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  • Mister B.Mister B. Still the Devil's #1 Advocate. Come on out that box! Posts: 14,185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyonw watching this town hall? Bernie talking that shit. Bernie probably has the best ideas of everyone, but no fucking way would any of his policies pass.
    alliknowishate
  • TheGOATTheGOAT The ReasonPosts: 10,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mister B. wrote: »
    Anyonw watching this town hall? Bernie talking that shit. Bernie probably has the best ideas of everyone, but no fucking way would any of his policies pass.

    I missed bernie but saw o' Malley

    Glad we got some black folks reppin for des moines askin questions.

    People probably watchin at home shocked to see black folks in Des Moines
  • Joker_De_La_LoverJoker_De_La_Lover PISTOL GRIP PUMP IN MY LAP AT ALL TIMES Working On My LowriderPosts: 40,214 Regulator
    I absolutely have not been following at all since November. Shit is getting redundant. I honestly don't give a shit who wins cause nothing is going to change at all.
    damobb2deepmanofmorehouseNeophyte Wolfgang
  • white sympathizerwhite sympathizer Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭✭
    This election is lame, trumps going to win because he says what white people wish they could say with impunity.
    Mister B.R.D.fortyacresmanofmorehousetupacfan12
  • S2JS2J Posts: 28,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    Ahem...
    I adore Bernie Sanders.

    I agree with his message of fairness and I share his outrage over inequality and corporate abuses. I think his righteous populism has captured the moment perfectly. I respect the uplifting campaign he has run. I admire his authenticity.

    And I am convinced Democrats would be insane to nominate him.

    Hillary Clinton, by contrast, is a dreary candidate. She has, again, failed to connect with voters. Her policy positions are cautious and uninspiring. Her reflexive secrecy causes a whiff of scandal to follow her everywhere. She seems calculating and phony.

    And yet if Democrats hope to hold the presidency in November, they’ll need to hold their noses and nominate Clinton.

    Ultimately, I expect that’s what Democrats will do — because as much as they love Sanders , they loathe Donald Trump more. It seems more evident each day that Republicans have lost their collective reason and are beginning to accept the notion that Trump will be their nominee. And I doubt Democrats will make an anti-immigrant bigot the president by nominating a socialist to run against him.

    Sanders and his supporters boast of polls showing him, on average, matching up slightly better against Trump than Clinton does. But those matchups are misleading: Opponents have been attacking and defining Clinton for a quarter- century, but nobody has really gone to work yet on demonizing Sanders.

    Watching Sanders at Monday night’s Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump — or another Republican nominee — would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.
    The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the “socialist” label and requested that Sanders define it “so that it doesn’t concern the rest of us citizens.”

    Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who don’t want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: “Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top — that’s my definition of democratic socialism.”

    But that’s not how Republicans will define socialism — and they’ll have the dictionary on their side. They’ll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. They’ll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldn’t be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists don’t win national elections in the United States .


    Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases — “one of the biggest tax hikes in history,” as moderator Chris Cuomo put it — to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that “hypothetically, you’re going to pay $5,000 more in taxes,” and declared, “W e will raise taxes, yes we will.” He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that “it’s demagogic to say, oh, you’re paying more in taxes.”

    Well, yes — and Trump is a demagogue.

    Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government “bigger than ever,” Sanders didn’t quarrel, saying, “People want to criticize me, okay,” and “Fine, if that’s the criticism, I accept it.”

    Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.

    Michael Bloomberg, the billionaire and former New York mayor who floated a trial balloon over the weekend about an independent run, knows this. As t he New York Times reported: “If Republicans were to nominate Mr. Trump or Senator Ted Cruz, a hard-line conservative, and Democrats chose Mr. Sanders, Mr. Bloomberg . . . has told allies he would be likely to run.”

    President Obama seems to know this, too — which would explain why he tiptoed beyond his official neutrality to praise Clinton in an interview with Politico’s Glenn Thrush. “I think that what Hillary presents is a recognition that translating values into governance and delivering the goods is ultimately the job of politics,” he said. He portrayed Sanders as “the bright, shiny object that people haven’t seen before.”

    It doesn’t speak well of Clinton that, next to her, a 74-year-old guy who has been in politics for four decades is a bright and shiny object. The #feelthebern phenomenon has at least as much to do with Clinton as with Sanders: Democrats are eager for an alternative to her inauthentic politics and cautious policies.


    I share their frustration with Clinton. But that doesn’t make Sanders a rational choice.
  • jonojono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Posts: 28,311 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    I'm tired of all these holier-than-thou Sanders dickriders acting like anyone who doesn't share their religious-like belief in Bernie's "political revolution" is some paid Wall Street shill.

    The same gerrymandered voting districts that have produced backwards white supremacist congressmen for 200 years are suddenly gonna be down with free college and single payer health care? Nigga Please.

    Most of them are
    CashmoneyDux(Nope)
  • (ob)Scene(ob)Scene Posts: 4,608 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    I'm tired of all these holier-than-thou Sanders dickriders acting like anyone who doesn't share their religious-like belief in Bernie's "political revolution" is some paid Wall Street shill.

    The same gerrymandered voting districts that have produced backwards white supremacist congressmen for 200 years are suddenly gonna be down with free college and single payer health care? Nigga Please.

    Most of them are

    these stans been getting out of pocket as of late tho. The reactions to Paul Krugman calling bullshit on his health care plan were absurd, he said himself it was like hatemail from Rush Limbaugh fans. Just wait until Bernie probably loses the South Carolina primary, you'll see a lot of these "anti-racist" white progressive activists let the mask slip & get in they cac bag about how black people weren't intelligent enough to recognize a old jewish senator as their savior.

    I mean... conservatives have been saying that same thing about us since we earned our right vote. People care entirely too much about his "supporters," as opposed to the man himself and his policies. Whenever I choose to vote I do so based upon what I believe to be good for myself, my family & the country in which I live. Could give a fuck about the reactions of other folks and their opinion of what is best for me.

    It's starting to remind me of the Kobe haters that were steady ragging on him throughout his career because they deemed his fans "annoying."

    Now in regards to this article... people have already been saying that stuff about Sanders since he started picking up steam. This just comes off as yet another attempt, by the establishment media, to reshape the narrative so that the general public will start feeling apprehensive about his electability and vote for Hilary against their own preferences. However, when you look at the polls we see that Bernie significantly wins against all of the republican candidates. While the polling for Hilary against Republican candidates are much closer races.
    StiffzzombieStoneColdMikeyCashmoneyDuxAfrica United
  • BobOblahBobOblah Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    Yeah I've been one of the people saying I think I would rather have Bernie than Hillary, but I'm worried that he could win the nomination but could not win the White House. And this article makes a good point, the Republican candidates, Faux News and that whole machine have put almost 0 effort into attacking Bernie so far. If he became the nominee, it's all eyes on him and I think they could scare too many people out of electing him.

    He's a 74 year old democratic socialist. Sanders supporters hate when you say he can't win the national election, but it's a risk. And the risk you're taking is making DONALD FUCKING TRUMP the leader of the free world in which case RIP everybody. Stakes is high b. Even if it's not Trump on the right, all those people are insane and I'm no big Hillary fan but we'd be better off with Hillary than Cruz or any of those clowns.
    manofmorehousematches malone
  • (ob)Scene(ob)Scene Posts: 4,608 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BobOblah wrote: »
    Yeah I've been one of the people saying I think I would rather have Bernie than Hillary, but I'm worried that he could win the nomination but could not win the White House. And this article makes a good point, the Republican candidates, Faux News and that whole machine have put almost 0 effort into attacking Bernie so far. If he became the nominee, it's all eyes on him and I think they could scare the average American out of electing him.

    He's a 74 year old democratic socialist. Sanders supporters hate when you say he can't win the national election, but it's a risk. And the risk you're taking is making DONALD FUCKING TRUMP the leader of the free world in which case RIP everybody. Stakes is high b. Even if it's not Trump on the right, all those people are insane and I'm no big Hillary fan but we'd be better off with Hillary than Cruz or any of those clowns.



    A Quinnipiac University poll last month looked at the national scene and concluded that Mr. Sanders is as formidable as Mrs. Clinton in a general election showdown. He led Mr. Trump by eight points in that poll; Mrs. Clinton led Mr. Trump by six. Mr. Sanders beat Mr. Cruz by 10 points; Mrs. Clinton beat him by five.

    “The truth of the matter is the polls are showing the more electable candidate, by far, is Sen. Bernie Sanders,” said Jeff Weaver, the Sanders campaign manager. “You can say in a TV ad whatever you want to say, but that doesn’t make it true.”

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/01/12/why-the-gop-is-more-likely-than-clinton-to-target-sanders/
    The answer, if this thesis turns out to be true, is actually simple. Presidents are elected in general elections, not in primaries and caucuses that choose the nominees. General elections are not decided by the pool of voters in the Democratic and Republican nominating campaigns, but by the broader poll of voters in the general election campaign where the winner is usually the candidate who can win the most votes from political independents and members of the other party in the decisive vote on Election Day on the first Tuesday in November.

    It is very possible Ms. Clinton could have a strong lead among registered Democrats but because her negative ratings are high and her trust ratings are low she could have difficulty winning the votes of many political independents and Republicans, compared to Mr. Sanders. It is equally possible that for the very reasons Mr. Trump holds a strong lead among Republicans he antagonizes large numbers of independents and Democrats, compared to Mr. Sanders.

    http://observer.com/2015/12/shock-poll-bernie-sanders-is-the-most-electable-candidate-in-either-party/

    zzombie
  • EmM HoLLa.EmM HoLLa. Rolex Watches & Diamond Chains.. Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hilary ran the white house for 8 years and we were prosperous.. Never mind the rhetoric.. I'm going with Hilary..
    S2JAjackson17MelqartIceBergTaylordamnkpCashmoneyDuxA Talented OneNothingButTheTruthBreezy_Kilroysideon1984PlutarchdeadeyesilverfoxxAntlerz5onblackhandsideAfrica UnitedTheRicanKingMister B.
  • (ob)Scene(ob)Scene Posts: 4,608 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    Mr.LV wrote: »
    Bernie would lose the general election it would be like John Kerry all over again

    I don't believe Hilary Clinton will inspire a lot of the Obama voters to go back to the booth. Also, based on her likability ratings it's highly unlikely that she'll be able to grab the necessary independents or cross-party voters needed to win.
    Recaptimus_Prime360manofmorehouse
  • (ob)Scene(ob)Scene Posts: 4,608 ✭✭✭✭✭
    _Lefty wrote: »
    Of the candidates left, Clinton is the safest vote. She knows the political ropes and she lives with one of the best presidents of the past 40 years. The world stage won't be too big for her, she's been doin it forever.

    Although I love bernie sanders' idealism, it's just not realistic in today's washington, all the shit he talkin will get voted down or fillabustered and pettifogged to no end. We see what happened with Obama, and he wasn't even specifically fighting for us. Bernie comin in like he just got his first black pussy, them white boys on capitol hill ain't goin for that lol.

    I'm curious what changes you believe Hilary will bring. Are you saying that not trying is better than trying?
  • EmM HoLLa.EmM HoLLa. Rolex Watches & Diamond Chains.. Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    EmM HoLLa. wrote: »
    Hilary ran the white house for 8 years and we were prosperous.. Never mind the rhetoric.. I'm going with Hilary..

    yeh.. them bank deregulations were godsend. hahaha
    before that niggas couldn't even get a house.. never mind they couldn't afford them anyway..

    and them 3 strike laws?? manna don't even get me started! lol

    3 Strikes was Clinton?.. I thought that was Bush?..


    I aint gonna sit up here and act like I know politics.. All I know is that during the time Clinton was in office.. Shit didn't feel as fucked up as it is right now..
    CashmoneyDuxAntlerzMister B.
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