The Official 2011/2012 Los Angeles Lakers Thread

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  • aneed123aneed123 Posts: 13,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    aneed123 wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    it will be some bullshit if they get Howard and D will... Stern need to push dat button again lol

    Id rather have Dwill ... but id take both and Gasol and Bynum can get gone

    honestly yall dont need a overhaul.... Bynum and Paul still are good.... This was the 1st year with a underwhelming coach and yall went to the west semis.... Sessions is good too yall had him for 1/4th a season. Next year Jordan Hill needs more minutes... PUT Artest with the 2nd unit on the block and let the young guard Goulock get real minutes to develop. Build yall team back up instead of just getting stars. And Kobe needs to take good shots and allow Bynum to be his Shaq

    Real talk, only people i care about are Jordan Hill artest goudelock outside of kobe and sessions can be a back up I cant take a perpetual bitch and a Fundementally retarded big man with an AAU highschool attitude.. nope fuck that watching every game opens your eyes bynum doesnt know how to use his body . doesnt have a solid base and cant pass for shit. he will not be kobes shaq and again his attitude fucking sucks

    I hear u but those same players ur downtalking helped get 2 rings and 3 finals appearances...
    tierra5690
  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 46,809 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bynum had marginal contributions outside of1 game in2010 finals...and yesterday isnt today
  • DaBullDaBull Posts: 7,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    draft lottery is next week. that goes a long way to tell if D-will leaves. if nets get a top 2 pick, i think Dwill is gonna stay in brooklyn since Nets can trade that pick + Lopez and marshon to orlando for Dwight
  • Inglewood_BInglewood_B If God won't help me, this gun will... Los AwesomePosts: 6,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mumo_X wrote: »
    has kobe ever shot 50%?

    kobe has had the MOST HELP of any top 10 player. More than Wilt,Mj,Kareem,Magic,Bird,Duncan,Hakeem,bill

    fuck you talkin about? those teams were loaded with actual HOFers. not potential HOFers,or just all stars. literal HOFers. step your NBA knowledge up

    MR.CJnorthside7
  • MR.CJMR.CJ Posts: 47,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mumo_X wrote: »
    has kobe ever shot 50%?

    kobe has had the MOST HELP of any top 10 player. More than Wilt,Mj,Kareem,Magic,Bird,Duncan,Hakeem,bill

    fuck you talkin about? those teams were loaded with actual HOFers. not potential HOFers,or just all stars. literal HOFers. step your NBA knowledge up


    word

    magic/kareem were on the same team and both are top 5 greatest players of all time
  • CopperCopper The WickPosts: 34,786 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That nigga mumo has zero sports knowledge and just post emotional irrelevant thoughts
  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 46,809 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ripped from another board... pretty much echos my sentiments the thread was about can Kobe be a #1 which was a ridiculous notion but this guy just knocked it out of the park
    Championships are team victories. For what it's worth, I cringed every time Michael Jordan called his teammates his "supporting cast." And Kobe would not have won anything without a great coach (PJ) and teammates who stepped up when it counted. He was the tip of the spear, no doubt, but the tip is just part of of the whole.

    I evaluate a player's performance independent of what the general consensus is, because the general consensus is often completely wrong. And I also try to steer clear of simplistic notions such as 'he gets credit when they win so he should get the blame when they lose." That's simplistic.

    Now, would we even be talking about Kobe's performance is even one of his teammates had stepped up the last two years? Think of how poor the outside shooting was for the lakers in last year's play-offs. With guys like Kobe, Bynum and Pau commanding defensive attention, you know the perimeter guys will have tone of open looks. They got those looks, but couldn't hit squat (including Fisher).

    People keep saying, yeah, but Kobe should shoot with three guys on him yadda yadda yadda. This year I saw players like Pau and Blake pass up wide open shots in order to give the ball to Kobe so that he could take the shot as the clock winds down.

    The reason Kobe has to work so hard for his shots is that teams can load up on him. This was evident in the first game this year against Chicago, and stayed evident through most of the year. Players on OKC -- particularly the big three -- have the luxury of being defended one-on-one. They know if they get doubled, a quick pass to an open teammates likely results in an open jumper of a red carpet to the rim or foul line. No such luxury on the lakers.

    I agree that the laker offense is flawed. One reason I didn't want MB is that, based on his performance as Cleveland's coach, I knew he'd be a disaster, especially in the play-offs. He runs high school level offenses that just aren't up to snuff and are easy to defend. Maybe if he had some shooters this year the Lakers would have advanced. But once he saw that he didn't have shooters, he needed to figure out a way to better deploy what he did have. Instead, he reverted the the most primitive approach available which, in the play-offs, became even more simplistic: Give it to Kobe and let him create.

    But that's Kobe's fault?

    People also say, "well, it's clear Kobe isn't the player he was five years ago," with the corollary being, "Therefore he's done as a leader of the attack because he can't win games anymore by himself." Well, is he supposed to? If the standard is whether a player can win a game by himself, then which NBA player is qualified to be the banner carrier/focal point of attack for his team? Most teams still in play have multiple creators (Rondo, Pierce; Wade, James; Harden, Westbrook, Durant; Parker, Manu). Who did Kobe have? Pau? Who disappeared for the second year in a row? Bynum? Who only played when he felt like it? Metta? Woo wasn't even around for the whole play-offs? Sessions? Who imploded from the bright lights? Blake? Seriously?

    It's easy to criticize and criticize badly when a team loses. But you have to actually look at what's in play.

    No superstar -- and that includes Kobe, Wilt, MJ, Magic, Bird -- playing for a bad coach and teammates who don't step up will come out looking like a guy who can beat all comers.

    And I haven't even gotten to the raw deal #24 gets from the stripped shirts. Even in game when he gets 18 FTs -- if you watch the tape, he could easily have had 8-10 more. That 18 ft game is anomalous given the way he usually get's reffed.

    Finally, whether it's Kobe's team or whomever's team -- I actually don't even think Kobe cares. He just wants to win. But this year proved that -- even if what the OP say is true -- that Kobe was the only guy with the guts and the will to fight to the end, and go down swinging.

    Maybe the only other laker who met him halfway was Metta, for the games he played. Everyone else basically checked out.

    THAT's where the fix remains for this team. Until that is addressed (and I think the failure is a function of BOTH personnel and coach), the lakers will come up short. Asking Kobe by himself to overcome bad officiating, bad leadership from the bench, and weak-hearted teammates is a bit much. And then claiming that because he can no longer do so (BTW, did he ever? Did anyone?) ... is absurd.
  • caddo mancaddo man You cant @ me bro Posts: 14,813 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mumo_X wrote: »
    has kobe ever shot 50%?

    kobe has had the MOST HELP of any top 10 player. More than Wilt,Mj,Kareem,Magic,Bird,Duncan,Hakeem,bill

    fuck you talkin about? those teams were loaded with actual HOFers. not potential HOFers,or just all stars. literal HOFers. step your NBA knowledge up

    LOL! this MFer off the chain now. I had to give him a troll for that.
  • northside7northside7 Posts: 17,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ripped from another board... pretty much echos my sentiments the thread was about can Kobe be a #1 which was a ridiculous notion but this guy just knocked it out of the park
    Championships are team victories. For what it's worth, I cringed every time Michael Jordan called his teammates his "supporting cast." And Kobe would not have won anything without a great coach (PJ) and teammates who stepped up when it counted. He was the tip of the spear, no doubt, but the tip is just part of of the whole.

    I evaluate a player's performance independent of what the general consensus is, because the general consensus is often completely wrong. And I also try to steer clear of simplistic notions such as 'he gets credit when they win so he should get the blame when they lose." That's simplistic.

    Now, would we even be talking about Kobe's performance is even one of his teammates had stepped up the last two years? Think of how poor the outside shooting was for the lakers in last year's play-offs. With guys like Kobe, Bynum and Pau commanding defensive attention, you know the perimeter guys will have tone of open looks. They got those looks, but couldn't hit squat (including Fisher).

    People keep saying, yeah, but Kobe should shoot with three guys on him yadda yadda yadda. This year I saw players like Pau and Blake pass up wide open shots in order to give the ball to Kobe so that he could take the shot as the clock winds down.

    The reason Kobe has to work so hard for his shots is that teams can load up on him. This was evident in the first game this year against Chicago, and stayed evident through most of the year. Players on OKC -- particularly the big three -- have the luxury of being defended one-on-one. They know if they get doubled, a quick pass to an open teammates likely results in an open jumper of a red carpet to the rim or foul line. No such luxury on the lakers.

    I agree that the laker offense is flawed. One reason I didn't want MB is that, based on his performance as Cleveland's coach, I knew he'd be a disaster, especially in the play-offs. He runs high school level offenses that just aren't up to snuff and are easy to defend. Maybe if he had some shooters this year the Lakers would have advanced. But once he saw that he didn't have shooters, he needed to figure out a way to better deploy what he did have. Instead, he reverted the the most primitive approach available which, in the play-offs, became even more simplistic: Give it to Kobe and let him create.

    But that's Kobe's fault?

    People also say, "well, it's clear Kobe isn't the player he was five years ago," with the corollary being, "Therefore he's done as a leader of the attack because he can't win games anymore by himself." Well, is he supposed to? If the standard is whether a player can win a game by himself, then which NBA player is qualified to be the banner carrier/focal point of attack for his team? Most teams still in play have multiple creators (Rondo, Pierce; Wade, James; Harden, Westbrook, Durant; Parker, Manu). Who did Kobe have? Pau? Who disappeared for the second year in a row? Bynum? Who only played when he felt like it? Metta? Woo wasn't even around for the whole play-offs? Sessions? Who imploded from the bright lights? Blake? Seriously?

    It's easy to criticize and criticize badly when a team loses. But you have to actually look at what's in play.

    No superstar -- and that includes Kobe, Wilt, MJ, Magic, Bird -- playing for a bad coach and teammates who don't step up will come out looking like a guy who can beat all comers.

    And I haven't even gotten to the raw deal #24 gets from the stripped shirts. Even in game when he gets 18 FTs -- if you watch the tape, he could easily have had 8-10 more. That 18 ft game is anomalous given the way he usually get's reffed.

    Finally, whether it's Kobe's team or whomever's team -- I actually don't even think Kobe cares. He just wants to win. But this year proved that -- even if what the OP say is true -- that Kobe was the only guy with the guts and the will to fight to the end, and go down swinging.

    Maybe the only other laker who met him halfway was Metta, for the games he played. Everyone else basically checked out.

    THAT's where the fix remains for this team. Until that is addressed (and I think the failure is a function of BOTH personnel and coach), the lakers will come up short. Asking Kobe by himself to overcome bad officiating, bad leadership from the bench, and weak-hearted teammates is a bit much. And then claiming that because he can no longer do so (BTW, did he ever? Did anyone?) ... is absurd.

    It's true.

    The front office has to make some changes..
  • saracenwiresaracenwire Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2012
    kobe has had the MOST HELP of any top 10 player. More than Wilt,Mj,Kareem,Magic,Bird,Duncan,Hakeem,bill

    The fuck are you talking about. Russell litteraly played with half the damn HOF. Between them, Magic and Bird played with the other half.

    Scottie was one of the 5 best players of the 90s, i guy who came within a horrible foul call of leading the Bulls to the HOF without Jordan.

    The Truth of the matter is The Lakers 00's dynasty is only worst than the Spurs from a talent standpoint. Their first three peat was Shaq & Kobe, and some old dudes who shot threes. Their recent back to back champions were Kobe, Pau and Lamar and thats pretty much it. Bynum was hurt both years, their bench was fucking horrible and they depended on freaking Trevor ariza and ron artest to be outside shooters. Both guys can't shoot.

    kacee139
  • gucci7383gucci7383 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭
    Broussard's Laker trade ideas
    1) Bynum/Sessions for D-Will/Lopez
    and
    2) Gasol for Josh Smith/Marvin Williams
    or
    3) Gasol for Scola/Lowry/Budinger
    Potential lineups:
    D-Will/Blake/Morris
    Kobe/MWP/G'Lock
    Marvin Williams/MWP/Ebanks
    Josh Smith/Hill/McRoberts
    Lopez/Hill/Murphy
    or
    Lowry/Sessions/Morris
    Kobe/G'Lock
    MWP/Budinger
    Scola/Hill/McRoberts
    Bynum/Hill/Murphy
  • DaBullDaBull Posts: 7,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The intriuging thing about Dwight is that he would improve the Defense by MILES!!!!!!!
    he had a team that with jameer nelson, jj redick and turk in the top 5 Defenses in da league based on Him cleaning up their mistakes and his GOAT pick n roll defense. Bynum does it every 7 games, Dwight is everynight!!!!!!! but he dont want to come here so oh well
    kacee139
  • OhPeeOhPee Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kobe has had the MOST HELP of any top 10 player. More than Wilt,Mj,Kareem,Magic,Bird,Duncan,Hakeem,bill

    The fuck are you talking about. Russell litteraly played with half the damn HOF. Between them, Magic and Bird played with the other half.

    Scottie was one of the 5 best players of the 90s, i guy who came within a horrible foul call of leading the Bulls to the HOF without Jordan.

    The Truth of the matter is The Lakers 00's dynasty is only worst than the Spurs from a talent standpoint. Their first three peat was Shaq & Kobe, and some old dudes who shot threes. Their recent back to back champions were Kobe, Pau and Lamar and thats pretty much it. Bynum was hurt both years, their bench was fucking horrible and they depended on freaking Trevor ariza and ron artest to be outside shooters. Both guys can't shoot.


    what? '09 Lakers had one of the best 2nd units in the league. Good enough to reach a 4-6 seed in the Eastern Conf.
    Odom, Farmar, Sasha, Turiaf, Powell, Brown were great pieces to have on the bench.
    kacee139
  • OhPeeOhPee Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ariza was young, athletic and playing for his hometown. He was a great 3pt shooter for the team at the time, I'm still salty about him leaving till this day...
    Artest has been pretty much a disappointment since he's been a Laker...I mean I know he won us that Game 7, but I thought we were getting the '09 Houston Rocket Artest who can drop 16pts a night
    NothingButTheTruth
  • OhPeeOhPee Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    we had shooters in the back 2 back years. Odom was our biggest loss..........
    NothingButTheTruth
  • saracenwiresaracenwire Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    what? '09 Lakers had one of the best 2nd units in the league. Good enough to reach a 4-6 seed in the Eastern Conf.
    Odom, Farmar, Sasha, Turiaf, Powell, Brown were great pieces to have on the bench.

    remember Bynum was hurt, so Odom was starting. The rest of those guys were awful, turiaf wasn't even on the team anymore. You must be thinking about 08 when they lost to the Celtic. The bench played great that year and ended up with the stupid bench mob nickname. They never played that well again. Trevor got hot in the postseason because no one was guarding him. Before that and after that he's been awful. He's shot like 36% in New Orleans. go back and look at the numbers, the Lakers bascially won with three guys.

    For years the Lakers have gotten away with signng average to below average role players to surround Kobe. Then when those guys don't perform everyone acts like Kobe is holding them back.
  • playmaker88playmaker88 You over did it holmes, you in the danger zone, you shouldn't be alone Posts: 46,809 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • peradimeperadime Posts: 59
    I really hope Odom comes back...sixth man of the year when he was there! I was disappointed when they let him go, but then his emotions got to him and made him act like a baby. He should be happy that he was on a team. Pau didn't react like that at least, but I think it's time we trade him...
    NothingButTheTruth
  • Tommy bilfigerTommy bilfiger Posts: 13,120 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2012
    For all the good qualities Bryant showed both in his play and leadership, the Lakers’ start offered a few bad examples that proved too destructible.

    First, involves how he carried the Lakers. (Mike) Brown took a shortcut by leaning too heavily on Bryant’s services. That resulted in Bryant averaging 38.5 minutes per game despite Brown’s numerous proclamations he’s play him between 33-35 minutes a night. It also contributed to Bryant shooting at a 43% clip, his lowest mark since his second year in the NBA. Say all you want about the Lakers’ inconsistent bench and transition period under a new system. But the Lakers would’ve been better served if they worked on finding the perfect balance between Bryant, (Andrew) Bynum and (Pau) Gasol. Instead, Bryant devoted a 27.9% plurality of his shots on isolation shots where he shot only 37.3%. Meanwhile, Brown found no scenarios to limit Bryant’s playing time until a shin injury left the Lakers’ coach with no other choice.

    There were also instances where his high volume shooting hurt the team. Bryant and Brown somehow defended his six-for-28 clip in a New Year’s Day loss to Denver despite Bynum and Gasol going over 60% from the field in that game. Brown first criticized Bryant for shooting nine for 31 in a regular-season loss to Washington, but then quickly apologized even though the film showed they were bad shots. And then in two games of the Lakers-Thunder series, Bryant’s trigger-happy tendencies in the fourth quarter played a huge part in the team’s unraveling.

    The bolded is exactly why the lakers wont win another title until 24 hangs it up

    His bball iq wont allow it he still hasnt learned how to use his 7 footers to his benefit,this is also why shaq and kobe beefed its simple math b,the game is played INSIDE OUT and when kobe outshot shaq in the 04 finals(as usual a terrible 38% fg) ironically the lakers got smashed

    #sledgehammerpost
    NothingButTheTruthkacee139toheeb27MR.CJ
  • kacee139kacee139 Minister of Information (UFO) Gardena, Ca 90249Posts: 2,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • toheeb27toheeb27 Posts: 6,208 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kacee139 wrote: »
    Undercover Laker fan^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    U can mock him all u want, He is right though. I know numbers can sometimes not paint an accurate picture, but these ones compliment what i watched all season. Kobe failed to adjust to the new reality. And unfortunately, we did not have Phil or the Triangle to reign him in.
  • kacee139kacee139 Minister of Information (UFO) Gardena, Ca 90249Posts: 2,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Reading that piece seems like Mike Brown and the bench are the problem
    NothingButTheTruth
  • toheeb27toheeb27 Posts: 6,208 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kacee139 wrote: »
    Reading that piece seems like Mike Brown and the bench are the problem

    There is no doubt that the Bench and Mike Brown are big issues. I just dont like when my fellow Laker fans act like Kobe is blameless. Dude is a part of the problem too.
This discussion has been closed.