Why is Ronald Reagan so celebrated in American history? I don't get it

kingblaze84kingblaze84 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 2011 in The Social Lounge
He was a racist who described Nelson Mandela's freedom fighting group as a bunch of terrorists. When white racists in apartheid South Africa were clubbing, assassinating, and murdering fighters of apartheid, Reagan gave MONEY and MILITARY SUPPORT to the apartheid regime. He also helped increase homelessness by lowering aid to subsidized and affordable housing, despite increasing the budgets of the military. Here is some past info on Reagan...........

https://www.pacifica.org/programs/dn/040611.html

Allied with Apartheid: Reagan Supported Racist South African Gvt

Throughout his presidency, Reagan supported the apartheid government in South Africa and even labeled Nelson Mandela's African National Congress a notorious terrorist organization. We speak with South African activist Father Michael Lapsley who lost his hands, one eye and was burned severely in an assassination attempt under the De Klerk government.

Former South African President Nelson Mandela recently announced that he was retiring from public life. And Mandela will not be among the foreign dignitaries attending services for Ronald Reagan. After all, Mandela was languishing in a South African prison throughout the duration of Reagan's presidency. But this history has been effectively re-written in the US. The dominant view is that the US was on the right side in South Africa, that it opposed apartheid. But nothing could be further from the truth, particularly when Reagan was president. Reagan labeled Mandela's African National Congress a notorious terrorist organization, while continuing Washington's support for the apartheid regime. In 1981, Reagan explained to CBS that he was loyal to the South African regime because it was "a country that has stood by us in every war we've ever fought, a country that, strategically, is essential to the free world in its production of minerals."

But even as the majority of the American people came to oppose South Africa's apartheid regime, Reagan stood by his friend. African American leaders and organizations pressured Congress to take action and ultimately it passed sanctions against South Africa. True to form, Reagan vetoed the bill. But to Reagan's shame, Congress overrode the veto. Today, we are going to look at Reagan's support for apartheid South Africa with one of the victim's of that regime-Father Michael Lapsley. In 1990, three months after the release of Nelson Mandela, the De Klerk Government sent Father Lapsley a package containing two magazines. Inside one of them was a highly sophisticated bomb. When Lapsley opened the magazine, the explosion brought down ceilings in the house and blew a hole in the floors and shattered windows. It also blew off both of the priest's hands, blew out one of his eyes and burned him severely. He flew in from South Africa last night and now joins us in our firehouse studio.
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  • kingblaze84kingblaze84 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    Reagan and the Homeless Epidemic in America

    Reagan's budget cuts and overhaul of tax codes led to an explosion of homelessness in the U.S. during his 8 years in power. We speak with Carol Fennelly, a leading activist on homeless issues during the Reagan presidency.

    Throughout the week, Ronald Reagan has been praised almost non-stop on television, in newspapers and in magazines. Politicians and pundits from both establishment political parties have been practically falling over each other to heap praise on Reagan. And as he is glorified for what are termed his accomplishments and legacy, there is one term that was rose to prominence during Reagan's time in power that is seldom mentioned. That is "homelessness."

    In fact many homeless rights activists say the single most devastating thing Reagan did to create homelessness was when he cut the budget for the Department of Housing and Urban Development by three-quarters, from $32 billion in 1981 to $7.5 billion by 1988. The department was the main governmental supporter of subsidized housing for the poor. Add this to Reagan's overhaul of tax codes to reduce incentives for private developers to create low-income homes and you had a major crisis for low-income families and individuals. Under Reagan, the number of people living beneath the federal poverty line rose from 24.5 million in 1978 to 32.5 million in 1988.

    And the number of homeless people went from something so little it wasn't even written about widely in the late 1970s to more than 2 million when Reagan left office. But as Reagan proudly declared that the number of homeless shelters had increased significantly during his presidency, the homeless epidemic did not go ignored by everyone, especially not in Reagan's back yard in Washington DC. Homeless rights activist Mitch Snyder and a dedicated group of homeless people and activists waged a many year campaign to win rights for people forced to live on the streets. Ultimately, they formed a movement based at what came to be known as the Community for Creative Non-Violence or CCNV. We are joined now by one of the people who was a leader of the homeless rights movement at CCNV during the Reagan years.

    * Carol Fennelly, was a leading activist on homeless issues during the Reagan presidency. Along with Mitch Snyder, she was instrumental in establishing the Community for Creative Non-Violence in Washington DC. She is currently the Director of Hope House in Washington.

    ----So yeah, why the fuck do white people love Reagan so much? The fact Reagan could do all this shit and still be celebrated with US carriers being named in HIS name and him having his own library and god knows how many other objects in the USA tells me everything I need to know about the extreme evil of white people. I could be wrong though....so why is Reagan so celebrated here? Serious replies only.
    And_So_It_Burns
  • ChikeChike Posts: 2,702
    edited January 2011
    Because he was a U.S. President... simple. How can you be president of America and be evil at the same time. Anything he has done was absolutely 100% justified. You know that.
  • kingblaze84kingblaze84 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    Chike wrote: »
    Because he was a U.S. President... simple. How can you be president of America and be evil at the same time. Anything he has done was absolutely 100% justified. You know that.

    You're right. I was very naive creating this thread. I forgot how America puts slave owners and genocidal maniacs like Andrew Jackson, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson on our dollars bills, on top of giving them tons of other honors. We also celebrate Christopher Columbus day, despite the fact it offends Native Americans all throughout the Americas, and we put Confederate soldiers on a pedestal all over the South.

    I forgot that in America, the more fucked up and evil you are, the more likely one is going to be celebrated. I FORGOT!!!!!!! Silly me.
  • kingblaze84kingblaze84 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    heyslick wrote: »
    IMO


    Why do some blame the problems on just one politician. NOW we have this homeless man with golden voice and it's quite obvious he has the ability to take care of himself. BUT he didn't so when its all said and done who's fault is it? Read some of info below and tell me where the underlying factors aren't relevant in the scheme of things. I feel so many folks today wanna play the blame game and that game is and really has cost this nation so much.

    http://www.ehow.com/about_4587661_what-leading-causes-homelessness.html

    So you gonna answer the question or not???? Why do white people worship Ronald Reagan, the apartheid loving racist clown who lost his godamn mind toward the end of his presidency?
  • AlkindusAlkindus Posts: 1,677
    edited January 2011
    Yeah cause he was president lmao, name me one president that didn't support some fucked up/shady regime(of any country).

    look, you probably got tired of hearing this a long time ago, but the foreign policy of the US has always been disrespectfull towards human rights. Whether it was under Clinton, Reagan, Bush or now under Obama. It has always been full of shit. If Obama would have been president back than, he would also have supported the South African aparthied regime because a president(just like most if not all the other countries) is nothing but a lobbyist.

    I'm not saying it's cool,shit is pathetic. We need to have transparancy in the decision making, all the important issues are handled behind closed doors and are lied about, it's not populair to say they are raising certain costs of goods because some multinational company lobbied for that cause, but that is whats happening all the time lol
    And_So_It_Burns
  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 46,775 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    Just say no!

    and they are white their heros never have flaws........ he wasnt the teflon president for nothing.
  • ThePayPalPimp.ThePayPalPimp. A Mad Scientist. Posts: 8,260 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
  • kingblaze84kingblaze84 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/06/11/1086749892845.html

    The Dark Side of Ronald Reagan


    June 12, 2004

    You may not have read it this week, but this American hero was an apologist for apartheid, writes Derrick Jackson.

    President Bush proclaimed this week: "Ronald Reagan believed that God takes the side of justice and that America has a special calling to oppose tyranny and defend freedom." In the first three days of news reports on the death of the former US president, not a single major American newspaper, television station, or politician dared to exhume the following counterpoint to the Reagan's legacy: "Immoral, evil, and totally un-Christian."

    These were the words of Bishop Desmond Tutu, spoken on Capitol Hill at a US committee hearing in late 1984. It was just after Reagan's easy re-election. Tutu had just been awarded the Nobel peace prize for his non-violent struggle against apartheid in South Africa. Throughout the United States, a rising number of Americans were calling for American companies to stop doing business there.

    Reagan ignored them. The president of so-called sunny optimism attempted to blind Americans with his policy of "constructive engagement" with the white minority regime in Pretoria. All constructive engagement did was give the white minority more time to mow down the black majority in the streets and keep dreamers of democracy, such as Nelson Mandela, behind bars.

    In the weeks leading up to his appearance on Capitol Hill, Tutu said in speeches that it seemed that the Reagan White House saw "blacks as expendable" in South Africa. The white government forced black people from prized lands and into horrid townships. Migratory labour laws split families for 11 months at a time. Education was gutted for black children. There was virtually no due process for black defendants. Tutu said it was "reminiscent of Hitler's Aryan madness". Tutu declared that "constructive engagement is an abomination, an unmitigated disaster".

    On Capitol Hill, Tutu became a public relations disaster for Reagan. Tutu started off the hearing by saying apartheid itself "is evil, is immoral, is un-Christian . . ." I was there, and all breathing stopped.

    Tutu continued: "In my view, the Reagan administration's support and collaboration with it is equally immoral, evil, and totally un-Christian . . . You are either for or against apartheid and not by rhetoric. You are either in favour of evil or you are in favour of good. You are either on the side of the oppressed or on the side of the oppressor. You can't be neutral."

    Tutu received an unprecedented standing ovation by the committee. Even Reagan's Republican allies told the South African embassy they would reluctantly support sanctions if Pretoria did not move to end apartheid.

    Reagan was not moved. Over the remainder of his presidency, at least 3000 people would die, mostly at the hands of the South African police and military. Another 20,000, including 6000 children, according to one estimate by a human rights group, would be arrested under "state of emergency" decrees.

    Yet Reagan had the gall to say in 1985 that the "reformist administration" of South Africa had "eliminated the segregation that we once had in our own country". In 1986, Reagan gave a speech where he said Mandela should be released but denounced sanctions with crocodile tears, claiming that they would hurt black workers, who were already ridiculously impoverished.

    Reagan's go-slow speech was denounced by Tutu, who said: "I found it quite nauseating. I think the West, for my part, can go to hell . . . Your president is the pits as far as blacks are concerned. He sits there like the great, big white chief of old."

    Later in 1986, Reagan made his greatest demonstration yet that black bodies were "expendable". Congress had finally had enough of the carnage to vote for limited sanctions. Reagan vetoed them. Congress overrode the veto. Reagan proceeded to put no muscle behind the sanctions. Mandela remained in jail and at least 2000 political prisoners remained detained without trial.

    In 1987, Reagan published a report that said additional sanctions "would not be helpful". The gleeful South African foreign minister, Roelof Botha, said Reagan "and his administration have an understanding of the reality of South Africa".

    Reagan's and Botha's "reality" was rendered a fantasy by the force of world opinion and a more enlightened leadership inside South Africa.

    Only a year after Reagan left office, Mandela was released. One can only wonder how much sooner he would have been released and how many lives would have been saved had Reagan not behaved like the white chief of old.

    President Bush this week said Reagan believed God was on the side of justice. On South Africa, Reagan was on the side of one of the most demonic governments on the face of the earth. He chose to assist tyranny and ignore brutality.

    Ronald Reagan's death has been followed by relentless descriptions of him as a president of sunny optimism. On South Africa he was no sunshine. He was the cloud who dimmed the skies as apartheid rained death upon black people.
  • kingblaze84kingblaze84 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    heyslick wrote: »
    What is your point? you claim Reagan did SO many bad things, and he caused people to be homeless and then you wanna know why people worship him....WTF is your point? BTW President Obama is fucking shit-UP big time & why does he keep perpetuating these senseless conflicts? WT fuck is Obama spending so much of the taxpayers monies,and those of future generations? I'm white and I DON'T worship former President 'jelly bean eating' Reagan.

    We can talk about Obama at a later time, and I've criticized him many times as everyone here knows. Let's stick to the topic shall we?

    Why do so many white people worship and adore Reagan? He supported apartheid in South Africa and still won in a record landslide in 1984........what's up with that?

    Did the extreme evil of white people show itself, or did the extreme evil of white people show itself? I truly want to know.
  • kingblaze84kingblaze84 Posts: 8,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    I'm gonna play some NBA 2k11, I hope I get some more solid answers here soon. Heyslick, step your answering game up.
  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 46,775 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    I'm gonna play some NBA 2k11, I hope I get some more solid answers here soon. Heyslick, step your answering game up.
    HeySlick never answers a question directly.. If you asked him what time it was you might get 3 paragraphs of jibberish
  • gum989gum989 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
  • nujerz84nujerz84 Posts: 11,944 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    Conservatives place Regan on a throne...when it comes to Regan and minorities especially black folks in the US he was one of the worst.
  • babyfakmageeaxsbabyfakmageeaxs Posts: 297
    edited January 2011
    heyslick wrote: »
    top ten greatest things ronald reagan did for the usa

    10. Invasion of grenada - ronald reagan kicked commie butt in grenada and saved hundreds of american medical students in the process. And it only took a couple of days!!!

    9. Firing the patco workers - when air traffic controllers put the nation's airline flights at risk by whining for more money and better working conditions, ronald reagan, feeling their pain, relieved them of it by firing them.

    8. "reaganomics" - we could also call this "de-socialization" but what it amounted to was less government, tax cuts for those who deserved them, and an economic doctrine that taught that the more money the rich have, the more investing they do and it 'trickles down' to the poor. It worked just fine as long as the poor were, like, willing to actually work.

    7. Kicked john hinckley's ass by living despite the bullets hinckley pumped into him. It was a sad day for liberals, communists, and other enemies of america when he didn't die on the operating table.

    6. Destroyed the soviet union - ronald reagan put the fear of god into the godless commies by building up our superior nuclear capabilities and making them crap their khakis in terror. By the time they were done playing catchup their economy was destroyed and russian civilians had finally begun to grasp the idea that communism sucks.

    5. Cutting the funding for socialist programs. If ronald reagan hadn't made the effort to cut useless social programs for lazy-ass americans like job training, food stamps, medicaid, and welfare.

    4. War on drugs - smoking dope and shooting up heroin became a lot less cool under ronald reagan than it did under kennedy or johnson, both of whom should have just gone off with jerry rubin & abbie hoffman and smoked dope for the rest of their lives and left the white house to grownups.

    3. Bombing libya after the west german disco bombing - who the hell would be against going after gaddafi when he killed over a hundred people, including 40 americans? Liberals, that's who!!!

    2. Tried to stop the sandanistas in nicaragua despite congress' meddling with that stupid, taxpayer money-wasting trial during which a brave (and handsome!) ollie north was pilloried for trying to save america from soul-destroying communism.
    1. Brought respectability back to the us when the american hostages in iran, who rotted in hell under the carter administration, were released during ronald reagan's inauguration speech. Did those bastard iranians ever mess with us again??? They did not!

    you cant possibly be serious
  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 46,775 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
  • Maximus RexMaximus Rex Posts: 3,383 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    You're right. I was very naive creating this thread. I forgot how America puts slave owners and genocidal maniacs like Andrew Jackson, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson on our dollars bills, on top of giving them tons of other honors. We also celebrate Christopher Columbus day, despite the fact it offends Native Americans all throughout the Americas, and we put Confederate soldiers on a pedestal all over the South.

    I forgot that in America, the more fucked up and evil you are, the more likely one is going to be celebrated. I FORGOT!!!!!!! Silly me.

    So when are are you moving? Why is it that same same niggas that claim America is this fucked up degenerate country, are the same same niggas that aren't trying to leave here? Despite the Founding Fathers attitudes towards race and slavery they developed system of government that's the envy of the world. It was through this system of government that gave way to the Civil Rights Movement. Slavery was a hotly contested issue during the Constitutional Convention and some of the Founders wanted it abolished.

    People (especially perfidious nergos,) always want to disparage the Founders of this nation, but look past the the short comings of other people. Dr. King fucked around on his wife. Malcolm was a dope fiend and pretty criminal, but we celebrate them for the over good they did for humanity.

    Not excusing the fact they were slave owners and praticed a policy of genocide against the Indians, but I think what the Founders set up and what it eventually became far out ways the wrong they did.
  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 46,775 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    heyslick wrote: »
    I never said I was.....I was just searching the web and found this info. Some of those things I agree with others I don't. Are you black? if you are do agree with every single thing President Obama is doing and if so is it because hes black? Do you think its the government job to take care of its citizens from cradle to grave?


    There you go with your generalizing.. i dotn know anyone black that agrees with everything that Obama does.. shit nowadays.. anything..

    You are sticking to the script of bigoted white people..

    Walt...(Gran Torino)
  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 46,775 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    So when are are you moving? Why is it that same same niggas that claim America is this fucked up degenerate country, are the same same niggas that aren't trying to leave here? Despite the Founding Fathers attitudes towards race and slavery they developed system of government that's the envy of the world. It was through this system of government that gave way to the Civil Rights Movement. Slavery was a hotly contested issue during the Constitutional Convention and some of the Founders wanted it abolished.

    People (especially perfidious nergos,) always want to disparage the Founders of this nation, but look past the the short comings of other people. Dr. King fucked around on his wife. Malcolm was a dope fiend and pretty criminal, but we celebrate them for the over good they did for humanity.

    Not excusing the fact they were slave owners and praticed a policy of genocide against the Indians, but I think what the Founders set up and what it eventually became far out ways the wrong they did.


    Crimes against society/humanity > adultery/ petty crime..

    Dont shine shoes all your life fam.


    and the evolution is not credit to the founders.. it "TIME".. and people fighting for the "more perfect" United States
  • ChikeChike Posts: 2,702
    edited January 2011
    You're right. I was very naive creating this thread. I forgot how America puts slave owners and genocidal maniacs like Andrew Jackson, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson on our dollars bills, on top of giving them tons of other honors. We also celebrate Christopher Columbus day, despite the fact it offends Native Americans all throughout the Americas, and we put Confederate soldiers on a pedestal all over the South.

    I forgot that in America, the more fucked up and evil you are, the more likely one is going to be celebrated. I FORGOT!!!!!!! Silly me.



    That's the spirit!! Home of the free (slave labor) and Brave (slave masters)!
  • Sh0tSh0t Posts: 1,162
    edited January 2011
    Reagan could have been much better than he was, but he sold out when he took George HW Bush as his vice-president. That was conceding defeat to the establishment.

    Reagan gets much undeserved credit for being president during the fall of the Soviet Union. USSR was a ticking time bombing from day one, and the US did everything possible to prop it up. That it lasted 80 years was a miracle.

    Big tax cuts, that were slowly eroded. Good, with caveats.

    Hugely expanded government debt, extremely bad.

    Expanded military, very bad, especially during in era where we had no REAL enemies, nor peers. Too many hunts for new bogeymen to drag out as new Hitlers. It's embarrassing to see old news coverage about Pablo Escobar, Noriega, etc. Reagan's national security legacy erases any real or imaged good he ever did. But that was all Bush, not Reagan, for the most part. Unlike his son, the first Bush was a serious shot-caller.

    Reagan as governor was pretty bad, too. Huge tax increases, business regulation, the whole 9 yards of state-corporatism.
    Not excusing the fact they were slave owners and praticed a policy of genocide against the Indians, but I think what the Founders set up and what it eventually became far out ways the wrong they did.

    As for the Founders, it depends on which Founders you are talking about. Some WERE evil, from start to finish. Some were almost comic-book like in how good they were. A few the kind you are talking about above.

    Even if you put slavery aside, many Founders were evil and only participated in order to set themselves up as rulers. Alexander Hamilton and Robert Morris top this list.
  • Jonas.diniJonas.dini Posts: 2,507 ✭✭
    edited January 2011
    Dems should do a better job debunking the myth that dude was a great president.

    Typical Obama: praises reagan as a great president.
  • bootsy_jenkinsbootsy_jenkins Posts: 480 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2011
    Reagan was great because he was the ultimate player. I will tell you why. Dude helped pump more coke into the hood than any kingpin ever could. And to show you how clever he was, Reagan covered his tracks by having his bottom bitch go around advocating that you should "just say no to" the very shit that he was slinging! Had Reagan not done so well in his drug trade, hip hop would have never had Freeway Ricky and a host of other drug dealing murdering scum to look up too. I think all of the coke dealers and REAL niggas that love hip hop owe Reagan a debt of gratitude. Hats off to Ronald Reagan!
  • Sh0tSh0t Posts: 1,162
    edited January 2011
    Jonas.dini wrote: »
    Dems should do a better job debunking the myth that dude was a great president.

    Typical Obama: praises reagan as a great president.


    Why would he not praise Reagan? He and Reagan are more alike than different. Whatever the dems used to criticize Reagan could be turned right back around and used on them. The biggest mark against Reagan was how he expanded the national debt, something the dems have always loved to do. You see this argument used often in the form of "Your favorite president, Reagan, tripled the national debt. How come we Liberals can't do that and be praised?"

    When Reagan was running, he actually had a good bit of liberal support, especially because of his track record as gov. of California. That is not a good thing.

    The CIA/Coke thing has GHW Bush's finger prints on it.
  • Jonas.diniJonas.dini Posts: 2,507 ✭✭
    edited January 2011
    ^^^^

    None of those things are what Dems should slam Reagan for. They should slam him for the crack epidemic (whether it was more bush's doing or not) and ramping up the war on drugs, for shifting the political spectrum to the right (I know u probably think he was a marxist, but we're talking now about how the Dems should go about dissing him), for cutting social services that poor people depend on, etc.
    And they should make the point you did a few posts ago about the Cold War.

    IMO Dems should have play politics better from the jump by slamming the opposition, not praising their most hallowed leader.
  • Jonas.diniJonas.dini Posts: 2,507 ✭✭
    edited January 2011
    Sh0t wrote: »
    The biggest mark against Reagan was how he expanded the national debt

    lol at this being the biggest mark against reagan, especially from the democrat side.
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