The Official 2pac Versus Biggie Thread...

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  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    Just watch the Interview, Snoop Dogg talks exclusively about how Pac was upset at him before he died for co-signning Biggie. Snoop said that he and Biggie were friends before he and Tupac. For those of you that don't know, Biggie used a snoop record on the intro to "Ready To Die" and on the 1st song on "Life After Death", "Somebody's got to die", Biggie opens the song with "Trying to sell records like Snoop". LOL @ a Westcoast Legend and one of Pac's boys Co-signing Biggie's greatness. Snoop even admits that Biggie killed it on the subliminal tip which finally says what we all knew, "Long Kiss Goodnight" was definitley 100% a Pac and Suge diss. Just watch the interview:


    2pac-tupac-amaru-shakur-23-snoop3.jpg


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-uUaMZZHOg

    (Snoop Dogg admits Biggie was one of the ILLest EVER)
    DMTxTHC
  • StewStew HTTR Posts: 33,208 Regulator
    edited February 2010
    Thats fine and all but Pac was still better overall and Snoop will more then likely tell you that too if asked.
  • Focal PointFocal Point Sa - Kem is my name... Maktub Posts: 13,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    When it came to the technical aspect of rapping (what ya call being lyrical)... Biggie way ahead of Pac.
  • G.R.I.P. Money $$$G.R.I.P. Money $$$ Posts: 18,939 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    that doesnt necessarily make biggie better than pac..even tho i have biggie 1 spot ahead of pac on the goat list...
  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    But I don't like this opinion just cause it's someone from the West supporting Big's Legacy but the fact that Snoop was actually close with Pac and he was trying to tell Pac to sqaush the B.S. and stop beefing with Biggie and Puffy. There is this interview with Pac and Snoop at the MTV awards and Snoop clearly looked uncomfortable when Pac was talking trash to the reporter. Pac noticed Snoop's body lanuage and toned it down. This was one of the last interviews Pac did before he died. This is why I laugh when dudes act like "Hit Em Up" was something Biggie couldn't recover from. Everyone in Hip Hop knew, if Biggie wanted to, he would of gotten Pac and he damn sure would of bodied every memeber of the Outlaws Lyrically. Even as a Big Biggie fan, I had now Idea Snoop was in the studio while Biggie recorded "Life After Death", that was news to me.

    Snoop: "Cause the n!gga had skills, if he wanted to shoot back some SUPER GANGSTA Sh!t, he would of"
  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    Who cares?


    Man Snoop is a Hip Hop Legend and his opinion on the matter is very valid. He lived the westcoast and he also had love on the East. Eastcoast birthed Hip Hop and even though the West produced different kind of music, Snoop always had love on the east cause of his flow. Say what you want about Snoop, he has one of the greatest flows of all time. I think most rap fans feel this way anyway. Pac didn't want Biggie to make his version of "Hit Em Up". "Long Kiss Goodnight' was brutal lyrically and to me it was censored cause of Pac's untimely death. If Pac would of kept pushing the issue, Biggie would of gotten him. I also believe dispite the beef, Pac understood Biggie was dope and he knew deep down inside Big was extremely talented.
  • JokerKingJokerKing She call me Mr. Boombastic say me fantastic, touch me in me back she say I'm Mr. Ro...mantic Watching Jimmy Fallon With Barbara GordonPosts: 23,857 Regulator
    edited February 2010
    Biggie would have ate 2pac for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. pac's lyrics were no where close to being on BIG's level. but musically, pac was more gifted by a half a nudge. But BIG and pac in a battle, thats a first round KO for BIG
  • maximus prememaximus preme Posts: 1,995
    edited February 2010
  • jrod44jrod44 Posts: 3,446
    edited February 2010
    Biggie couldnt do anything lyrically to hurt Pac. Pac used to put the dude on not vice versa. Copied his style, slept on his couch, 5 shots couldnt stop him he took it and smiled, what was left for Biggie?

    As far as Snoop, well I personally think Tha Doggfather had just as many subliminals as Life After Death, I remember listening to it, and thinking Snoop was shitting on Pac.
  • You MadYou Mad Posts: 234
    edited February 2010
    Lyrically, yes, Biggie could have easily ripped Pac. That's not saying that Pac didn't have more shit on BIG though.
  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    Biggie would have ate 2pac for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. pac's lyrics were no where close to being on BIG's level. but musically, pac was more gifted by a half a nudge. But BIG and pac in a battle, thats a first round KO for BIG


    I think they were neck and neck as complete artist. Pac has the edge in subject matter but they are both even as far as song making ability, hooks. Big had the edge Lyrically and Storytelling wise because he was more visual than Pac but Pac was still a very good storyteller. They both could convey strong emotion through their records. To Me I love listening to all their callabos cause it was a Young Biggie who just got into the game and Pac after releasing a couple albums. Here are the 5 Callabo's Biggie and Pac did while alive:


    2pac-tupac-amaru-shakur-10-biggie.jpg


    "2 NOTORIOUS FOR HIP HOP"


    1993:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6To1qD8TCTg

    "House of Pain" - The Notorious B.I.G. featuring Tupac and Stretch (This song was an outtake from Ready To Die that Puffy admitted leaving off cause he felt the song didn't fit the vibe of the album. Both Biggie and Pac were recording albums at the time. All 3 members on the song have been murdered. This track showed early how versitle Biggie was as it's a Westcoast beat that he still ripped on)


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y-xMLLZaKE

    Spike Lee Freestyle Tupac & Biggie - The Legendary filmmaker himself Spike Lee had the camera on Pac and Biggie after a show. Pac and Biggie were chilling, smoking and drinking and then break out into a freestyle battle. Both verses would be heard on later recordings but at this time they were both freestyles. Pac even meantions Spike Lee in his rhymes. This video shows a strong contrast between both artist. Pac even says in his rhyme "To My N!gga B.I. to the G beside me"


    1994:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3wgLAQJw60

    "Running from the Police" Tupac featuring Outlaws, Notorious B.I.G., Stretch and Buju Baton - After Biggie had planned to put Pac on his debut album, Pac retured to the favor as this Classic under cut was to be featured on either "Me against the world" or "Thug Life" album. The Beef squashed any attempt at that.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZErbKzMGfM0

    "Let's Get It On" - Eddie F and the Untouchables featuring Tupac, The Notorious B.I.G. and Heavy D - This is another slept on gem that Pac and Biggie recorded together before the beef.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfUQV7UD5fY

    Madison Square Garden Freestyle - Tupac, The Notorious B.I.G., Big Daddy Kane, Big Scoop and Shyhiem - This Legendary freestyle was voted as one of the greatest performances in Madison Square Garden History as a Young Biggie and Pac go toe to toe in front of a live New York audience while both outshined a Rap Legend in Big Daddy Kane.



    3 Songs, 2 Freestyles. Biggie had the edge in basically all of them lyrically though I love Pac's verses on "Running" and "Let's get it on".
  • blackrainblackrain Posts: 18,321 Regulator
    edited February 2010
    Outside of a few songs I dont hear this broad subject matter people say Biggie covered...his music was pretty much drug dealing talk, big money talk, and songs for ladies...all of the shit people hate rappers nowadays for doing...he had some interospective songs but not many...and I wish he would've made more because "Everyday Struggle" is one of my top 10 favorite songs from any genre of music that I've ever heard in my life and Im not even that much of a Biggie fan
  • rusty shacklefordrusty shackleford Posts: 1,730
    edited February 2010
    (Snoop Dogg admits Biggie was one of the ILLest EVER)
    ^^Proof that he aint lost his mind.. Big could rap circles around the dude while rollin' a blunt & thinkin' up a new rhyme @ the same time.. Pac & everyone around him knew it.. Hell, Pac couldn't even keep from contridicting his self on his own shit.. If he wanted to actually test his skill against another rapper.. Sicking to his level of verbal ability woulda meant takin' aim @ Onyx or some shit.


    Disclaimer: This isn't to take away from pac as an artist.. But come on folks, we're talkin' about hiphop here.. Not a poetry slam.
  • Punisher__Punisher__ Posts: 3,031
    edited February 2010
    There's no way in hell Biggie would've ripped Pac. No way at all.

    Saying Biggie would've ripped Pac, makes it seem like Pac would've stood no chance...and that's not being realistic.

    Biggie grew up on that battle tip, it was a part of his niche. Pac was a more subdued lyricist, poet. Two completely different types of emcees.

    Pac, in my opinion, being the more poetic of the two, was more effective with words, hence why he's more lauded.

    I think he would've won against Biggie, regardless.
    international
  • illogicsillogics Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    Biggie grew up on that battle tip, it was a part of his niche. Pac was a more subdued lyricist, poet. Two completely different types of emcees.

    This sentence right here proves that you don't even believe yourself.
  • Focal PointFocal Point Sa - Kem is my name... Maktub Posts: 13,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    There's no way in hell Biggie would've ripped Pac. No way at all.

    Saying Biggie would've ripped Pac, makes it seem like Pac would've stood no chance...and that's not being realistic.

    Biggie grew up on that battle tip, it was a part of his niche. Pac was a more subdued lyricist, poet. Two completely different types of emcees.

    Pac, in my opinion, being the more poetic of the two, was more effective with words, hence why he's more lauded.

    I think he would've won against Biggie, regardless.

    put that bottle and blunt down....
  • rusty shacklefordrusty shackleford Posts: 1,730
    edited February 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    Outside of a few songs I dont hear this broad subject matter people say Biggie covered...his music was pretty much drug dealing talk, big money talk, and songs for ladies...all of the shit people hate rappers nowadays for doing...
    that's why he's considered the best by more than a few people.. because real life drug dealers to this day can't express theirselves with the fluidity that he did.. gangsta rap died when he did. end of story.. :(
  • Punisher__Punisher__ Posts: 3,031
    edited February 2010
  • Focal PointFocal Point Sa - Kem is my name... Maktub Posts: 13,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
  • blackrainblackrain Posts: 18,321 Regulator
    edited February 2010
    that's why he's considered the best by more than a few people.. because real life drug dealers to this day can't express theirselves with the fluidity that he did.. gangsta rap died when he did. end of story.. :(

    yeah cuz no good gangsta rap has come out since 1997...none at all...yall need to stop with this "hip hop died" or "insert this here is dead" stuff...nothing in hip-hop is dead and if it was then it was weak as fuck to die so easily
  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    Outside of a few songs I dont hear this broad subject matter people say Biggie covered...his music was pretty much drug dealing talk, big money talk, and songs for ladies...all of the shit people hate rappers nowadays for doing...he had some interospective songs but not many...and I wish he would've made more because "Everyday Struggle" is one of my top 10 favorite songs from any genre of music that I've ever heard in my life and Im not even that much of a Biggie fan


    Here's the thing about Biggie's subject matter. He wasn't trying to educate or school anyone. He was simply trying to paint pictures for you to visualize his words. But within the rhymes was very deep, emotional and spirital lyrics. Take the song you mention, "Everyday Struggle". Yes at its core it's a song about a Drug Dealers life and what happens when you live that lifestyle but the lyrics talk about a deeper meaning like why Big was selling drugs in the first place. To feed his family. "Ready To Die" is one of the most conscience albums in Hip Hop History, that's why I laugh when people say Biggie wasn't deep. That album captured the black inner city experience to a tee. How many people are living the "Everyday Struggle"? many. But "Juicy" and "Sky's the Limit" are Biggie's "Emotional" records. Again he was only 24. I believe as Big would of gotten older, he would of gotten more politically.

    Pac was raised by a Black Panther, he was more socially consious than Big because of his upbringing. Biggie conisdered himself a flimmaker on wax which is why he called himself "Biggie Smalls and Frank White" both names taken from movies. As well as "Notorious" which Biggie said he got that name from a Hitchcock flim. Big also called himself the "Hitchcock of Hip Hop". Big made movies on wax. I just wish we got a chance to see those great lyrics, flow and delievery on more deeper subjects but again he was only 24.
  • R.D.R.D. Posts: 11,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    I think they were neck and neck as complete artist. Pac has the edge in subject matter but they are both even as far as song making ability, hooks. Big had the edge Lyrically and Storytelling wise because he was more visual than Pac but Pac was still a very good storyteller. They both could convey strong emotion through their records. To Me I love listening to all their callabos cause it was a Young Biggie who just got into the game and Pac after releasing a couple albums. Here are the 5 Callabo's Biggie and Pac did while alive:


    .

    Pac was far better at storytelling and its not even close...Stop that
  • illogicsillogics Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    "Ready To Die" is one of the most conscience albums in Hip Hop History

    You're putting too much on it. WAY too much.
  • blackrainblackrain Posts: 18,321 Regulator
    edited February 2010
    Here's the thing about Biggie's subject matter. He wasn't trying to educate or school anyone. He was simply trying to paint pictures for you to visualize his words. But within the rhymes was very deep, emotional and spirital lyrics. Take the song you mention, "Everyday Struggle". Yes at its core it's a song about a Drug Dealers life and what happens when you live that lifestyle but the lyrics talk about a deeper meaning like why Big was selling drugs in the first place. To feed his family. "Ready To Die" is one of the most conscience albums in Hip Hop History, that's why I laugh when people say Biggie wasn't deep. That album captured the black inner city experience to a tee. How many people are living the "Everyday Struggle"? many. But "Juicy" and "Sky's the Limit" are Biggie's "Emotional" records. Again he was only 24. I believe as Big would of gotten older, he would of gotten more politically.

    Pac was raised by a Black Panther, he was more socially consious than Big because of his upbringing. Biggie conisdered himself a flimmaker on wax which is why he called himself "Biggie Smalls and Frank White" both names taken from movies. As well as "Notorious" which Biggie said he got that name from a Hitchcock flim. Big also called himself the "Hitchcock of Hip Hop". Big made movies on wax. I just wish we got a chance to see those great lyrics, flow and delievery on more deeper subjects but again he was only 24.

    I agree that had Biggie not been killed with his lyrical skill and just simply learning more about the world his music most likely would've been nuts...but as far as the music he made while he was here yeah it's good but there are very few Biggie songs where I've heard them and just been in awe of what he's said on the track...Everyday Struggle, Sky's The Limit, etc...Im not sayin Biggie should've ONLY made songs like this but Im sayin that in terms of topic matter Biggie was no different than what people now criticize as being the "death" of hip-hop...he was about the flash/bragging about money aspect as much as any other rapper...and if that movie about him realy was accurate with all that shit goin on in his life he could've found more to rap about than drugs and murdering the Virgin Mary...and that's why I think so many more people relate to Pac than Biggie...everybody ain't out on the streets hustling, the average person in or out the hood isn't selling drugs so not everybody can relate to those stories...Pac was good at taking everyday things and making songs about them...Biggie was good at taking street things and making songs about them only problem is the majority of people don't live their lives in the streets or partying driving Benz to every party in NYC so alot of people either can't relate or simply get tired of hearing that many songs about drug dealing or partyin all the time
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