Can Somebody tell me exactly what OWS has achieved?

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Replies

  • janklowjanklow Posts: 5,510
    Obama and the federal govt is being pressured by OWS and other groups to speed up the withdrawal from Afghanistan, and Leon Panetta announced 2 months ago troops would end combat missions by early 2013 (it could be a lie but it's a start). War fever in America has died down big time, and I think OWS plays a roll in that.
    well, "war fever" has died down for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the fact that these wars have been going on for a long, long time. it's hard to be enthused about/easier to be against a war that's been going on for 10 years.
    Banks also ended their ideas of debit card fees thanks to OWS and the tons of demonstrations by its many supporters.
    this is also not something that i would give them sole credit for, because i thought it was more the customers of the banks in question than OWS. but i'll grant you it's much more in keeping with their concept of protesting Wall Street's actions.
  • Drgoo0285Drgoo0285 Posts: 513
    janklow wrote: »
    It has many goals within but there are VERY common themes most protestors agree on.....

    -An end to all wars that are not for defense....OWS is definitely anti-war
    -Spending more bailout money on the working class to building infrastructure here instead of Iraq and Afghanistan.
    -Bail out states that need the money more than the Pentagon and Federal Reserve does
    -Stop spending money irresponsibly
    -Last but not least, legalize or decriminalize marijuana and cut down on the way too expensive War on Drugs
    this is all well and good, but it's still all over the place ... although, in fairness, your first three are redundant and your fourth one is sort of meaningless. but look at it this way: there are people and organizations who are pro-marijuana-legalization who focus ONLY ON THAT that haven't made it happen yet, so when you have OWS throw "legalize it" into their mix, it sounds like they're talking about it just to talk about it, not so much to resolve the issue.

    this is not to say they should stop doing whatever they want to do, i'm just saying why the average American doesn't think OWS doesn't stand for something concrete that they can accomplish.
    It's because OWS is about common people taking responsibly for the nation's future... Common people don't really have one over riding goal.
  • kingblaze84kingblaze84 Posts: 8,449
    janklow wrote: »
    Obama and the federal govt is being pressured by OWS and other groups to speed up the withdrawal from Afghanistan, and Leon Panetta announced 2 months ago troops would end combat missions by early 2013 (it could be a lie but it's a start). War fever in America has died down big time, and I think OWS plays a roll in that.
    well, "war fever" has died down for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the fact that these wars have been going on for a long, long time. it's hard to be enthused about/easier to be against a war that's been going on for 10 years.
    Banks also ended their ideas of debit card fees thanks to OWS and the tons of demonstrations by its many supporters.
    this is also not something that i would give them sole credit for, because i thought it was more the customers of the banks in question than OWS. but i'll grant you it's much more in keeping with their concept of protesting Wall Street's actions.

    I never said OWS is the ONLY reason banks got rid of debit card fees, as many planned at one point. I said OWS was very influential in that decison. Time Magazine named the protestor person of the year in 2011, and OWS were some of the most well known protestors that year due to their speaking out of issues that effect the common person. As far as the country's anti-war mood these past few years, OWS did a good job telling the nation how endless war is bankrupting our economy and our children's future. OWS isn't the sole reason for the country's overall anti-war mood lately, but it has played a huge factor.
  • AlkindusAlkindus Posts: 1,677
    well they got attention, first couple of days I thought it had massive potential.....but there was no soul in it,I know this is not the greatest or even a appropiate allusion but look at our brethern in Africa/Middle-East, the moment they stand outside and protest it's the point of no return, cats puttin their life on the line for the cause and thousands upon thousands die.....they have clear goals and stick to them + true necessity...

    there need to be martyrs, coordinated organisations/leaders, necessity and strong will for protests to succeed, you can't do it with generic goals/part time protesting, cats need to be realistic and ready to bleed for what they believe in, you're not going to beat a system without it imo.

  • janklowjanklow Posts: 5,510
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    It's because OWS is about common people taking responsibly for the nation's future... Common people don't really have one over riding goal.
    common people DO, however, support organizations that are directed at one particular topic/goal
    Time Magazine named the protestor person of the year in 2011, and OWS were some of the most well known protestors that year due to their speaking out of issues that effect the common person.
    unrelated comment: Time Magazine naming generic people and/or groups of people as their "person of the year" is a lame cop-out
    As far as the country's anti-war mood these past few years, OWS did a good job telling the nation how endless war is bankrupting our economy and our children's future. OWS isn't the sole reason for the country's overall anti-war mood lately, but it has played a huge factor.
    maybe, but it's not solely their thing, and i'm still going to argue that it's much less effective than the mere long-running nature of the war.
  • SionSion Posts: 18,782
    janklow wrote: »
    Obama and the federal govt is being pressured by OWS and other groups to speed up the withdrawal from Afghanistan, and Leon Panetta announced 2 months ago troops would end combat missions by early 2013 (it could be a lie but it's a start). War fever in America has died down big time, and I think OWS plays a roll in that.
    well, "war fever" has died down for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the fact that these wars have been going on for a long, long time. it's hard to be enthused about/easier to be against a war that's been going on for 10 years.
    Banks also ended their ideas of debit card fees thanks to OWS and the tons of demonstrations by its many supporters.
    this is also not something that i would give them sole credit for, because i thought it was more the customers of the banks in question than OWS. but i'll grant you it's much more in keeping with their concept of protesting Wall Street's actions.

    I never said OWS is the ONLY reason banks got rid of debit card fees, as many planned at one point. I said OWS was very influential in that decison. Time Magazine named the protestor person of the year in 2011, and OWS were some of the most well known protestors that year due to their speaking out of issues that effect the common person. As far as the country's anti-war mood these past few years, OWS did a good job telling the nation how endless war is bankrupting our economy and our children's future. OWS isn't the sole reason for the country's overall anti-war mood lately, but it has played a huge factor.

    This is true, and CEO of Bank of America Brian Moynihan claimed that the reason why they dropped their fees was because after seeing the OWS call out his bank specifically he realized that fees were a mistake. Jamie Dimon CEO of JP Morgan Chase followed suit shortly after.

    Not to mention it's also what helped motivate the "Buffett Rule" to have taxes raised on the wealthy. Come to think of it I think it was the main catalyst in having that rule even created.
  • janklowjanklow Posts: 5,510
    sionb55 wrote: »
    This is true, and CEO of Bank of America Brian Moynihan claimed that the reason why they dropped their fees was because after seeing the OWS call out his bank specifically he realized that fees were a mistake. Jamie Dimon CEO of JP Morgan Chase followed suit shortly after.
    i will always assume vocal customers outrank vocal random people who are not customers, but that's just me
    sionb55 wrote: »
    Not to mention it's also what helped motivate the "Buffett Rule" to have taxes raised on the wealthy. Come to think of it I think it was the main catalyst in having that rule even created.
    as opposed to that Buffett guy it's named after who spent all that time talking about it? i don't think the idea of progressively taxing the rich started with OWS.
  • Drgoo0285Drgoo0285 Posts: 513
    janklow wrote: »
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    It's because OWS is about common people taking responsibly for the nation's future... Common people don't really have one over riding goal.
    common people DO, however, support organizations that are directed at one particular topic/goal

    The point is not for people to support, but for people to get involved.

  • janklowjanklow Posts: 5,510
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    The point is not for people to support, but for people to get involved.
    people are PROBABLY more likely to get involved with something they see themselves supporting
  • hueyhuey Posts: 9,231
    it should start back up this summer, no one is tryna be out during winter
  • tru_m.a.ctru_m.a.c Posts: 9,069
    freehuey89 wrote: »
    it should start back up this summer, no one is tryna be out during winter

    lol seriously, it would be a nice lunch break

    but nah OWS failed because everybody that actually "would" participate didn't
    1. understand the message
    2. doesn't understand the banking industry
    3. has some sort of time commitment (school, job etc)
    4. had no way of getting involved in OWS in a meaningful way

    the protest were a nice start

    next you'd need to actually elect an OWS sensitive state rep

    and not one of these established players who are now "sympathetic" but a fresh face and fresh voice

    but they can't have a single platform behind OWS....it was to be more geared toward the electorate

    but yeah the middle class actually failed OWS, because even when they'd ask "what are they protesting about," they'd never actually go and educate themselves on what OWS was protesting about

    I'd compare it to walking past a window cleaner hanging off a skyscraper. You walk by, look up. Go wow, what's he doing? Damn thats a dangerous and cool job. And then keep on walking never thinking about that moment again. That was literally the middle classes reaction to the movement.
  • Drgoo0285Drgoo0285 Posts: 513
    janklow wrote: »
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    The point is not for people to support, but for people to get involved.
    people are PROBABLY more likely to get involved with something they see themselves supporting

    But the ambiguity is part of the movement.

    It's like telling an expressionist painter his painting would be so much better if he made it with photo realistic people..
  • janklowjanklow Posts: 5,510
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    But the ambiguity is part of the movement.
    It's like telling an expressionist painter his painting would be so much better if he made it with photo realistic people..
    an expressionist painter is doing what he chooses to as an artist; OWS is supposedly a political movement meant to achieve concrete goals.
  • tru_m.a.ctru_m.a.c Posts: 9,069
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    janklow wrote: »
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    The point is not for people to support, but for people to get involved.
    people are PROBABLY more likely to get involved with something they see themselves supporting

    But the ambiguity is part of the movement.

    It's like telling an expressionist painter his painting would be so much better if he made it with photo realistic people..

    there was no ambiguity....how many times are y'all gonna say this without researching if you are right or not
  • kingblaze84kingblaze84 Posts: 8,449
    edited April 2012
    tru_m.a.c wrote: »
    freehuey89 wrote: »
    it should start back up this summer, no one is tryna be out during winter

    lol seriously, it would be a nice lunch break

    but nah OWS failed because everybody that actually "would" participate didn't
    1. understand the message
    2. doesn't understand the banking industry
    3. has some sort of time commitment (school, job etc)
    4. had no way of getting involved in OWS in a meaningful way

    the protest were a nice start

    next you'd need to actually elect an OWS sensitive state rep

    and not one of these established players who are now "sympathetic" but a fresh face and fresh voice

    but they can't have a single platform behind OWS....it was to be more geared toward the electorate

    but yeah the middle class actually failed OWS, because even when they'd ask "what are they protesting about," they'd never actually go and educate themselves on what OWS was protesting about

    I'd compare it to walking past a window cleaner hanging off a skyscraper. You walk by, look up. Go wow, what's he doing? Damn thats a dangerous and cool job. And then keep on walking never thinking about that moment again. That was literally the middle classes reaction to the movement.

    The movement just started lol......in all seriousness, OWS may very well fail in the future. But it's too early to tell and the movement was very powerful at one point and it did change the way politicians looked at its populace. Banks and corporations have said publicly that OWS changed the way they did business, as they saw how many people in the streets were angry (and still angry) at dishonest and horrible policies that would hurt everyday people and small business. Next time you want to call OWS a failure, remember how they helped cancel banks' plans for debit card fees. And if OWS really is successful in the future, they can find a candidate for President who can finally be one for the people, not a police state that wages neverending war and bankrupts its citizens one generation at a time by wasteful spending on stupid things, like the prison industrial complex.
  • Drgoo0285Drgoo0285 Posts: 513
    tru_m.a.c wrote: »
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    janklow wrote: »
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    The point is not for people to support, but for people to get involved.
    people are PROBABLY more likely to get involved with something they see themselves supporting

    But the ambiguity is part of the movement.

    It's like telling an expressionist painter his painting would be so much better if he made it with photo realistic people..

    there was no ambiguity....how many times are y'all gonna say this without researching if you are right or not
    Yes there was..

    There was purposely no leadership so that people could freely come and go as they chose.

    Also there were no official list of demands.

    Also there were no politicians that were officially endorsed by them.

    It's kind of like the I am Hiphop movement. Hiphop is not something you wait for business people to release, you are hiphop. The occupy movement is(figuratively) not what is happening in new york, it's you taking control of your government so they meet your needs...
  • Drgoo0285Drgoo0285 Posts: 513
    janklow wrote: »
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    But the ambiguity is part of the movement.
    It's like telling an expressionist painter his painting would be so much better if he made it with photo realistic people..
    an expressionist painter is doing what he chooses to as an artist; OWS is supposedly a political movement meant to achieve concrete goals.

    They didn't have concrete goals...
  • tru_m.a.ctru_m.a.c Posts: 9,069
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    tru_m.a.c wrote: »
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    janklow wrote: »
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    The point is not for people to support, but for people to get involved.
    people are PROBABLY more likely to get involved with something they see themselves supporting

    But the ambiguity is part of the movement.

    It's like telling an expressionist painter his painting would be so much better if he made it with photo realistic people..

    there was no ambiguity....how many times are y'all gonna say this without researching if you are right or not
    Yes there was..

    There was purposely no leadership so that people could freely come and go as they chose.

    Also there were no official list of demands.

    Also there were no politicians that were officially endorsed by them.

    It's kind of like the I am Hiphop movement. Hiphop is not something you wait for business people to release, you are hiphop. The occupy movement is(figuratively) not what is happening in new york, it's you taking control of your government so they meet your needs...

    I misread your original post
  • janklowjanklow Posts: 5,510
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    They didn't have concrete goals...
    so your theory here is that OWS has no point? this is an interesting defense

  • Drgoo0285Drgoo0285 Posts: 513
    janklow wrote: »
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    They didn't have concrete goals...
    so your theory here is that OWS has no point? this is an interesting defense

    Point and concrete goals are two different things...

    the point is to take control of your government...

    But there's no goal or destination, where people go "well, ____ happened so that means we can stop protesting."
  • janklowjanklow Posts: 5,510
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    Point and concrete goals are two different things...
    the point is to take control of your government...
    But there's no goal or destination, where people go "well, ____ happened so that means we can stop protesting."
    see, the thing is, we've heard a list of stuff OWS is supposedly working towards. so either that's bullshit and they're NOT working towards anything... or they HAVE had goals. and none of this changes my point, however, which is that for OWS to have serious popular support, they have to have some goals the common man can relate to achieving
  • Drgoo0285Drgoo0285 Posts: 513
    janklow wrote: »
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    Point and concrete goals are two different things...
    the point is to take control of your government...
    But there's no goal or destination, where people go "well, ____ happened so that means we can stop protesting."
    see, the thing is, we've heard a list of stuff OWS is supposedly working towards. so either that's bullshit and they're NOT working towards anything... or they HAVE had goals. and none of this changes my point, however, which is that for OWS to have serious popular support, they have to have some goals the common man can relate to achieving
    They do have significant support..

    BUT

    you are missing the point to the movement...

    It's not about what goals they are achieving it's about what goals are you achieving.
  • janklowjanklow Posts: 5,510
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    They do have significant support..
    ...which is a notion that seems to be unverifiable. do not mistake "i support this thing they supported" with significant support for OWS.
    Drgoo0285 wrote: »
    It's not about what goals they are achieving it's about what goals are you achieving.
    as i am not a member of OWS, if they're about what goals i personally am achieving, this seems to speak ill of the movement.
  • judahxulujudahxulu Posts: 3,856
    janklow wrote: »
    LOL, yeah it is. Many members of OWS marched in NYC just last week for Trayvon Martin.
    in some respects, this confirms the criticism that they lack clear-enough goals to accomplish anything

    OWS is against injustice anywhere it happens. An example is when many OWS members blocked foreclosures all over America, and SUCCEEDED in helping people keep their homes, even if only temporary. If banks can get bailed out, than so should regular Americans who have caught a hard time in this monopoly money economy, in which the federal reserve bails out the rich and leaves everyone else hanging. I was very proud to see OWS support Trayvon Martin's family the way it did, my respect and love for them grew a lot last week.


    come on now homie. i know you smarter than that. why dont you bring up some more common injustices within the black community at one of yall lil meetings and shit. if u do, what u will find is that they will not stand up for any injustices specifically pertaining to the descendants of chattel slaves UNLESS its something like the trayvon case where it would be politically incorrect NOT say something. ows doent stand for injustice everywhere. thats just a phrase used for emotional manipulation. if that was the case, the hood shoulda been occupied months ago. nah bruh, ows is a passive aggressive temper tantrum because the middle class white sheeple realized that white privelege was just a ruse. what happened to them is not injustice. we were fucked up as a people before ows, are now and will be if we dont get real. massas kid says hes sick and you up there like "yeah boss, WE sick". dude, its all about us. where u think the top dogs on wall street caking from. old slave money they done flipped. look up all the top companies origins. its just. these middle class whites have been living high off the hog offa slave labor by proxy. they wouldnt had jobs in the first place if it wasnt for that original injustice. chickens coming home to roost. this is what makes the man who doesnt culture spiritual wisdom in self stupid. you blacks supporting that bs cant see that there is no way a nation that was built on blood can avoid falling. get it through your head- you are fighting divine justice, the injustice has been commited and is in fact the entire system. you cant get rid of injustice totally until u get rid of the system that runs on it. yall not ready for that shit, you making signs and yelling instead of stacking ammo and water. plenty white folks are, and when they emerge i guarantee they will not give a fuck if u a card carrying ows member. i been on this site for a while now and im familiar with your posts and positions on key issues. ive never seen u go hard in the paint for a "movement" like you cape for ows. you should focus that energy on getting you and your loved ones ready for whats coming cause money is finna be the least of your worries pretty soon here. mark my words. not trying to diss u or nothing but my life is built around fighting injustice and please believe thats not what ows is about. at the end of the day you are only a friend to the white liberal because of how it makes them feel not so guilty about how they profited offa your ancestors blood but they DO NOT give a shit about you or the concerns personal to you about injustices UNIQUE to black folks. use your head, g. u smarter than that. you jacking off ur energy mane.
  • judahxulujudahxulu Posts: 3,856
    test my theory. bring up some black shit that the medias not dickriding and see if your white buddies make themselves uncomfortable and in harms way to stand against injustice that dont take no food offa their table. bring it up and then observe.
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