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Do Christians believe that Jesus died a 🤬 ?

Pond ScumPond Scum Members Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭
edited July 2011 in R & R (Religion and Race)
I tend to think he didn't since he died in his 30's and there is the whole Gospel of Mary issue as well his the missing years.

I wonder this since so much of the talk about marriage in the news lately seems to come from various Christian groups when marriage isn't really a Christian concept at all; not only do most religions and cultures have at least some form of marriage but also marriage predates Christianity by a very long time.

Officially Jesus wasn't married (but by the way the Council of Nicaea butchered the bible we can't be 100% certain) so does that mean that this modern Christian link to marriage and sex is just another example of religious institutions creating rules based on their own whims and using religion to enforce it?

As far as I know there isn't anything in the bible that mentions premarital sex as a sin but I could be wrong since I haven't read the whole New Testament yet and it's been a while since I read the old one.

I guess I have two questions...

1) Do you believe Jesus died a 🤬 ?
2) Where did the idea of premarital sex being a sin originate?
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Comments

  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    1. 🤬 died for the sins of the world. 🤬 doesn't fornicate. 🤬 is married to the bride of Christ! Will you join the body?
    2. Genesis 1 and 2 give a clear description of creation. 🤬 presented Eve to Adam. It was the example of how all of us are to marry one woman. Not sodomite behavior! 🤬 will present a woman to all men but sadly as a man we screw up. Thank 🤬 for forgiveness of sins! Are yours covered by the blood of the lamb?
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    Maybe this question is asked because it is really important to you...but what would it mean that if some "Christians" believe that he didn't die a 🤬 ? Would you consider taking up this religion then, or still call it nonsense. I believe he did die a 🤬 , but I think misses the point. I've heard of people in this lifetime who've gone their whole lives in abstinence so it can be done. If he did die a 🤬 , why did he do so? What was so important that he would "miss out" on the pleasures of mankind?
  • Pond ScumPond Scum Members Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    Maybe this question is asked because it is really important to you...but what would it mean that if some "Christians" believe that he didn't die a 🤬 ? Would you consider taking up this religion then, or still call it nonsense. I believe he did die a 🤬 , but I think misses the point. I've heard of people in this lifetime who've gone their whole lives in abstinence so it can be done. If he did die a 🤬 , why did he do so? What was so important that he would "miss out" on the pleasures of mankind?

    I never called any of it nonsense. I'm just asking questions since I don't know the answers and it never really seems to be addressed. Some people are abstinent but I think if Jesus was it would have been mentioned at some point in the bible since that would be somewhat significant.

    I think religious people have this perception of Jesus that makes him more of a magical superhero than a man which, if true, undermines the whole point of his story.

    I happen to think it's unlikely that Jesus practiced abstinence but regardless of that being true or false I'm really more concerned with where the idea of premarital sex being sinful originates. If it didn't come from Jesus and it didn't come from the bible I think Christians should be concerned about that as well.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    binstar wrote: »
    I never called any of it nonsense. I'm just asking questions since I don't know the answers and it never really seems to be addressed. Some people are abstinent but I think if Jesus was it would have been mentioned at some point in the bible since that would be somewhat significant.

    I think religious people have this perception of Jesus that makes him more of a magical superhero than a man which, if true, undermines the whole point of his story.

    I happen to think it's unlikely that Jesus practiced abstinence but regardless of that being true or false I'm really more concerned with where the idea of premarital sex being sinful originates. If it didn't come from Jesus and it didn't come from the bible I think Christians should be concerned about that as well.

    Jesus's abstinence is insignificant...but it is made significant because of how we view sex and marriage. I could be wrong, but if people think that sex is significant, then people are going to question Jesus's sexuality. Some men (or women) would want to doubt his abstinence because they weren't able to hold out. I would also say to believe the Jesus held out is probably one of the reasons why some people won't adopt Christianity.
  • Pond ScumPond Scum Members Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    Jesus's abstinence is insignificant...but it is made significant because of how we view sex and marriage. I could be wrong, but if people think that sex is significant, then people are going to question Jesus's sexuality. Some men (or women) would want to doubt his abstinence because they weren't able to hold out. I would also say to believe the Jesus held out is probably one of the reasons why some people won't adopt Christianity.

    I'm not sure you're understanding my question about this. I don't think there is anything in the bible at all that would suggest the Jesus was abstinent. If there is that's what I'm looking for. I think it might be a case of how people and the church throughout the years viewed sex allowing them to shape their own ideas about Jesus. If you eliminate that and go strictly off biblical text is there anything that supports the idea of a 🤬 Jesus?

    Even anthropologically there weren't many cases of abstinent rabbis back then. It strikes me as something that got added later based on someone's non-divine agenda or beliefs.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    binstar wrote: »
    I'm not sure you're understanding my question about this. I don't think there is anything in the bible at all that would suggest the Jesus was abstinent. If there is that's what I'm looking for. I think it might be a case of how people and the church throughout the years viewed sex allowing them to shape their own ideas about Jesus. If you eliminate that and go strictly off biblical text is there anything that supports the idea of a 🤬 Jesus?

    Even anthropologically there weren't many cases of abstinent rabbis back then. It strikes me as something that got added later based on someone's non-divine agenda or beliefs.

    But then, there was nothing suggesting that he laid with a woman either. However, if you were to at least understand (I'm not saying believe) Jesus's purpose in the Bible, then it is implied that sex was not in his agenda...nor was becoming a political figure, a faith healer, a magician, a teacher...anything that we can think of. Like I said, we made sex a significant part of our lives and we made Jesus out to be a standard to promote good moral behavior. Good morals are fine and all...but it doesn't save you.
  • IshiIshi "You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger" Members Posts: 4,649 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    1. 🤬 died for the sins of the world. 🤬 doesn't fornicate. 🤬 is married to the bride of Christ! Will you join the body?
    2. Genesis 1 and 2 give a clear description of creation. 🤬 presented Eve to Adam. It was the example of how all of us are to marry one woman. Not sodomite behavior! 🤬 will present a woman to all men but sadly as a man we screw up. Thank 🤬 for forgiveness of sins! Are yours covered by the blood of the lamb?



    Those answers within a question you do make me think your more corny than Shenco.
  • Pond ScumPond Scum Members Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    Ishi wrote: »
    Those answers within a question you do make me think your more corny than Shenco.

    Yeah that person is not equipped to have any type of conversation at all. It's kinda sad.
    alissowack wrote: »
    But then, there was nothing suggesting that he laid with a woman either. However, if you were to at least understand (I'm not saying believe) Jesus's purpose in the Bible, then it is implied that sex was not in his agenda...nor was becoming a political figure, a faith healer, a magician, a teacher...anything that we can think of. Like I said, we made sex a significant part of our lives and we made Jesus out to be a standard to promote good moral behavior. Good morals are fine and all...but it doesn't save you.

    There's also nothing to suggest that Jesus ever took a dump but I'm guessing he did that as well. At what point did abstinence become equal to purity and at what point did sex become amoral behavior? If it's not in the scriptures then is that thinking valid in the context of true Christianity?
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    binstar wrote: »

    There's also nothing to suggest that Jesus ever took a dump but I'm guessing he did that as well. At what point did abstinence become equal to purity and at what point did sex become amoral behavior? If it's not in the scriptures then is that thinking valid in the context of true Christianity?

    Abstinence became equal to purity as soon as it was perceived to be. Who knows, but that is what we do; we take something and make it more or less than what it is. Is sex wrong...no. Is adultery wrong...according to the Bible it is wrong.
  • DRODRO Members Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    So that would mean that 🤬 had sex with people also then.. Cause 🤬 was in/apart of jesus...


    So the savior was walking around 🤬 after women and yet in still saved us?... Make no sense
  • Pond ScumPond Scum Members Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    Abstinence became equal to purity as soon as it was perceived to be. Who knows, but that is what we do; we take something and make it more or less than what it is. Is sex wrong...no. Is adultery wrong...according to the Bible it is wrong.

    See that's what I mean. is premarital sex wrong... according to the bible it isn't. Is it unfair that I question Christian religious doctrine that isn't actually contained in the bible? I would think that many Christians would want to ask these questions as well.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    So that would mean that 🤬 had sex with people also then.. Cause 🤬 was in/apart of jesus...


    So the savior was walking around 🤬 after women and yet in still saved us?... Make no sense

    That's exactly what I was talking about in my post...that people read more or less into what something says. Sex was created for a reason; that it serves a purpose that should be respected. It is when sex becomes "adulterous" that it becomes bad. According to the Bible, even looking at a woman lustfully is adultery so sex doesn't have to happen. Sex is not the problem. Sin is.
  • Pond ScumPond Scum Members Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    So that would mean that 🤬 had sex with people also then.. Cause 🤬 was in/apart of jesus...

    So the savior was walking around 🤬 after women and yet in still saved us?... Make no sense

    Why wouldn't Jesus "🤬 " after women? He could feel pain, love, anger, sadness and every other human emotion. He ate and slept like a human, why wouldn't he have sex like one as well? I'm guessing he was born with a 🤬 since he was clearly wearing a loincloth when he got crucified.

    There is nothing to suggest that at the time of Jesus that sex between a single man and a single woman was sinful so I'm wondering where you guys get that idea besides conditioning.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    binstar wrote: »
    See that's what I mean. is premarital sex wrong... according to the bible it isn't. Is it unfair that I question Christian religious doctrine that isn't actually contained in the bible? I would think that many Christians would want to ask these questions as well.

    However, you (and everybody else) is making the Bible to be simply about moral constructs. There are do's and don't's, but it misses the point of why people should adopt Christianity. If it is about morals, then it's no different than any other religion.
  • DRODRO Members Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    that's exactly what i was talking about in my post...that people read more or less into what something says. Sex was created for a reason; that it serves a purpose that should be respected. It is when sex becomes "adulterous" that it becomes bad. According to the bible, even looking at a woman lustfully is adultery so sex doesn't have to happen. Sex is not the problem. Sin is.

    sex was created for 1. To reproduce 2. To have union with your wife/husband... And yes, when you are married and you look at a woman/man lustfully, it is sin cause you are desiring them in your mind.. U r desiring to sin... When you marry, u make a commentment to that person and 🤬 ....

    binstar wrote: »
    why wouldn't jesus "🤬 " after women? He could feel pain, love, anger, sadness and every other human emotion. He ate and slept like a human, why wouldn't he have sex like one as well? I'm guessing he was born with a 🤬 since he was clearly wearing a loincloth when he got crucified.

    There is nothing to suggest that at the time of jesus that sex between a single man and a single woman was sinful so i'm wondering where you guys get that idea besides conditioning.


    jesus was a man and he was also gods son.... So once again.. If 🤬 is in him, jesus (🤬 in the flesh), that would mean that 🤬 the father also 🤬 after his creations.. His children...

    You saying jesus lusted is saying that jesus is with flaw... Why you think the ones before him who was pose to be the savior failed?.. Because they had sin in them...

    Im sure women prob tried to have sex with him.. The devil tempted jesus for 40 days and nights, so im sure so where the devil tried to through some sex his way (pause)
  • DRODRO Members Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    however, you (and everybody else) is making the bible to be simply about moral constructs. There are do's and don't's, but it misses the point of why people should adopt christianity. If it is about morals, then it's no different than any other religion.

    the bibles purpose is to present to you the word from 🤬 ...

    The bible is also used to prepare us for the end, the instructions that we need to follow if we want to live with 🤬 forever, or burn in hell....

    Being a christian is not a religion, it is a true way of life. 🤬 will not make you serve him... This books purpose is about wayyyy more than morals.
  • bignorm73bignorm73 Banned Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    If you are a christian, then you believe he died a 🤬 , because the bible identifies premarital sex as sin, and points out that jesus was without sin.
  • DRODRO Members Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    bignorm73 wrote: »
    if you are a christian, then you believe he died a 🤬 , because the bible identifies premarital sex as sin, and points out that jesus was without sin.

    exactly... But yet and still.. Folks wanna discredit jesus and his father... Nothing new!
  • Pond ScumPond Scum Members Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    You saying jesus lusted is saying that jesus is with flaw... Why you think the ones before him who was pose to be the savior failed?.. Because they had sin in them...

    No - what I'm saying is 🤬 isn't a flaw. It's how humans are designed. I don't know about you but I'm naturally attracted to women. I don't see that as a flaw and I don't think there's anywhere in the bible that suggests that either. If you're talking about temptation you're talking about temptation towards sin. Sins are pretty clearly defined throughout the bible and I don't think a single man being attracted to a single woman is one of them.
    bignorm73 wrote: »
    If you are a christian, then you believe he died a 🤬 , because the bible identifies premarital sex as sin, and points out that jesus was without sin.

    But the bible does not identify premarital sex as a sin. If I'm wrong I'd really like someone to point it out. My whole point is based on the fact that the bible has nothing negative to say about premarital sex but if I'm wrong I'd really like to know.
    exactly... But yet and still.. Folks wanna discredit jesus and his father... Nothing new!

    How does saying a guy isn't a 30 year old 🤬 discredit him? you have some strange negative views about sex. do you cry after?
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    sex was created for 1. To reproduce 2. To have union with your wife/husband... And yes, when you are married and you look at a woman/man lustfully, it is sin cause you are desiring them in your mind.. U r desiring to sin... When you marry, u make a commentment to that person and 🤬 ...

    ...and marriage saves someone from sin. There are people who marry thinking that they no longer have to worry about sin. Sin exists regardless.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    the bibles purpose is to present to you the word from 🤬 ...

    The bible is also used to prepare us for the end, the instructions that we need to follow if we want to live with 🤬 forever, or burn in hell....

    Being a christian is not a religion, it is a true way of life. 🤬 will not make you serve him... This books purpose is about wayyyy more than morals.

    I agree there is more to the Bible than just morals. I just don't believe it is our call to come to our presuppositions about what the Bible says.
  • DRODRO Members Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    binstar wrote: »
    no - what i'm saying is 🤬 isn't a flaw. It's how humans are designed. I don't know about you but i'm naturally attracted to women. I don't see that as a flaw and i don't think there's anywhere in the bible that suggests that either. If you're talking about temptation you're talking about temptation towards sin. Sins are pretty clearly defined throughout the bible and i don't think a single man being attracted to a single woman is one of them.

    But the bible does not identify premarital sex as a sin. If i'm wrong i'd really like someone to point it out. My whole point is based on the fact that the bible has nothing negative to say about premarital sex but if i'm wrong i'd really like to know.



    How does saying a guy isn't a 30 year old 🤬 discredit him? You have some strange negative views about sex. Do you cry after?

    the body that jesus was in was simply a shell...that was the human of him... The inside/spirit was all 🤬 ....

    U r suppoed 2 be attracted 2 women..but jesus wants just simply a man like me and u


    to say jesus had sex is to say he sinned.. What part of that dont you get?.... Once again...if jesus had sex would mean that 🤬 had sex.... So they both would be wrong....
  • DRODRO Members Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    ...and marriage saves someone from sin. There are people who marry thinking that they no longer have to worry about sin. Sin exists regardless.

    i never said that sin didnt exists when u get married, but having a wife can block most of your sexual desires.....

    Thats why 🤬 said u should wait til ur married 2 have sex... Just imagine if you used 2 date pinky the porn star...... The years later u married a 🤬 chick...

    I bet u would be divorsed in a year flat...and i think u know why
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    i never said that sin didnt exists when u get married, but having a wife can block most of your sexual desires.....

    Thats why 🤬 said u should wait til ur married 2 have sex... Just imagine if you used 2 date pinky the porn star...... The years later u married a 🤬 chick...

    I bet u would be divorsed in a year flat...and i think u know why

    There are people who got married just so they could have sex...whether they confess to it or not. I know at least one who has done it and it ended in divorce. It is not to say that this person is to blame, but it is to say it didn't block sexual desires away from the guilty party. There is more to marriage than just sex.
  • DRODRO Members Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    there are people who got married just so they could have sex...whether they confess to it or not. I know at least one who has done it and it ended in divorce. It is not to say that this person is to blame, but it is to say it didn't block sexual desires away from the guilty party. There is more to marriage than just sex.

    well i have to applaud the brother for wanting to atleast try 2 do right.....

    I couldnt marry a chick soley for sex, cause more than likely, thats all she would know how to do....
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