hnic1978 wrote: »

If u wanna debate how great BIG is??? Biggie died in 1997......why is he still mentioned more than 90% of the rappers that are out today???? dont worry ill wait......

Also if you are a new rapper. It's a right of passage to use Biggie's lyrics in your songs. Kendrick, J Cole and Meek Mills debut albums had Biggie lyrics or references. I mean this September is "Ready To Die's" 19th Anniversary. How can an album be damn near 20 years old and still sound that good and not be a classic or masterpiece? "Life After Death" just made Vibe's list of the best album in the last 20 years. I mean his music and verses have aged so well it's crazy.

Sion pretty much summed it up but it's 16 years later. Legendary Rappers have larger catalogs like Rakim, Cube, Pac and NaS. But Big is the same status as them with less albums, less verses that has to say something. He's the most bitten rapper of all time. How is someone with such a less amount of material lyrically bitten that much?. "Ready To Die" literally was the straw that brought the East back to dominance in the mainstream. "Life After Death" created the non-regional blueprint that is still being copied till this day. Jay Z is considered the Top rapper in the game today and he's basically Biggie's Disciple. NaS came out the same time as Big and even dropped an album that can go toe to toe with both Big albums in "ILLmatic" but even NaS was outshinned by Big while he was alive. Pac is iconic and probably Rap's best artist ever.

But even Pac himself was completely taken a back by Biggie's skills to the point he wanted Biggie in his crew before the beef. Biggie is the GOAT based solely on Skill level. He's the complete Emcee. He basically had no weakness on the mic. Lyrics-tight, Flow-tight, Delivery-tight, I mean I could go on for days. Sure Some may argue Big's subject matter wasn't "Worldly" but he was a storyteller, he wanted to paint a picture. He didn't need to rap about politics or social injustice cause he wasn't trying to change the world. He was just trying to tell a story. Within his bars are social commentary though. "Ready To Die" does have a moral that shows that a certain lifestyle ends you up in jail or dead. "Life After Death" talked about success and the trappings of that success.

Biggie's albums continue to make Greatest of all time list. Both of his albums aren't just Great Rap albums but Great albums amongst any genre. He's work with some amazing artist in his career like Michael Jackson and Tupac. He was respected amongst his peers and the ones that did have a problem with him all respect him today. I understand that not everyone will agree Big is the GOAT. I happen to think Hip Hop is made up of several GOATS not just one. But Big is a great representative of what any rapper should strive for. If you are an emcee you have to go to Biggie University to get some lessons. Like Big said:

"Dumb Rappers needs teachin, Lesson A, Don't fuck with B.I., that's that, Oh I thought he was Wack, oh come, come now"

Seriously Biggie can go toe to toe with any Emcee in History. When Biggie got on a track with Bone Thugs it was wrap. His "Notorious Thugs" verse is just one example of his GOAT STATUS. Big could rap with anyone, any style, any beat and still come out with a memorable verse:

Blacks Created Rock N Roll:



(Elvis though he's a Legendary artist, is called the King of Rock N Roll in an industry that shut out black artist from radio. This lead to Blacks leaving the genre all together and now Whites dominate the genre and are called the Greatest Artist of all time. Great Bands from Led Zepplin, Areosmith, Metallica, The Beatles etc have all admitted Black Artist had influenced them at some point yet Rock N Roll is considered White today. The only saving Grace is the fact Jimi Hendrix though he had limited material and died young is still considered the Greatest Gutair Player of all time. Little Richard is also finally getting the true credit he deserves as one of the God Fathers of Rock N Roll)


Blacks Created Jazz:



(Kenny G is a wonderful and talented artist but he is the highest selling Jazz artist of all time. His album "Breathless" is the highest selling Jazz album of all time. Black Jazz players never reached the same success that Kenny G has dispite creating the genre. A long list of Black Legends have been completely overlooked by white and mainstream audiences)


Blacks Created Disco:



(Though there were tons of great Black Disco artist and singers. The Iconic Legendary Group The Bee Gees surpassed them all in sales and success. Don't get it twisted, The Bee Gees were great artist but they completely outshinned their black counterparts in the Disco Era. There were Black Signers like Gloria Gainer and Diana Ross who were successful during Disco though)


Blacks Created Techno:



(Techno was created by Blacks in Detroit. It later expanded worldwide and now Whites dominate the genre. From Daft Punk to Moby to Paul Okenfold. White DJ's are making millions off the genre while Blacks have pretty much abadon the genre. Techno also created so many subgenre's including "House" and "Electronic Dance" music.)


Blacks Created Country Music:



(Blacks were instrumental in the creation of Country music as it was Blacks that brought the instrumentation that Country artist still use till this day. "The Banjo" was the instrument used by Blacks in the south that use to sing "Old Negro Spirituals". Though White Europeans were there during it's origins, Blacks never got their full credit in creating Country music. The biggest selling Country artist are all White including Garth Brooks, Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson, Shina Twain, The Dixie Chicks and Taylor Swift)


Blacks Created Hip Hop:









(What was called a Fad by Whites in America became a worldwide cultural phenomenon when DJ's from urban communities took Disco Records and spit poetry over them while breakdancing and spray painting walls in the ghettos of New York City. Once Run DMC came out Hip Hop became huge in America. But dispite the success of Black Artist who created the genre. Hip Hop didn't hit #1 on the charts until 3 White Boys called "The Beatie Boys" came out with their debut album "Licence To ILL". It's considered the 1st #1 Hip Hop album. MC Hammer took the Hip Hop and Pop world by storm with his #1 hit LP "Hammer Please don't hurt em". But Hip Hop didn't get it's 1st #1 single until a White Boy from Flordia "Vanilla Ice" dropped "Ice, Ice, Baby". Eminem recently surpassed Tupac as the Highest Selling Rapper of All Time with less album also. He is also the 1st rapper to win an Oscar. The Beastie Boys and Eminem are talented and Legends of the genre. Vanilla Ice was a fraud. Why is it that White Rappers have broken some of the biggest records in Hip Hop?)



So in conclusion. Scarface is 100% right. Hip Hop has lost it's idenity. I like how he also took blame and wasn't just pointing figures. Rap fans today just don't understand how unbalanced the game is. How can anyone say Hip Hop today is "What the people want" are you kidding? Most of the stuff pumped out is specifically by labels who only want us to Get high, have sex and commit crimes. Say what you will about White Execs always being in Hip Hop but back in the day, White Execs cause they didn't understand the artform let rappers release the music they wanted to. White Exec didn't get in the way of the art back in the day. Sure they gave Rappers some terrible slave deals but the art was compromised. Forever shoot em up, bang Bang rap song. You had conscious emcees spitting knowledge. You had balance.

I honestly don't even blame kids or this generation cause they just don't know any better. They think all this ignorant rap is the truth. Look, they are only pumping up 1 Female rapper right now. In the 80's and 90's and even early 2000's you had several females doing it. The point is Face is 100%, Rap not only is lacking quality and balance but Record Execs have destroyed the genre with their formulas and menstrual shows they put on radio and TV. It's one thing to have that and mix it with other content. It's another to only play that mess and push it off as "This is what the people want". Half the stuff ya'll calling "HOT" is flopping all over the place so don't give me "This is what people want" cause it's not.

Hip Hop has no balance and you know what, like all the Genre's I named White will take it over eventually cause we have lost our Identity. So if you look at history, White America has taken Black musical Artforms and taken them over. It's happen to damn near everything but RnB and Hip Hop, those are the last 2 Black Artforms that haven't been all the way taken over. Also for the record, I understand that music sees no color and everyone can enjoy the music they want. But Black People have given so much to music as an artform and they don't get the rightful historical credit they deserve. It's sad Blacks grow up today hating Rock N Roll and Techno, two genre's we created.

buttuh_b wrote: »

ohhhla wrote: »

@D_Rap_Scholar

Making a good argument but rapmastermind always wins for some reason.

Fuck outta here. D Rap just sonned that whole retarded ass "appealing to everyone" bullshit they spewed. You wanna talk about appealing to everyone? All Eyez On Me don't sound like no damn west coast album. It delivered bigger and better hits than LAD and it only had one bad song. Also touched on a variety of topics yet it's not a top 50 album of the last 20 years. Watch The Throne is better than Me Against The World doggy? Fuck this bogus ass list. Since when was LAD in contention for a GOAT album? It ain't even Big's best album b. What Rapmastermind described was a great album but not some shit that prevailed over everything else. That album didn't "wow" you.

Real talk D Rap Scholar went the F*ck in on me just now. He brought some great points to the debate. Also "All Eyez on Me" is a West coast album. Most of the production was handled by Johhny J, Quik, Daz and Dre. It had a westcoast sound. That's the biggest difference from Big and Pac's double albums. Pac made a Westcoast album but Big album went beyond the Eastcoast as far as sounds and style. Also "LAD" "Hits" were just as successful as "All Eyes on Me" hits. I mean "LAD" did go Diamond before "All Eyes On Me". Also how can you say "LAD" didn't "Wow" people? That album is still blowing people away with it's quality. Who wasn't floored when they heard Big on "Notorious Thugs"? Who didn't get goosebumps when they 1st heard "Your nobody"? Let's not get into Big's storytelling and ripping those Premo beats to shreds. "Hypnotize and Mo Money" still blaze dance floors till this day. "Sky's the Limit" like "Juicy" before gave Big another inspriational anthem. "Life After Death" has always been in the GOAT album discussion but most people rank "Ready To Die" and "ILLmatic" above it. I think Pac dropped 3 back to back Classics. But only Me Against The World Is seeing Big's Best work to me.

Here's a post a did awhile back when someone asked why did "Life after Death" debut on the charts at #176 before it's street date:

rapmastermind wrote: »

Nope according to Billboard Historians. "Life After Death" was so anticipated that stores were selling it illegally before street date at a rate that Billboard had to report it. That's why it had the Largest Jump in Billboard History. It charted at 176 off street date violations. So Basically Biggie was the 1st artist to chart before their street date. I believe they changed the rules after. It was certified Platinum after it's 1st week as it sold close to 700k. It was the highest selling opening week for Arista Records until Usher's "Confessions". So today 16th Anniversary of it's release. Here are some more "Life After Death" facts:

*Largest Jump in Billboard Top 200 Albums Chart History, 176 to #1
*2nd Rap album to be certified Diamond after MC HAMMER "Please don't hurt em".
*Guinness Book of World Record Entry 2000, 1st Hard Core Hip Hop album to be certified Diamond
*15 Million Record Sold Worldwide
*"Hypnotize" and "Mo Money, Mo Problems" made Biggie the only artist in Hot 100 History to have two Posthumous #1 songs.
*"Notorious Thugs and F*ckin U Tonite" both charted on the RnB charts off airplay alone.
*"Hypnotize" went Platinum, "Mo Money Mo Problems" Went Platinum and "Sky's The Limit/Goin Back To Cali" went Gold.
*After a Record Breaking 11 Weeks at #1 for "I'll be Missing You" which was a Biggie tribute. "Mo Money, Mo Problems" ended it's reign and stayed #1 an additional 2 weeks.
*The album finished the Year as the Top RnB/Rap album of the year on Billboard.
*Life After Death has been featured on over 50 Greatest albums of all time List including Rolling Stone and The Source Magazine. (Now add Vibe to that list)
*According to Who Sampled.Com "Life After Death" has been sampled over 200 times from it's production and lyrics which makes it one of the most influential albums of all time.



"Life After Death" 3/25/97-3/25/13 16 years of later and it's still Legendary