The Official 2pac Versus Biggie Thread...

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  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    rap doctor wrote: »
    Pac was far better at storytelling and its not even close...Stop that


    I don't know if I can agree, again Pac was a great storyteller but he didn't paint the picture the way Big did. Pac never made a story as visual as "Somebody's got To Die" that had a shock ending and all. Pac never made story where he played two characters like "Gimmie the Loot and Warning". Again I think Pac is under-rated as a storyteller but he was not better than Big. Emotion? Subject matter? Pac > Big all day but those are the only catagories in emceeing that I would put Pac over Big. Big had the edge in Storytelling, Lyrics, Flow. They were neck and neck on Commerical Tracks though Big had more success on the charts with his songs. Sales, of course Pac has the edge but Biggie sold half of what Pac did with 2 albums and 2 cut and paste albums. That's huge that people still brought Biggie albums from verses they already heard.
  • rusty shacklefordrusty shackleford Posts: 1,730
    edited February 2010
    illogics wrote: »
    You're putting too much on it. WAY too much.
    i don't mean to go out onna limb here but i thought about that for a second after reading it & i think it's definitely up there with some real life awakining content. think about it, the album starts off where he's gettin' outta prison.. he goes right back to the life he was living before.. [not to say that was his REAL life.. hiphops entertainment & he jus so happen to know his audience...] all through the album, he was the same dude & he ends up killin' his self @ the end.. i'd say that's a pretty acurate description of 8 outta 10 people who don't learn from havin' their freedumb takin' away the first time..
  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    illogics wrote: »
    You're putting too much on it. WAY too much.


    ILL's, I didn't say it was the "BEST" consious album, obviously they were better and most subjects touched. But if we had an album that would define the inner city experience. Meaning Blacks or minority growing up in the metorplotians cities of America. You have to put "RTD" up there. Yes, dudes rob pregant women. Dudes rob trains. As graphic as what Big rap about was, it was going on in hoods all across America. That's one of the biggest reason I think "RTD" blew, sure it had hits but many people in many different cities all across America could relate to the experience that was presented:


    Will Smith - "Ready To Die should be stuided in psychology classes to show the plight of the African American Male in the Inner City"


    Cornell West echoed the same thing.
  • Punisher__Punisher__ Posts: 3,031
    edited February 2010
    I honestly don't know who is more redundant...rapmastermind or dretox.

    I'm tempted to call it even.
  • blackrainblackrain Posts: 18,317 Regulator
    edited February 2010
    ILL's, I didn't say it was the "BEST" consious album, obviously they were better and most subjects touched. But if we had an album that would define the inner city experience. Meaning Blacks or minority growing up in the metorplotians cities of America. You have to put "RTD" up there. Yes, dudes rob pregant women. Dudes rob trains. As graphic as what Big rap about was, it was going on in hoods all across America. That's one of the biggest reason I think "RTD" blew, sure it had hits but many people in many different cities all across America could relate to the experience that was presented:


    Will Smith - "Ready To Die should be stuided in psychology classes to show the plight of the African American Male in the Inner City"


    Cornell West echoed the same thing.

    and yet it's Pac's lyrics and poetry that has already been studied in college classrooms for a few years now...
  • rusty shacklefordrusty shackleford Posts: 1,730
    edited February 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    and yet it's Pac's lyrics and poetry that has already been studied in college classrooms for a few years now...
    ... i seeeeeee....... then it's no wonder why women get treated like they do..
  • georgia boigeorgia boi Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    Biggie was easily a better battle rapper than Pac, but I'd still put Pac ahead of Big as a lyricist overall b/c Pac was more diverse and was the better songwriter. It's not far fetched to say that Biggie would've beat Pac in a battle.
  • illogicsillogics Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    i don't mean to go out onna limb here but i thought about that for a second after reading it & i think it's definitely up there with some real life awakining content. think about it, the album starts off where he's gettin' outta prison.. he goes right back to the life he was living before.. [not to say that was his REAL life.. hiphops entertainment & he jus so happen to know his audience...] all through the album, he was the same dude & he ends up killin' his self @ the end.. i'd say that's a pretty acurate description of 8 outta 10 people who don't learn from havin' their freedumb takin' away the first time..

    All I'm gonna say is...

    Gimme The Loot
    Machine Gun Funk
    Warning
    One More Chance
    The What
    Me and My Bitch
    Big Poppa
    Friend of Mine
  • blackrainblackrain Posts: 18,317 Regulator
    edited February 2010
    ... i seeeeeee....... then it's no wonder why women get treated like they do..

    uhh...not following you there
  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    and yet it's Pac's lyrics and poetry that has already been studied in college classrooms for a few years now...


    Yes because Pac touched on these subjects but more from a postive angle. Biggie gave you the raw, as violent and wrong as it could be, he told it. "Gimmie the Loot" is a song about two robbers that car jack rich people and end in a shootout with police. I've never robbed anyone in my life but Biggie brought me to that experience. He was just that visual lyrically. I say to this day, "RTD and LAD" play like a motion picture Trilogy with the Raise and Fall Concept:


    RTD - The Godfather
    LAD - The Godfather II & III
  • blackrainblackrain Posts: 18,317 Regulator
    edited February 2010
    Yes because Pac touched on these subjects but more from a postive angle. Biggie gave you the raw, as violent and wrong as it could be, he told it. "Gimmie the Loot" is a song about two robbers that car jack rich people and end in a shootout with police. I've never robbed anyone in my life but Biggie brought me to that experience. He was just that visual lyrically. I say to this day, "RTD and LAD" play like a motion picture Trilogy with the Raise and Fall Concept:


    RTD - The Godfather
    LAD - The Godfather II & III

    Im not saying that I dont like Biggie or that Biggie wasn't nice...Im sayin in terms of music I prefer to listen to I'd take Pac's type of lyricism over Biggie's...Pac's was just more relevant to me and my life vs. the things Biggie was rapping about...yeah Biggie was great at craftin lyrics to allow you to see what he was talking about...but Pac could craft lyrics to make you feel what he was talkin about...and it's more likely somebody's real life would reflect something in a Pac song vs. a biggie song
  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    I honestly don't know who is more redundant...rapmastermind or dretox.

    I'm tempted to call it even.


    I only posted this cause one of my boys asked me "Did you see that Snoop interview saying he thought Biggie could rip Pac?" I was like What? This whole interview was news to me. I knew Snoop dropped a new album at the end of last year but I missed this interview. Again I had no idea he was in the studio with Big and I had no idea he was friends with Big before the beef. After watching "Two of America's Most Wanted" I was sure Snoop was riding with Pac during the Beef but the truth is, he had love for Pac but he also had love for Biggie. But I was shocked to hear Pac was actually mad at Snoop. Pac was like "If I don't like Biggie, nobody associating with me can like Biggie". He was really getting out of control at the end. Again I understand he was mad at Big but for Pac to turn on Snoop at the end like that was wild cause Snoop was one of his homey's. I guess Pac didn't want to hear the truth. Snoop was right "Biggie wasn't coming at you so why would I team up to go at him". I just wish Pac didn't die, his death clearly set in motion Big's death.
  • Focal PointFocal Point Sa - Kem is my name... Maktub Posts: 13,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    illogics wrote: »
    You're putting too much on it. WAY too much.

    smh niggas is doped up huh lol
  • rusty shacklefordrusty shackleford Posts: 1,730
    edited February 2010
    illogics wrote: »
    All I'm gonna say is...

    Gimme The Loot
    Machine Gun Funk
    Warning
    One More Chance
    The What
    Me and My Bitch
    Big Poppa
    Friend of Mine
    those are all perfect ways to prove my point..
    blackrain wrote: »
    uhh...not following you there
    "Don't worry ladies.. keep ya head up... But I get around so don't get mad when i bust a nut on you & am out the door two seconds later to fuck with another broad.. Just be happy with this quicky.. BUT KEEP YO HEAD UP."

    with me now?
  • Punisher__Punisher__ Posts: 3,031
    edited February 2010
    I only posted this cause one of my boys asked me "Did you see that Snoop interview saying he thought Biggie could rip Pac?" I was like What? This whole interview was news to me. I knew Snoop dropped a new album at the end of last year but I missed this interview. Again I had no idea he was in the studio with Big and I had no idea he was friends with Big before the beef. After watching "Two of America's Most Wanted" I was sure Snoop was riding with Pac during the Beef but the truth is, he had love for Pac but he also had love for Biggie. But I was shocked to hear Pac was actually mad at Snoop. Pac was like "If I don't like Biggie, nobody associating with me can like Biggie". He was really getting out of control at the end. Again I understand he was mad at Big but for Pac to turn on Snoop at the end like that was wild cause Snoop was one of his homey's. I guess Pac didn't want to hear the truth. Snoop was right "Biggie wasn't coming at you so why would I team up to go at him". I just wish Pac didn't die, his death clearly set in motion Big's death.

    But no matter what your inspiration was to create this thread, it has turned into yet another example of how obsessed you are with Biggie. We have this same exact discussion over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

    The thread titles may be different, but the premise is the exact same. I honestly think you have a sickness.
  • BOSS KTULUBOSS KTULU Posts: 978
    edited February 2010
    look at all these horrified Pac stans

    fuckin lames

    even Snoop said BIG >>> Pac




    I got one word to say: "Oops."
  • illogicsillogics Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    those are all perfect ways to prove my point.."Don't worry ladies.. keep ya head up... But I get around so don't get mad when i bust a nut on you & am out the door two seconds later to fuck with another broad.. Just be happy with this quicky.. BUT KEEP YO HEAD UP."

    with me now?

    How are those songs perfect ways to prove your point? Those are "conscious" songs to you? Songs like Machine Gun Funk, Gimme The Loot etc?
  • Focal PointFocal Point Sa - Kem is my name... Maktub Posts: 13,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    lmao at some of these comments... I'm hearing niggas calling Big's album one of the most conscious joints of all time... what is this foolishness, I'm seeing o Pac's lyrics get study in colleges, ok how many colleges and who cares??? Are you in them colleges, are you studying them???
  • BOSS KTULUBOSS KTULU Posts: 978
    edited February 2010
    lol

    BIG never pretended to be "conscious"

    he was just telling stories about things that happen to inner city black kids, hustlers, gangsters, and rappers of all sorts

    dude never acted like he was out to save the world




    Pac, on the other hand, was ALWAYS acting
  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    illogics wrote: »
    How are those songs perfect ways to prove your point? Those are "conscious" songs to you? Songs like Machine Gun Funk, Gimme The Loot etc?


    There is no debate, Pac made better conscious songs than Biggie, it's really not debatable. But Biggie was less Hypocritial lyrically than Pac. Biggie gave you the raw and didn't try to hide it. Pac was very socially conscious his first 2 albums and then Thug Life on he was very "Gangster/Thug". He went from "Keep your Head Up" to dissing women. I remember a interview where Pac critized "RTD" because Biggie rapped about robbing a pregnat women yet on "Hit Em Up" Pac is making fun of a deadly disease that kills many Blacks in America "Sickle Cell". Again I'm happy Pac was verstile and touched on many subject but a hypocrite is a hypocrite. NaS gets critized for this same thing.
  • Punisher__Punisher__ Posts: 3,031
    edited February 2010
    c1up wrote: »
    lmao at some of these comments... I'm hearing niggas calling Big's album one of the most conscious joints of all time... what is this foolishness, I'm seeing o Pac's lyrics get study in colleges, ok how many colleges and who cares??? Are you in them colleges, are you studying them???

    Nigga, just delete your account. LMAO

    Absolutely ridiculous.
  • rusty shacklefordrusty shackleford Posts: 1,730
    edited February 2010
    illogics wrote: »
    How are those songs perfect ways to prove your point? Those are "conscious" songs to you? Songs like Machine Gun Funk, Gimme The Loot etc?
    uhh............................ i never said that.. i more or less said that the way he wrote the album was an eye opening thing to others who'd listen to it. he got out & made the same mistakes that got him locked up.. that in itself should be a lesson to the casual observer.

    & for the record, my favorite album of all time is "Let's Get Free" by dead prez purely because of it's conscious nature. never forget there's more than one way to reach your point. biggie just reached that point by way of the least common denominator.
  • Focal PointFocal Point Sa - Kem is my name... Maktub Posts: 13,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    Nigga, just delete your account. LMAO

    Absolutely ridiculous.
    that's exactly how you and some of these other niggas sound.... ya justifying Pac lyrics because a college is studying them... what is the purpose of even saying that when the whole premise of the thread was Snoop saying Big would of ate Pac up... NIGGA shut ya dumbass up... in fact log off you stan, fucking Pac Paladin, like the nigga need you to rescue him... take the cape off prick and get off of his
  • rapmastermindrapmastermind Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2010
    BOSS KTULU wrote: »
    lol

    BIG never pretended to be "conscious"

    he was just telling stories about things that happen to inner city black kids, hustlers, gangsters, and rappers of all sorts

    dude never acted like he was out to save the world




    Pac, on the other hand, was ALWAYS acting


    Exaclty, Biggie was a "Storyteller". He wasn't trying to be a Black Panther or change the world. That's not a diss to Pac, I'm happy he touched on the subjects he did. I just always find Pac's career odd. He was a consious rapper for the first part of his career but a Hardcore/street/thug rapper for the end of his career. Sure he stayed consious thorughout but he got really hardcore near the end.
  • rusty shacklefordrusty shackleford Posts: 1,730
    edited February 2010
    BOSS KTULU wrote: »
    lol

    BIG never pretended to be "conscious"

    he was just telling stories about things that happen to inner city black kids, hustlers, gangsters, and rappers of all sorts
    yeah... & notice he didn't write about how selling crack would get you a nobel peace prize.. he was as honest [if not more] about what can happen to you when livin' that life. warning was all about dealing with people who see you makin' some dough & wanna kill you for it..
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