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Thus saith the Lord, I will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her!

DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 2011 in R & R (Religion and Race)


"1Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind; 2And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about." Jeremiah 51:1-2




Will you hear the call to flee so that you will not be destroyed by the destroying wind, which will empty the land of America of all INHABITANTS in 1 hour?






"4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and 🤬 hath remembered her iniquities. 6Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord 🤬 who judgeth her." Revelation 18:4-8
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Comments

  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    It that time comes, then it will come. I just don't believe people should base their belief in 🤬 by what they will end up avoiding.
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    It that time comes, then it will come. I just don't believe people should base their belief in 🤬 by what they will end up avoiding.

    Im just a watchman my friend. If nobody sounds the alarm, how will the people be warned? Ezekiel 33 goes into great detail about this. Also Jeremiah 50-51 have 7 verses that tell the people of 🤬 to flee out of the midst of Babylon. When the appointed time comes, the seeds that were planted (like the ones now) will bear fruit; and thus those who are watching (as Jesus Christ commanded) will not hesitate to flee when that time comes.

    And besides all belief in 🤬 is based on faith. Will you have enough faith to forsake all you know and follow Him? This is what life with 🤬 is all about. Obediance is better than sacrifice. 🤬 bless you.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    I believe that is not up to you or me what we do.

    For those 🤬 foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (Romans 8:29-30)
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    I believe that is not up to you or me what we do.

    For those 🤬 foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (Romans 8:29-30)

    I totally and whole-heartedly disagree with what you said. If u want to sit on the side-lines and be a spectator, be my guest. But I will not be as you. He who wins souls is wise and they that turn many to righteousness will shine as the stars forever and ever.

    The scripture is right, but how would anybody be saved if 🤬 didn't first draw them to that predestinated calling? Here is how:

    "14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" Romans 10:14-15

    I will not sit idly by while the world goes to hell in a hand-basket. The great commission is still in effect and that also entails leading His people, the called, out of Babylon.

    Now whatever your spiritual gift(s) is, I pray that 🤬 will maximize it to the full. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    You would have to explain this one to me...why Moses, despite hearing what 🤬 said, was the one who didn't enter the Promise Land? Whether I stand and do something or sit and do nothing, I'm not in control of the outcome.
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    You would have to explain this one to me...why Moses, despite hearing what 🤬 said, was the one who didn't enter the Promise Land? Whether I stand and do something or sit and do nothing, I'm not in control of the outcome.

    No problem my friend. Moses didn't enter into the promised land because of disobedience. He failed to adhere to the strict commandment of 🤬 , which was to speak to the rock so that it would bring forth water for the children of Israel (Numbers 20:1-12). Instead, Moses struck the rock twice. By doing this, Moses failed to give 🤬 His proper glory and thus reaped glory upon himself. "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8

    So you see not following what 🤬 commands you to do is sin. Why? Because, "Anything that is not done in faith is sin." (Romans 14:23) Moses acted out of spite, instead of out of faith. Thus, 🤬 prevented him from entering into the promised land. "And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them." Numbers 20:12

    So it is of extreme importance that we follow 🤬 and obey Him. I don't know what 🤬 is telling you to do in your life, but in my life He has told me to preach against babylon and to lead His people out. If I disobey Him, not only will I be cursed in this land but I will also cause many others to be cursed in this land. I will be walking according to my own flesh and desires, instead of walking in the power of the Spirit. This is what faith is all about. Believing 🤬 to do what He said and thus acting upon on it. Faith is acting upon truth.

    While Moses was a man full of faith, he stumbled in this one area and 🤬 judged him because of it. "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams." 1 Samuel 15:22

    Obedience is the key to it all my brother. If you don't obey 🤬 , you will obey the devil. You can't be a servant of 2 masters. 🤬 bless you.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    No problem my friend. Moses didn't enter into the promised land because of disobedience. He failed to adhere to the strict commandment of 🤬 , which was to speak to the rock so that it would bring forth water for the children of Israel (Numbers 20:1-12). Instead, Moses struck the rock twice. By doing this, Moses failed to give 🤬 His proper glory and thus reaped glory upon himself. "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8

    So you see not following what 🤬 commands you to do is sin. Why? Because, "Anything that is not done in faith is sin." (Romans 14:23) Moses acted out of spite, instead of out of faith. Thus, 🤬 prevented him from entering into the promised land. "And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them." Numbers 20:12

    So it is of extreme importance that we follow 🤬 and obey Him. I don't know what 🤬 is telling you to do in your life, but in my life He has told me to preach against babylon and to lead His people out. If I disobey Him, not only will I be cursed in this land but I will also cause many others to be cursed in this land. I will be walking according to my own flesh and desires, instead of walking in the power of the Spirit. This is what faith is all about. Believing 🤬 to do what He said and thus acting upon on it. Faith is acting upon truth.

    While Moses was a man full of faith, he stumbled in this one area and 🤬 judged him because of it. "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams." 1 Samuel 15:22

    Obedience is the key to it all my brother. If you don't obey 🤬 , you will obey the devil. You can't be a servant of 2 masters. 🤬 bless you.

    I see you missed the point. I don't know that if you've noticed, but a few of the people that 🤬 has called disobeyed Him. Any yet, these were the very people He chose. David was one that was after 🤬 's Heart and yet he done some very bad things. How come his disobedience did not "change 🤬 's Will" for him? Obedience is not the key. It is the belief in the one who obeyed when you and I couldn't.
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    I see you missed the point. I don't know that if you've noticed, but a few of the people that 🤬 has called disobeyed Him. Any yet, these were the very people He chose. David was one that was after 🤬 's Heart and yet he done some very bad things. How come his disobedience did not "change 🤬 's Will" for him? Obedience is not the key. It is the belief in the one who obeyed when you and I couldn't.

    Disobedience is the key to everything my friend. The reason why sin is even in the world is because of disobedience. So you saying that 🤬 doesn't require obedience is insane. If 🤬 didn't require obedience, why even obey to begin with? Why not just eat, and drink, for tomorrow we die! Why not just live in self-indulgent pleasure like the rest of the world, if obedience wasn't necessary?

    I believe your separating obedience from faith, when in all actuality obedience is faith. If you love 🤬 , you will obey Him. "Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:18

    Faith without works is dead. Obedience to 🤬 is what produces the works of 🤬 . Why do you think this world is in the shape that it is in? Because we ALL disobey 🤬 !

    If people would obey 🤬 , there would be no SIN!

    Also, 🤬 is sovereign so of course no matter what we do His plans will succeed. His kingdom rules over all. But don't use that excuse for a reason not do anything. Yeah Moses sinned and he was punished, he didn't get to go into the promised land. But prior to that 🤬 used Moses to free His people from slavery, receive the law, and be the law-giver before the children of Israel. Moses is one of the greatest men to ever live on planet earth. But he was still a sinner, just like you, me, and all other mortals.

    David sinned on numerous occasions, but that didn't stop 🤬 from accomplishing His puropose through Him. David repented of his grevious sin and thus wrote Psalm 51 so that all those who should come after him would have encouragement by knowing that 🤬 will forgive sin if we confess them.

    This is all part of obedience my friend. If David and Moses would have continued in rebellion, they would have died in their sins and 🤬 would have raised somebody else up to accomplish His purpose. YOU MUST OBEY 🤬 IF YOUR GOING TO BE USED BY 🤬 !

    Faith without works is dead. Obedience without works is dead. They go hand in hand. 🤬 has called me for a purpose and I have to listen to Him my friend. And through obedience, which is faith in Jesus Christ, I will accomplish the will of the Lord.

    How can I lead the people out of Babylon if I don't obey 🤬 ? I don't get it.
  • waterproofwaterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Is my eye's are playing tricks on me??? did DoU just said Faith with out works is dead (Meaning you need to show and prove), After the Pauline Christian Crusader told me and Quoted Shaul that You only need faith not work.

    And I quoted THE MESSIAH that said you need Faith and Works, and DoU said that's he's under a new law ect......... WHAT HAPPEN DoU?
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Galatians 5:6

    This is the walk of any believer my friend. Faith expressed through love is the fulfillment of the law according to the Savior.

    "37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy 🤬 with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:37-40

    Faith produces work. Work doesn't produce faith. If you do the 2 things above you will be saved. Amen.
  • waterproofwaterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Galatians 5:6

    This is the walk of any believer my friend. Faith expressed through love is the fulfillment of the law according to the Savior.

    "37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy 🤬 with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:37-40

    Faith produces work. Work doesn't produce faith. If you do the 2 things above you will be saved. Amen.

    I know that DoU, but Shaul says different, He said by Faith only and you said that Yah told him these things. Like eating Pork, having the Sabbath on Sunday instead of friday sundown to Sat sundown, Women not talking in church, Slaves to love and serv their Christans Masters, Having long hair is a sin, THINGS LIKE THAT my brother DO U (NO PUN INTENDED) really believe it was from the Most High that all these things Shaul said or was it his opinions?.

    So which is it, YOU CAN'T SERVE TWO MASTERS, ONLY ONE
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    waterproof wrote: »
    I know that DoU, but Shaul says different, He said by Faith only and you said that Yah told him these things. Like eating Pork, having the Sabbath on Sunday instead of friday sundown to Sat sundown, Women not talking in church, Slaves to love and serv their Christans Masters, Having long hair is a sin, THINGS LIKE THAT my brother DO U (NO PUN INTENDED) really believe it was from the Most High that all these things Shaul said or was it his opinions?.

    So which is it, YOU CAN'T SERVE TWO MASTERS, ONLY ONE

    Your doctrine is completely different from mine my friend. You hold to a legalistic doctrine, which is a doctrine of works.

    My doctrine is one of faith which produces works. Works that are done in love and not spite, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:6 was penned by Paul, through the power of the Holy Spirit and it clearly expressed the doctrine I hold. A doctrine which you just agreed with. Amen.
  • waterproofwaterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    Your doctrine is completely different from mine my friend. You hold to a legalistic doctrine, which is a doctrine of works.

    My doctrine is one of faith which produces works. Works that are done in love and not spite, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:6 was penned by Paul, through the power of the Holy Spirit and it clearly expressed the doctrine I hold. A doctrine which you just agreed with. Amen.

    Don't put words in my mouth DoU, that's bearing false witness, I know what my Messiah Said. I foillow the doctrine of Yahuwah through his son, Not of Shaul. Now take heed to this the HOLY SPIRIT DID NOT TOLD SHAUL THAT THE SABBATH IS ON SUNDAY, IT DID NOT TELL SHAUL TO TELL SLAVES TO LOVE THEIR MASTERS AND SERVE THEM, IT DIDNT TELL SHAUL TO BREAK THE DIETARY LAWS, IT DIDNT TELL SHAUL TO TELL WOMEN TO SHUT UP AND DONT TALK IN CHURCH.

    Because that's against the Teaching of Yahuwah, but it was his opinion and everyman and women have a right to their opinion
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    Disobedience is the key to everything my friend. The reason why sin is even in the world is because of disobedience. So you saying that 🤬 doesn't require obedience is insane. If 🤬 didn't require obedience, why even obey to begin with? Why not just eat, and drink, for tomorrow we die! Why not just live in self-indulgent pleasure like the rest of the world, if obedience wasn't necessary?

    I believe your separating obedience from faith, when in all actuality obedience is faith. If you love 🤬 , you will obey Him. "Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:18

    Faith without works is dead. Obedience to 🤬 is what produces the works of 🤬 . Why do you think this world is in the shape that it is in? Because we ALL disobey 🤬 !

    If people would obey 🤬 , there would be no SIN!

    Also, 🤬 is sovereign so of course no matter what we do His plans will succeed. His kingdom rules over all. But don't use that excuse for a reason not do anything. Yeah Moses sinned and he was punished, he didn't get to go into the promised land. But prior to that 🤬 used Moses to free His people from slavery, receive the law, and be the law-giver before the children of Israel. Moses is one of the greatest men to ever live on planet earth. But he was still a sinner, just like you, me, and all other mortals.

    David sinned on numerous occasions, but that didn't stop 🤬 from accomplishing His puropose through Him. David repented of his grevious sin and thus wrote Psalm 51 so that all those who should come after him would have encouragement by knowing that 🤬 will forgive sin if we confess them.

    This is all part of obedience my friend. If David and Moses would have continued in rebellion, they would have died in their sins and 🤬 would have raised somebody else up to accomplish His purpose. YOU MUST OBEY 🤬 IF YOUR GOING TO BE USED BY 🤬 !

    Faith without works is dead. Obedience without works is dead. They go hand in hand. 🤬 has called me for a purpose and I have to listen to Him my friend. And through obedience, which is faith in Jesus Christ, I will accomplish the will of the Lord.

    How can I lead the people out of Babylon if I don't obey 🤬 ? I don't get it.

    So, you believe your obedience will save you from sin. Even the Pharisees obeyed. If that is the case, then why Jesus? What did he die for?
  • waterproofwaterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    So, you believe your obedience will save you from sin. Even the Pharisees obeyed. If that is the case, then why Jesus? What did he die for?

    The pharisees was put in the seat of Moses by The Roman Empire and some where Gentiles remember when the most high sent isarel out of his sight and brought others in the land of canaan and the most high sent lions to devor the new inhabitants and they sent for the levites who where in captive so they can learn the laws of the most high. They learned the laws and customs but were not true isrealites, some of them where the Pharisee's and Sadducee's. That's why they killed YAHSHUA not the Hebrews but the leaders, elders who was put in the seat of Moses and yes Edom was calling the shots and Edom and Amalek were in those seats too, the same thing that you see in the churches today.

    That's why YAH sent his son to redeem The lost sheep of Isareal and to bring back what's was ours and he going to do it again when he returns. That's why he Said "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE" in Revelations because a false doctrine got his people
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    So, you believe your obedience will save you from sin. Even the Pharisees obeyed. If that is the case, then why Jesus? What did he die for?


    The Pharisees didn't obey 🤬 , else they would have known the time of their visitation. 🤬 said that they obeyed their father the devil and the 🤬 of their father they did, which was to crucify the Lord of glory. (Luke 19:44 speaks about not recognizing the time of visitation and John 8 speaks about the pharisees being the children of the devil because of disobedience aka no faith)

    And yes obedience saved me from sin. I am one with Christ and He is the one who obeyed fully. So Because I repented and believed the gospel I am born again. Those who belong to 🤬 are obediant, those who don't are disobedient. If I didn't obey Jesus Christ, by believing that He died for me and was raised for my justification, i would still be a lost sinner.

    So I really don't understand what your getting at. It's like your trying to play semantics with me or something? I really don't get it to be honest.

    Obedience is faith. Faith is obedience. You can't have 1 without the other because they go hand in hand.

    "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
    Romans 5:19

    Adam fell because he didn't have faith, he disobeyed 🤬 .

    Jesus always did the things that pleased the Father, which was being obedient to Him.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    The Pharisees didn't obey 🤬 , else they would have known the time of their visitation. 🤬 said that they obeyed their father the devil and the 🤬 of their father they did, which was to crucify the Lord of glory. (Luke 19:44 speaks about not recognizing the time of visitation and John 8 speaks about the pharisees being the children of the devil because of disobedience aka no faith)

    And yes obedience saved me from sin. I am one with Christ and He is the one who obeyed fully. So Because I repented and believed the gospel I am born again. Those who belong to 🤬 are obediant, those who don't are disobedient. If I didn't obey Jesus Christ, by believing that He died for me and was raised for my justification, i would still be a lost sinner.

    So I really don't understand what your getting at. It's like your trying to play semantics with me or something? I really don't get it to be honest.

    Obedience is faith. Faith is obedience. You can't have 1 without the other because they go hand in hand.

    "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
    Romans 5:19

    Adam fell because he didn't have faith, he disobeyed 🤬 .

    Jesus always did the things that pleased the Father, which was being obedient to Him.

    Then, you must not be familiar with Matthew 5:20. Jesus was essentially saying that if your righteousness can't exceed even the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, then you can't enter the Kingdom of 🤬 . Why would he say that?
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    Then, you must not be familiar with Matthew 5:20. Jesus was essentially saying that if your righteousness can't exceed even the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, then you can't enter the Kingdom of 🤬 . Why would he say that?

    Who said I had any righteousness of mine own? Where in the last post did I say anything about me having righteousness? All my righteousness is as filthy rags in the Lords sight. So How did you come to the conclusion of me saying I had some sort of righteousness apart from Jesus Christ from what I said previously? The only righteousness that I have is the righteousness of Jesus Christ through faith in Him.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    Who said I had any righteousness of mine own? Where in the last post did I say anything about me having righteousness? All my righteousness is as filthy rags in the Lords sight. So How did you come to the conclusion of me saying I had some sort of righteousness apart from Jesus Christ from what I said previously? The only righteousness that I have is the righteousness of Jesus Christ through faith in Him.

    Then why does Jesus associates righteousness with the people you posted as "disobedient"?
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    Then why does Jesus associates righteousness with the people you posted as "disobedient"?

    Because they weren't righteous!

    "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
    Isaiah 64:6

    The only way our righteousness can exceed that of the scribes and pharisees is through faith in the only one who is righteous, JESUS CHRIST.

    The pharisees thought they were righteous and thus rejected the King of Righteousness, Jesus Christ.

    The pharisees and scribes were hypocrites, a brood of vipers, and children of the devil. 🤬 called them all those things you know?

    I think your getting caught up in semantics like I originally suspected. Jesus Christ didn't say that they were "righteous" because how can you be righteous but yet be called a child of the devil? A kingdom divided against itself can not stand.


    So again I don't really understand what your beef is with me. I believe in Jesus Christ alone. That's it, that's all. And I believe you do too. So we are on the same team my friend. We are in a fixed fight and we can't lose. Amen.
  • waterproofwaterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    So, you believe your obedience will save you from sin. Even the Pharisees obeyed. If that is the case, then why Jesus? What did he die for?
    waterproof wrote: »
    The pharisees was put in the seat of Moses by The Roman Empire and some where Gentiles remember when the most high sent isarel out of his sight and brought others in the land of canaan and the most high sent lions to devor the new inhabitants and they sent for the levites who where in captive so they can learn the laws of the most high. They learned the laws and customs but were not true isrealites, some of them where the Pharisee's and Sadducee's. That's why they killed YAHSHUA not the Hebrews but the leaders, elders who was put in the seat of Moses and yes Edom was calling the shots and Edom and Amalek were in those seats too, the same thing that you see in the churches today.

    That's why YAH sent his son to redeem The lost sheep of Isareal and to bring back what's was ours and he going to do it again when he returns. That's why he Said "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE" in Revelations because a false doctrine got his people
    alissowack wrote: »
    Then, you must not be familiar with Matthew 5:20. Jesus was essentially saying that if your righteousness can't exceed even the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, then you can't enter the Kingdom of 🤬 . Why would he say that?
    alissowack wrote: »
    Then why does Jesus associates righteousness with the people you posted as "disobedient"?

    Im going to give my take, please go back (if you will) and read my reply because im going to add on to it. Cannan the land that was given to Isarel was under Roman Control at that time, Half of the Nation of Isralel was in captive in Europeans nations and some where in the middle east (which is Africa) being captive by the ishmaelites in some where in the land that was told by Jacob to his son's in which is in the apocrypha.

    Only Levi, Judah, Benjamin was still there wilth a little of the other tribes. The PHARISEE'S AND SADUCCE'S where Gentiles, Some was Edom, Amalek and some where the other that learn the law like i said in my first reply to you (2nd Kings) The Romans put them in the seat of Moses to control the Hebrews, and Only the Levities was supposed to sit in that seat.

    They were the children of the Devil, But if you read scripture THE MESSIAH always ripped into them by telling the truth but he never did it to the point in which they can say he put his life in danger because they set in the Seat of moses and that seat was for the minsters, so if Yahushua said something they can use, they can say he speak ill of the ones who seat in Moses seat.

    Now The Messiah knows that his people knew that they know the laws but they dont live it, and they are not levities or hebrews, that's why he always ripped into them, calling the vipers ect.

    so what he was saying was these pharisees say and think and act like they are righteous, if you cant be more righteous then them, then you need help. bascially he say's Dont be like them b yjust knowing the law, but follow the law with your mind and heart and listen to your father and ELOHIM OF YOUR ANCESTORS.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    Because they weren't righteous!

    "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
    Isaiah 64:6

    The only way our righteousness can exceed that of the scribes and pharisees is through faith in the only one who is righteous, JESUS CHRIST.

    The pharisees thought they were righteous and thus rejected the King of Righteousness, Jesus Christ.

    The pharisees and scribes were hypocrites, a brood of vipers, and children of the devil. 🤬 called them all those things you know?

    I think your getting caught up in semantics like I originally suspected. Jesus Christ didn't say that they were "righteous" because how can you be righteous but yet be called a child of the devil? A kingdom divided against itself can not stand.


    So again I don't really understand what your beef is with me. I believe in Jesus Christ alone. That's it, that's all. And I believe you do too. So we are on the same team my friend. We are in a fixed fight and we can't lose. Amen.

    Still missed the point. Sure, they weren't righteous. But, was it because of their disobedience in which you say they were? They knew and kept the law.
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    waterproof wrote: »
    Im going to give my take, please go back (if you will) and read my reply because im going to add on to it. Cannan the land that was given to Isarel was under Roman Control at that time, Half of the Nation of Isralel was in captive in Europeans nations and some where in the middle east (which is Africa) being captive by the ishmaelites in some where in the land that was told by Jacob to his son's in which is in the apocrypha.

    Only Levi, Judah, Benjamin was still there wilth a little of the other tribes. The PHARISEE'S AND SADUCCE'S where Gentiles, Some was Edom, Amalek and some where the other that learn the law like i said in my first reply to you (2nd Kings) The Romans put them in the seat of Moses to control the Hebrews, and Only the Levities was supposed to sit in that seat.

    They were the children of the Devil, But if you read scripture THE MESSIAH always ripped into them by telling the truth but he never did it to the point in which they can say he talk he put his life in danger because they set in the Seat of moses and that seat was for the minsters, so if the Yahushua said something they can use, they can say he speak ill of the ones who seat in Moses seat.

    Now The Messiah knows that his people knew that they know the laws but they dont live it, and they are not levities or hebrews, that's why he always ripped into them, calling the vipers ect.

    so what he was saying was these pharisees say and think and act like they are righteous, if you cant be more righteous then them, then you need help. bascially he say's Dont be like them byjust knowing the law, but follow the law with your mind and heart and listen to your father and ELOHIM OF YOUR ANCESTORS.

    Have you ever been around people who are doing what is right, but you feel they are doing it for the wrong reasons? There are people who use their obedience as something to fuel their self-centeredness. Whether they admit to it is another matter. The Pharisees, who obeyed the law, believed they were "better" than the ones who didn't obey. Their perception of righteousness was based on whether they can keep the law. If they kept the law, they were "safe".
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    alissowack wrote: »
    Still missed the point. Sure, they weren't righteous. But, was it because of their disobedience in which you say they were? They knew and kept the law.

    That's the thing though they didn't keep the law. They substituted the law with rituals and traditions of men. Therefore they were disobedient. Read Matthew 23 and tell me how they were keepers of the law?

    "6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7But we speak the wisdom of 🤬 in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which 🤬 ordained before the world unto our glory: 8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." 1 Corinthians 2:6-8



    This thread has been derailed completely. I thought this thread was about Mystery Babylon? Not about the scribes and pharisees. Hmmmmmm.......What happened?
  • alissowackalissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2011
    That's the thing though they didn't keep the law. They substituted the law with rituals and traditions of men. Therefore they were disobedient. Read Matthew 23 and tell me how they were keepers of the law?

    "6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7But we speak the wisdom of 🤬 in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which 🤬 ordained before the world unto our glory: 8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." 1 Corinthians 2:6-8



    This thread has been derailed completely. I thought this thread was about Mystery Babylon? Not about the scribes and pharisees. Hmmmmmm.......What happened?

    The point I'm trying to make in all this is...the Pharisees made morality as the basis for their righteousness. They didn't care whether or not they were obeying to honor 🤬 . They did it so they could be honored. I could be wrong, but I believe that is the direction you are going. Obedience is good, but not on your own merit. You can't save yourself through your obedience.
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