If the Sun creates life then...

fiat_money · January 2011

anthony7q wrote: »

...BLACKROOTS SCIENCE...

Less than a credible source.

fiat_money wrote: »

...the "Black Roots Science E-Book" is bullshit.

b*braze · January 2011

IC retard: "I think..."

IC Intelligent person: *presents facts*

ICR: "Well I feel..."

ICIP: *presents more facts*

ICR: "Whatever, you're just closed minded."

anthony7q · January 2011

http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2003/november/cosmic.htm

The Dogon
In the West African country of Mali, they visited the amazing cliff dwellings of the mysterious Dogon people, a traditional farming community, renowned for their skilled craftsmen, spectacular wooden masks and intricate religious beliefs. The Dogon, who are represented by four major clans, live along the spectacular sand stone escarpment of the Bandiagara cliffs in southeastern Mali. They settled there around the fifteenth century and even today, despite the infiltration of other cultural beliefs, their religious traditions remain strong.

There they met people who still navigate by the stars and who acknowledge aspects of the sky and earth in their daily lives, songs, dances and ceremonies. What makes certain parts of Africa extra special, says Ann Rogers, is the absence of light and air pollution. People still rely on campfires, oil lamps or moonlight as a source of nocturnal illumination. At full moon, people can hunt or travel or have village dances - their world is still defined by the power and natural rhythm of the cosmos. Their knowledge of the sky is the result of hundreds of years of naked-eye observations.

In Namibia

Today, western clothing is worn in combination with more traditional apparel and watches and radios have become a link with the world beyond, but some of the elderly hunters who live in more remote villages still rely on the position of the Sun to give them a sense of time - they observe the shadows cast by the Sun and still count the days by the phases of the Moon. They pay particular attention to the Milky Way: they call it the Spine of the Night and observe three different positions during the course of the night. It tells them about time and the changing seasons.

anthony7q · January 2011

Whoomp!! There It Is!!!

The Ancient Astronomers of Timbuktu

soul rattler · January 2011

^^^
irrelevent posting nigga post

Sovo_Nah · January 2011

I read the first post and havent read the rest because i would forget what i was gonna say but i will read them when im done typing this.

The sun is hot. that hotness is energy. that energy makes things move. that movement is growth. that growth is life.

when in doubt, fry an egg. I cant be anymore simple than that.

CrownChakra · January 2011

KTULU IS BACK wrote: »

wtf are you talking about?

we have more knowledge about the universe than anybody in the past did

You saying we have more knowledge period or we discovered alot about the universe we dont know shit about?

Or Both?

perspective@100 · January 2011

b*braze wrote: »

IC poster: "I think therefore I am"

IC know it all person: *presents(bullshit) facts*

ICP: "Well I feel you believe anything"

ICKIAP: *presents more(bullshit) facts*

ICP: "you're just closed minded blind and love to be spoon fed BS."

..............................................

perspective@100 · January 2011

fiat_money wrote: »

The reason it is debated as to whether viruses constitute life or not, is because they satisfy some of the requirements for something to be considered "alive"; the Sun however, does not.

Its debated because they have no idea when something is "Alive". The Suns energy is the basis of all life thats not only meeting the requirement its the fucking gold standard. The rules are constantly changing and what they thought was"Fact" was not. Period. That is the major flaw of science, it can be disproven and re-written as soon as something does not apply. These so called requirements of life are just classifications to put things in perspective. These terms for the requirements are all scientific terms that are used for classification purposes and like I said before my thoughts are not governed by modern science which is not the "LAW" to begin with when it comes to nature. Just because it makes sense and many people have tested it and somewhere it was written down as "FACT" does not mean I have to believe it. Life comes from no life? If thats the thought process you choose to stand behind so be it. Sun comes from no sun and matter comes from no matter? Please, these things are obviously said because they are scared to say " I dont Know"...

fiat_money wrote: »

Supposing the term "organism" applied to the underlined, terms like "organism" or "alive" would hold no significance, since it would the standard state of being; they'd merely be poor synonyms for "matter".

Once again your proving my point. Being alive is more than what we can comprehend and thats why its been flooded with all kind of requirements and specific criteria that need be satisfied. First the organism has to have this and that, then it has to reproduce, then it has to respond to its environment? Just admit they dont know what the hell life really is and stop pulling shit out their ass! The word Alive being nullified and holding no significance does not bother me one bit, but in todays society we cant have that. We have to have a definition even if its made up bologna. There has to be a definitive answer even if we dont have one we will just say we do and people will accept it because others have tested things and reported data that must meet certain requirements and these requirements apply to "almost" everything so it will be widely accepted. What happens when something does not meet all the requirements but some? No, we dont change the meaning or definition of being alive we just say enough requirments were met so its partially alive... hahahaha-please I see bulshit I call bullshit!

fiat_money wrote: »

Not quite, the reason things determined or discovered by using the scientific method have influence is because they are replicable/observable/calculable by others. Scientific theories and even laws aren't just accepted at "face value", they are tested repeatedly by others to further substantiate or disprove them. Even I've observed the values of gravity to be correct by using an Atwood machine, therefore if someone told me the acceleration due to gravity at the surface of the Earth was 49m/s^2, I wouldn't believe them, regardless their education. So any "influence" isn't there simply because an individual states something, but because many verified the same thing...

I'm not influenced at all about what they say life is. All the test in the world can be done and all the criteria can be classified, and all that means to me is they were digging and digging but they came up with just enough bullshit to sound good because here we are in this day and age still finding random things that could be alive based on criteria from this guy but they are not alive based on criteria from that guy. Awareness and concsiousness can be explained scientifically but ask those same scientist where your awareness and concsious goes when you die and they will draw blanks across the board. These are the same people you put your trust in to tell you what life or being alive is? Many verify this and many verify that. Yup, like I said before- The earth was once "verified" as flat. The Earth was once "verified" as the center of our solar system. At least these were simple. You need a damn check list to verify something being alive, lol just laughable I swear. This same science would probably "verify" rocks being able to reproduce. One rock melts turns to lava, but dries as two rocks by golly the rock has met reproduction requirements its now a "fact", everyone will belive it because we will state it with many people testing data.... BS

perspective@100 · January 2011

soul rattler wrote: »

So basically you made a thread about some shit you don't know anything about and you won't let a pesky little thing like "science" stop you.

you get half a bar... Fu*k yall ni99az

JokerzWyld · January 2011

KTULU IS BACK wrote: »

No, it wouldn't. Jupiter's not the offspring of Sol. It's a collection of gases that got caught in the star's gravity.

Stars are made from a collection of gases. All that is missing is the heat to light it. Much like an egg needs the sperm to create life.

KTULU IS BACK · January 2011

JokerzWyld wrote: »

Stars are made from a collection of gases. All that is missing is the heat to light it. Much like an egg needs the sperm to create life.

the ignition happens because of the density produced by gravity

there's no life analogy at all, y'all are just new agey faggots who need to believe in magic because you're mental children

perspective@100 · January 2011

KTULU IS BACK wrote: »

the ignition happens because of the density produced by gravity

there's no life analogy at all, y'all are just new agey faggots who need to believe in magic because you're mental children

And you are a prophetic scientologist. The magic is how dumb you really are compared to how smart you think you are.

KTULU IS BACK · January 2011

Young-Ice wrote: »

ktulu doesn't believe in the metaphor because it interferes with WWE

bah gawd king!

stellar ignition is caused by the big red machine, KANE!

b*braze · January 2011

perspective@100 wrote: »

IC poster: "I think therefore I am"

IC know it all person: *presents(bullshit) facts*

ICP: "Well I feel you believe anything"

ICKIAP: *presents more(bullshit) facts*

ICP: "you're just closed minded blind and love to be spoon fed BS."

..............................................

Real original...

What makes the facts "bullshit"? Because you said so?

perspective@100 · January 2011

b*braze wrote: »

Real original...

What makes the facts "bullshit"? Because you said so?

Listen, I'm not here to argue with anyone, but I'm not here to be called a moron either. Ya'll got me fu*ked up.

You ask me what makes the facts bullshit? They are not logical. Life from no life makes no sense and criteria for life is always under scrutiny. So I ask you, why accept these "facts"? All of the responses I get are scientific. I understand science but how about people start thinking for themselves for a change. Come up with an idea. Dare to be different. Talking to people about "science" is like talking to a bunch of sheep. "Science says this, science says that" well no need for anybody to make there own conclusions lets just see what science has to say. Science is a study of trying to understand. I can try and understand myself and not be scientific. Why cant I try and understand nature and not be scientific? There are no difinitive rules in nature that says everything must be understood scientifically or it does not apply. Those rules of science are only from our society. It seems we as a society have gone from believing these rediculous stories told in the bible to being pawns for these scientific nerds who try and confuse you with enormous words and extremely complex math equations.

Sorry I just don't buy it. Ever since I was young I have always been true to myself and spoke my mind. I have come to realize people are actually not blind to the truth but they are deaf, dumb, and blind to it. Not only that, they will refuse to be subject to anything that takes them out of their comfort zone. So while you think people like me are morons or what not, how do you think I view you? (no offense) I sit back and watch a society of sheep. Shopping when the economy tells you to shop- X-mas, and other holidays. Eating foods that will kill you- the food pyramids that have been given to us over the years. Doctors who don't cure anything and perscribe medicines that do more harm than good. Politicians who are hypocrites and do nothing for the masses while blatently lying to your face. Scientist who can discover a galaxy 100 trillion years away but cant cure cancer. Wtf, If these "facts" you speak of come from these people, you can have them!

The "facts" are not bullshit because I say so. The facts are bullshit because they are not facts at all. They are collections of data with similar results. Those are "scientific facts" and yes sometimes they are wrong, and that is a "FACT".

_Ozymandias_ · January 2011

while i don't necessarily agree with the t/s. i understand what he's trying to say.

what is accepted as scientific understanding today, may not be considered scientific understanding tomorrow.

and the only way to get to truth is by first asking questions and challenging the accepted "truth". that's the whole foundation of scientific discovery.

5th grade science classes teaches that the scientifc method starts with "asking a question". we wouldn't have progressed to the understanding of the universe today if someone in the past hadn't questioned "accepted theories" or "common knowledge".

so just by opening the dialouge the t/s is furthering scientific exploration. and who knows a thousand years from now his premise may be the accepted understanding of what life is.

perspective@100 · January 2011

@_Ozymandias_

Its kind of ironic is it not?

_Ozymandias_ · January 2011

perspective@100 wrote: »

@_Ozymandias_

Its kind of ironic is it not?

very much so

fiat_money · January 2011

perspective@100 wrote: »

Its debated because they have no idea when something is "Alive"....This same science would probably "verify" rocks being able to reproduce. One rock melts turns to lava, but dries as two rocks by golly the rock has met reproduction requirements its now a "fact", everyone will belive it because we will state it with many people testing data.... BS

This is the part I like about the scientific method: What you've done is said that the previous assumptions of what constitutes life are wrong. You've also asserted that your ideas of what constitutes life are correct. The premise of your argument being that, "everything that contained or underwent a chemical/nuclear reaction" constitutes life. However, you've failed to substantiate or bolster this premise by anything other than your own conjecture; which can be applied to all matter. For this reason, your opinion is merely just that, an "opinion".

You're not the first to make baseless inferences about that which is observed, neither are you the first do disbelieve that which has been proven through the scientific method. In fact, there are many who "don't believe in" biological evolution; but that doesn't "disprove" the fact that organisms evolve.

What separates the bullshit from the plausible theories here, is the ability to support/test it. Without which, your claim that "The Sun is alive." will remain bullshit.

fiat_money · January 2011

fiat_money wrote: »

This is the part I like about the scientific method: What you've done is said that the previous assumptions of what constitutes life are wrong. You've also asserted that your ideas of what constitutes life are correct. The premise of your argument being that, "everything that contained or underwent a chemical/nuclear reaction" constitutes life. However, you've failed to substantiate or bolster this premise by anything other than your own conjecture; which can be applied to all matter. For this reason, your opinion is merely just that, an "opinion"...

Using the same flawed reasoning from which you claim "The Sun is alive", the following arguments can also be made:

If thought is based in electricity, then anything with electrical charge(s) is able to think. Thus all atoms are able to think, and everything is thinking.
If life is possible because of matter, and matter can neither be created nor destroyed; then nothing is able to die. Thus there is no such thing as "death" and nothing can die.
If emotions are caused by chemicals, then anything with chemicals has emotions. Thus all elements and chemical substances have emotions, and everything is emotional.
If sight is a result of reflection/refraction of electromagnetic radiation, then all forms of electromagnetic radiation have sight. Thus all electromagnetic radiation is able to see, and anything with electric/magnetic fields that functions in a wavelike manner is able to see.

^^All consist of the same reasoning, "If X is a result of a process/processes involving Y, then all Y are able to X.".

melanated khemist · January 2011

fiat_money wrote: »

Using the same flawed reasoning from which you claim "The Sun is alive", the following arguments can also be made:

If thought is based in electricity, then anything with electrical charge(s) is able to think. Thus all atoms are able to think, and everything is thinking.
If life is possible because of matter, and matter can neither be created nor destroyed; then nothing is able to die. Thus there is no such thing as "death" and nothing can die.
If emotions are caused by chemicals, then anything with chemicals has emotions. Thus all elements and chemical substances have emotions, and everything is emotional.
If sight is a result of reflection/refraction of electromagnetic radiation, then all forms of electromagnetic radiation have sight. Thus all electromagnetic radiation is able to see, and anything with electric/magnetic fields that functions in a wavelike manner is able to see.^^All consist of the same reasoning, "If X is a result of a process/processes involving Y, then all Y are able to X.".

if you switch think and see with consciousness, you finally will be saying something right.

perspective@100 · January 2011

fiat_money wrote: »

Using the same flawed reasoning from which you claim "The Sun is alive", the following arguments can also be made:

If thought is based in electricity, then anything with electrical charge(s) is able to think. Thus all atoms are able to think, and everything is thinking.
If life is possible because of matter, and matter can neither be created nor destroyed; then nothing is able to die. Thus there is no such thing as "death" and nothing can die.
If emotions are caused by chemicals, then anything with chemicals has emotions. Thus all elements and chemical substances have emotions, and everything is emotional.
If sight is a result of reflection/refraction of electromagnetic radiation, then all forms of electromagnetic radiation have sight. Thus all electromagnetic radiation is able to see, and anything with electric/magnetic fields that functions in a wavelike manner is able to see.

^^All consist of the same reasoning, "If X is a result of a process/processes involving Y, then all Y are able to X.".

Actually I would never say thought is based in electricity. I would say the brain uses electricity in a conduit because it is extremely fast and efficient.
I would then say anything that uses electricity will be extremely fast and efficient if controlled properly. Hmm, electric cars.

So, all atoms have an electric charge? They must be efficient in structure... This must be why matter is able to form solid structures because of the sturdiness and efficiency of the atom.

If life is possible because of the electricity that keeps matter together then death must be from the matter no longer being able to sustain an efficient eletrical charge per atom in said organism. Since energy can neither be created nor destroyed it may be possible for an organism to survive in a pure energetic form... Maybe thats a soul?

Whats an emotion? Just how you feel? Some chemicals cause you to feel a certain way. Maybe these chemicals do something to the electrical impulses and charges inside the body? Then I would look for specifically what part of the body is altered by whatever chemical and examine the electric current involved. (scientific note) When chemicals join or break down there charges often change

If sight is a result of reflection/refraction of electromagnetic then all forms of electromagnetic radiation can be seen. Somehow anyway. <Spectrums>
Thus all electromagnetic radiation is able to be seen. <observing space>

Your starting to think now, just not like me, but its a good start anyway.

perspective@100 · January 2011

fiat_money wrote: »

However, you've failed to substantiate or bolster this premise by anything other than your own conjecture; which can be applied to all matter. For this reason, your opinion is merely just that, an "opinion".

You're not the first to make baseless inferences about that which is observed, neither are you the first do disbelieve that which has been proven through the scientific method. In fact, there are many who "don't believe in" biological evolution; but that doesn't "disprove" the fact that organisms evolve.

What separates the bullshit from the plausible theories here, is the ability to support/test it. Without which, your claim that "The Sun is alive." will remain bullshit.

Where to start? First, you sound like a lawyer.(no offense) Substantiate, conjecture? I'm just saying things I think about. They have base. I observe the life force of the sun has penetrated everything on Planet Earth and went from there. As for test, I'm not a scientist so nope all I can do is think it through. As I do, I see the current science is in direct conflict with my thought process because of its classifications and "requirements" that leave too much information in question. With My thought process it all makes sense.

fiat_money · January 2011

perspective@100 wrote: »

Actually I would never say thought is based in electricity...

Just as thought is a result of electrical processes, life is a result of chemical/nuclear processes. So, if the Sun is alive because it is a result of chemical/nuclear processes and chemical/nuclear processes happen within it; then, by the same reasoning, atoms would be thinking since atoms are a result of some form of electricity and atoms have some form of electricity within them.

Your reasoning can be applied to simpler things as well: "If pork sandwiches require pork, then anything that has pork is a pork sandwich. Thus all pigs are pork sandwiches."

Just by replacing "life" with "pork sandwiches", and replacing "chemical/nuclear processes" with "pork".

The rest of your post lacks relevance, as it neither substantiates your claims/reasoning, in addition to the parts that are baseless conjecture.

melanated khemist wrote: »

if you switch think and see with consciousness, you finally will be saying something right.

^^Also baseless conjecture.

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