Official ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC THREAD

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  • ThaChozenWunThaChozenWun Posts: 9,390
    edited April 2010
    He's the one that continues to deceive you.

    "24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will
    ." 2 Timothy 2:24-26

    Why would he decieve us and take us captive, only to continue to allow us to do good? If satan is some evil supervillian I dont see why he wouldnt push us toward hurting people.
  • BiblicalAtheist BiblicalAtheist Prude OutskirtsPosts: 14,355 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    He's the one that continues to deceive you.

    "24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will
    ." 2 Timothy 2:24-26

    Hey! quit usin my questions to further your agenda!!
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven Lover of Jesus Christ and a Minister of reconcilation! Do you know Him? September 23, 2017 Babylon the GreatPosts: 9,991 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    Why would he decieve us and take us captive, only to continue to allow us to do good? If satan is some evil supervillian I dont see why he wouldnt push us toward hurting people.

    He takes people captive by stealing their knowledge of God, Killing their fellowship with God, and destroying their love for God. Without God in your life you are a lost soul. But thanks be to the Lord Jesus Christ that He came to give us life, and life more abundantly! Do you know Him?

    "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10
  • ThaChozenWunThaChozenWun Posts: 9,390
    edited April 2010
    He takes people captive by stealing their knowledge of God, Killing their fellowship with God, and destroying their love for God. Without God in your life you are a lost soul. But thanks be to the Lord Jesus Christ that He came to give us life, and life more abundantly! Do you know Him?

    "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

    So he makes then not believe in god and thats it, he still lets them contribute good things to earth and humanity, doesnt sound like a bad guy honeslty. Hes helping while God takes time each century to do something massive to destroy people and part of the earth.
  • oliverlangoliverlang Posts: 593
    edited April 2010
    EVERYONE has the POTENTIAL to be violent, greedy and jealous. It is only when man finds peace within himself and God perhaps, that he finds such actions are not necessary.

    This also is misleading because what you are essentially saying is that only through god can you find peace within yourself and as a result you will not be violent, greedy, or jealous and that is just not true. In fact, most of the believers I know are the violent, greedy, and jealous type. The non-believers, especially if you consider Buddhist, Taoist, and Confucianists non-believers, are the ones that have let go of their attachments and have not a thread of violence, greed, or jealousy in them. At least are less violent than most believers. For the most part, who are the ones that have have started wars and genocide throughout history? Those killing in the name of god.
  • BOSSExcellenceBOSSExcellence all these dollars.. no sense. Posts: 21,340 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    People are more likely to stay in line when there are laws. And it is because of their fear of punishment whether it be by man or God. Perhaps I lack hope in mankind but without laws and consequences made by humans and the fear of God people would do what they want when they want how they want.

    Another thing question
    It is in mans nature to be violent,greedy, and jealous of others. If these things are in our nature why is it deemed anti-social behavior? Should humans really be held more accountable for their actions than every other form of species that dwell upon the planet?

    FOH they already do that.. then'll say "God'll forgive me"

    this supports my argument that religious people arent good people.. u dont love god.. u fear him.. u do what ur told to not get bitch slapped.. sounds like a pimp and hoe relationship to me..
  • edited April 2010
    Why do good? Why care?

    THis question is stupid as hell. Your making the assumption that without a god, people cant be good.
  • glowyglowy Posts: 3,995 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    CapitalB wrote: »
    FOH they already do that.. then'll say "God'll forgive me"

    this supports my argument that religious people arent good people.. u dont love god.. u fear him.. u do what ur told to not get bitch slapped.. sounds like a pimp and hoe relationship to me..

    Damn .
  • ChikeChike Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    So those who place their loyalty among satan suffer like those who dont?



    What are you talking about? Do you mean "Satan" giving you a false sense of happiness if you sell your soul...
  • GReyrGReyr Posts: 20
    edited April 2010
    'good' is good for me and my friends and family. so i do 'good' because its good for me and my friends. good or bad is subjective. no one action is good for everybody. if i rob you its good for me but obviously not good for you. and if you kill me trying to do it that is good for you and bad for me. good and bad is a myth the bible made and that the media enforces.
  • Ioniz3dSPIRITZIoniz3dSPIRITZ Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    THis question is stupid as hell. Your making the assumption that without a god, people cant be good.

    that is why I asked. If theres anything that I said or asked that doesn't make sense tell me so. I'm learning and accept the fact that my mind is full of contradictions,ignorance, and paradoxes.
  • theillestratortheillestrator Posts: 1,085 ✭✭
    edited April 2010
    I think the problem that some people have is trying to box atheists in a group that doesn't exist. The only common thing about Atheist A and Atheist B is that they don't believe in a deity. They can have completely different motivations in life.
  • GReyrGReyr Posts: 20
    edited April 2010
    I think the problem that some people have is trying to box atheists in a group that doesn't exist. The only common thing about Atheist A and Atheist B is that they don't believe in a deity. They can have completely different motivations in life.

    to me if you are an atheist or agnostic and you aren't a nihilist then there is no reason to say you aren't still a christian. you still have other people tell you what is right or wrong. the world is eternal conflict. and this is 'good' because it drives evolution. the weak die to make room for the strong. it is government and religion that is causing this to go backwards. also a lot of modern technology as well but that is another story.
  • theillestratortheillestrator Posts: 1,085 ✭✭
    edited April 2010
    GReyr wrote: »
    to me if you are an atheist or agnostic and you aren't a nihilist then there is no reason to say you aren't still a christian. you still have other people tell you what is right or wrong. the world is eternal conflict. and this is 'good' because it drives evolution. the weak die to make room for the strong. it is government and religion that is causing this to go backwards. also a lot of modern technology as well but that is another story.

    I see what you are trying to say but that doesn't make a Christian. To be a Christian, there is a pretty huge requirement needed and we know what that is. When I do something that makes me feel good about myself then that's it. If i do something that makes me feel bad,... The Christian good/evil concept is not the only one.
  • iAMNOVAiAMNOVA Posts: 2,493 ✭✭
    edited April 2010
    He takes people captive by stealing their knowledge of God, Killing their fellowship with God, and destroying their love for God. Without God in your life you are a lost soul. But thanks be to the Lord Jesus Christ that He came to give us life, and life more abundantly! Do you know Him?

    "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

    U stay quoting bible verses that have nothin to do with anything...its like circular logic...u never get anywhere
  • GReyrGReyr Posts: 20
    edited April 2010
    I see what you are trying to say but that doesn't make a Christian. To be a Christian, there is a pretty huge requirement needed and we know what that is. When I do something that makes me feel good about myself then that's it. If i do something that makes me feel bad,... The Christian good/evil concept is not the only one.

    ok if you steal something you wanted (whatever it is) from someone who wasn't your friend and you get away with it don't you feel good? or if you get away with hurting someone you really hate you feel good. it's natural. if you don't feel good, it's all social conditioning. back then it was 'the devil' now it's 'antisocial personality disorder'. whether you get it from the bible or your television it is still the same thing. an artificial morality meant to hold people down. picture this. a coyote is chasing a rabbit with the intent of killing and eating it. the rabbit is running away with the intent of surviving and cause the coyote to go hungry. are either good or bad? how can they be when both just want the same things what is best for them. it would be nice if the rabbit converted the coyote to christianity wouldn't it? or vice versa and the rabbit could stop running and sacrifice himself like christ to feed that poor coyote. of course you should be loyal to your true friends and family though. i'm just saying that guilt is not real.
  • iAMNOVAiAMNOVA Posts: 2,493 ✭✭
    edited April 2010
    People are more likely to stay in line when there are laws. And it is because of their fear of punishment whether it be by man or God. Perhaps I lack hope in mankind but without laws and consequences made by humans and the fear of God people would do what they want when they want how they want.

    Another thing question
    It is in mans nature to be violent,greedy, and jealous of others. If these things are in our nature why is it deemed anti-social behavior? Should humans really be held more accountable for their actions than every other form of species that dwell upon the planet?

    those traits are learned...and then exploited thru the system...it kills me when people say things like that...its the nature vs nurture argument...people arent born killing and stealing machines...thats learned behavior...and its perpetuated throughout our society to create an air of competition for various reasons the idealist would say something to the tune of...If we were all truly equal in at least a socio-economic sense and all had access to the resources IE a resource based economy over the present day monetary based one that places emphasis on scarcity and greed causing jealous,discontent and an ever growing feeling of competition and inadequacy ...there would be no greed,jealousy,crime and such...people are atheist for different reason some people see the hypocrisy and dangers in religion,some people just dont believe,some find contradictions....but these people arent bad people just because they dont believe in God...in fact you will find if u ever stop judging people based on their religious grouping that do nothin other than cause a great divide amongst the world...that atheists and agnostics often live a lifestyle more "christ-like" than most christians...and they do it simply because its the right thing to do not for fear of reprise...
  • theillestratortheillestrator Posts: 1,085 ✭✭
    edited April 2010
    GReyr wrote: »
    ok if you steal something you wanted (whatever it is) from someone who wasn't your friend and you get away with it don't you feel good? or if you get away with hurting someone you really hate you feel good. it's natural. if you don't feel good, it's all social conditioning. back then it was 'the devil' now it's 'antisocial personality disorder'. whether you get it from the bible or your television it is still the same thing. an artificial morality meant to hold people down. picture this. a coyote is chasing a rabbit with the intent of killing and eating it. the rabbit is running away with the intent of surviving and cause the coyote to go hungry. are either good or bad? how can they be when both just want the same things what is best for them. it would be nice if the rabbit converted the coyote to christianity wouldn't it? or vice versa and the rabbit could stop running and sacrifice himself like christ to feed that poor coyote. of course you should be loyal to your true friends and family though. i'm just saying that guilt is not real.

    that is totally different. you said that makes you a christian at first...it doesn't. All I am saying is that you don't need a god to have your own concept of good and bad. Whether christians exist or not, with our intelligence level, we were bound to feel certain things were good or bad.
  • GReyrGReyr Posts: 20
    edited April 2010
    that is totally different. you said that makes you a christian at first...it doesn't. All I am saying is that you don't need a god to have your own concept of good and bad. Whether christians exist or not, with our intelligence level, we were bound to feel certain things were good or bad.

    but what i am saying is that morals do exist naturally but they don't apply to everyone. i mean i don't feel bad or guilt about anything i do. because if i felt wrong about doing it i wouldn't do it to begin with. and there are plenty of people i wouldn't hurt or steal from and that i will be loyal until the end to. but like on television they promote this idea that you will or should feel guilty about hurting an enemy. and i would never call another man evil. no man is any more good or evil than i am. and the same goes for you and everybody else. i understand what you mean though.

    amnova you are guilty of what i am talking about. men steal from and kill each other just like animals. as i said the government and laws and religion are all to stop evolution (humans getting better). the weak should die earlier. but the government (like christianity) values weakness more than strength. someone who is mentally retarded is given a check. the strong are supposed to live the longest and reproduce more. and i could go into technology. like how we have already lost instincts animals have because of how 'advanced' we are.
  • Ioniz3dSPIRITZIoniz3dSPIRITZ Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    iAMNOVA wrote: »
    those traits are learned...and then exploited thru the system...it kills me when people say things like that...its the nature vs nurture argument...people arent born killing and stealing machines...thats learned behavior...and its perpetuated throughout our society to create an air of competition for various reasons the idealist would say something to the tune of...If we were all truly equal in at least a socio-economic sense and all had access to the resources IE a resource based economy over the present day monetary based one that places emphasis on scarcity and greed causing jealous,discontent and an ever growing feeling of competition and inadequacy ...there would be no greed,jealousy,crime and such...people are atheist for different reason some people see the hypocrisy and dangers in religion,some people just dont believe,some find contradictions....but these people arent bad people just because they dont believe in God...in fact you will find if u ever stop judging people based on their religious grouping that do nothin other than cause a great divide amongst the world...that atheists and agnostics often live a lifestyle more "christ-like" than most christians...and they do it simply because its the right thing to do not for fear of reprise...

    I agree that people aren't born with these traits. Yet if placed under certain circumstances I think every human has the pontential to revert to such iniquities. I also agree that their are a lot of psuedo-christians especially in the so called "church".
  • Knives AmilliKnives Amilli Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    This conversation has been brought up before but, hypothetically speaking, your in a relationship with and have a child with a Christian/Muslim/Jewish/etc. woman. She knows your an athiest/agnostic, but still wants the child to be raised in her respective religion. Are you going along with it or not?
  • 2Gee4FourRoomz2Gee4FourRoomz Posts: 516 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    IF I was an athiest/agnostic I wouldn't give a fuck If my child went to church or the mosque, I mean fuck it why can't they get some early exposure to some religion and maybe learn a spiritual lesson or two. They don't have to believe in the exact same shit as a christian or whatever but they can still take and learn something from it.
  • fiat_moneyfiat_money Posts: 16,654 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    Unlikely premise, I wouldn't be with a chick who was a devout theist. As for the kid, they'd be taught to think for theirself, so they could subscribe to a religion if they wished to.
  • tangible thoughtstangible thoughts Posts: 312
    edited April 2010
    dont really care, cause i was brought up as a catholic but than realized that it wasnt for me. so i would let my wife raise our children through her religion and see how they takei t
  • Chillin&PostinChillin&Postin Posts: 3,057
    edited April 2010
    if an unmarried theist lets me hit raw i am not respecting her
This discussion has been closed.