Who Do You Think Made The Bigger Impact Of Their Own Genre: Kurt Cobain or Tupac Shakur

plocc · July 2012

Im gonna put it like this. Pac is known more for what he did out of the studio and off stage, while Kurt is known for what he did musically in the studio and onstage. I've never heard anybody say Pac put on a great show. And quit talking bout Pac selling 5 mil in 2 months. It was a double cd and the Thug Life album was pure trash except for the classic, "Straight Ballin". A lotta people put Pac on a pedestal because he was like that one wild, charismatic dude that exists in every neighborhood in every urban area of this country. So in some aspect he's like that cool, dead homey, that we pour out liquor, and get tatoos for. I am a fan of his music but im not dillusional and i aint deifying any rapper, or rocker but I will give credit when its due. Nobody's reply is right or wrong. They're only opinions, and mines is strictly about their impact musically. Tupac's biggest impact is the Thug Life image, while not actually being a thug. Cobain might not have invented grunge, but he lived it. He was the Run-Dmc of grunge. He took it to another level.

thecomebacklegend · July 2012

plocc wrote: »

Im gonna put it like this. Pac is known more for what he did out of the studio and off stage,

stop reading after this quote

so the people in germany build a statue of pac cause what he did out the studio and off stage? FOH. u gotta b droppin classics for people 2 care like that

Law Trafalgar · July 2012

Pac aint drop no classic. Get the fuck out of here.

thecomebacklegend · July 2012

SuperstarCole wrote: »

Pac aint drop no classic. Get the fuck out of here.

still mad pac took over nyc in 96?

Tommy bilfiger · July 2012

plocc wrote: »

Im gonna put it like this. Pac is known more for what he did out of the studio and off stage, while Kurt is known for what he did musically in the studio and onstage. I've never heard anybody say Pac put on a great show. And quit talking bout Pac selling 5 mil in 2 months. It was a double cd and the Thug Life album was pure trash except for the classic, "Straight Ballin". A lotta people put Pac on a pedestal because he was like that one wild, charismatic dude that exists in every neighborhood in every urban area of this country. Tupac's biggest impact is the Thug Life image, while not actually being a thug. Cobain might not have invented grunge, but he lived it. He was the Run-Dmc of grunge. He took it to another level.

Lmao son just dropped a factual sledgehammer on pac groupies heads

No sign on thuglife bein trash thats actually a decent album all eyez on me is super wacc tho

DanknDrank · July 2012

Dear mama
So many tears
California love
Keep ya head up
Brendas gotta baby
...this guy that you speak of in which you say has no classics, those are all his songs, that are not only hiphop classics..but cultural classics as well, so do us all a favor and another method of speaking out of the ass

Your fallible opinion is starting to catch a shitty odor

alphajjc · July 2012

God damn it really can be annoying sometimes seeing people just follow Pac like blind groupies and can NEVER EVER admit flaws that he had.

Nas is my favorite rapper, but even I called him out on here with the whole Gwen Paltrow situation. I also like Pac but it just seems that people keep finding excuses for him.

What is the point of people bringing up album sales constantly?

We can't talk about "impact" without only bringing up album sales?

jono brought up a very good point when he spoke about how Pac technically sold out by moving from the social commentary music he did before in order to do gangsta rap. I never even thought about that before but its a great point.

Alot of us automatically assume that "selling out" means making pop songs but that does not always have to be the case

alphajjc · July 2012

jono wrote: »

One of the problems with this topic is people on a hip-hop website generally have little knowledge of anything outside hip-hop and even less knowledge about an artist that died a long time ago that wasn't a rapper.

A lot of people have boiled this down to a popularity contest (which 2Pac would win easily against anyone because of the tremendous cult of personality built around him) and its not about IMPACT or actual INFLUENCE anymore.

I haven't seen anyone explain how Pac changed hip-hop. Out of all these years nobody, not one person has explained how 2Pac changed hip-hop or what the hell he added to it.

If you got to a rock site and talk about Cobain they can atleast name some legitimate accomplishments Nirvana had, you come to a hip-hop site and nobody can say how 2Pac changed the game? Maybe its because of ignorance, maybe its because he didn't (and he didn't).

As long as this is a popularity contest and not a real discussion on impact and influence its useless doing this. You could exchange Cobain with anyone and get the same reaction Pac vs The Beatles, Pac vs Jimi Hendrix, Pac vs Duke Ellington etc etc the reality is the same, the little knowledge of anyone other than 2Pac and his cult of personality that inflates everything he did beyond context.

Tupac did a few movies all of a sudden he's Denzel Washington, Tupac wrote poems so he's better than Maya Angelou...its just ridiculous.

Lmao damn man you are just shutting down this thread. Lol at the Maya Angelou comment. But seriously though alot of Pac's poetry was very good.

But I definitely see what you are saying. Like I said before I love his music but I have found that there are long periods of time that I purposely take a break from listening to his music because sometimes after reading all the annoying hero worship on urban hip hop websites, it gives me a headache.

It's not so much liking his music, because as a fan of music you can listen to whoever you want to and enjoy as much songs by that artist as you want. The problem is that they constantly dance around his FLAWS and the silly things that he did.

We got people on hip hop forums that spoke about how he was so real and made an impact because he did passionate things like spitting in the face of a cameraman who never even provoked him......I mean seriously get the fuck out of here with that nonsense.

The answer to the thread question is easily Kurt Cobain/Nirvana.

Bawse D.Lox · July 2012

plocc wrote: »

Im gonna put it like this. Pac is known more for what he did out of the studio and off stage, while Kurt is known for what he did musically in the studio and onstage. I've never heard anybody say Pac put on a great show. And quit talking bout Pac selling 5 mil in 2 months. It was a double cd and the Thug Life album was pure trash except for the classic, "Straight Ballin". A lotta people put Pac on a pedestal because he was like that one wild, charismatic dude that exists in every neighborhood in every urban area of this country. So in some aspect he's like that cool, dead homey, that we pour out liquor, and get tatoos for. I am a fan of his music but im not dillusional and i aint deifying any rapper, or rocker but I will give credit when its due. Nobody's reply is right or wrong. They're only opinions, and mines is strictly about their impact musically. Tupac's biggest impact is the Thug Life image, while not actually being a thug. Cobain might not have invented grunge, but he lived it. He was the Run-Dmc of grunge. He took it to another level.

lmao, u don't know what your talking about,
Nirvana came out in 1989 with Bleach that shit failed to chart.
Pearl Jam came out with Ten in 1991, and sold 13 fucking Million they made Grunge popular they paved the way for "Nevermind" to go on to sale 10 milli

but since Kurt died in his prime , u know how that goes, same for 2pac.

really??? 2pac isn't known outside his music or studio???

2pac didn't drop "Me against the World", "All Eyez On Me", Mackaveli" in a time span of one year???

when wayne started to live in the studio, making a new mixtape every month, who did they compared him too???????

when DMX dropped 2 #1 albums in 1 year, who did they compare him too?

what kurt cobain track is in the library of congress???

what kurt kobain track made the pope playlist?

who got classes based on their music, in numerous colleges all over america???

yet 2pac isn't known outside his music???

but here in 2012, Will And Jada kids, and beiber who probably weren't born when pac was alive, are reciting pac verse's, yet Pac isn't known for his music.

Jdilla26 · July 2012

Jdilla26 wrote: »

Hardcore fans of Cobain and 2pac felt they were visionaries, genius, and a Messiah of epidemic proportions. Objectively, we don't know if either artist would prove to be such a genius over time. Whose to say that had either or both artists lived, we wouldn't think of them as washed-up has-beens now?

What makes them similiar died near the height of their popularity. It's easy to remember them as great.

Bawse D.Lox · July 2012

alphajjc wrote: »

God damn it really can be annoying sometimes seeing people just follow Pac like blind groupies and can NEVER EVER admit flaws that he had.

Nas is my favorite rapper, but even I called him out on here with the whole Gwen Paltrow situation. I also like Pac but it just seems that people keep finding excuses for him.

What is the point of people bringing up album sales constantly?

We can't talk about "impact" without only bringing up album sales?

jono brought up a very good point when he spoke about how Pac technically sold out by moving from the social commentary music he did before in order to do gangsta rap. I never even thought about that before but its a great point.

Alot of us automatically assume that "selling out" means making pop songs but that does not always have to be the case

Pac sold out??
how???

nigga started Thug Life in 92'. nigga been catching cases since 91'. when did this nigga sold out???

was it in 93' ????, when he dropped songs like "Keep Ya HEad Up", "Papaz Song"?

or 95' ???? when he dropped songs like "Dear Mama", "Shed So Many Tears", "ME Agianst The WOrld" "Young Niggaz"

or, All Eyez On Me???? when he had tracks like, "Only God can Judge" "I Ain't Mad Atcha", "HEartz Of MEn"," Wonder Y They Call U Bitch". "Shorty wanna be a thug"

or Mackaveli??? with songs like "Blasphemy", "White Mans World", "Hold Ya Head","Smile"*
even in "Hail Mary" had social commentary.

soooooooooooo when did he stray from his social commentary????

even in songs that came out after he died like "Baby Don't Cry", "Letter To The President" "TEar Drops and Closed Casket", "This ain't Living" etc etc. had social commentary.

ShadyWorldOrder · July 2012

plocc wrote: »

Im gonna put it like this. Pac is known more for what he did out of the studio and off stage, while Kurt is known for what he did musically in the studio and onstage. I've never heard anybody say Pac put on a great show. And quit talking bout Pac selling 5 mil in 2 months. It was a double cd and the Thug Life album was pure trash except for the classic, "Straight Ballin". A lotta people put Pac on a pedestal because he was like that one wild, charismatic dude that exists in every neighborhood in every urban area of this country. So in some aspect he's like that cool, dead homey, that we pour out liquor, and get tatoos for. I am a fan of his music but im not dillusional and i aint deifying any rapper, or rocker but I will give credit when its due. Nobody's reply is right or wrong. They're only opinions, and mines is strictly about their impact musically. Tupac's biggest impact is the Thug Life image, while not actually being a thug. Cobain might not have invented grunge, but he lived it. He was the Run-Dmc of grunge. He took it to another level.

Tommy bilfiger wrote: »

plocc wrote: »

Im gonna put it like this. Pac is known more for what he did out of the studio and off stage, while Kurt is known for what he did musically in the studio and onstage. I've never heard anybody say Pac put on a great show. And quit talking bout Pac selling 5 mil in 2 months. It was a double cd and the Thug Life album was pure trash except for the classic, "Straight Ballin". A lotta people put Pac on a pedestal because he was like that one wild, charismatic dude that exists in every neighborhood in every urban area of this country. Tupac's biggest impact is the Thug Life image, while not actually being a thug. Cobain might not have invented grunge, but he lived it. He was the Run-Dmc of grunge. He took it to another level.

Lmao son just dropped a factual sledgehammer on pac groupies heads
No sign on thuglife bein trash thats actually a decent album all eyez on me is super wacc tho

this nicca said All Eyes on me is garbage Really I know niccas entitled to they opinion but seriously

ShadyWorldOrder · July 2012

[

this nicca said All Eyes on me is garbage Really I know niccas entitled to they opinion but seriously

alphajjc · July 2012

Bawse D.Lox wrote: »

alphajjc wrote: »

God damn it really can be annoying sometimes seeing people just follow Pac like blind groupies and can NEVER EVER admit flaws that he had.

Nas is my favorite rapper, but even I called him out on here with the whole Gwen Paltrow situation. I also like Pac but it just seems that people keep finding excuses for him.

What is the point of people bringing up album sales constantly?

We can't talk about "impact" without only bringing up album sales?

jono brought up a very good point when he spoke about how Pac technically sold out by moving from the social commentary music he did before in order to do gangsta rap. I never even thought about that before but its a great point.

Alot of us automatically assume that "selling out" means making pop songs but that does not always have to be the case

Pac sold out??
how???

nigga started Thug Life in 92'. nigga been catching cases since 91'. when did this nigga sold out???

was it in 93' ????, when he dropped songs like "Keep Ya HEad Up", "Papaz Song"?

or 95' ???? when he dropped songs like "Dear Mama", "Shed So Many Tears", "ME Agianst The WOrld" "Young Niggaz"

or, All Eyez On Me???? when he had tracks like, "Only God can Judge" "I Ain't Mad Atcha", "HEartz Of MEn"," Wonder Y They Call U Bitch". "Shorty wanna be a thug"

or Mackaveli??? with songs like "Blasphemy", "White Mans World", "Hold Ya Head","Smile"*
even in "Hail Mary" had social commentary.

soooooooooooo when did he stray from his social commentary????

even in songs that came out after he died like "Baby Don't Cry", "Letter To The President" "TEar Drops and Closed Casket", "This ain't Living" etc etc. had social commentary.

it was alot less than what he did on 2pacalypse

That is the point I am making.

I am not saying that LITERALLY he never made social commentary songs again, I just said that it was alot less than when he first started.

By the way you cannot really say Hail Mary is a social commentary song

plocc · July 2012

Bawse D. Lox. Since your breaking down my post. Read it carefully. I didnt say Tupac wasnt known outside of his music, i said he's more known for antics aside from his music. I also stated that Nirvana didnt invent grunge, they took it to another level.
I hadnt heard of grunge until i started seeing smells like teen spirit on mtv everytime i turned to it. Not Pearl Jam. This thread isnt about Pearl Jam. If you ever watch the Tupac bio. Listen to the people who really knew him like shock g, money b, and some of the people he lived with before he really got. As far as a statue in Germany. Sounds like a bunch of disillusioned fans with too much time on their hands. I can see having one in the bay area, baltimore, or brooklyn where he actually lived, but Germany Cmon son. Dick ridin to the nth degree.

rapmastermind · July 2012

1st if you were born in the 90's I don't think you can really debate this. 2nd since I listen to all types of music, not just Hip Hop, I am fully aware of Kurt's legacy and I like some Nirvana songs. Clearly Kurt had a bigger impact on his genre cause he killed off the "Hair Bands" that ruled rock for the 80's. Also the fact that grunge music fell off after Kurt's death is proof of his overall Impact on his genre, they just haven't recovered from his death.

Pac's impact on Hip Hop can't be understated, he's easily Top 5 all time on everybody's list. He's also Top 5 all time total sales in Hip Hop History. He's one of rap's greatest song writers and skill wise, he wasn't the best in every category but as a complete emcee he was skillful. But Kurt changed rock on a larger scale. No Tupac LP had more impact than "Nevermind" did. Also Nirvana didn't have a lot of material, they prove Quality over Quanity. They only released 3 LP's a few EP's and a live album the rest is all compilations. Where as Pac has had over 10 LP's release. Again Rap hasn't been the best since Pac's death but it survived. Kurt Death ended his sub-genre of rock.

Tommy bilfiger · July 2012

All eyez on me is garbage,the production sucks and sounds dated

If I start quoting lyrics then this shit can get ugly

Ambitionz az a Ridah
All Bout U
Skandalouz
Got My Mind Made Up
How Do U Want It
2 of Amerikaz Most Wanted
No More Pain
Heartz of Men
Life Goes On
Only God Can Judge Me
Tradin War Stories
California Love (Remix)
I Ain't Mad at Cha
What'z Ya Phone #

Disc 2

Can't C Me
Shorty Wanna Be a Thug
Holla at Me
Wonda Why They Call U Bitch
When We Ride
Thug Passion
Picture Me Rollin
Check Out Time
Ratha Be Ya Nigga
All Eyez on Me
Run tha Streetz
Ain't Hard 2 Find
Heaven Ain't Hard 2 Find

The bolded are the only good songs 7 out of 27 songs and big sike bodied tupack on all eyez on me just like he did on cradle to the grave

Get over it

Bawse D.Lox · July 2012

alphajjc wrote: »

Bawse D.Lox wrote: »

alphajjc wrote: »

God damn it really can be annoying sometimes seeing people just follow Pac like blind groupies and can NEVER EVER admit flaws that he had.

Nas is my favorite rapper, but even I called him out on here with the whole Gwen Paltrow situation. I also like Pac but it just seems that people keep finding excuses for him.

What is the point of people bringing up album sales constantly?

We can't talk about "impact" without only bringing up album sales?

jono brought up a very good point when he spoke about how Pac technically sold out by moving from the social commentary music he did before in order to do gangsta rap. I never even thought about that before but its a great point.

Alot of us automatically assume that "selling out" means making pop songs but that does not always have to be the case

Pac sold out??
how???

nigga started Thug Life in 92'. nigga been catching cases since 91'. when did this nigga sold out???

was it in 93' ????, when he dropped songs like "Keep Ya HEad Up", "Papaz Song"?

or 95' ???? when he dropped songs like "Dear Mama", "Shed So Many Tears", "ME Agianst The WOrld" "Young Niggaz"

or, All Eyez On Me???? when he had tracks like, "Only God can Judge" "I Ain't Mad Atcha", "HEartz Of MEn"," Wonder Y They Call U Bitch". "Shorty wanna be a thug"

or Mackaveli??? with songs like "Blasphemy", "White Mans World", "Hold Ya Head","Smile"*
even in "Hail Mary" had social commentary.

soooooooooooo when did he stray from his social commentary????

even in songs that came out after he died like "Baby Don't Cry", "Letter To The President" "TEar Drops and Closed Casket", "This ain't Living" etc etc. had social commentary.

it was alot less than what he did on 2pacalypse

That is the point I am making.

I am not saying that LITERALLY he never made social commentary songs again, I just said that it was alot less than when he first started.

By the way you cannot really say Hail Mary is a social commentary song

if a nigga has a good 3-4, social commentary songs on an album, that has 12-14 tracks. what can u complain about????

2nd off 2pac was always on that gangsta shit, he was born a Panther, why did 2pacalypse Now got banned by the Vice President???
niggaz acting like the whole album was just "Brenda's Got a Baby"

Hail mary is very social commentary song 2 me

and that's not what u said. u said

Pac technically sold out by moving from the social commentary music he did before in order to do gangsta rap.

ShadyWorldOrder · July 2012

Tommy bilfiger wrote: »

All eyez on me is garbage,the production sucks and sounds dated

If I start quoting lyrics then this shit can get ugly

Ambitionz az a Ridah
All Bout U
Skandalouz
Got My Mind Made Up
How Do U Want It
2 of Amerikaz Most Wanted
No More Pain
Heartz of Men
Life Goes On
Only God Can Judge Me
Tradin War Stories
California Love (Remix)
I Ain't Mad at Cha
What'z Ya Phone #

Disc 2

Can't C Me
Shorty Wanna Be a Thug
Holla at Me
Wonda Why They Call U Bitch
When We Ride
Thug Passion
Picture Me Rollin
Check Out Time
Ratha Be Ya Nigga
All Eyez on Me
Run tha Streetz
Ain't Hard 2 Find
Heaven Ain't Hard 2 Find

The bolded are the only good songs 7 out of 27 songs and big sike bodied tupack on all eyez on me just like he did on cradle to the graveGet over it

Matt- · July 2012

nobody listens to alternative music anymore. coldplay and radiohead are what white people listen to now

Bawse D.Lox · July 2012

plocc wrote: »

Bawse D. Lox. Since your breaking down my post. Read it carefully. I didnt say Tupac wasnt known outside of his music, i said he's more known for antics aside from his music. I also stated that Nirvana didnt invent grunge, they took it to another level.
I hadnt heard of grunge until i started seeing smells like teen spirit on mtv everytime i turned to it. Not Pearl Jam. This thread isnt about Pearl Jam. If you ever watch the Tupac bio. Listen to the people who really knew him like shock g, money b, and some of the people he lived with before he really got. As far as a statue in Germany. Sounds like a bunch of disillusioned fans with too much time on their hands. I can see having one in the bay area, baltimore, or brooklyn where he actually lived, but Germany Cmon son. Dick ridin to the nth degree.

dick riding or cultural impact????

Law Trafalgar · July 2012

What the fuck did tupac do to have an impact in Germany may I ask? Did that nigga sprout up a revolution over there?

Law Trafalgar · July 2012

thecomebacklegend wrote: »

SuperstarCole wrote: »

Pac aint drop no classic. Get the fuck out of here.[/quote

still mad pac took over nyc in 96?

I was 3. I doubt I was giving a fuck at the time.

_Menace_ · July 2012

Tommy bilfiger wrote: »

All eyez on me is garbage,the production sucks and sounds dated

If I start quoting lyrics then this shit can get ugly

Ambitionz az a Ridah
All Bout U
Skandalouz
Got My Mind Made Up
How Do U Want It
2 of Amerikaz Most Wanted
No More Pain
Heartz of Men
Life Goes On
Only God Can Judge Me
Tradin War Stories
California Love (Remix)
I Ain't Mad at Cha
What'z Ya Phone #

Disc 2

Can't C Me
Shorty Wanna Be a Thug
Holla at Me
Wonda Why They Call U Bitch
When We Ride
Thug Passion
Picture Me Rollin
Check Out Time
Ratha Be Ya Nigga
All Eyez on Me
Run tha Streetz
Ain't Hard 2 Find
Heaven Ain't Hard 2 Find

The bolded are the only good songs 7 out of 27 songs and big sike bodied tupack on all eyez on me just like he did on cradle to the grave

Get over it

Tommy its time to delete this thread from your "BookMarks" you havent dropped no facts in this whole thread.

Just bullshit and lies accept, now explain how the fuck inst PAC known for his music? you sound completely lost...

Dear Momma got recognized by the damn Library of congress. THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS its not Sam Goody or FYE..... its the fuckin Library of Congress. The only song on AEOM that inst all that is "Whatz Ya Phone #" the Other 26 can easily be singles.

Like I said delete this thread from your bookmarks. Go to the settings on your phone and turn the "Pac Alerts" off. You will never get co-signed for the ignorant/dumb/fairy tale bull shit you drop.

Get The Fuck Outta Here GNS is over there >>>>>

Class Dismissed.

Law Trafalgar · July 2012

Ok, and every song on finally famous could be a single. I don't see where going with this.

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Who Do You Think Made The Bigger Impact Of Their Own Genre: Kurt Cobain or Tupac Shakur

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