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What makes us so different? (believers, non believers, etc)

Lambent
Lambent Members Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭
edited September 2011 in R & R (Religion and Race)
You have a group of children raised in a typical religious household.

Why do some gobble up and latch on to this belief, while others don't?

A lot will simply say intelligence is the reason, but that's not always the case seeing as there are engineers, and computer scientist who are believers. perhaps multiple intelligence comes into play here.

Another reason maybe emotion, maybe some humans would lose their minds if they didn't believe supernatural forces had their back.
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Comments

  • Jonas.dini
    Jonas.dini Confirm Email Posts: 2,507 ✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Socialization, b
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Predestination.
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Nature and nurture, biological/chemical make-up. Also, many life experiences are subjective and people put their own interpretations onto things that happen to them and others
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    judah7 wrote: »
    You believe ppl were predestined to hell or heaven?

    Is 🤬 all knowing?
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    It's complicated...is the reason.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    judah7 wrote: »
    yes... but how do you believe he predestined some ppl to hell and some ppl to heaven even before they were created?

    The Bible says it, so that settles it. I can't argue against 🤬 . It's futile.

    “For those 🤬 foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Romans 8:29-30

    Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.”
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Who can resist the will of 🤬 ? Who can understand His wisdom? 🤬 does whatever pleases Him and nobody can tell Him that He is wrong. 🤬 has every right to punish ALL of us in hell. Believers don't deserve heaven. Heaven is a gift! We deserve death. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of 🤬 is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Predestination is a tough pill to swallow. But 🤬 clearly teaches it. This is His universe. Not ours. He made it and He makes the rules.

    Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of 🤬 ! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”

    🤬 knows everything. He knows the end from the beginning. Who is like our 🤬 ? Nobody! Thats why you either believe what He says or you reject it. We still have free will.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    judah7 wrote: »
    I don't believe in hell... Notice there is no mention at one time of an everlasting hell in the Old Testament (Tanach) by either the Father YHWH or any of his prophets. When Israel disobeyed the laws of YHWH he never mentioned an afterlife hell is a punishment. Curses, slavery and death were the punishments for disobediance.

    Hell is clearly taught in the OT. I don't really want to debate this point because it's pointless to me. But I will provide the scripture references. Take it up with 🤬 and seek understanding. 🤬 bless you.

    Daniel 12:2 proclaims, "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." Hell is described here as everlasting.

    Isaiah 66:24 declares, "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." In this Scripture, hell is described as a place where the fire is not quenched.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    The Bible says it, so that settles it. I can't argue against 🤬 . It's futile.

    “For those 🤬 foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Romans 8:29-30

    Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.”

    If people are predestined to believe or not to believe, why do you keep trying to make other people believe in your fairy tales?
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    As far as my opinion, I think it's very simple. Some people are natural skeptics who always question everything before believing it to be true, most people are more accepting of what people tell them. I believe in a 🤬 but have little to no faith in religion, although I do believe Buddhism has many great qualities which I have adopted. I used to be Christian but once I read the Bible long enough and no one knew how to answer my questions, I decided to think for myself and walk away.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    If people are predestined to believe or not to believe, why do you keep trying to make other people believe in your fairy tales?

    "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:14

    Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of 🤬 . Those who are the called will respond to the gospel message. Those who don't respond to the gospel message aren't the called.
  • fiat_money
    fiat_money Members Posts: 16,654 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    I think it's mainly the ability to question and scrutinize anything.

    For me, emotional makeup played a role as well; such as not trusting people and not "loving"/fearing things.

    And yeh, among the many engineers, computer scientists, physicists, and mathematicians I associate with; most are religious.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:14

    Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of 🤬 . Those who are the called will respond to the gospel message. Those who don't respond to the gospel message aren't the called.

    I thought you believed in free will?
  • Hyde Parke
    Hyde Parke Members Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    On a generic level for discussion, thought would be a primary factor to consider when trying to determine reason(s) why people have different belief systems. Experience is another factor, you have those on both sides who have had some sort of "experience" that influences their thought, and in that, they will look for things to associate themselves with the "belief system" they have built in their minds, and therby begin to identify themselves through that system. The problem with all that is it causes division. Division that begins inwardly and then projected outwardly, the problem all that, is that fragmented thought manifests/projects itself in the physical world which causes all kinds of conflict because man has not learned how to live life as a whole, only thru fragments. Alot of emphasis is placed on ideas, and individuality, and out of that we have all this technology, but still havent learned to live amongst and respect one another.

    just some observations.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    judah7 wrote: »
    kind of like me pointing out that an everlasting hell is not mentioned anywhere in the Old Testament to poster "DoYouWantToGoToHeaven" and he was unable to respond.

    The scripture in Isaiah 66:24 out of the Old Testament says that ppl will look upon dead bodies but how can that be everlasting hell when according to that doctrine you are suppose to be alive in a new ressurrected body and not dead?
    ==============================


    Isaiah 66:24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.

    Also this scripture is talking about a place called Gehenna where they use to burn the wicked ppl AFTER they died. sort of like a cremation.

    That's your private interpretation my brother.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    I thought you believed in free will?

    Free will doesn't negate the sovereignty of 🤬 , being that He exists outside of time and space. 🤬 sees all because He eternally exists from everlasting to everlasting. He sees the whole picture from beginning to end, thats why He predestinates certain souls.

    Man on the other hand exists in time and space, bound by the laws that 🤬 has established. We don't know all things. We don't know what will even take place at 5 pm today, let alone the next minute. So our lives are filled with choices. A choice to do right or a choice to do wrong. Moment by moment we make decisions, second by second we move closer to the Omega. At the end of our lives we will have all made a decision about the Lord Jesus Christ. Those that accepted Him where predestinated before the world began to do so and those who didn't were not.

    Ultimately the ball falls in our court to respon to the message given. You can either be HUMBLE and follow 🤬 or you can be PROUD and follow the devil. The choice belongs to us. But 🤬 in his sovereignty knew the outcome before the world was established. Amen.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    judah7 wrote: »
    This is a scriptural interpretation.

    In the Old Testament it says these bodies will be dead so this is not a everlasting hell.

    The doctrine of hell is that the body is suppose to be ressurrected and cast into hell to be alive in a new immortal body. The scripture above says the body will be dead so this is not speaking of a everlasting hell. shalam

    Well 🤬 will sort it all out on the last day! I just pray that we won't be found naked before Him! Rather that we are clothed with the righteousness of Christ! Amen
  • Hypernova
    Hypernova Members Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Nature and nurture, biological/chemical make-up. Also, many life experiences are subjective and people put their own interpretations onto things that happen to them and others

    Nicely written, agreed
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    judah7 wrote: »
    well the answer is that there is no mention of hell in the Old Testament.

    If Hell is never explained in the Old Testament and 🤬 feared his ppl would go there for not obeying his laws then why does he not ever warn his ppl about it anywhere?

    This goes for the people that lived before Christ came which was thousands of years... 🤬 never warned them about a everlasting hell that they were in danger of going to so therefore I do not believe in it.

    🤬 will sort it out on the last day. You just make sure that you keep the faith so that you will be saved. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling before a holy 🤬 . Because one day we will all see Him as He is and our 🤬 is a consuming fire. Thus You better be on His side when you meet Him. Amen.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Free will doesn't negate the sovereignty of 🤬 , being that He exists outside of time and space. 🤬 sees all because He eternally exists from everlasting to everlasting. He sees the whole picture from beginning to end, thats why He predestinates certain souls.

    Man on the other hand exists in time and space, bound by the laws that 🤬 has established. We don't know all things. We don't know what will even take place at 5 pm today, let alone the next minute. So our lives are filled with choices. A choice to do right or a choice to do wrong. Moment by moment we make decisions, second by second we move closer to the Omega. At the end of our lives we will have all made a decision about the Lord Jesus Christ. Those that accepted Him where predestinated before the world began to do so and those who didn't were not.

    Ultimately the ball falls in our court to respon to the message given. You can either be HUMBLE and follow 🤬 or you can be PROUD and follow the devil. The choice belongs to us. But 🤬 in his sovereignty knew the outcome before the world was established. Amen
    .


    The bolded, how can it be our responsibility if it's predestined? I have no control over anything, any decision made based on the belief of 🤬 would be predestined, my choice isn't really a choice. It doesn't matter what I choose because it was already chosen for me. If I was destined to be this "man of 🤬 " then that wasn't a choice I made, it was a choice already laid out for me. Same with not believing in 🤬 , it's not my choice, it's a choice 🤬 decided to make by NOT choosing me. The "choice" you seem to think you have is an illusion, you feel as if you are making that decision and in 🤬 's eyes you aren't. How is true love there then? How can 🤬 love something that's already decided? If 🤬 knows the outcome because he destined it to be, how can anything be real love or hate or a surprise etc...?

    If I freely chose to be a man of 🤬 and 🤬 didn't know this decision was coming, it would have more meaning to 🤬 . 🤬 would feel loved, special, like he did something right. If 🤬 ordains it, wtf meaning does it have? It sure fools the believer into thinking they've made the "right choice" and that "they love 🤬 ", but it was already made out to be that way. So in a way, you guys are robots, we all are. We've been chosen or programmed to be who we are. You cannot argue that, this is based on your belief that predestination exists which would then completely nullify free will. It's only an illusion.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    judah7 wrote: »
    In other words according to the predestination doctrine billions of people were created to live a life on Earth jus to go to Hell for an eternity afterwards... But the chosen few were created to go to heaven for a eternity.

    This does not sound like sound doctrine to me.

    That's DoU's belief, not mine. I'm explaining how free will and predestination cannot go hand in hand. I don't care who believes in predestination tbh, it just doesn't make sense.

    If it truly is predestination, who did Jesus die for? Why does it say, "for 🤬 so loved the WORLD, he gave his only son blah blah blah.." ??? Why not, for 🤬 so loved his elect, because that's what this is, we have elect and non-elect.

    BLAH! I'm eating a taco, shhh....
  • longmeat
    longmeat Members Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    judah7 wrote: »
    I know... I dont believe in predestination. But if DoU believes that then whats the point of creating ppl to live a life if they are going to hell anyway afterwards becuz they were predestined to?

    It just proves the christian 🤬 is nothing more than a 🤬 . Or the entire 🤬 is duck tales to begin with.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    judah7 wrote: »
    I know... I dont believe in predestination. But if DoU believes that then whats the point of creating ppl to live a life if they are going to hell anyway afterwards becuz they were predestined to?

    Exactly my point and any person going to hell isn't at fault as they were already destined to go there, so no matter how many times they hear the word, attend a church service, or attempt to change their lives to be with 🤬 , they were already destined for hell. Their choices will never affect the outcome of 🤬 's 'heaven/hell'.

    It would also render any "relationship" with 🤬 meaningless.
  • chilly
    chilly Members Posts: 1,206 ✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Mind control aka pimping.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Predestination is a tough pill to swallow. This is called meat! This isn't for carnal people or babes in Christ who still need to be fed milk.

    By denying predestination, you are not only denying the scriptures that clearly teach it, which is blasphemous in it's own right, but you are also denying the Omniscience of 🤬 .

    How can 🤬 be omniscient if He didn't know who would be saved and who would be lost? It makes no sense. That's why 🤬 clearly spells out His Omniscience repeatedly in His word.

    The problem is that people try to tackle the infinite all wise wisdom of 🤬 with human reason and intellect.

    That's why when people do that they can never get on 1st base. There actually still stuck in the batter box (the natural mind) check swinging at every
    pitch. It's an endless cycle of stupidity.

    The natural man can never understand these things. It's hard enough for the spiritual
    Man to even grasp these infinite concepts of the all powerful and all knowing 🤬 .

    And whats so great about all of this is that Even after this discussion, 🤬 will still be seated on the throne, high and lifted up above all things, with all things under His feet. So He wins regardless and He still gets all the glory! It's just a privilege to be able to bring Him glory by exalting His name. Amen.