What's up everyone. We are doing a contest with T.I. and we are giving away $1200 a day for the next 10 days. Just wanted to give you all a heads up.
https://www.allhiphop.com/ti

The "Black Community" and the Police Desperately Need To Patch Things Up?

Plutarch
Plutarch A Tribe Called FreshPhilly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 2011 in R & R (Religion and Race)
Right? (And when I say "black community", I'm namely talking about impoverished black neighborhoods, and this runs parallel to other groups like immigrants, Asians, Hispanics, etc). I need some feedback on this issue. I know that I’m not completely knowledgeable about this, but I am from philly and I’ve seen and heard this same stuff happen elsewhere even though it gets no press.

Now I know the police aren't saints. The past and present have proved this. And some cops are worse than some gang members. But all cops certainly aren't bad. I have a hate/love relationship with cops, but cops are regular people just like you and I. We all have our faults, so despite what anyone thinks, cops aren't always the good guys that society wants us to think they are. Believe me, I know this.

But to see gangs and such ilk basically run and exploit some black neighborhoods, where crime flourishes and the average citizen is too scared to talk to the police because he/she can't trust them is pretty damn disheartening. You have your law abiding, hard working black citizen stuck between a rock and a hard place: either get 🤬 by the local gangs or by the local police.

Most? white neighborhoods don’t have to deal with that, and I don’t think black neighborhoods need to either. Though I think if this relationship is going to be healed then it’s going to depend heavily on the police. They are the ones that need to be making major moves to prove themselves.

The no snitching code is respectable, but only to a very limited extent…

Comments

  • lordhonka2
    lordhonka2 Members Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    first lets not say black neighborhoods. I live in a black neighboor hood there is the occasianal break or kids doing stuff but nothing serious. the reason i bring this up is because the nieghborhood that are bad are beacuse criminal live there and we cant ask criminal to tell on each other. If i stay by a murder who has freinds that are murders then i can afford to tell as long as i stay there. The second problem with any reconciliation is that you are asking people to tell on thier nieghbors child or brother or husband or whatever. now logically it makes sense to tell cause you dont want your people to grow up around that so what do yo do . People who know better are going to do better and remove thier families from around that 🤬 . 3rd the police need constant meeting with the people in the nighboorhoods they patrol. the police need to talk to kids in schools ( i grew up a D.A.R.E. child look that up if you a younging) so that the kids know they are not the enemy.

    the hood is the hood for a reason if the people who lived thier had good sense they woulnt live thier my nieghbors 🤬 bless them nosey mfers they snitching if it goes down and i appreciated it. I feel safe knowning we all got each others back. but then this aint the hood

    i stay in durham nc a week ago a 15 year old got killed in a drive by they still have no leads
    cause nobody talking
    Im sorry that little girl died. Im sorry my students have been able to move on like its nothing. Im sorry the police have no leads but its basically what happens if you live in the hood
    if you know better do better. leave the hood
  • playmaker88
    playmaker88 Boy, I tell you that's vision Like Tony Romo when he hitting Witten Members Posts: 67,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    Sorry for shootin yall 🤬 ..


    My bad..
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    heyslick wrote: »
    I will NEVER understand that mind set. ---- this lingering problem within some/many or most poor communities? Why do they demand that it's the police who have to accommodate them? There's no accountability whatsoever for the other parties involved in this dispute & the decent law abiding citizens get caught in the middle of the mayhem created by those who won't snitch out the real culprits within these poor trouble communities.....it damn sure is a JUNGLE & both parties need to compromise to a certain degree.

    Ok, I can agree with what you said to a good extent. Both parties do need to claim responsibility. But there's more to it.

    I'm not sure if I can articulate what I'm trying to say here but I'll try. In order to heal the relationship between impoverished neighborhoods and the police, much of the burden falls on the police because:

    1. Between the two parties, it is the police who are the authoritative figures. They are the ones that need to swallow thier pride (which is a big obstacle preventing the two parties from coming together) and prejudices and handle the issue like a mature and lawful organization. As far as law and justice go, they are the parent figures and the citizens are children figures. The parent needs to step up and establish order.

    2. It is the police who have made such a mockery out of justice and law as it concerns the black population throughout history. So how can you even blame a black neighborhood, even the law abiding citizens, for not trusting the police? The police have to do whatever to redeem/rewrite themeselves. Even a simple apology could initiate some kind of "reconcilement".

    I think it is imperative that we also need to address the past. I know the police and black neighborhoods have sharp disagreement when it comes to the Black Panthers for instance. The police protested not only against Common (who praised Assata Shakur) visiting the White House, but also against the naming of a Chicago street in honor of Fred Hampton, who was also a Black Panther. I think much of this rift between the police and the black community lies in our history, and not so much the present. And we're not even aware of this.
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    lordhonka2 wrote: »
    first lets not say black neighborhoods. I live in a black neighboor hood there is the occasianal break or kids doing stuff but nothing serious. the reason i bring this up is because the nieghborhood that are bad are beacuse criminal live there and we cant ask criminal to tell on each other. If i stay by a murder who has freinds that are murders then i can afford to tell as long as i stay there. The second problem with any reconciliation is that you are asking people to tell on thier nieghbors child or brother or husband or whatever. now logically it makes sense to tell cause you dont want your people to grow up around that so what do yo do . People who know better are going to do better and remove thier families from around that 🤬 . 3rd the police need constant meeting with the people in the nighboorhoods they patrol. the police need to talk to kids in schools ( i grew up a D.A.R.E. child look that up if you a younging) so that the kids know they are not the enemy.

    the hood is the hood for a reason if the people who lived thier had good sense they woulnt live thier my nieghbors 🤬 bless them nosey mfers they snitching if it goes down and i appreciated it. I feel safe knowning we all got each others back. but then this aint the hood

    i stay in durham nc a week ago a 15 year old got killed in a drive by they still have no leads
    cause nobody talking
    Im sorry that little girl died. Im sorry my students have been able to move on like its nothing. Im sorry the police have no leads but its basically what happens if you live in the hood
    if you know better do better. leave the hood

    Yes, I had said that I was generalizing “black neighborhoods” to refer to impoverished neighborhoods. And yes, I don’t expect criminals to snitch on criminals. But I still do expect noncriminals to at least do something about these criminals. Yes, these noncriminals face the risk of suffering somehow but if they are supported by the noncriminal population (which dwarfs the criminal population anywhere in America?) as well as the police then these criminals, as well as their culture, can be stopped. Getting your neighbor’s child arrested for the dumb 🤬 he did is what he deserves and just may even help him in the long run. Anyways, some families can’t remove themselves and go elsewhere, and even if they did then they might be just trading in one bad neighborhood for another. You’re third point is key. Constant meetings, esp with kids and the police would help a lot. I did that D.A.R.E. program too. It made me respect the police but they could’ve done so much more to be honest.

    The hood is the hood for a reason but sometimes you cant escape the hood. Just ask Mobb Deep? Sometimes you’re just born into the at 🤬 and have to wait a long ass time until college to get away. Sometimes that’s where your friends and family are. Sometimes you cant afford to live anywhere better.

    Yeah, the first time I took a trip to a Northside neighborhood in Nashville (I was chilling with an old friend), some kid got shot in the ass. He lived and the police and ambulance came and everybody and their kids came out and was just staring and 🤬 . I’m pretty sure there were no leads either. But I still think that this can change, and establishing some trust with the police is a major part to that.
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    after 300 years of hating Black people, it is unwise to think that hate-filled police will ever change their attitude, toward us...especially now, during these times that Whites are afraid of their demise-of-power.

    Q: the very very very first police agency in America, was created for what purpose??
    A: To harass and oppress Black slaves, who were found away from their plantation w/o authorization.

    So if a group was created hundreds of years ago, to oppress Blacks, how reasonable is it to accept facts truths and realities...proving that their mindset won't ever change, toward Blacks??

    Lets not oversimplify the situation with generalizations now. There are plenty of good cops out there. Not all of them were/are racists either.

    Saying that the first police was created to harass and oppress Black slaves seems reckless and merely rhetorical to me. It would rather seem more logical and truthful that the very first police was created simply to establish order and enforce the law. The fact that they oppressed and harassed Black slaves is a mere consequence of enforcing an injust law at that time. Enforcing slavery wasn't the essential objective.

    But the police, America, and American law has certainly improved since. Times change and we cant be glued to slavery all the time. America's still not perfect, but we're still moving. But this certainly isn't the 1600s.

    This group may have oppressed Blacks a hundreds of years ago, but that certainly doesn't mean that that's what they will continue to do forever. They're not programmed machines. And change can and has happened. The mindset that is trained to think that the police can't change is ironically only a self fulfilling prophecy. Maybe if we change that mindset and open up our minds then maybe we can actually bring about some more profound changes. If both sides think that the other is some fixated entity that cant possibly change then all that we are doing is pigeonholing ourselves and doing everything in our power to stifle the change that everybody hopes for.
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    Hmm, why was this moved? That's a pretty questionable decision. And ruins any possibility of widespread feedback.

    Religion and Race Forum: "Room devoted to religious discussion and enlightenment. Share your experiences and your beliefs. Learn about those of others. ZERO TOLERANCE FOR ANTAGONISM"

    This topic has nothing to do with religion, religous beliefs, or spirituality. If you look at the forum, this topic is nothing like the other ones that have been posted.
  • Cabana_Da_Don
    Cabana_Da_Don Members Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    They are a gang too.Gotta look at that way.I think the black community has to look out for the black community first.Gotta get there 🤬 together then we can do watever we want.
  • OFWGKTA
    OFWGKTA Banned Users Posts: 1,202 ✭✭
    edited May 2011
    this doesnt apply to me cause im white. but lloyd banks said it best.
    ''Na i aint pullin over, learned that from rodney king''
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    They are a gang too.Gotta look at that way.I think the black community has to look out for the black community first.Gotta get there 🤬 together then we can do watever we want.

    Yes, so its like I said: either face the wrath of your local gang or face the wrath of cops (also basically a gang). but not all cops are bad. We have a much better chance with cops but they have to look at themselves with a critical eye because there's corruption within the police too. We have to better the police so that they can better serve us.

    The black community will never look out for the black community. Human beings will never look out for each other. It will inevitably come down to survival of the fittest and the worst of the worst will rule the roost. That's why some gangs tax local businesses and extort them for money. Regardless of race and culture, people will exploit people. That's why we need the police to enforce the law. We need the police to protect us from ourselves.

    that's what 2pac was saying when he said "And they say it's the white man I should fear, but it's my own kind doing all the killing here"
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    OFWGKTA wrote: »
    this doesnt apply to me cause im white. but lloyd banks said it best.
    ''Na i aint pullin over, learned that from rodney king''

    if you're white and you listen to hip hop, it just might apply to you.

    but yeah racial profiling is so foul. And we all know it happens and it seems like cops basically endorse that 🤬 . That's something major that the police and the black community need to address immediately.

    Speaking of which, I remember this one youtube video...🤬 me the hell off...
  • John Prewett
    John Prewett Members Posts: 755
    edited May 2011
    Criminals and criminal supporters [of all colors] hate police in general.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ0wZikN0Z4&feature=player_embedded
  • OFWGKTA
    OFWGKTA Banned Users Posts: 1,202 ✭✭
    edited May 2011
    Criminals and criminal supporters [of all colors] hate police in general.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ0wZikN0Z4&feature=player_embedded

    im neither, but i've seen countless videos of police being ignorant 🤬 for NO reason, which is were my hate comes from.
  • ShencotheMC
    ShencotheMC KING Members Posts: 26,051 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    Plutarch wrote: »
    The no snitching code is respectable.........

    Hilarious!
  • John Prewett
    John Prewett Members Posts: 755
    edited May 2011
    OFWGKTA wrote: »
    im neither, but i've seen countless videos of police being ignorant 🤬 for NO reason, which is were my hate comes from.

    Think it is hard to find "countless" videos and news accounts of vicious black thugs ?

    Racist bigots always have to have a double standard.

    Terrible when those people do it. Not so bad when my people do it.

    In the video I posted, the cop could have easily justified killing the perp. The cop was MERCIFUL.

    If you attack a cop with your bare hands, the cop is under NO OBLIGATION to fist fight you. The cop has every right to shoot you.
  • John Prewett
    John Prewett Members Posts: 755
    edited May 2011
    heyslick wrote: »
    I don't get it?? you posted this video to show how ignorant the police are/can be?....HUH! Just how smart is this individual? who thinks he can hijack a cop car? not to mention his stupidity from the get-go.....WOW! dude jumps out of his car and starts to fight with the law....DUMB DUMB!

    I presume you realize that OFWGKTA posted one video. I posted a different video.
  • musicology1985
    musicology1985 Members Posts: 4,632 ✭✭
    edited May 2011
    It’s Over 2012: after 300 years of hating Black people, it is unwise to think that hate-filled police will ever change their attitude, toward us...especially now, during these times that Whites are afraid of their demise-of-power.

    Q: the very very very first police agency in America, was created for what purpose??
    A: To harass and oppress Black slaves, who were found away from their plantation w/o authorization.


    So if a group was created hundreds of years ago, to oppress Blacks, how reasonable is it to accept facts truths and realities...proving that their mindset won't ever change, toward Blacks??

    C/S

    Cabana da Don: They are a gang too.Gotta look at that way.I think the black community has to look out for the black community first.Gotta get there 🤬 together then we can do watever we want.

    Truth.

    Plutarch: The black community will never look out for the black community.

    False. Blacks without outside influence have always done well. We have a proven track record of more peace than any other ethnic group on the planet in Africa before the slave trades and scrambles. Even in this country, without intrusion we were very successful but purges within our own ethnic group is a natural occurrence just like any other, and with the right regime, we will & are looking out for each other to the best of our abilities at this time. However, that system is not fit for all blacks because we are not all the same. I may or may not see you at the mountaintop. It is what it is.
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    heyslick wrote: »
    I don't get it?? you posted this video to show how ignorant the police are/can be?....HUH! Just how smart is this individual? who thinks he can hijack a cop car? not to mention his stupidity from the get-go.....WOW! dude jumps out of his car and starts to fight with the law....DUMB DUMB!

    Agreed. That video certainly made me cringe.
    shenco wrote: »
    Hilarious!

    Lol, ok let me explain myself. Well, let me first restate the "entire" quotation since it seems that you've taken the time to edit it and take it out of context to obscure what I was saying:
    Plutarch wrote: »
    The no snitching code is respectable, but only to a very limited extent

    I could've replaced "respectable" with "reasonable" but that's no difference to me, so that's neither here or there. But what I was trying to say is that sometimes, it's best/wise to not snitch. For instance, you might not snitch in order to protect loved ones. Or you might not snitch because what you would be snitching about isn't too much of a big deal or isn't worth putting your life in danger. And of course, some criminals won't snitch on other criminals because they risk snitching on themselves. But it all centers on the main point of this thread: the lack of trust and confidence some black folk have in the police. That's what needs to be resolved in order to do away with the "no snitching" culture that unfortunately in these times is legtimately respectable/reasonable.
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    It’s Over 2012: after 300 years of hating Black people, it is unwise to think that hate-filled police will ever change their attitude, toward us...especially now, during these times that Whites are afraid of their demise-of-power.

    Q: the very very very first police agency in America, was created for what purpose??
    A: To harass and oppress Black slaves, who were found away from their plantation w/o authorization.


    So if a group was created hundreds of years ago, to oppress Blacks, how reasonable is it to accept facts truths and realities...proving that their mindset won't ever change, toward Blacks??

    C/S

    I think that the both of you are misguided. So what do you have to say to my response to its over: 2012?:
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Lets not oversimplify the situation with generalizations now. There are plenty of good cops out there. Not all of them were/are racists either.

    Saying that the first police was created to harass and oppress Black slaves seems reckless and merely rhetorical to me. It would rather seem more logical and truthful that the very first police was created simply to establish order and enforce the law. The fact that they oppressed and harassed Black slaves is a mere consequence of enforcing an injust law at that time. Enforcing slavery wasn't the essential objective.

    But the police, America, and American law has certainly improved since. Times change and we cant be glued to slavery all the time. America's still not perfect, but we're still moving. But this certainly isn't the 1600s.

    This group may have oppressed Blacks a hundreds of years ago, but that certainly doesn't mean that that's what they will continue to do forever. They're not programmed machines. And change can and has happened. The mindset that is trained to think that the police can't change is ironically only a self fulfilling prophecy. Maybe if we change that mindset and open up our minds then maybe we can actually bring about some more profound changes. If both sides think that the other is some fixated entity that cant possibly change then all that we are doing is pigeonholing ourselves and doing everything in our power to stifle the change that everybody hopes for.
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011

    Cabana da Don: They are a gang too.Gotta look at that way.I think the black community has to look out for the black community first.Gotta get there 🤬 together then we can do watever we want.

    Truth.

    Plutarch: The black community will never look out for the black community.

    False. Blacks without outside influence have always done well. We have a proven track record of more peace than any other ethnic group on the planet in Africa before the slave trades and scrambles. Even in this country, without intrusion we were very successful but purges within our own ethnic group is a natural occurrence just like any other, and with the right regime, we will & are looking out for each other to the best of our abilities at this time. However, that system is not fit for all blacks because we are not all the same. I may or may not see you at the mountaintop. It is what it is.

    I mostly disagree, but I think you partially misunderstood me.

    I can agree with your second and third sentence. But I disagree somewhat with your use of "blacks" and "we". It is Africans, not "Blacks", that have a proven track record of more peace. And if you weren't an African before the slave trades and scrambles, then that does not include you, so I disagree with your use of "we".

    There was so much more than "purges" (I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to but I have an idea) within the African-American community that brought about our failures in America. I think it's misleading to simplify the situation and lay the blame on "outsiders".

    Anyways, what you were largely talking about was the past. But I was talking about the present and future, which has witnessed a drastic change since the past times of your African utopia. Especially here in America.

    You say that "we will and are looking out for each other to the best of our abilities at this time." I can agree somewhat. We have black organizations like the NAACP and black "leaders" like Jesse Jackson. But I'd also say that we haven't been very successful in a lot of areas. When I said that the black community will never look out for the black community, I meant that that black solidarity and black nationalism isn't as strong as we think it is. Politics, power, jealousy, money, greed, creative differences, intra-racial, gender and cultural issues, and other obstacles will always prevent human beings, let alone blacks, from achieving a substantial sense of solidarity.
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    Powerful post.

    Really? To be honest, I thought it was rather extraneous and full of empty rhetoric. Meh...
  • ShencotheMC
    ShencotheMC KING Members Posts: 26,051 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    Not even to a limited extent homie. That 🤬 is free bass 🤬 . And living in Philly like I, you should def know how stupid that 🤬 is
  • Chike
    Chike Members Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    Criminals and criminal supporters [of all colors] hate police in general.




    gtfoh The police work for and protect the interests of the biggest 🤬 criminals on the planet, what they 🤬 you talking about?
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
    shenco wrote: »
    Not even to a limited extent homie. That 🤬 is free bass 🤬 . And living in Philly like I, you should def know how stupid that 🤬 is

    I understand what you're saying fam. I don't like that 🤬 either, and its wrong. I don't live in philly anymore but I know how bad it is out there, and I've heard it's gotten worse.

    But if someone told you that if you snitched on them that they would go after your family, then chances are that you will be forced to abide by that rule, especially if you don't trust the police or don't have any clout in the streets. It's wrong, but that's how bad it is in some neighborhoods that something so wrong is adhered to regardless.

    This may not apply to you but I don't see how some people can be against "no snitching" and have a "🤬 the police" mentality at the same time. If you're against those who commit their lives to crime and those who commit their lives to the law, then who do you exactly place faith in when it comes to establishing order and justice? You need the latter for that, even though some of them are criminals themselves. Hence, the need to reform the police and mend the broken relationship between them and us.
Sign In or Register to comment.