Is Dak Prescott The Truth?

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Replies

  • bow to royaltybow to royalty Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    He's in the right position. Elite O line, elitie Running Back, HOF Tight End, And a Playmaker WR (except against Giants this year).

    Time will tell

    Same thing I said. A lot of QB's are out here looking for a running game, OL, or receiving targets. Let's see how he is when he isn't in the ideal situation. Could still be good. But we're going to have to wait and see

    Name a qb in a bad situation that's good?

    Didn't say a bad situation. Just one that isn't ideal. He has a top tier OL and RB, and a good group of receiving targets. How many teams would you say have a better supporting offensive cast?

    tom brady has had the best teams thru his career and it doesn't hurt his legacy

    Bruh, I don't even fuck with Brady and this isn't true at all. What receivers has Brady had? 2 years with Moss? A few seasons with Welker (who was largely a product of elite QB play)? And who were the Pats running backs? Even the O line seems like it gets shuffled around a lot.

    You're reachin hard as hell saying Brady's had the best supporting casts throughout his career.

    Have you ever wondered an argument against me....nope

    This is another W on my list. You're crazy as hell saying Brady has had the best teams throughout his career. Name some of his best WR's and RB's. Reachin hard as hell.

    @ghost! @its....JOHN B are Pats fans I think. They should know how the Pats roster has been over the years...tell them how Brady had the best supporting casts his whole career.

    I never said he had the best supporting cast wtf. I said he has had the best teams. You don't have to have the best talent in the world to win.

    Now tell me how has brady not had the best situation in football the past 15 years?

    Removing the QB and looking at the offense, plenty of teams are in as good as, or better, situations. Cowboys, Falcons, Steelers, Cardinals, Chiefs, Giants, Raiders, Bengals. A couple more could probably added as a comparable team.

    This man just threw 28 TD's and 2 INT's this season. He averaged more TD's per game, than he had total interceptions. All that with Gronk being hurt for a big part of the year. Last year he had 36 TD'S 7 INT with all his WR's being hurt and missing games, and an average running game.

    All the team's you just named aren't better than the Pats.
    You don't even know what you're talking about. How can you say that the Pats are similar to the other teams but when those teams lose dez or a Aj Green they're offensive isn't the same. Pats lose players and the still win that means brady is in a better situation. Pats gets players that fit there system

    I didn't say those teams were better or similar to the Pats. I said their offensive personnel (with the QB's removed) are as good as or better than the Pats offensive personnel.

    And in the bolded, that's just some hater logic. So if Edelman gets hurt, and Brady does worse, that would reflect well on Brady? Because you're saying if Edelman gets hurt, and Brady keeps doing well it's a knock on Brady (because you're taking credit away from him, and giving it to his system)

    The personal is better talent wise but Pats system is better overall and they have the stats to prove it.

    I'm not being a hater at all. You have these players who step in and and do good . That points to the coaching system .

    You even have a dumb ass pats fan that making my point with it being the system when they lose players.

    BB is the mastermind behind all of this and he has a winning record with out brady

    He's not making your point. You're changing your point. Now it's Brady has a better coach/system. Your original point was he has a better team. That's not the same thing.

    Yes, he did. You're the one that brought up the offenses comparison I basically said the better team. So when you bought up the offensive comparison that's when I alluded to the system and not the players.

    So yes my point still stands that Brady throughout the last 15 years has had the better team. I never brought up the individual players because like I said earlier Pat's run a good system and that's a fact

    The system aspect is an overrated cop out. BB wasn't winning before Tom. Tom hasn't played without BB. They're on their way to their 7th SB, and they've won 4...none without each other. Before Tom this was Bill's career.

    - 5 seasons in CLE, and 4 of them were losing seasons. Overall record 37-45
    - 1 season in NE with a 5-11 record (2000)...this was pre-Brady. Overall record 42-56
    - The following year the Pats start 0-2 (Bill is 5-13 in NE and has an Overall record 42-58
    - Brady becomes the starter in game 3 and the Pats go 14-3 to finish the season and win the SB.
    - Brady goes on to go 207-61, winning 77% of his games

    So my question is where was this irreplaceable "anyone can win" situation pre-Brady? When BB had 6 seasons as a coach, 5 of them were losing seasons, and he made the playoffs once, where was the system? When Bill has 64 losses and reached the playoffs once in just over 7 seasons without Brady, vs 61 losses, and reaching the playoffs 15 times in 16 seasons WITH Brady, can you back up the system claim?
    playmaker88
  • blu197blu197 Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24
    I don't never hear niggas try to slight Duncan for playing under Pop but they do it for Brady playing under Belichick.

    Belichick wasn't winning shit b4 Brady, plus he was the starting QB at Michigan so this narrative that Belichick took some untalented no name kid from junior college and turned into a great QB is crazy. Though im sure Brady has learned a lot from ALL of his coaches (not just BB) that allows him to get the most out of his abilities.
  • Olorun22Olorun22 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    He's in the right position. Elite O line, elitie Running Back, HOF Tight End, And a Playmaker WR (except against Giants this year).

    Time will tell

    Same thing I said. A lot of QB's are out here looking for a running game, OL, or receiving targets. Let's see how he is when he isn't in the ideal situation. Could still be good. But we're going to have to wait and see

    Name a qb in a bad situation that's good?

    Didn't say a bad situation. Just one that isn't ideal. He has a top tier OL and RB, and a good group of receiving targets. How many teams would you say have a better supporting offensive cast?

    tom brady has had the best teams thru his career and it doesn't hurt his legacy

    Bruh, I don't even fuck with Brady and this isn't true at all. What receivers has Brady had? 2 years with Moss? A few seasons with Welker (who was largely a product of elite QB play)? And who were the Pats running backs? Even the O line seems like it gets shuffled around a lot.

    You're reachin hard as hell saying Brady's had the best supporting casts throughout his career.

    Have you ever wondered an argument against me....nope

    This is another W on my list. You're crazy as hell saying Brady has had the best teams throughout his career. Name some of his best WR's and RB's. Reachin hard as hell.

    @ghost! @its....JOHN B are Pats fans I think. They should know how the Pats roster has been over the years...tell them how Brady had the best supporting casts his whole career.

    I never said he had the best supporting cast wtf. I said he has had the best teams. You don't have to have the best talent in the world to win.

    Now tell me how has brady not had the best situation in football the past 15 years?

    Removing the QB and looking at the offense, plenty of teams are in as good as, or better, situations. Cowboys, Falcons, Steelers, Cardinals, Chiefs, Giants, Raiders, Bengals. A couple more could probably added as a comparable team.

    This man just threw 28 TD's and 2 INT's this season. He averaged more TD's per game, than he had total interceptions. All that with Gronk being hurt for a big part of the year. Last year he had 36 TD'S 7 INT with all his WR's being hurt and missing games, and an average running game.

    All the team's you just named aren't better than the Pats.
    You don't even know what you're talking about. How can you say that the Pats are similar to the other teams but when those teams lose dez or a Aj Green they're offensive isn't the same. Pats lose players and the still win that means brady is in a better situation. Pats gets players that fit there system

    I didn't say those teams were better or similar to the Pats. I said their offensive personnel (with the QB's removed) are as good as or better than the Pats offensive personnel.

    And in the bolded, that's just some hater logic. So if Edelman gets hurt, and Brady does worse, that would reflect well on Brady? Because you're saying if Edelman gets hurt, and Brady keeps doing well it's a knock on Brady (because you're taking credit away from him, and giving it to his system)

    The personal is better talent wise but Pats system is better overall and they have the stats to prove it.

    I'm not being a hater at all. You have these players who step in and and do good . That points to the coaching system .

    You even have a dumb ass pats fan that making my point with it being the system when they lose players.

    BB is the mastermind behind all of this and he has a winning record with out brady

    He's not making your point. You're changing your point. Now it's Brady has a better coach/system. Your original point was he has a better team. That's not the same thing.

    Yes, he did. You're the one that brought up the offenses comparison I basically said the better team. So when you bought up the offensive comparison that's when I alluded to the system and not the players.

    So yes my point still stands that Brady throughout the last 15 years has had the better team. I never brought up the individual players because like I said earlier Pat's run a good system and that's a fact

    The system aspect is an overrated cop out. BB wasn't winning before Tom. Tom hasn't played without BB. They're on their way to their 7th SB, and they've won 4...none without each other. Before Tom this was Bill's career.

    - 5 seasons in CLE, and 4 of them were losing seasons. Overall record 37-45
    - 1 season in NE with a 5-11 record (2000)...this was pre-Brady. Overall record 42-56
    - The following year the Pats start 0-2 (Bill is 5-13 in NE and has an Overall record 42-58
    - Brady becomes the starter in game 3 and the Pats go 14-3 to finish the season and win the SB.
    - Brady goes on to go 207-61, winning 77% of his games

    So my question is where was this irreplaceable "anyone can win" situation pre-Brady? When BB had 6 seasons as a coach, 5 of them were losing seasons, and he made the playoffs once, where was the system? When Bill has 64 losses and reached the playoffs once in just over 7 seasons without Brady, vs 61 losses, and reaching the playoffs 15 times in 16 seasons WITH Brady, can you back up the system claim?

    You and your strawman arguments smh....Doesn't BB have a winning record while at NE without brady 13-6?? What other proof do you need? Why do you feel the need to have me answer all those question when you and I have both witness NE lose players and they still win. What does that tell you? How is that not the best situation when people on your team go down and you still win? It's coaching, you don't have to have big names to win and NE has proved that time and time again.

    You keep coming at me but you still haven't refuted my claim that Brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 years. This all started when people try to downplay Dak and his situation with the cowboys and what to give the "yea but" he has talent on his team and a offense line etc. But when you bring up brady situation it's just because brady great smh.

  • blu197blu197 Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24
    When Brady was out for a season Pats went 11-5 and missed the playoffs but were 16-0 and made the Super Bowl the year b4 with Brady throwing for 50+ TDs and breaking records that year...

    This tells you that Brady has a 5 game impact. So if you were to hypothetically remove Brady from the Pats from whatever season, subtract 5 wins off from their record, I'm sure Pats miss the playoffs 90% of the time.
    5 Grand
  • bow to royaltybow to royalty Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    He's in the right position. Elite O line, elitie Running Back, HOF Tight End, And a Playmaker WR (except against Giants this year).

    Time will tell

    Same thing I said. A lot of QB's are out here looking for a running game, OL, or receiving targets. Let's see how he is when he isn't in the ideal situation. Could still be good. But we're going to have to wait and see

    Name a qb in a bad situation that's good?

    Didn't say a bad situation. Just one that isn't ideal. He has a top tier OL and RB, and a good group of receiving targets. How many teams would you say have a better supporting offensive cast?

    tom brady has had the best teams thru his career and it doesn't hurt his legacy

    Bruh, I don't even fuck with Brady and this isn't true at all. What receivers has Brady had? 2 years with Moss? A few seasons with Welker (who was largely a product of elite QB play)? And who were the Pats running backs? Even the O line seems like it gets shuffled around a lot.

    You're reachin hard as hell saying Brady's had the best supporting casts throughout his career.

    Have you ever wondered an argument against me....nope

    This is another W on my list. You're crazy as hell saying Brady has had the best teams throughout his career. Name some of his best WR's and RB's. Reachin hard as hell.

    @ghost! @its....JOHN B are Pats fans I think. They should know how the Pats roster has been over the years...tell them how Brady had the best supporting casts his whole career.

    I never said he had the best supporting cast wtf. I said he has had the best teams. You don't have to have the best talent in the world to win.

    Now tell me how has brady not had the best situation in football the past 15 years?

    Removing the QB and looking at the offense, plenty of teams are in as good as, or better, situations. Cowboys, Falcons, Steelers, Cardinals, Chiefs, Giants, Raiders, Bengals. A couple more could probably added as a comparable team.

    This man just threw 28 TD's and 2 INT's this season. He averaged more TD's per game, than he had total interceptions. All that with Gronk being hurt for a big part of the year. Last year he had 36 TD'S 7 INT with all his WR's being hurt and missing games, and an average running game.

    All the team's you just named aren't better than the Pats.
    You don't even know what you're talking about. How can you say that the Pats are similar to the other teams but when those teams lose dez or a Aj Green they're offensive isn't the same. Pats lose players and the still win that means brady is in a better situation. Pats gets players that fit there system

    I didn't say those teams were better or similar to the Pats. I said their offensive personnel (with the QB's removed) are as good as or better than the Pats offensive personnel.

    And in the bolded, that's just some hater logic. So if Edelman gets hurt, and Brady does worse, that would reflect well on Brady? Because you're saying if Edelman gets hurt, and Brady keeps doing well it's a knock on Brady (because you're taking credit away from him, and giving it to his system)

    The personal is better talent wise but Pats system is better overall and they have the stats to prove it.

    I'm not being a hater at all. You have these players who step in and and do good . That points to the coaching system .

    You even have a dumb ass pats fan that making my point with it being the system when they lose players.

    BB is the mastermind behind all of this and he has a winning record with out brady

    He's not making your point. You're changing your point. Now it's Brady has a better coach/system. Your original point was he has a better team. That's not the same thing.

    Yes, he did. You're the one that brought up the offenses comparison I basically said the better team. So when you bought up the offensive comparison that's when I alluded to the system and not the players.

    So yes my point still stands that Brady throughout the last 15 years has had the better team. I never brought up the individual players because like I said earlier Pat's run a good system and that's a fact

    The system aspect is an overrated cop out. BB wasn't winning before Tom. Tom hasn't played without BB. They're on their way to their 7th SB, and they've won 4...none without each other. Before Tom this was Bill's career.

    - 5 seasons in CLE, and 4 of them were losing seasons. Overall record 37-45
    - 1 season in NE with a 5-11 record (2000)...this was pre-Brady. Overall record 42-56
    - The following year the Pats start 0-2 (Bill is 5-13 in NE and has an Overall record 42-58
    - Brady becomes the starter in game 3 and the Pats go 14-3 to finish the season and win the SB.
    - Brady goes on to go 207-61, winning 77% of his games

    So my question is where was this irreplaceable "anyone can win" situation pre-Brady? When BB had 6 seasons as a coach, 5 of them were losing seasons, and he made the playoffs once, where was the system? When Bill has 64 losses and reached the playoffs once in just over 7 seasons without Brady, vs 61 losses, and reaching the playoffs 15 times in 16 seasons WITH Brady, can you back up the system claim?

    You and your strawman arguments smh....Doesn't BB have a winning record while at NE without brady 13-6?? What other proof do you need? Why do you feel the need to have me answer all those question when you and I have both witness NE lose players and they still win. What does that tell you? How is that not the best situation when people on your team go down and you still win? It's coaching, you don't have to have big names to win and NE has proved that time and time again.

    You keep coming at me but you still haven't refuted my claim that Brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 years. This all started when people try to downplay Dak and his situation with the cowboys and what to give the "yea but" he has talent on his team and a offense line etc. But when you bring up brady situation it's just because brady great smh.

    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.
  • bow to royaltybow to royalty Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    blu197 wrote: »
    When Brady was out for a season Pats went 11-5 and missed the playoffs but were 16-0 and made the Super Bowl the year b4 with Brady throwing for 50+ TDs and breaking records that year...

    This tells you that Brady has a 5 game impact. So if you were to hypothetically remove Brady from the Pats from whatever season, subtract 5 wins off from their record, I'm sure Pats miss the playoffs 90% of the time.

    Not just that. I think they had one of the easiest schedules in the year of the 11-5 season, and one of the hardest when they went 16-0. 5 more wins despite a harder schedule.
  • Olorun22Olorun22 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24
    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people ] get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.


    Show me in any of my post that I have stated that system makes brady great? I said brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 year. Thats a fact , now why is that a fact? It's a fact because they lose player thru trades and free agency and still win.

    Now, I forgot all about that 2000 season tbh but even with that he still has a winning record lol

    Now, lets address your strawman. Anyone who has read our exchange can clearly see you
    A) bring up offensive talent for this year.. when I said best situation in the Past 15
    B)You to bring up pre- brady situation that has nothing to do with my saying the past 15 brady has had the best situation in football

    The pats get player that fit their system that's why they don't miss a beat. They don't just go out there and pick up a player that has talent but doesn't fit in their system. That means that the coaching is great and brady understand that system and he excels at it.

    Now when have I said brady wasn't a great qb? All I said was he was in the best situation in football the past 15 years

    Edit: You feel like brady just domainate with less talent because he's that good or what?
  • 5 Grand5 Grand Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people ] get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.


    Show me in any of my post that I have stated that system makes brady great? I said brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 year. Thats a fact , now why is that a fact? It's a fact because they lose player thru trades and free agency and still win.

    Now, I forgot all about that 2000 season tbh but even with that he still has a winning record lol

    Now, lets address your strawman. Anyone who has read our exchange can clearly see you
    A) bring up offensive talent for this year.. when I said best situation in the Past 15
    B)You to bring up pre- brady situation that has nothing to do with my saying the past 15 brady has had the best situation in football

    The pats get player that fit their system that's why they don't miss a beat. They don't just go out there and pick up a player that has talent but doesn't fit in their system. That means that the coaching is great and brady understand that system and he excels at it.

    Now when have I said brady wasn't a great qb? All I said was he was in the best situation in football the past 15 years

    Edit: You feel like brady just domain with less talent because he's that good or what?

    I'd have to disagree.

    I don't think its the other 52 players that are helping Brady win all these Superbowls.

    I'm inclined to think its the other way around; Brady is helping the other 52 players win Superbowls.
  • bow to royaltybow to royalty Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people ] get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.


    Show me in any of my post that I have stated that system makes brady great? I said brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 year. Thats a fact , now why is that a fact? It's a fact because they lose player thru trades and free agency and still win.

    Now, I forgot all about that 2000 season tbh but even with that he still has a winning record lol

    Now, lets address your strawman. Anyone who has read our exchange can clearly see you
    A) bring up offensive talent for this year.. when I said best situation in the Past 15
    B)You to bring up pre- brady situation that has nothing to do with my saying the past 15 brady has had the best situation in football

    The pats get player that fit their system that's why they don't miss a beat. They don't just go out there and pick up a player that has talent but doesn't fit in their system. That means that the coaching is great and brady understand that system and he excels at it.

    Now when have I said brady wasn't a great qb? All I said was he was in the best situation in football the past 15 years

    Edit: You feel like brady just domain with less talent because he's that good or what?

    Sounds like you're downplaying Brady by giving too much credit to his system. So BB has gone 19-18 with the Pats and without Brady and that shows the best system out there? 1 game over .500 does that?

    A) I posted a picture with all of the Pats offensive leaders since Brady started with them in 01, talked about the Moss/Welker years, and asked you who were the good WR's and RB's Brady has played with. How is that me focusing on just this year?

    B ) Brady joined a losing coach, fresh off a 5-11 season, that was off to an 0-2 start in 2001. What's this great system you keep saying he walked into? If you're gonna say it's the system, then you need to be able to show the system working before he got there.

    If a player goes to Bama and wins a championship, you can say it's the system because they've been winning. If he goes to Virginia Tech and wins it, you can't say it's the system because the system has been failing.


    You don't even consider the system as existing until Brady starts. That's why what you're saying is bullshit.
    . Talking bout you forgot BB was even the coach their before Brady started balling.
    5 Grandnujerz84
  • bow to royaltybow to royalty Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And yes. I think Brady dominate because he's that good. I hate him and the Pats, but it is what it is. Does he benefit by having good things around him? Ya, everyone does. But after 15 years, 7 AFC championships, 4 SB wins, 3 SB MVP's, 2 regular season MVP's, and 2 offensive player of the year awards might be time to admit he can carry an offense with little help.
    5 Grand
  • 5 Grand5 Grand Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And yes. I think Brady dominate because he's that good. I hate him and the Pats, but it is what it is. Does he benefit by having good things around him? Ya, everyone does. But after 15 years, 7 AFC championships, 4 SB wins, 3 SB MVP's, 2 regular season MVP's, and 2 offensive player of the year awards might be time to admit he can carry an offense with little help.

    End of discussion
  • Jonah 2.0Jonah 2.0 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So that boy Dak, he's pretty good.
    Revolver Ocelot
  • Olorun22Olorun22 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people ] get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.


    Show me in any of my post that I have stated that system makes brady great? I said brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 year. Thats a fact , now why is that a fact? It's a fact because they lose player thru trades and free agency and still win.

    Now, I forgot all about that 2000 season tbh but even with that he still has a winning record lol

    Now, lets address your strawman. Anyone who has read our exchange can clearly see you
    A) bring up offensive talent for this year.. when I said best situation in the Past 15
    B)You to bring up pre- brady situation that has nothing to do with my saying the past 15 brady has had the best situation in football

    The pats get player that fit their system that's why they don't miss a beat. They don't just go out there and pick up a player that has talent but doesn't fit in their system. That means that the coaching is great and brady understand that system and he excels at it.

    Now when have I said brady wasn't a great qb? All I said was he was in the best situation in football the past 15 years

    Edit: You feel like brady just domain with less talent because he's that good or what?

    Sounds like you're downplaying Brady by giving too much credit to his system. So BB has gone 19-18 with the Pats and without Brady and that shows the best system out there? 1 game over .500 does that?

    A) I posted a picture with all of the Pats offensive leaders since Brady started with them in 01, talked about the Moss/Welker years, and asked you who were the good WR's and RB's Brady has played with. How is that me focusing on just this year?

    B ) Brady joined a losing coach, fresh off a 5-11 season, that was off to an 0-2 start in 2001. What's this great system you keep saying he walked into? If you're gonna say it's the system, then you need to be able to show the system working before he got there.

    If a player goes to Bama and wins a championship, you can say it's the system because they've been winning. If he goes to Virginia Tech and wins it, you can't say it's the system because the system has been failing.


    You don't even consider the system as existing until Brady starts. That's why what you're saying is bullshit.
    . Talking bout you forgot BB was even the coach their before Brady started balling.

    BB first stint as a head coach doesn't take away what he has done with the system that he has now. Just like pete Carroll stint with NE doesn't take away what his system in Seattle does.

    You can learn from your mistakes and come back better than before just like this too has. Now, BB first season with the Pats the players was new to his system so I don't understand why you think you can just come in and win the super like that. It can happen but rarely does.

    This is funny tbh. Is tom brady bring players in or is it BB? Who makes the personnel decision tom brady or BB? So, you just going to dismiss thedecision being made on what players are being used for the system they run rather it be offensive defensive special teams?

    As a head coach/Gm BB has been making these decisions and when he brings in a player for his system and the player goes down and another player steps up that's BB not tom brady.. it's all about coaching and personnel decisions.

    Name a qb in the past 15 years that has been in a better situation than Tom Brady?
  • Olorun22Olorun22 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And yes. I think Brady dominate because he's that good. I hate him and the Pats, but it is what it is. Does he benefit by having good things around him? Ya, everyone does. But after 15 years, 7 AFC championships, 4 SB wins, 3 SB MVP's, 2 regular season MVP's, and 2 offensive player of the year awards might be time to admit he can carry an offense with little help.


    Why are you debate me for if you knew this too be true ?he has had the best situation in football the past 15 years.
  • bow to royaltybow to royalty Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people ] get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.


    Show me in any of my post that I have stated that system makes brady great? I said brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 year. Thats a fact , now why is that a fact? It's a fact because they lose player thru trades and free agency and still win.

    Now, I forgot all about that 2000 season tbh but even with that he still has a winning record lol

    Now, lets address your strawman. Anyone who has read our exchange can clearly see you
    A) bring up offensive talent for this year.. when I said best situation in the Past 15
    B)You to bring up pre- brady situation that has nothing to do with my saying the past 15 brady has had the best situation in football

    The pats get player that fit their system that's why they don't miss a beat. They don't just go out there and pick up a player that has talent but doesn't fit in their system. That means that the coaching is great and brady understand that system and he excels at it.

    Now when have I said brady wasn't a great qb? All I said was he was in the best situation in football the past 15 years

    Edit: You feel like brady just domain with less talent because he's that good or what?

    Sounds like you're downplaying Brady by giving too much credit to his system. So BB has gone 19-18 with the Pats and without Brady and that shows the best system out there? 1 game over .500 does that?

    A) I posted a picture with all of the Pats offensive leaders since Brady started with them in 01, talked about the Moss/Welker years, and asked you who were the good WR's and RB's Brady has played with. How is that me focusing on just this year?

    B ) Brady joined a losing coach, fresh off a 5-11 season, that was off to an 0-2 start in 2001. What's this great system you keep saying he walked into? If you're gonna say it's the system, then you need to be able to show the system working before he got there.

    If a player goes to Bama and wins a championship, you can say it's the system because they've been winning. If he goes to Virginia Tech and wins it, you can't say it's the system because the system has been failing.


    You don't even consider the system as existing until Brady starts. That's why what you're saying is bullshit.
    . Talking bout you forgot BB was even the coach their before Brady started balling.

    BB first stint as a head coach doesn't take away what he has done with the system that he has now. Just like pete Carroll stint with NE doesn't take away what his system in Seattle does.

    You can learn from your mistakes and come back better than before just like this too has. Now, BB first season with the Pats the players was new to his system so I don't understand why you think you can just come in and win the super like that. It can happen but rarely does.

    This is funny tbh. Is tom brady bring players in or is it BB? Who makes the personnel decision tom brady or BB? So, you just going to dismiss thedecision being made on what players are being used for the system they run rather it be offensive defensive special teams?

    As a head coach/Gm BB has been making these decisions and when he brings in a player for his system and the player goes down and another player steps up that's BB not tom brady.. it's all about coaching and personnel decisions.

    Name a qb in the past 15 years that has been in a better situation than Tom Brady?

    I'm not taking anything away from him. He's an amazing coach. My issue is you're saying it's the system having a big impact on Brady's play, but you can't show this amazing system before Brady. And they win the SB in his 2nd year. Quinn is in the SB right now in his first year.

    Defense and special teams aren't what make Tom shit on the league every year. They do help the Pats win, but not Brady stats. Offensively BB hasn't brought in a lot of big offensive talent.

    Other QB's have been in situations as good.

    Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge, Garcon, D. Thomas, Decker, E Sanders, Knowshon Moreno.

    Kurt Warner was in the greatest show on turf offense (Faulk, Bruce, and Holt) and had Boldin and Fitzgerald together for years, and Edge.

    Big Ben has had Ward, Holmes, Wallace, Brown, Bettis, Willie Parker, Mendenhall, Bell, and Heath Miller.
  • Olorun22Olorun22 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people ] get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.


    Show me in any of my post that I have stated that system makes brady great? I said brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 year. Thats a fact , now why is that a fact? It's a fact because they lose player thru trades and free agency and still win.

    Now, I forgot all about that 2000 season tbh but even with that he still has a winning record lol

    Now, lets address your strawman. Anyone who has read our exchange can clearly see you
    A) bring up offensive talent for this year.. when I said best situation in the Past 15
    B)You to bring up pre- brady situation that has nothing to do with my saying the past 15 brady has had the best situation in football

    The pats get player that fit their system that's why they don't miss a beat. They don't just go out there and pick up a player that has talent but doesn't fit in their system. That means that the coaching is great and brady understand that system and he excels at it.

    Now when have I said brady wasn't a great qb? All I said was he was in the best situation in football the past 15 years

    Edit: You feel like brady just domain with less talent because he's that good or what?

    Sounds like you're downplaying Brady by giving too much credit to his system. So BB has gone 19-18 with the Pats and without Brady and that shows the best system out there? 1 game over .500 does that?

    A) I posted a picture with all of the Pats offensive leaders since Brady started with them in 01, talked about the Moss/Welker years, and asked you who were the good WR's and RB's Brady has played with. How is that me focusing on just this year?

    B ) Brady joined a losing coach, fresh off a 5-11 season, that was off to an 0-2 start in 2001. What's this great system you keep saying he walked into? If you're gonna say it's the system, then you need to be able to show the system working before he got there.

    If a player goes to Bama and wins a championship, you can say it's the system because they've been winning. If he goes to Virginia Tech and wins it, you can't say it's the system because the system has been failing.


    You don't even consider the system as existing until Brady starts. That's why what you're saying is bullshit.
    . Talking bout you forgot BB was even the coach their before Brady started balling.

    BB first stint as a head coach doesn't take away what he has done with the system that he has now. Just like pete Carroll stint with NE doesn't take away what his system in Seattle does.

    You can learn from your mistakes and come back better than before just like this too has. Now, BB first season with the Pats the players was new to his system so I don't understand why you think you can just come in and win the super like that. It can happen but rarely does.

    This is funny tbh. Is tom brady bring players in or is it BB? Who makes the personnel decision tom brady or BB? So, you just going to dismiss thedecision being made on what players are being used for the system they run rather it be offensive defensive special teams?

    As a head coach/Gm BB has been making these decisions and when he brings in a player for his system and the player goes down and another player steps up that's BB not tom brady.. it's all about coaching and personnel decisions.

    Name a qb in the past 15 years that has been in a better situation than Tom Brady?

    I'm not taking anything away from him. He's an amazing coach. My issue is you're saying it's the system having a big impact on Brady's play, but you can't show this amazing system before Brady. And they win the SB in his 2nd year. Quinn is in the SB right now in his first year.

    Defense and special teams aren't what make Tom shit on the league every year. They do help the Pats win, but not Brady stats. Offensively BB hasn't brought in a lot of big offensive talent.

    Other QB's have been in situations as good.

    Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge, Garcon, D. Thomas, Decker, E Sanders, Knowshon Moreno.

    Kurt Warner was in the greatest show on turf offense (Faulk, Bruce, and Holt) and had Boldin and Fitzgerald together for years, and Edge.

    Big Ben has had Ward, Holmes, Wallace, Brown, Bettis, Willie Parker, Mendenhall, Bell, and Heath Miller.

    I'm telling you all you do is strawman debate.
    I never said that the system does or does not have an effect on Brady's play I said Brady has had the best situation in the past 15 years in football also none of those teams has been consistent as a Patriots for the last 15 years because they have the best system.

    Plus you only talking about offense when I said Team. The Patriots Has had a amazing run due to the coaching staff and the system that they run
  • 5 Grand5 Grand Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people ] get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.


    Show me in any of my post that I have stated that system makes brady great? I said brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 year. Thats a fact , now why is that a fact? It's a fact because they lose player thru trades and free agency and still win.

    Now, I forgot all about that 2000 season tbh but even with that he still has a winning record lol

    Now, lets address your strawman. Anyone who has read our exchange can clearly see you
    A) bring up offensive talent for this year.. when I said best situation in the Past 15
    B)You to bring up pre- brady situation that has nothing to do with my saying the past 15 brady has had the best situation in football

    The pats get player that fit their system that's why they don't miss a beat. They don't just go out there and pick up a player that has talent but doesn't fit in their system. That means that the coaching is great and brady understand that system and he excels at it.

    Now when have I said brady wasn't a great qb? All I said was he was in the best situation in football the past 15 years

    Edit: You feel like brady just domain with less talent because he's that good or what?

    Sounds like you're downplaying Brady by giving too much credit to his system. So BB has gone 19-18 with the Pats and without Brady and that shows the best system out there? 1 game over .500 does that?

    A) I posted a picture with all of the Pats offensive leaders since Brady started with them in 01, talked about the Moss/Welker years, and asked you who were the good WR's and RB's Brady has played with. How is that me focusing on just this year?

    B ) Brady joined a losing coach, fresh off a 5-11 season, that was off to an 0-2 start in 2001. What's this great system you keep saying he walked into? If you're gonna say it's the system, then you need to be able to show the system working before he got there.

    If a player goes to Bama and wins a championship, you can say it's the system because they've been winning. If he goes to Virginia Tech and wins it, you can't say it's the system because the system has been failing.


    You don't even consider the system as existing until Brady starts. That's why what you're saying is bullshit.
    . Talking bout you forgot BB was even the coach their before Brady started balling.

    BB first stint as a head coach doesn't take away what he has done with the system that he has now. Just like pete Carroll stint with NE doesn't take away what his system in Seattle does.

    You can learn from your mistakes and come back better than before just like this too has. Now, BB first season with the Pats the players was new to his system so I don't understand why you think you can just come in and win the super like that. It can happen but rarely does.

    This is funny tbh. Is tom brady bring players in or is it BB? Who makes the personnel decision tom brady or BB? So, you just going to dismiss thedecision being made on what players are being used for the system they run rather it be offensive defensive special teams?

    As a head coach/Gm BB has been making these decisions and when he brings in a player for his system and the player goes down and another player steps up that's BB not tom brady.. it's all about coaching and personnel decisions.

    Name a qb in the past 15 years that has been in a better situation than Tom Brady?

    I'm not taking anything away from him. He's an amazing coach. My issue is you're saying it's the system having a big impact on Brady's play, but you can't show this amazing system before Brady. And they win the SB in his 2nd year. Quinn is in the SB right now in his first year.

    Defense and special teams aren't what make Tom shit on the league every year. They do help the Pats win, but not Brady stats. Offensively BB hasn't brought in a lot of big offensive talent.

    Other QB's have been in situations as good.

    Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge, Garcon, D. Thomas, Decker, E Sanders, Knowshon Moreno.

    Kurt Warner was in the greatest show on turf offense (Faulk, Bruce, and Holt) and had Boldin and Fitzgerald together for years, and Edge.

    Big Ben has had Ward, Holmes, Wallace, Brown, Bettis, Willie Parker, Mendenhall, Bell, and Heath Miller.

    I'm telling you all you do is strawman debate.
    I never said that the system does or does not have an effect on Brady's play I said Brady has had the best situation in the past 15 years in football also none of those teams has been consistent as a Patriots for the last 15 years because they have the best system.

    Plus you only talking about offense when I said Team. The Patriots Has had a amazing run due to the coaching staff and the system that they run

    Thats complete bullshit

    The Patriots have gone to the Superbowl 7 times in the past 15 years for one reason; Tom Brady is the greatest Quarterback to ever touch a football.

    The coach and system doesn't have anything to do with it. You could put Tom Brady on the Cleveland Browns and he'd still have a few rings.
    Olorun22PanchoYoSanchoRevolver Ocelot
  • bow to royaltybow to royalty Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people ] get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.


    Show me in any of my post that I have stated that system makes brady great? I said brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 year. Thats a fact , now why is that a fact? It's a fact because they lose player thru trades and free agency and still win.

    Now, I forgot all about that 2000 season tbh but even with that he still has a winning record lol

    Now, lets address your strawman. Anyone who has read our exchange can clearly see you
    A) bring up offensive talent for this year.. when I said best situation in the Past 15
    B)You to bring up pre- brady situation that has nothing to do with my saying the past 15 brady has had the best situation in football

    The pats get player that fit their system that's why they don't miss a beat. They don't just go out there and pick up a player that has talent but doesn't fit in their system. That means that the coaching is great and brady understand that system and he excels at it.

    Now when have I said brady wasn't a great qb? All I said was he was in the best situation in football the past 15 years

    Edit: You feel like brady just domain with less talent because he's that good or what?

    Sounds like you're downplaying Brady by giving too much credit to his system. So BB has gone 19-18 with the Pats and without Brady and that shows the best system out there? 1 game over .500 does that?

    A) I posted a picture with all of the Pats offensive leaders since Brady started with them in 01, talked about the Moss/Welker years, and asked you who were the good WR's and RB's Brady has played with. How is that me focusing on just this year?

    B ) Brady joined a losing coach, fresh off a 5-11 season, that was off to an 0-2 start in 2001. What's this great system you keep saying he walked into? If you're gonna say it's the system, then you need to be able to show the system working before he got there.

    If a player goes to Bama and wins a championship, you can say it's the system because they've been winning. If he goes to Virginia Tech and wins it, you can't say it's the system because the system has been failing.


    You don't even consider the system as existing until Brady starts. That's why what you're saying is bullshit.
    . Talking bout you forgot BB was even the coach their before Brady started balling.

    BB first stint as a head coach doesn't take away what he has done with the system that he has now. Just like pete Carroll stint with NE doesn't take away what his system in Seattle does.

    You can learn from your mistakes and come back better than before just like this too has. Now, BB first season with the Pats the players was new to his system so I don't understand why you think you can just come in and win the super like that. It can happen but rarely does.

    This is funny tbh. Is tom brady bring players in or is it BB? Who makes the personnel decision tom brady or BB? So, you just going to dismiss thedecision being made on what players are being used for the system they run rather it be offensive defensive special teams?

    As a head coach/Gm BB has been making these decisions and when he brings in a player for his system and the player goes down and another player steps up that's BB not tom brady.. it's all about coaching and personnel decisions.

    Name a qb in the past 15 years that has been in a better situation than Tom Brady?

    I'm not taking anything away from him. He's an amazing coach. My issue is you're saying it's the system having a big impact on Brady's play, but you can't show this amazing system before Brady. And they win the SB in his 2nd year. Quinn is in the SB right now in his first year.

    Defense and special teams aren't what make Tom shit on the league every year. They do help the Pats win, but not Brady stats. Offensively BB hasn't brought in a lot of big offensive talent.

    Other QB's have been in situations as good.

    Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge, Garcon, D. Thomas, Decker, E Sanders, Knowshon Moreno.

    Kurt Warner was in the greatest show on turf offense (Faulk, Bruce, and Holt) and had Boldin and Fitzgerald together for years, and Edge.

    Big Ben has had Ward, Holmes, Wallace, Brown, Bettis, Willie Parker, Mendenhall, Bell, and Heath Miller.

    I'm telling you all you do is strawman debate.
    I never said that the system does or does not have an effect on Brady's play I said Brady has had the best situation in the past 15 years in football also none of those teams has been consistent as a Patriots for the last 15 years because they have the best system.

    Plus you only talking about offense when I said Team. The Patriots Has had a amazing run due to the coaching staff and the system that they run

    If you didn't think it had an effect on his play, you wouldn't have brought it up. Or are you just bringing up random things you don't think are relevant?

    This thread is about if you think a QB is the truth. Why do you need to look at the defense and special teams to determine that? So ya, I'm focusing on offense. Aaron Rodgers is the truth..you need to look at his defense to know that?
  • bow to royaltybow to royalty Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Trollio wrote: »
    So is this thread about dak?

    haha, my stance on that is the same. Let's see him play a little bit more, and also overcome some adversity. Dak could be the truth...just too early to tell.
  • Olorun22Olorun22 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people ] get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.


    Show me in any of my post that I have stated that system makes brady great? I said brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 year. Thats a fact , now why is that a fact? It's a fact because they lose player thru trades and free agency and still win.

    Now, I forgot all about that 2000 season tbh but even with that he still has a winning record lol

    Now, lets address your strawman. Anyone who has read our exchange can clearly see you
    A) bring up offensive talent for this year.. when I said best situation in the Past 15
    B)You to bring up pre- brady situation that has nothing to do with my saying the past 15 brady has had the best situation in football

    The pats get player that fit their system that's why they don't miss a beat. They don't just go out there and pick up a player that has talent but doesn't fit in their system. That means that the coaching is great and brady understand that system and he excels at it.

    Now when have I said brady wasn't a great qb? All I said was he was in the best situation in football the past 15 years

    Edit: You feel like brady just domain with less talent because he's that good or what?

    Sounds like you're downplaying Brady by giving too much credit to his system. So BB has gone 19-18 with the Pats and without Brady and that shows the best system out there? 1 game over .500 does that?

    A) I posted a picture with all of the Pats offensive leaders since Brady started with them in 01, talked about the Moss/Welker years, and asked you who were the good WR's and RB's Brady has played with. How is that me focusing on just this year?

    B ) Brady joined a losing coach, fresh off a 5-11 season, that was off to an 0-2 start in 2001. What's this great system you keep saying he walked into? If you're gonna say it's the system, then you need to be able to show the system working before he got there.

    If a player goes to Bama and wins a championship, you can say it's the system because they've been winning. If he goes to Virginia Tech and wins it, you can't say it's the system because the system has been failing.


    You don't even consider the system as existing until Brady starts. That's why what you're saying is bullshit.
    . Talking bout you forgot BB was even the coach their before Brady started balling.

    BB first stint as a head coach doesn't take away what he has done with the system that he has now. Just like pete Carroll stint with NE doesn't take away what his system in Seattle does.

    You can learn from your mistakes and come back better than before just like this too has. Now, BB first season with the Pats the players was new to his system so I don't understand why you think you can just come in and win the super like that. It can happen but rarely does.

    This is funny tbh. Is tom brady bring players in or is it BB? Who makes the personnel decision tom brady or BB? So, you just going to dismiss thedecision being made on what players are being used for the system they run rather it be offensive defensive special teams?

    As a head coach/Gm BB has been making these decisions and when he brings in a player for his system and the player goes down and another player steps up that's BB not tom brady.. it's all about coaching and personnel decisions.

    Name a qb in the past 15 years that has been in a better situation than Tom Brady?

    I'm not taking anything away from him. He's an amazing coach. My issue is you're saying it's the system having a big impact on Brady's play, but you can't show this amazing system before Brady. And they win the SB in his 2nd year. Quinn is in the SB right now in his first year.

    Defense and special teams aren't what make Tom shit on the league every year. They do help the Pats win, but not Brady stats. Offensively BB hasn't brought in a lot of big offensive talent.

    Other QB's have been in situations as good.

    Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge, Garcon, D. Thomas, Decker, E Sanders, Knowshon Moreno.

    Kurt Warner was in the greatest show on turf offense (Faulk, Bruce, and Holt) and had Boldin and Fitzgerald together for years, and Edge.

    Big Ben has had Ward, Holmes, Wallace, Brown, Bettis, Willie Parker, Mendenhall, Bell, and Heath Miller.

    I'm telling you all you do is strawman debate.
    I never said that the system does or does not have an effect on Brady's play I said Brady has had the best situation in the past 15 years in football also none of those teams has been consistent as a Patriots for the last 15 years because they have the best system.

    Plus you only talking about offense when I said Team. The Patriots Has had a amazing run due to the coaching staff and the system that they run

    If you didn't think it had an effect on his play, you wouldn't have brought it up. Or are you just bringing up random things you don't think are relevant?

    This thread is about if you think a QB is the truth. Why do you need to look at the defense and special teams to determine that? So ya, I'm focusing on offense. Aaron Rodgers is the truth..you need to look at his defense to know that?

    I made the statement because brady having the best teams doesn't effects his legacy. So, it shouldn't effect Dak. You have to be fair and consistent when you judge people. You don't have to say he's in a good situations and that whats make him good. But, don't hold others up to the same standard when they're in a good situation as well
  • bow to royaltybow to royalty Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    What straw man argument? You said it's the system making Brady great, and you can just plug anyone in on that team. I showed you what BB (the creater of the system), has done without Brady. I see you didn't read my post. How can BB have 6 losses without Brady, when he was 5-13 in NE before Brady took over? I gave you a breakdown of his career. He may be about 19-18 in NE without Brady, but that's a long way from some unstoppable offensive system. And that still gives him a losing record as a head coach without Brady.

    I did refute your claim. I gave you teams with offenses as good as or better than what Brady has around him. You didn't prove your claim about the system. You say they do good regardless of player injuries, but won't give Brady credit for dominating despite people dropping around him.

    Prove your system is greater than Brady claim. BB's losing record without Brady isn't going to do it. Just saying Brady does good when people ] get hurt doesn't rule out the possibility that Brady is just good enough to dominate with less talented people.


    Show me in any of my post that I have stated that system makes brady great? I said brady has had the best situation in football the past 15 year. Thats a fact , now why is that a fact? It's a fact because they lose player thru trades and free agency and still win.

    Now, I forgot all about that 2000 season tbh but even with that he still has a winning record lol

    Now, lets address your strawman. Anyone who has read our exchange can clearly see you
    A) bring up offensive talent for this year.. when I said best situation in the Past 15
    B)You to bring up pre- brady situation that has nothing to do with my saying the past 15 brady has had the best situation in football

    The pats get player that fit their system that's why they don't miss a beat. They don't just go out there and pick up a player that has talent but doesn't fit in their system. That means that the coaching is great and brady understand that system and he excels at it.

    Now when have I said brady wasn't a great qb? All I said was he was in the best situation in football the past 15 years

    Edit: You feel like brady just domain with less talent because he's that good or what?

    Sounds like you're downplaying Brady by giving too much credit to his system. So BB has gone 19-18 with the Pats and without Brady and that shows the best system out there? 1 game over .500 does that?

    A) I posted a picture with all of the Pats offensive leaders since Brady started with them in 01, talked about the Moss/Welker years, and asked you who were the good WR's and RB's Brady has played with. How is that me focusing on just this year?

    B ) Brady joined a losing coach, fresh off a 5-11 season, that was off to an 0-2 start in 2001. What's this great system you keep saying he walked into? If you're gonna say it's the system, then you need to be able to show the system working before he got there.

    If a player goes to Bama and wins a championship, you can say it's the system because they've been winning. If he goes to Virginia Tech and wins it, you can't say it's the system because the system has been failing.


    You don't even consider the system as existing until Brady starts. That's why what you're saying is bullshit.
    . Talking bout you forgot BB was even the coach their before Brady started balling.

    BB first stint as a head coach doesn't take away what he has done with the system that he has now. Just like pete Carroll stint with NE doesn't take away what his system in Seattle does.

    You can learn from your mistakes and come back better than before just like this too has. Now, BB first season with the Pats the players was new to his system so I don't understand why you think you can just come in and win the super like that. It can happen but rarely does.

    This is funny tbh. Is tom brady bring players in or is it BB? Who makes the personnel decision tom brady or BB? So, you just going to dismiss thedecision being made on what players are being used for the system they run rather it be offensive defensive special teams?

    As a head coach/Gm BB has been making these decisions and when he brings in a player for his system and the player goes down and another player steps up that's BB not tom brady.. it's all about coaching and personnel decisions.

    Name a qb in the past 15 years that has been in a better situation than Tom Brady?

    I'm not taking anything away from him. He's an amazing coach. My issue is you're saying it's the system having a big impact on Brady's play, but you can't show this amazing system before Brady. And they win the SB in his 2nd year. Quinn is in the SB right now in his first year.

    Defense and special teams aren't what make Tom shit on the league every year. They do help the Pats win, but not Brady stats. Offensively BB hasn't brought in a lot of big offensive talent.

    Other QB's have been in situations as good.

    Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge, Garcon, D. Thomas, Decker, E Sanders, Knowshon Moreno.

    Kurt Warner was in the greatest show on turf offense (Faulk, Bruce, and Holt) and had Boldin and Fitzgerald together for years, and Edge.

    Big Ben has had Ward, Holmes, Wallace, Brown, Bettis, Willie Parker, Mendenhall, Bell, and Heath Miller.

    I'm telling you all you do is strawman debate.
    I never said that the system does or does not have an effect on Brady's play I said Brady has had the best situation in the past 15 years in football also none of those teams has been consistent as a Patriots for the last 15 years because they have the best system.

    Plus you only talking about offense when I said Team. The Patriots Has had a amazing run due to the coaching staff and the system that they run

    If you didn't think it had an effect on his play, you wouldn't have brought it up. Or are you just bringing up random things you don't think are relevant?

    This thread is about if you think a QB is the truth. Why do you need to look at the defense and special teams to determine that? So ya, I'm focusing on offense. Aaron Rodgers is the truth..you need to look at his defense to know that?

    I made the statement because brady having the best teams doesn't effects his legacy. So, it shouldn't effect Dak. You have to be fair and consistent when you judge people. You don't have to say he's in a good situations and that whats make him good. But, don't hold others up to the same standard when they're in a good situation as well

    Bruh come on. You're asking why a rookie doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt as a 4 time SB champ, 3 time SB.MVP, 2 time regular season MVP, first ever unanimous MVP player with 15 seasons under his belt? And I'm not holding him up to a different standard really. Tom has shown an insanely high level of play over time, and overcome adversity. You just can't acknowledge that because you think you can't have adversity as long as BB is your coach.

    And again, your bias tells you BB didn't count as a coaching genius until the moment Brady starts playing for him. Because that gives you a cop out to any success he has.
  • Olorun22Olorun22 Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bruh come on. You're asking why a rookie doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt as a 4 time SB champ, 3 time SB.MVP, 2 time regular season MVP, first ever unanimous MVP player with 15 seasons under his belt? And I'm not holding him up to a different standard really. Tom has shown an insanely high level of play over time, and overcome adversity. You just can't acknowledge that because you think you can't have adversity as long as BB is your coach.

    And again, your bias tells you BB didn't count as a coaching genius until the moment Brady starts playing for him. Because that gives you a cop out to any success he has.

    It's not about rookie vs vet. It's about giving credit where credit is due. You can't have it both ways rather it's about dak, russell etc. saying they're only good because of their teams when someone else has had the best teams the past 15 years.


  • bow to royaltybow to royalty Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olorun22 wrote: »
    Bruh come on. You're asking why a rookie doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt as a 4 time SB champ, 3 time SB.MVP, 2 time regular season MVP, first ever unanimous MVP player with 15 seasons under his belt? And I'm not holding him up to a different standard really. Tom has shown an insanely high level of play over time, and overcome adversity. You just can't acknowledge that because you think you can't have adversity as long as BB is your coach.

    And again, your bias tells you BB didn't count as a coaching genius until the moment Brady starts playing for him. Because that gives you a cop out to any success he has.

    It's not about rookie vs vet. It's about giving credit where credit is due. You can't have it both ways rather it's about dak, russell etc. saying they're only good because of their teams when someone else has had the best teams the past 15 years.


    Russell did it with little help. He's a different situation. I gave credit where it was due. I never said he didn't have a good season. I said to the question "Is he the truth?", that I needed to see more, and said what I needed to see. Not rushing to judgment isn't knocking him. I'd say the same thing for any rookie.

    I also didn't say he was only good because of his team. I said he's in a situation that makes it easier for a QB to excel. He was one of least sacked QB's, had one of the best run games, and he wasn't asked to throw the ball too much.. Good situation to be in. 1 year played, and in that situation....tough to call him the truth yet.
  • PanchoYoSanchoPanchoYoSancho To all the killas and the hundid dolla billasPosts: 12,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    blu197 wrote: »
    When Brady was out for a season Pats went 11-5 and missed the playoffs but were 16-0 and made the Super Bowl the year b4 with Brady throwing for 50+ TDs and breaking records that year...

    This tells you that Brady has a 5 game impact. So if you were to hypothetically remove Brady from the Pats from whatever season, subtract 5 wins off from their record, I'm sure Pats miss the playoffs 90% of the time.
    And when Brady came back the next year, they went 10-6. One less win than they had before.
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