NCAA Penalties Against Penn State Thread

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  • mindrightmindright Posts: 2,334 ✭✭✭✭
    R.D. wrote: »
    i hate when these punishments punish the kids indirectly

    NCAA just a bunch of crooks

    tough break, not one F was given for all those kids who were molested for years..

    don't like the sanctions, transfer

    So ILL
  • Matt-Matt- Posts: 21,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hopefully the NCAA will allow players to transfer w/ no penalty more often whenever these types of things come up.
    BlackAX410
  • your flynessyour flyness Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭
    Beside the sanction that are specific to the football program ($60 mil fine, wins vacated...) do the othe sanctions like the scholoarship and post season ban effect the whole athlete program (basket ball volleyball, etc) or just football alone?
  • bgoatbgoat Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Beside the sanction that are specific to the football program ($60 mil fine, wins vacated...) do the othe sanctions like the scholoarship and post season ban effect the whole athlete program (basket ball volleyball, etc) or just football alone?

    Just football.
  • bgoatbgoat Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Matt- wrote: »
    hopefully the NCAA will allow players to transfer w/ no penalty more often whenever these types of things come up.

    No penalty and it doesn't count against the school the are transferring to.
  • So ILLSo ILL Posts: 8,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2012
    MR.CJ wrote: »

    Lol @ "Even if we have 10 wins next season..."

    Penn State ain't gonna be on shit for about the next decade
    purpngold
  • Matt-Matt- Posts: 21,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    n 1987, the L.A. Times ran a lengthy, largely laudatory feature on Joe Paterno. Considering certain recent revelations, there are a couple quotes that are awfully intriguing.

    Paterno had this to say on the SMU death penalty:
    "It's unbelievable to think that kind of corruption came right from the top of the power structure. The NCAA did what it had to do."

    If you thought that was ironic, wait just a minute. Paterno said this at an NCAA convention, in response to accusations that new academic requirements were harmful to black student-athletes:

    "We have raped a generation-and-a-half of young black athletes. We have taken kids and sold them on bouncing a ball and running with the football and that being able to do certain things athletically was going to be an end in itself.

    "We cannot afford to do that to another generation."
    cobblandQ45T
  • R.D.R.D. Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭✭✭
    [quote="Monizzle14;4
    mindright wrote: »
    R.D. wrote: »
    i hate when these punishments punish the kids indirectly

    NCAA just a bunch of crooks

    tough break, not one F was given for all those kids who were molested for years..

    don't like the sanctions, transfer
    problem is this shit has nothing to do with the football team

    Who gets hurt by them taking those scholarships and money? the kids

    the walk ons and player who only got D1 offers from penn state posed to just transfer cause they being punished for something that had nothing to do with them ?

    This is a court matter, not a NCAA matter
  • purpngoldpurpngold Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow Joe Pa left this program/school fucked up. Amazing. They keep losing recruits and can't play in bowl games. PSU boutta fall off the Stratosphere. White girls crying and shit
  • S2JS2J Posts: 15,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    R.D. wrote: »
    [quote="Monizzle14;4
    mindright wrote: »
    R.D. wrote: »
    i hate when these punishments punish the kids indirectly

    NCAA just a bunch of crooks

    tough break, not one F was given for all those kids who were molested for years..

    don't like the sanctions, transfer
    problem is this shit has nothing to do with the football team

    Who gets hurt by them taking those scholarships and money? the kids

    the walk ons and player who only got D1 offers from penn state posed to just transfer cause they being punished for something that had nothing to do with them ?

    This is a court matter, not a NCAA matter

    Nothing to do w/ the football team!?!? For the love of everything sacred...SMH

    The 'kids' (18 n up studnets who can now transfer at any time) ARE NOT VICTIMS. Cut that shyt out man lol

    The reactions of these stuffy 18 yr old kids crying and acting like their next of kin died, just becasue their FOOTBALL team will suck... is appauling. Meanwhile when news broke of this shyt, thye rallied and boycotted for Joe Pa, not for the actual, real victims.

    Its that way of thinking that allowed Joe Pa and the administration to turn a blind eye to this. Man, FUCK the football team. What part of that do people not get? This is bigger than the football team, and the 'kids' i.e. students.

    Those 'kids' still can play college football, have a scholarship (yes, if you already have a scholarhsip, you're good), eat free, free room, board, etc. There is no stipulation that says one must play in the Outback bowl. FOH

    Step back and look at this like a grown up.
  • S2JS2J Posts: 15,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Furthermore...If you play at PSU, you GLADLY accept the benefits of a cushy relationship with Nike, and a national recognition. Not just in football, but all sports get that money, and the whole school reaps the benefits (libraries, facilites, etc.) that come with that.

    You get the perks for the good name, so how you gon cry foul when that name is no longer rosy???

  • coop9889coop9889 Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2012
    s2jepeka wrote: »

    Nothing to do w/ the football team!?!? For the love of everything sacred...SMH

    The 'kids' (18 n up studnets who can now transfer at any time) ARE NOT VICTIMS. Cut that shyt out man lol

    The reactions of these stuffy 18 yr old kids crying and acting like their next of kin died, just becasue their FOOTBALL team will suck... is appauling. Meanwhile when news broke of this shyt, thye rallied and boycotted for Joe Pa, not for the actual, real victims.

    Its that way of thinking that allowed Joe Pa and the administration to turn a blind eye to this. Man, FUCK the football team. What part of that do people not get? This is bigger than the football team, and the 'kids' i.e. students.

    Those 'kids' still can play college football, have a scholarship (yes, if you already have a scholarhsip, you're good), eat free, free room, board, etc. There is no stipulation that says one must play in the Outback bowl. FOH

    Step back and look at this like a grown up.

    How about you take emotion out of it, and use logic.

    When you look at specifically who is responsible for what happened, this is what you get:

    1) Sandusky gets the majority of the blame, obviously.

    2) The next level of blame goes to Paterno, the administrators (vice prez, prez etc..) and anyone else in a position of power who looked the other way when they could have done something.

    After them, NO ONE ELSE IS TO BLAME FOR WHAT HAPPENED. Do you agree or disagree?

    Taking away scholarships, banning from bowls, fining the school etc... doesnt even punish those people above... It punishes the people currently at the school.

    And what dude is trying to say is, why punish anybody other than those whom I've just outlined above??

    Answer that specific question.

    R.D.
  • thefabmd2dcthefabmd2dc Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The student athletes are not being impacted in any way. They go to that school to get an education if they want to go to college to play football in addition to that they can still do that at Penn State with no problem. If they want the glory that comes with playing football in college or a bowl game they can transfer to another school with no limit to the scholarship money the school receives.

    There is no one being hurt by this at all but the butthurt little kids who thinks a football game means more than a child's life being ruined.

  • coop9889coop9889 Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2012
    The student athletes are not being impacted in any way. They go to that school to get an education if they want to go to college to play football in addition to that they can still do that at Penn State with no problem. If they want the glory that comes with playing football in college or a bowl game they can transfer to another school with no limit to the scholarship money the school receives.

    There is no one being hurt by this at all but the butthurt little kids who thinks a football game means more than a child's life being ruined.

    How can you say this when penn state has been docked 80 scholarships? And lol at saying all kids go to college for an education. Nahhh bruh, tell that to the phenom athletes that are pretty much a lock to go to the NFL. How many of them graduating with anything OTHER than a easy psychology or sports marketing degree. How many athletes of all sports leave school early to go pro? That fact alone debunks what you are saying.

    College SHOULD be (in a perfect, fantasy world) about education first, but you'd be extremely naive to believe that it actually IS.

    And you'd have to play college football at a somewhat worthy school to understand what not going to a bowl game means and feels like. That's a huge accomplishment to cap the end of a good season. Otherwise, you are pretty much playing for nothing.

    And not everyone who thinks the punishment was too much thinks football > child's life being ruined. That's not what we're insinuating. We are just saying only punish those individuals directly involved and responsible. Don't cut down the apple tree because of a few rotten apples.
  • R.D.R.D. Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭✭✭
    co sign everything coop is saying

    that was exactly my point.

    if taking 10 scholarships a season doesn't hurt the students, who does it hurt ?

    The media wont tell you how kids are now gonna be told their scholarship has been revoked

    This wasnt a school cover up....it was a few selfish ass people

    You remove them from the equation but dont punish the program when damn near all of them had no idea about it
  • blackrainblackrain Posts: 18,238 Regulator
    coop9889 wrote: »
    The student athletes are not being impacted in any way. They go to that school to get an education if they want to go to college to play football in addition to that they can still do that at Penn State with no problem. If they want the glory that comes with playing football in college or a bowl game they can transfer to another school with no limit to the scholarship money the school receives.

    There is no one being hurt by this at all but the butthurt little kids who thinks a football game means more than a child's life being ruined.

    How can you say this when penn state has been docked 80 scholarships? And lol at saying all kids go to college for an education. Nahhh bruh, tell that to the phenom athletes that are pretty much a lock to go to the NFL. How many of them graduating with anything OTHER than a easy psychology or sports marketing degree. How many athletes of all sports leave school early to go pro? That fact alone debunks what you are saying.

    College SHOULD be (in a perfect, fantasy world) about education first, but you'd be extremely naive to believe that it actually IS.

    And you'd have to play college football at a somewhat worthy school to understand what not going to a bowl game means and feels like. That's a huge accomplishment to cap the end of a good season. Otherwise, you are pretty much playing for nothing.

    And not everyone who thinks the punishment was too much thinks football > child's life being ruined. That's not what we're insinuating. We are just saying only punish those individuals directly involved and responsible. Don't cut down the apple tree because of a few rotten apples.

    First, a Psych degree isn't just some easy major. Ain't like it's Physical Education or Communication like 95% of the Miami Hurricanes and the SEC majors in...second I agree that it's fucked up that those who had the major hand in what happened aren't being punished...but to deny that PSU did not benefit from the cover up isn't true at all. They did benefit from it, had they not there would have been no need to cover this up in the first place. Unfortunately there's no way for people who had nothing to do with this to avoid being affected by the NCAA's punishment. If one of the reasons to not pusish PSU is because students who had nothing to do with the action will get punished as well, then there's not one single punishment the NCAA should ever give out because they ALL affect players/students who had nothing to do with what happened

    You think every member of the Michigan team who got their banners taken away were all guilty or just a few? You think all those USC players were getting houses and cars or just Reggie Bush and a few others? You think every player at SMU was getting a check every week or just Dickerson and the star players? Was EVERY OSU player trading rings for tats or just some? Yet the entire team had to feel the brunt of those penalties, and the entire school had to feel the consequences of the sports programs actions. So PSU is no different and should be treated no different by having the NCAA punish only specific people and make it special just for PSU and to suggest such actually lends more credence to the argument that PSU thinks it is somehow above the same rules as other schools
  • Monizzle14Monizzle14 Posts: 10,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MR.CJ wrote: »

    lol at the students thinking their team was actually about to be good this year before the sanctions...penn state woulda been beef o brady bowl status had they still been bowl eligible this year

    purpngoldSo ILLBlackAX410
  • R.D.R.D. Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭✭✭
    blackrain wrote: »
    coop9889 wrote: »
    The student athletes are not being impacted in any way. They go to that school to get an education if they want to go to college to play football in addition to that they can still do that at Penn State with no problem. If they want the glory that comes with playing football in college or a bowl game they can transfer to another school with no limit to the scholarship money the school receives.

    There is no one being hurt by this at all but the butthurt little kids who thinks a football game means more than a child's life being ruined.

    How can you say this when penn state has been docked 80 scholarships? And lol at saying all kids go to college for an education. Nahhh bruh, tell that to the phenom athletes that are pretty much a lock to go to the NFL. How many of them graduating with anything OTHER than a easy psychology or sports marketing degree. How many athletes of all sports leave school early to go pro? That fact alone debunks what you are saying.

    College SHOULD be (in a perfect, fantasy world) about education first, but you'd be extremely naive to believe that it actually IS.

    And you'd have to play college football at a somewhat worthy school to understand what not going to a bowl game means and feels like. That's a huge accomplishment to cap the end of a good season. Otherwise, you are pretty much playing for nothing.

    And not everyone who thinks the punishment was too much thinks football > child's life being ruined. That's not what we're insinuating. We are just saying only punish those individuals directly involved and responsible. Don't cut down the apple tree because of a few rotten apples.

    First, a Psych degree isn't just some easy major. Ain't like it's Physical Education or Communication like 95% of the Miami Hurricanes and the SEC majors in...second I agree that it's fucked up that those who had the major hand in what happened aren't being punished...but to deny that PSU did not benefit from the cover up isn't true at all. They did benefit from it, had they not there would have been no need to cover this up in the first place. Unfortunately there's no way for people who had nothing to do with this to avoid being affected by the NCAA's punishment. If one of the reasons to not pusish PSU is because students who had nothing to do with the action will get punished as well, then there's not one single punishment the NCAA should ever give out because they ALL affect players/students who had nothing to do with what happened

    You think every member of the Michigan team who got their banners taken away were all guilty or just a few? You think all those USC players were getting houses and cars or just Reggie Bush and a few others? You think every player at SMU was getting a check every week or just Dickerson and the star players? Was EVERY OSU player trading rings for tats or just some? Yet the entire team had to feel the brunt of those penalties, and the entire school had to feel the consequences of the sports programs actions. So PSU is no different and should be treated no different by having the NCAA punish only specific people and make it special just for PSU and to suggest such actually lends more credence to the argument that PSU thinks it is somehow above the same rules as other schools
    A lot of words

    not much was said
  • coop9889coop9889 Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2012
    blackrain wrote: »
    First, a Psych degree isn't just some easy major. Ain't like it's Physical Education or Communication like 95% of the Miami Hurricanes and the SEC majors in...

    Fair enough, substitute psychology with whatever easy degree you want, my point was most athletes choose easy majors.
    blackrain wrote: »
    second I agree that it's fucked up that those who had the major hand in what happened aren't being punished...but to deny that PSU did not benefit from the cover up isn't true at all. They did benefit from it, had they not there would have been no need to cover this up in the first place.

    Nowhere did I ever state Penn State didn't benefit from covering it up. However, if you really think about it, it's all speculation.

    To say they benefited from covering it up is also saying if they didn't cover it up, they would have been in worse position. We can't really say that with 100% certainty. It's not like they knew Sandusky was a pedo when he was hired. You really think that if they immediately fired him at the first signs of his pedophilia, it would've hurt the school's reputation? I don't think so. Therefore it's arguable that they didn't actually benefit from covering it up. Clearly, as we see now, covering it up hurt them in the long run.
    blackrain wrote: »
    Unfortunately there's no way for people who had nothing to do with this to avoid being affected by the NCAA's punishment. If one of the reasons to not pusish PSU is because students who had nothing to do with the action will get punished as well, then there's not one single punishment the NCAA should ever give out because they ALL affect players/students who had nothing to do with what happened

    The underlined is exactly why people say that the NCAA should not have stepped in on this crimnal matter that wasn't a NCAA violation. And the rest of your statement here is not true. My view is if you break an NCAA violation, the NCAA can dole out punishment that they see fit. However in this Sandusky case, no NCAA rules were broken. That's my whole issue. Let the police/courts/judges handle Sandusky and the others...

    blackrain wrote: »
    You think every member of the Michigan team who got their banners taken away were all guilty or just a few? You think all those USC players were getting houses and cars or just Reggie Bush and a few others? You think every player at SMU was getting a check every week or just Dickerson and the star players? Was EVERY OSU player trading rings for tats or just some? Yet the entire team had to feel the brunt of those penalties, and the entire school had to feel the consequences of the sports programs actions. So PSU is no different and should be treated no different by having the NCAA punish only specific people and make it special just for PSU and to suggest such actually lends more credence to the argument that PSU thinks it is somehow above the same rules as other schools

    I bet you in all of those situations pretty much everyone knew what was going on. You think you wouldn't know if your teammates were getting paid handsomely under the table? If you saw your nigga with a new car every other week, you realllllly wouldn't know what was going on? Cmon let's not be naive. And if the players knew their teammates were breaking NCAA rules (regardless of how stupid and unjust those rules are), aren't they turning a blind eye by not reporting it? Is that not the case with Paterno and the administrators?

    But that's besides the point, I'm just saying it should have been beyond the jurisdiction of the NCAA to hand out punishment in this specific case. And it probably is, (that "lack of institutional control" line everyone loves to spew is BS if you do the research) but Penn St won't fight it to not look like complete dicks in the eye of the public.

    Bottom line, the legal system took care of the people responsible. The NCAA punishment didn't even punish the people responsible, so why even do it?
    R.D.
  • S2JS2J Posts: 15,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @ coop and @ r.d.

    Please tell me you do realize they are not TAKING a scholarship away from CURRENT athletes?????

    Its seems as your whole argument is based on that incorrect belief.

    They are reducing the number of scholarhsips able to be OFFERED to future recruits, i.e., kids that arent even at PSU right now. Their are two direct results from that:

    1)YOUR TEAM WILL SUCK

    2) Your school will not make as much money.

    If those 2 thngs = how dare they hurt the kids!, both of you need to step out and see the forest from the trees.
  • S2JS2J Posts: 15,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 'It was only those people's fault, just penalize them':

    smh & lol: Yall can not be that dense or naiive.

    As an employee of a University (or any company for that matter) you represent them in everything you do. I could see if they didnt know about it, but the HIGHEST levels of authority knew about it. They ARE the damn football program. What world do you live in where they would be penalized seperately?? Cmon man lol
  • coop9889coop9889 Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2012
    s2jepeka wrote: »
    @ coop and @ r.d.

    Please tell me you do realize they are not TAKING a scholarship away from CURRENT athletes?????

    Its seems as your whole argument is based on that incorrect belief.

    They are reducing the number of scholarhsips able to be OFFERED to future recruits, i.e., kids that arent even at PSU right now. Their are two direct results from that:

    1)YOUR TEAM WILL SUCK

    2) Your school will not make as much money.

    If those 2 thngs = how dare they hurt the kids!, both of you need to step out and see the forest from the trees.

    How can you say that taking away scholarships doesn't punish current PSU players, and then turn around and say the direct result of taking away scholarships will result in the team sucking. Think about that.

    And my whole argument is based off of 2 points:

    1) The NCAA santions don't punish the individuals responsible AT ALL.
    2) The NCAA shouldn't have been able to even hand out punishment seeing as how no NCAA violations were broken.

    No one has been able to dispute those two facts yet.

    s2jepeka wrote: »
    Re: 'It was only those people's fault, just penalize them':

    smh & lol: Yall can not be that dense or naiive.

    As an employee of a University (or any company for that matter) you represent them in everything you do. I could see if they didnt know about it, but the HIGHEST levels of authority knew about it. They ARE the damn football program. What world do you live in where they would be penalized seperately?? Cmon man lol

    You seem to be misinformed.

    The highest levels of authority were FIRED. The president of the university, the athletic director, the senior VP for business & finance and obviously the coach (Paterno). They are no longer associated with the school. AND they are facing legal charges. Thats how they were penalized separately, and that's all the punishment they needed. (When coupled w/ whatever the courts decide)

    And like I keep saying, since all of them are no longer associated with PSU, any punishment given to PSU now isn't even hurting them, it's hurting people that had nothing to do with it.
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