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Kirby and Lee, The Greatest of All Time

Maximus Rex
Maximus Rex Pulchritudo in Conspectu RegisThe EmpreyanMembers Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 2011 in Quite Comical
I've often thought who was the greatest and most influence of comic book creators. I thought that Siegal and Shuster might of been the greatest and most influence, simply because they invented the character that gave birth to the medium. Without, Superman, one can make the argument that there's probably a chance that you wouldn't have comics in the way we know them today. In some ways, you say that all heros bare resemblence to Supes, whether it's the spandex, usings the powers for good, and assuming a secret identity. All these things have their origins with Superman.

Finger and Kane, created what is arguabley the greatest of superheros and the first antihero so to speak. Even after The Bat-Man's debute, for a very long time their wasn't a character who's origin that was marred in the tradegy that created The Bat-Man, (or of that of his first side kick, Robin.) Bat-Man's greatness lies in that he is a sheer force of will. Everything he does and has trained himself to is result of his obessive desire to avenge his parents' death and prevent people from experiencing the tramua that he experienced as a child and still is coping with as an adult. The Bat-Man gave birth to characters like The Punisher, Wolverine, Lobo, and Guy Gardner.

The about Siegal, Shuster, Funger, and Kane. Outside of creating the iconic characters in comics, they really didn't go anything else. Other than characters in Supes, and The Bat-Man's respective "families," they didn't create anybody else or impact the medium. The excpetion being that Siegal created the Spectre and Bill Finger created the original Green Lantern.

Most vote for the greatest comic book creators of all time goes to Stan "The Man," Lee and Jack "The King," Kirby. Lee and Kirby are the comic book equivalent to The Beatles, when FF number#1 dropped and the Marvel Age was born, Lee and Kirby effectly changed the way people inside of the industry thought and perceived the way a story should go. Even though with the Silver Age started a few years before with the retcon of The Flash, characters still one diminisional. Heros were heros becasue they were good people and that's what heros did. Lee and Kirby cahnged that.

There was internal strive within teams, for example Johnny didn't get along with Ben. The Hulk was a misanthrope and hated humanity. The X-Men though they used their powers to benefit mankind, they were "feared and hated," by the world they had sworn to protect. Peter Parker was a sophmore in high school, that was an introverted nerd. Initially, Peter didn't want to fight crime, he wanted to use his powers to make money as an entertainer. In one of those early Spidey stories, Peter attempted to join the FF, but changed his mind when he found out the FF was a non profit.

Stan Lee added a diminsion to comic book characters that was never seen before. They weren't always happy, they didn't always get along, and as in the case of Peter Parker and The Hulk, they weren't always altruistic. Even though they had superpowers, they were people that had everyday problems. Especially, Peter Parker.

To strengthen my argument for Kirby and Lee being the G.O.A.T. in the comic book realm. Not only did they create iconic characters, they CREATED A WHOLE 🤬 UNIVERSE!!!! It's easier to figure out the characters Leeand Kirby, DIDN'T create as oppose to the ones they did create. There isn't writer or a penciller in the industry who doesn't site Stan Lee and Jack Kirby as an influence. Jack Kirby also gave us The New Gods, (for those who don't know, that's Darkseid,)

To meet Stan Lee at a con costs about $400 dollars, you are guranteed an autograph though. I want Stan Lee to sign my McFarlene Spidey poster with the following inscription:

4846204982ddc_38118b.jpg

To King, always remember that with great power, there also must come great responsbility. From the co-creator of your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man Stan Lee

I also have this poster:

Marvel_Heroes_Full_Cast_Poster.jpg

On this one, I want him to put "I created damn near every character on this poster. 'Nuff Said". Stan Lee. Plus Stan Lee's autograph would look the really cool with Clarmont's, Lee's, and Texeria, ( I already had them sign it.

There's also this matter. Way back in the 90's I had a chase to go to a Jack Kirby instore. I should've went simply because it was Jack Kirby. I didn't go for whatever reason. I was like "🤬 it." Kirby does instores, so I'll just catch him at the next instore or Woncon. Six months, later I was looking through some Image books I had bought, then I get to "In Memory Of Jack Kirby," ad. I was "Damn, dude was just here." As 🤬 up as it may sound, being that Stan Lee is hella old, I want to meet him and get his autograph before he dies.

Comments

  • NAWLEDGE_REIGNS
    NAWLEDGE_REIGNS Members Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2011
    Lee And Kirby Should Get This Just For Creating So Many Classic Characters Especailly In The Early 60's But Alan Moore Is The GOAT Comic Book Writer IMO
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Pulchritudo in Conspectu Regis The EmpreyanMembers Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I also have this poster:

    MarvelPoster-1-1.jpg

    On this one, I want him to put "I created damn near every character on this poster. 'Nuff Said". Stan Lee. Plus Stan Lee's autograph would look the really cool with Clarmont's, Lee's, and Texeria, ( I already had them sign it.

    There's also this matter. Way back in the 90's I had a chase to go to a Jack Kirby instore. I should've went simply because it was Jack Kirby. I didn't go for whatever reason. I was like "🤬 it." Kirby does instores, so I'll just catch him at the next instore or Woncon. Six months, later I was looking through some Image books I had bought, then I get to "In Memory Of Jack Kirby," ad. I was "Damn, dude was just here." As 🤬 up as it may sound, being that Stan Lee is hella old, I want to meet him and get his autograph before he dies.

  • Broddie
    Broddie just me and my bitch NYCMembers Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    I'm sorry but I can't really put Kirby and Lee in the same class despite their co-creations. Kirby was just way ahead of Lee in terms of imagination and pure creativity. He's more on the level of a Will Eisner.

    I mean aside from co-creating Captain America with Joe Simon and then his silver age Marvel work with Lee the man helped bring Sandman into prominence. His revolutionary Manhunter, OMAC and Fourth World work speaks for itself. As does some of the other greatest concepts the comics medium has ever seen like Challengers of the Unknown, Kamandi, The Newsboy Legion and The Demon.

    Nobody was more accomplished than the King. This is why next to Grant Morrison he has easily been the most influential comic book creator on my imagination.
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Pulchritudo in Conspectu Regis The EmpreyanMembers Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    Broddie wrote: »
    I'm sorry but I can't really put Kirby and Lee in the same class despite their co-creations. Kirby was just way ahead of Lee in terms of imagination and pure creativity. He's more on the level of a Will Eisner. I mean aside from co-creating Captain America and his Marvel work with Lee the man helped bring Sandman into prominence. His revolutionary Manhunter, OMAC and Fourth World work. As well as Kamandi, The Newsboy Legion and The Demon. Nobody was more accomplished than the King. This is why next to Grant Morrison he has easily been the most influential comic book creator on my imagination.

    Also, there's like that stretch in between the Golden and Silver, that is often slept by a lot of fanboys that is considered Kirby and Simon's as being as one of their most creative when they were doing romance comics.
    Broddie wrote: »
    This is why next to Grant Morrison he has easily been the most influential comic book creator on my imagination.

    So you're saying that Grant Morrison is more influential than

    Alan-Moore-008.jpg

    Comics equivalent to the Mad Rapper.

    Broddie, are you up on Kevin Smith's Fatman on Batman podcasts? Smith did a four interview with Morrison. The 🤬 Morrison was talking about how he went to Kathmandu, had a spiritual awakening, came home, did some psychedelic drugs, and proceeded to write Batman: Arkham Asylum, The Invisibles and Doom Patrol. I remember when dude was on Animal Man everybody was saying how great that book was and it was something that I've always wanted to read.

  • Broddie
    Broddie just me and my bitch NYCMembers Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2015

    So you're saying that Grant Morrison is more influential than

    Alan-Moore-008.jpg

    Comics equivalent to the Mad Rapper.

    To me personally yes he has been.

    I love a lot of Alan Moore's stuff. From Top Ten, Miracleman and Supreme to Tom Strong and of course his landmark DC works like his run on Swamp Thing and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. The thing with Moore is as the years have gone by especially his works have just become way too derivative of themselves and he borders on self parody now a days.

    Not that it's a bad thing because Alan Moore doing Alan Moore is still better than most other people trying to be Alan Moore. He's just too far into his comfort zone and his bitterness has influenced his later work in such a negative way that it doesn't really resonate with the same sense of wonder and awe that a lot of Morrison's work does.

    Morrison always challenges himself and pushes himself out of his comfort zone with a sense of optimism and not pessimism like Moore tends to do. Whether it's handling iconic superheroes like the Batman, X-Men or Superman. More ambitious and out of the box concepts like The Invisibles, WE3, Seaguy and The Filth. Or more obscure characters like Animal Man, Seven Soldiers and the Doom Patrol. A lot of his work does not read the same at all but still unquestionably reads like a labor of love and is definitely on a greater level in terms of imagination and execution than a shitload of his peers.

    The way he meticulously works with his artists (to the point of creating layouts himself) and the way he interweaves Eastern philosophy and quantum psychics with more mainstream comic book concepts is second to none; and speaks to me on a greater level because unlike with Moore in my life I actually share a lot of the same wordly ideals and overall outlook on superheroes and the greater comic book medium that Morrison does.

    Broddie, are you up on Kevin Smith's Fatman on Batman podcasts? Smith did a four interview with Morrison. The 🤬 Morrison was talking about how he went to Kathmandu, had a spiritual awakening, came home, did some psychedelic drugs, and proceeded to write Batman: Arkham Asylum, The Invisibles and Doom Patrol. I remember when dude was on Animal Man everybody was saying how great that book was and it was something that I've always wanted to read.
    You're doing yourself a huge disservice by not having read his Animal Man run yet. Seriously.

    As for Kevin Smith. I grew up on his earlier movies since they came out when I was entering my pre teen to teenage years. However the older I get the more I dislike his views and consider him a bit of a poser. He doesn't have as great an understanding of comic books and film as he likes to make the world think that he does at all and it's that pretentiousness that turns me away from his podcast. I have only heard a couple of episodes like the ones where he watched the older WB Batman movies and the one with Adam West but I've concluded that his show really isn't for me at all.
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Pulchritudo in Conspectu Regis The EmpreyanMembers Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Broddie wrote: »
    You're doing yourself a huge disservice by not having read his Animal Man run yet. Seriously.

    I'll get around to it. I'm a "completeist," as far as my collecting goes. In other words, I'll buy every issue of every title I collect. Right now I'm on Superman Vol.
    Broddie wrote: »
    As for Kevin Smith. I grew up on his earlier movies since they came out when I was entering my pre teen to teenage years. However the older I get the more I dislike his views and consider him a bit of a poser. He doesn't have as great an understanding of comic books and film as he likes to make the world think that he does at all and it's that pretentiousness that turns me away from his podcast. I have only heard a couple of episodes like the ones where he watched the older WB Batman movies and the one with Adam West but I've concluded that his show really isn't for me at all.

    The interviews with Mark Hammil, Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Jeph Loeb, and Grant Morrison are dope. They talk a lot about their back stories and their creative process.
  • Lou Cypher
    Lou Cypher Make Reasonable Choices. H. E. Double Hockey SticksMembers Posts: 52,521 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Animal Man was pretty dope
  • lord nemesis
    lord nemesis You ever dance with the Devil in the pale moonlight? Members Posts: 11,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rob Liefeld is the greatest comic mind in history
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Pulchritudo in Conspectu Regis The EmpreyanMembers Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rob Liefeld is the greatest comic mind in history

    rob-eazy.jpg

    Word to Eazy Muthafuckin' E.

  • Goonberg Scandal
    Goonberg Scandal Members Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited July 2015
    Rob Liefeld is the greatest comic mind in history

    Youngblood was a cheap knockoff of The Avengers, yet Rob Liefeld still had 🤬 checking out for it. Rob created Deadpool, Cable and X-Force. That's enough to make your mark in the industry.
  • Splackavelli
    Splackavelli I'll getchu bitch!!! Somewhere drunk off my ass.Members Posts: 18,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rob Liefeld is the greatest comic mind in history

    Youngblood was a cheap knockoff of The Avengers, yet Rob Liefeld still had 🤬 checking out for it. Rob created Deadpool, Cable and X-Force. That's enough to make your mark in the industry.

    yeah but his artwork was craptastic. i don't completely blame him. it was todd mcfarlane who started the trend of drawing grossly disproportioned figures. liefield was just a bad imitator.
  • Goonberg Scandal
    Goonberg Scandal Members Posts: 29 ✭✭
    If you had to pay 400 dollars just to meet Stan Lee, then you got 🤬 .