our next president tis either going to be .....
a lying mentally unsound, failed businessman turned reality tv star OR
an unethical war hawk with ties to some of the worst ppl on the planet ....who is currently being investigated by the FBI for what she claims is a non issue even though she has gone to great lengths to cover her tracks
Wasn't Obama under investigation for ties to Tony Rezko and also Rob Blagoavich ? Reverend Wright and also Goldman Sachs ?? Oh how niggas luuuuhhh to forget (or choosy). The objective is to win LOLOLOLOLOL, if you were being harassed, under attack and trying to win the presidency (or debating) I refuse to believe you'd simply give niggas the okey doke.
I say all that to say this is politics and there's never been a candidate who ran and never had a record ppl tried to use against them. Kennedy was under investigation for mob ties to Sam giacanna, Bush had ties to Osama Bin Laden family, Daddy Bush and the Skull & Bones crew, Johnson and brothel owners, Nixon/Kissinger, on and on I can go. Shit imagine the things that will come out when Will Smith runs for President.....
Men and women can both believe in misogyny and uphold it.
Unfortunately, yall did not give @Cunt_Lyfe a chance to educate on a subject that she has her degree in and in the trenches about it.
Learning does not come with debate but actively listening. Researching and then engaging.
You all really missed the point.
And the women in here supporting misogyny.
It is not about relationships between men and women but to actually see the misogynoir that happens to you as a black woman in a patriarchal male dominated society.
It is different.
You see feminism as a white woman thing.
I suggest you read kimberlee crenshaw, Alice walker, and others on the topic of womanism and intersectional discrimination that black women face in a world of anti-blackness and sexism.
And elzo. You spelled misogyny wrong in the thread title.
You can't possibly believe that anything good could come from coming out of the gate and telling a bunch of black men that they are all misogynists and that they hate black women. If that's how she was taught to engage in this subject matter, then her degree isn't worth the paper it was printed on.
And you bring up her degree, and forgive me if I missed it, but I don't see where she presented any vetted and documented information. You were the first to do that. Also, I'm going to just disagree with part of your premise. You are probably right. There are unique issues that black women face that black men don't understand. The only way we as black men can understand is to listen and learn. However, this stance that you guys keep taking that we aren't allowed to openly engage in this discussion until we're experts on the stuff that you're pushing is problematic. I'm not saying the information you're providing doesn't have merit. Some of it is factual revelation of the issues faced by women. However, some of it is subjective such as the culpability you choose to apply to men on this site, and when you open the discussion with those accusations, you should expect to get a response. Basically, there are points that can be argued because not all of what you and some of the other women are pushing are objective facts.
Case in point, @desertrain10 provided a list of things that should be done to combat misogynoir. Those things are not objective facts that we men need to be educated on. Those are opinions held by feminists and opinions. And we don't need to be experts in misogynoir to discuss opinions.
I was asked for my OPINION in regards to what I thought could be done to combat/address misogynoir in the blk community? specifically what blk men could do
that said, i believe we live in a society that often seeks to rob women of their agency and perpetuates hatred towards women, particularly those who offends the white, male, patriarchal gaze ...and I gave my opinion as to what I thought should be done about it...
nothing more, nothing less
and actually a lot of what I speak is echoed in the articles @purr posted
if you are referring to my stance on abortion, i'm not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking. people are free to have their own opinions. my point was that, regardless of intent, if we make abortion illegal we would be forcing pregnant women to carry children to term they don't want. and that is effectively stripping away a woman's right to do as she pleases with her reproductive organs. its just that black and white.
i haven't always been on the right side of the aisle, but i like a lot of women would be ok with giving men the right to abort their financial obligations to their child before its conception
then some of the same politicians and contingencies who oppose abortion aren't fans of the pill either. they along with others oppose the idea of birth control and or support the idea that birth control should not be covered by health insurance, arguing its sinful. but what they really mean is women are only meant to be baby receptacles for their husbands. never do they consider that birth control is often times used for a variety of medical conditions not just as a contraceptive
sadly we as a society entertain this garbage. and you know how it hurts the most? women of color
in regards to welfare reform, i was referring to our support of the politicians who were pushing this narrative that it was welfare that created black single mothers. and that there was this large contingent of blk women having tons of babies, only to push their fathers out the home, just to get a welfare check. these single mothers, rather then structural barriers and racism, were the real architects of american ghettos. even today we regurgitate the toxic rhetoric. i bring this up because i believe SOME of the support and this need to see certain women suffer "because they need to be held responsible for their actions" , even if it counterproductive/ means their children will suffer as well, is fueled by self hate and misogyny
which brings me to my next point, i think we need to redefine what it means to be a man. a lot of ppl associate masculinity most with domination, hyper-sexuality, physicality and material wealth. shunning all things feminine. obviously this can be problematic, especially for members of marginalized communities. this can help to explain why women of color are at a greater risk of being abused by an intimate partner. and how most black women murdered are murdered by men and most blk women murdered are nearly always killed by men they know intimately
I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't knocking you. I was pointing out that for matters like this, all you guys can do is give opinions. @purr is basically telling us that we can't engage with you guys until we shut up and are educated by you guys. But you can't educate us with your opinions. You have to tell us your opinions on how things can be fixed and allow us to discuss.
As for your opinions, I don't really agree with most of what you say because I feel its very biased and completely misses the male side. It's not that I think that what you're saying is unreasonable. I don't. I just think that there needs to be a back and forth in order to get to a solution. That's how you solve problems. You don't tell one side to shut up and acquiesce.
But yeah society sets up stupid contradictions. I'm not outright against abortion but I'm not a fan of it. That said anyone who is outright against abortion but also against contraception is an idiot. And not allowing birth control to be put on insurance hurts men too. After all, there might not be nearly as many dudes with their pockets being drained if women could have that kind of access to birth control.
Lastly, I'd agree that we need to be more mindful of what we teach men. The hypersexuality and overagression hurts us just as much as it hurts you. However, some of you are going overboard. As men, we should be strong and we shouldn't be forced to embrace femininity in ourselves. The education system is already trying to redefine how boys are raised and taught. It's stamping out everything that benefits boys and pushing what is beneficial to girls. The results of that pretty much across the board is that boys are falling behind in school and no longer thriving. That's why you see all the initiatives to get schools for boys. It's not because people are against girls. It's because society is trying so hard to overcorrect for the injustices shown towards women that it's hurting boys. You feminists don't see that because you don't care about that. It doesn't fit your agenda, and you'd never see it without active discourse with men.
OK misogynoir exists what are the plans to realistically stop it???? it cannot be stopped because it's existence is based on female FEELINGS.
Every time a black women feels a little disrespected or marginalized she becomes a victim of misogynoir SO HOW THE FUCK are we going to create a world in which black women are never disrespected or marginalized??? it's fucking impossible.
this is the basis of the thread
Sorry to say it, but it's a reality. I've made peace with the fact that many dudes don't actually want to destroy white supremacy--they want a seat at its table. So they'll adopt toxic masculinity towards Black women as if it's a weapon in order to gain a semblance of power that doesn't and will never exist under the current system.
Look, misogynoir is political, economic, and social. People are socialized to see Black women as the enemy, which is why you have men in here saying that Black women who address it are traitorous and can't be trusted when they call attention to it. Black women are being incarcerated at a high rate. Black transgender women are impoverished, harassed, and killed by transmisogynists. Black women's sexual agency is stripped from them--case in point, that's why you have nude exposures, shaming of sex workers, and criminalization of Black women in that industry. Black single mothers are routinely shamed for their own poverty and the cutting of the social safety net.
What I want is for niggas who understand this to talk to other men who perpetuate this and see how gender intersects with race when we talk about the current movement. Challenge them on what they say. You have to put your allyship to Black women into practice.
thiss is a start.....
SO you think talking to men about changing the way they make women feel is going to make mysogynoir go away or be less of a problem. so you don't have a problem with making men slaves to women's feelings.
the premise of this thread is asking women how they d like us to rectify this issue
I don't think black women have an answer at least not a realistic one that keeps our manhood and freedom intact.
You can begin by taking a step back and reflecting on how your subtle everyday attitudes affect the hostile environment in which blk women find themselves today
no offense but u are a black woman right?