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Trayvon had drugs in his system and all injuries show signs of a struggle.

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  • Hyde ParkeHyde Parke Posts: 2,463
    intersting,the authors of the stand your ground law don't even support Zimmerman in this case :

    Former Sen. Durell Peaden and Rep. Dennis Baxley, two of the authors of Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, are arguing that George Zimmerman, under grand jury investigation for the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, lost the right to claim self-defense the moment he began following Martin in his car, insisting that the law itself is not to blame for Martin's death.
    "He has no protection under my law," Peaden told the Miami Herald.

    Iheart~Caliidoitforhiphop10
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  • VIBEVIBE Posts: 23,269
    edwardnigma wrote: »
    Vibe is one evil motherfucka, vibe you are what we are referring to when we say white devil.

    You're wicked, str8 treacherous.

    Defending a man that killed an unarmed boy.

    Just cause the boy is black, you think he deserved it and you have no sympathy for him.

    I hope somebody does this exact same to you man. Honestly

    Ether. Your post is false but yeah, ether, that last line was good.
    ghost thoidoitforhiphop10stringer bell
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  • Drgoo0285Drgoo0285 Posts: 483
    VIBE wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    how did the fight start after zimmerman approached him is the only question that matters...who won the fight, who was smoking weed is irrelevant
    Not quite. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, that alone wouldn't make his use of force unlawful.

    it would be pretty hard to claim self-defense in a fight that you instigated

    Asking someone what they're doing there is instigating a fight?

    Following in a car and then running after the same person could be considered instigating an altercation.
    Iheart~Caliidoitforhiphop10
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  • TheEyeronic1TheEyeronic1 Posts: 5,183
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    how did the fight start after zimmerman approached him is the only question that matters...who won the fight, who was smoking weed is irrelevant
    Not quite. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, that alone wouldn't make his use of force unlawful.

    it would be pretty hard to claim self-defense in a fight that you instigated


    NOT IN FUCKING FLORIDA.


    in florida, it doesnt matter WHO started the fight.

    if you are in a fight and you feel as if your life is threatened, you can SHOOT to kill and claim SELF-DEFENSE.


    that is the law.



    we all get it, he shouldnt have followed dude. CORRECT.

    BUT he didnt do anything illegal or AGAINST the LAW when he disobeyed the dispatcher.

    would Trayvon be alive if dude didnt follow him? yes. but thats BEYOND the point at this stage.


    Zimmerman will walk on those 2nd degree murder charges.


    this is the justice, according to the LAW.

    VIBE
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  • VIBEVIBE Posts: 23,269
    Hyde Parke wrote: »
    VIBE wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    how did the fight start after zimmerman approached him is the only question that matters...who won the fight, who was smoking weed is irrelevant
    Not quite. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, that alone wouldn't make his use of force unlawful.

    it would be pretty hard to claim self-defense in a fight that you instigated

    Asking someone what they're doing there is instigating a fight?

    it led to one did it not?

    We don't know what happened after, "who are you" and "what are you doing here".

    Those are not "fighting words", they are questions. Who initiated the fight? GZ approach doesn't mean he started anything, if someone approaches you and asks you a question and you hit him, who started it? I'm not saying TM did because we don't know. Based on the evidence GZ got beat down though and he decided to make a mistake, which was shoot TM. TM didn't deserve to die, but it is what it is.
    ghost tho
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  • TheEyeronic1TheEyeronic1 Posts: 5,183

    morally, i think we can all see things the same way.

    nobody wants Zimmerman free. thats obvious.


    but this is a case of the LAW. The LAW gonna win, regardless of what people FEEL about the shit.
    ghost thockalokoh
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  • CopperKingCopperKing Posts: 21,710
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    how did the fight start after zimmerman approached him is the only question that matters...who won the fight, who was smoking weed is irrelevant
    Not quite. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, that alone wouldn't make his use of force unlawful.

    it would be pretty hard to claim self-defense in a fight that you instigated
    Not if the conditions satisfy the following:
    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
    (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
    History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

    does any evidence exist that proves/supports that excessive force was reasonable or that zimmerman backed away from physical contact? because there is proof that he pursued wich led up to said incident. and would trayvon defense be able to claim defense (a) seeing as how he was the one approached?
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  • CopperKingCopperKing Posts: 21,710
    VIBE wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    how did the fight start after zimmerman approached him is the only question that matters...who won the fight, who was smoking weed is irrelevant
    Not quite. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, that alone wouldn't make his use of force unlawful.

    it would be pretty hard to claim self-defense in a fight that you instigated

    Asking someone what they're doing there is instigating a fight?

    depends on tone of voice, proximity, body language and if there was any physical contact
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  • TheEyeronic1TheEyeronic1 Posts: 5,183
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    how did the fight start after zimmerman approached him is the only question that matters...who won the fight, who was smoking weed is irrelevant


    doesnt matter who started the fight.


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  • Iheart~CaliIheart~Cali Posts: 5,245


    NOT IN FUCKING FLORIDA.


    in florida, it doesnt matter WHO started the fight.

    if you are in a fight and you feel as if your life is threatened, you can SHOOT to kill and claim SELF-DEFENSE.


    that is the law.



    we all get it, he shouldnt have followed dude. CORRECT.

    BUT he didnt do anything illegal or AGAINST the LAW when he disobeyed the dispatcher.

    would Trayvon be alive if dude didnt follow him? yes. but thats BEYOND the point at this stage.


    Zimmerman will walk on those 2nd degree murder charges.


    this is the justice, according to the LAW.

    Pretty hard to convince anyone you felt your life was threatened when you not only pursued an unarmed man who was considerably smaller than you, but you were also carrying a deadly weapon while you did it. IF he can prove he felt threatened is a pretty big IF. That's probably what the whole thing is going to come down to.
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  • Hyde ParkeHyde Parke Posts: 2,463

    NOT IN FUCKING FLORIDA.


    in florida, it doesnt matter WHO started the fight.

    if you are in a fight and you feel as if your life is threatened, you can SHOOT to kill and claim SELF-DEFENSE.


    that is the law.



    we all get it, he shouldnt have followed dude. CORRECT.

    BUT he didnt do anything illegal or AGAINST the LAW when he disobeyed the dispatcher.

    would Trayvon be alive if dude didnt follow him? yes. but thats BEYOND the point at this stage.


    Zimmerman will walk on those 2nd degree murder charges.


    this is the justice, according to the LAW.

    [/quote]

    the same could be argued that trayvon felt threatened and he was fighting for his life(standing his ground). So how would the law work in that way?
    either the law is dumb, or its being misinterpreted.







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  • TheEyeronic1TheEyeronic1 Posts: 5,183
    Iheart~Cali wrote: »


    NOT IN FUCKING FLORIDA.


    in florida, it doesnt matter WHO started the fight.

    if you are in a fight and you feel as if your life is threatened, you can SHOOT to kill and claim SELF-DEFENSE.


    that is the law.



    we all get it, he shouldnt have followed dude. CORRECT.

    BUT he didnt do anything illegal or AGAINST the LAW when he disobeyed the dispatcher.

    would Trayvon be alive if dude didnt follow him? yes. but thats BEYOND the point at this stage.


    Zimmerman will walk on those 2nd degree murder charges.


    this is the justice, according to the LAW.

    Pretty hard to convince anyone you felt your life was threatened when you not only pursued an unarmed man who was considerably smaller than you, but you were also carrying a deadly weapon while you did it. IF he can prove he felt threatened is a pretty big IF. That's probably what the whole thing is going to come down to.



    its pretty easy to convince a jury that Zimmerman's life was in danger considering the gashes & broken nose. add that 911 call of Zimmerman screaming for help and its a wrap. his self-defense claim will be that dude was fucking him up so he had NO choice but to fire. they say the gunshot occurred between 1-18 inches, so it was a close range shot...

    see, without giving you the events that lead up to it, its pretty easy to paint a picture of a man who was defending himself from getting FURTHER fucked up.



    not to mention, there are witnesses that are corroborating Zimmerman's story.


    OPEN YOUR EYES, PEOPLE. This is a situation involving 2 men and 2 men only, and only 1 of them is still alive. This means, theres only 1 side of the story that can be told in court, for real. In court, its not what about whats true or false, its about what you can PROVE.


    the law is FUCKED.
    ckalokoh
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  • fuc_i_look_likefuc_i_look_like Posts: 5,640
    Police on the news now are saying Treyvons death was "ultimately avoidable".
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  • Iheart~CaliIheart~Cali Posts: 5,245
    Also, I'm not sure about Florida law, but there are states that allow information regarding prior behavior if it relates to the current case. Zimmerman has already been arrested for domestic violence, resisting arrest, and battery of an officer. This should clearly show he has a tendency toward aggression and violence; which should make his claim about feeling threatened less credible. We all know it's bs anyway.
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  • TheEyeronic1TheEyeronic1 Posts: 5,183
    fuc_i_look_like wrote: »
    Police on the news now are saying Treyvons death was "ultimately avoidable".



    ultimately, it was.



    but ULTIMATELY, it wasnt.

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  • TheEyeronic1TheEyeronic1 Posts: 5,183
    Hyde Parke wrote: »
    intersting,the authors of the stand your ground law don't even support Zimmerman in this case :

    Former Sen. Durell Peaden and Rep. Dennis Baxley, two of the authors of Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, are arguing that George Zimmerman, under grand jury investigation for the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, lost the right to claim self-defense the moment he began following Martin in his car, insisting that the law itself is not to blame for Martin's death.
    "He has no protection under my law," Peaden told the Miami Herald.


    i hope they are right.

    Hyde Parke
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  • Iheart~CaliIheart~Cali Posts: 5,245
    I don't think it will be easy at all. Everyone is expecting him to get off because of how the Sanford police have handled it to this point. I'm not saying I believe he will be convicted, but proving he felt threatened is not going to be as simple as him opening his mouth and saying "I felt threatened".
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  • Hyde ParkeHyde Parke Posts: 2,463
    @ vibe

    we do know a fight occured, and we do know he approached trayvon asking him what he was doing there, we also know zimmermans state of mind as while he was on the phone with the 911 dispatcher, he said "these assholes!, they always get away" so its reasonable to conclude that he was looking for a confrontation when he approached trayvon
    idoitforhiphop10
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  • TheEyeronic1TheEyeronic1 Posts: 5,183
    Iheart~Cali wrote: »
    I don't think it will be easy at all. Everyone is expecting him to get off because of how the Sanford police have handled it to this point. I'm not saying I believe he will be convicted, but proving he felt threatened is not going to be as simple as him opening his mouth and saying "I felt threatened".

    its not going to be a matter of him saying shit.


    Look at the pictures. They are going to say that Zimmerman was getting his head slammed in the cement and catching the beats!!!!

    Thats where the self-defense comes in. They can paint a picture of a man who was overpowered and was getting the breaks beat off of him, which "forced" zimmerman to shoot him because he feared brain damage or some excuse like that.


    like i said, its about what you can PROVE. the pictures tell more than what trayvon can tell, obviously. Add other people's accounts of the situation and bam.


    dude walks on them murder charges.
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  • VIBEVIBE Posts: 23,269
    Hyde Parke wrote: »
    @ vibe

    we do know a fight occured, and we do know he approached trayvon asking him what he was doing there, we also know zimmermans state of mind as while he was on the phone with the 911 dispatcher, he said "these assholes!, they always get away" so its reasonable to conclude that he was looking for a confrontation when he approached trayvon

    False.

    1. Obviously a struggle/fight occurred.

    2. GZ didn't confront TM, we don't know who found who. GZ clearly states he doesn't know where he is and that he lost him.

    3. His statements don't give him a "killer state of mind"
    ghost thoidoitforhiphop10
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  • edwardnigmaedwardnigma Posts: 2,702
    VIBE wrote: »
    edwardnigma wrote: »
    Vibe is one evil motherfucka, vibe you are what we are referring to when we say white devil.

    You're wicked, str8 treacherous.

    Defending a man that killed an unarmed boy.

    Just cause the boy is black, you think he deserved it and you have no sympathy for him.

    I hope somebody does this exact same to you man. Honestly

    Ether. Your post is false but yeah, ether, that last line was good.

    Whatever man, that wasn't a threat and I don't hope nothing bad happens to you but the first 3 sentences still stand. Those are facts.
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  • fiat_moneyfiat_money Posts: 16,671
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    how did the fight start after zimmerman approached him is the only question that matters...who won the fight, who was smoking weed is irrelevant
    Not quite. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, that alone wouldn't make his use of force unlawful.

    it would be pretty hard to claim self-defense in a fight that you instigated
    Not if the conditions satisfy the following:
    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
    (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
    History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

    does any evidence exist that proves/supports that excessive force was reasonable or that zimmerman backed away from physical contact? because there is proof that he pursued wich led up to said incident. and would trayvon defense be able to claim defense (a) seeing as how he was the one approached?
    If the witness accounts that Zimmerman was on the ground screaming for help while getting his ass beat by Treyvon are true, and if Zimmerman was the aggressor; that may satisfy the below requirement for lawful use of force by the aggressor:
    the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant

    And it's not publicly known who confronted who yet. However, had Treyvon been able to kill Zimmerman instead, he could also claim self-defense.
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  • CopperKingCopperKing Posts: 21,710
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    how did the fight start after zimmerman approached him is the only question that matters...who won the fight, who was smoking weed is irrelevant
    Not quite. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, that alone wouldn't make his use of force unlawful.

    it would be pretty hard to claim self-defense in a fight that you instigated
    Not if the conditions satisfy the following:
    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
    (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
    History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

    does any evidence exist that proves/supports that excessive force was reasonable or that zimmerman backed away from physical contact? because there is proof that he pursued wich led up to said incident. and would trayvon defense be able to claim defense (a) seeing as how he was the one approached?
    If the witness accounts that Zimmerman was on the ground screaming for help while getting his ass beat by Treyvon are true, and if Zimmerman was the aggressor; that may satisfy the below requirement for lawful use of force by the aggressor:
    the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant

    And it's not publicly known who confronted who yet. However, had Treyvon been able to kill Zimmerman instead, he could also claim self-defense.

    a few witnessess are claiming a few diff. things but yeah u right trayvon should have been able to claim self-defense but we all know how that would have turned out...but its all speculation about what went down
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  • fiat_moneyfiat_money Posts: 16,671
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    fiat_money wrote: »
    copperkid27 wrote: »
    how did the fight start after zimmerman approached him is the only question that matters...who won the fight, who was smoking weed is irrelevant
    Not quite. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, that alone wouldn't make his use of force unlawful.

    it would be pretty hard to claim self-defense in a fight that you instigated
    Not if the conditions satisfy the following:
    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
    (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
    History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

    does any evidence exist that proves/supports that excessive force was reasonable or that zimmerman backed away from physical contact? because there is proof that he pursued wich led up to said incident. and would trayvon defense be able to claim defense (a) seeing as how he was the one approached?
    If the witness accounts that Zimmerman was on the ground screaming for help while getting his ass beat by Treyvon are true, and if Zimmerman was the aggressor; that may satisfy the below requirement for lawful use of force by the aggressor:
    the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant

    And it's not publicly known who confronted who yet. However, had Treyvon been able to kill Zimmerman instead, he could also claim self-defense.

    a few witnessess are claiming a few diff. things but yeah u right trayvon should have been able to claim self-defense but we all know how that would have turned out...but its all speculation about what went down
    Examples of the bolded?
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