus on the good....

    @sion .....where art thou?
  • SionSion Moderator, AHH Content Producer, AHH Editor Posts: 19,806 Regulator
    edited May 2013
    Buttuh my nigga I hate it had to be him :( !!!!!


    It's fair to say they support "wack" rappers but that's not really a bad thing, the south understood what it meant to support their local talent & the significance it had on the whole region. Why do you think the south was able to dominate the game for so long ? B/c they supported their artists - shit even the dope rappers supported/showed love to wack rappers that's why they dominated for so long. They don't do that in NY which is why NY fell off & at one point were trying to sound like the south.

    houstonCover.png

    The south understood playing as a team & it's something that it's people seem to understand as well.

    Southern artists like Master P, Waka, Future they're terrible artists & we know this but were not looking to be amused lyrically. Most ppl just want to have fun & want something catchy to vibe to. You had your guys like Scarface & Outkast but not everybody is into that. What made the support for the aforementioned so great was their personalities not their music. We KNOW Master P was garbage but he represented struggle & success that people wanted to relate to so they supported him. P may be a wack rapper but he's still a very intelligent & prominent ambassador of the south and his contributions went a long way (he was able to get Silk & others platinum plaques in the process).

    Southern fans supporting wack rappers may have tainted hip-hop for some time but whether it was good for the game or not is a matter of opinion. They support those rappers not b/c they think it's "wack" but b/c those artists represent an aspect of southern culture that a group of people fuck with. There's a mentality that if they're winning they can give others an opportunity too. If it just so happens to be Mike Jones, Gucci Mane, Waka, Shop Boys, or Lil Wayne then that's just who it is *shrugs*.


    Houston2.jpg

    There's artists on there that were beefing with each other at the time of that photo. They knew how important it was tho to support each other and put the beef aside. The South has had one of the longest & most lucrative reigns in Hip-Hop due to this support.

    Southern fanbases do support what is perceived as "wack rappers" but what's wack to one may be GOAT to another. I think what someone represents & how another can relate to it transcends wackness.
    BodhiValentinez A. Kaiser
  • buttuh_bbuttuh_b Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    freekeybook.jpg

    You make valid points about New York artists not supporting each other and southern rappers having more unity but I don’t think that has too much bearing on fan support.

    We have no statistical evidence that tells us exactly where geographically record sales are coming from but I think it’s fair to make assumptions. So let’s talk about some wack rappers you mentioned.

    Soulja Boy (we can agree he’s wack): Last album – The DeAndre Way fueled by the hit single “Pretty Boy Swag”. First week sales = 13,360. Doesn’t sound like a whole lot of support to me. Shop Boyz dropped only one album and that was 2007. I believe this is where people get confused. Just because a rapper or rap group has a one hit wonder and happens to be from the south doesn’t mean the success should be attributed to the fans of the region they come from. These are national or global hits that the market demanded. By large, it’s more of a casual fan thing. Because I can guarantee you true fans of southern music don’t listen to that shit. That’s why they have no staying power. Sion, you live in Canada and I live on the west coast. How influential were some fans from rural Mississippi or Alabama in getting Clear Channel to shove DJ Unk and the Swag Surfin cats down our throats? Programmers dictate what is consumed in the short-term way moreso than local fans.

    mims.jpg


    The same point can be made to a lesser extent with the other artists you named in Lil’ Wayne, Waka, Gucci, Master P and Future but I’ll give those to you. They are truly supported in the south. I still think all those artists have been pretty big outside their region. Wayne wasn’t going platinum off Lights Out. He actually didn’t see true commercial success until he abandoned his southern influence and started watering down his product.

    But what really makes these artists “wack” anyway? Maybe they don’t have the technical abilities in the traditional sense of the word but they bring an important dimension to the art that is necessary to maintain a balance. That’s not wack to me. Even if they aren’t the best wordsmiths, the fact that they make music that can be enjoyable in multiple settings prevents their music from being wack. It’s ok to have fun. The ability to coin catchy phrases that embody a generation is a talent in itself. Fans from all regions fall in love with the infectious melodies of Future when he lays his heart on the track without trained vocal ability because he displays a relatable vulnerability. Might not be everybody’s cup of tea but it extends beyond the south.

    I would also like to add that production choices of a rapper play an integral role in their artistry. Without southern fans, there is no “Bitch, Don’t Kill My Vibe” with the sped up hi-hats, along with all the other improved modern production of today.
    SWAMPGODValentinez A. Kaiser
  • hoodsaviorhoodsavior Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • StewStew Cowboys did die.....HAHAHAHAHA Posts: 32,418 Regulator
    Sigh....I remember when I used to murk niggas in these joints.
  • SionSion Moderator, AHH Content Producer, AHH Editor Posts: 19,806 Regulator
    We not talking about fan bases outside the south we talkin about THE South supporting their artists. It don't matter where the sales are really coming from - you stifled yourself with that rebuttal. There's too many artists who came out & were wack but still managed to do very well. It isn't a proper gauge of support. Wack rappers were still getting it in.

    The problem with southern fans supporting wack rappers was that it was watering down the music, there was a period when everyone was trying to craft dance or ringtone songs. That's part of WHY NY was shitting on the south or saying Hip-Hop was dead. It wasn't even guys like Little Brother, Scarface or Outkast that were all over the airwaves it was the Lil Jons, Flips, Shop Boys, Ying Yang Twins, Mike Jones, Trinidad James lesser knowns etc. who were RUNNING the game & showed the importance of having a fanbase. The outflow & success of those artists led people to argue that the south wasn't a place renowned for lyricism or that southern fans who supported wack rappers were "ignorant" (NY was being elitists when they said that imo). They may have been wack but it was other characteristics people admired that made people gravitate to them & support it. As wack as Master P or Mike a Jones are, they were MEGA stars in the south FIRST before they made it anywhere else. The support the fans gave to these artists is why labels from NY or LA came to the south looking for opportunity and they were able to have the crown for so long.

    And lastly, we've done this before with the programmers vs. fans shit, by and large tho, that point is irrelevant. The question at hand is whether southern fans support wack rappers I'm saying they do and you agreed with me they do. It doesn't matter if you're a casual fan or a die hard fan, support is support. So what else is there to really say ?
    KellmillValentinez A. Kaiser
  • _Menace__Menace_ The Don West.Side.CaliforniaPosts: 23,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sigh....I remember when I used to murk niggas in these joints.

    checked my debate? shit was easy af. Had to say ICE CREAM Man wasnt a classic lol you'd be proud. I know you're mad its sitting in the vault.
    Stew
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