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Is there scientific evidence that the soul exists?

TX_Made713
TX_Made713 Members Posts: 3,954 ✭✭
edited May 2010 in R & R (Religion and Race)
Ran across this article and thought it was interesting. Thoughts?



http://www.helium.com/items/480041-is-there-scientific-evidence-that-the-soul-exists

In the June 2006 issue of Discover magazine there is an article entitled "Soul Search" with the subtitle "Can science ever decipher the secrets of the human soul?"

I'm not the biggest fan of Discover magazine. In recent years it has devolved in quality of content, and like Scientific American, has taken a political slant to it which tends to detract from the scientific value.

However, this article is very well written and discusses some of the deeper mysteries of what exactly is consciousness and how it fits into the field of quantum mechanics. The article spends most of its time discussing research into near-death experiences (NDEs) and Out of Body Experiences (OBEs).

The article seems to support my belief that consciousness is a phenomenon that arises out of the reflection of a wave of energy folding back upon itself which creates an interference pattern. This interference pattern takes the form of images of thought and what we think of as perception. This idea is supported in Greek mythology in the story of Narcissus and in the Bible in the book of Genesis chapter 1, where G-d's sees his reflection in the waters, which awakens and inspires the words "Let there be Light"...

The reflecting of waves to produce interference patterns is the basic principle behind holography, which is a science that uses reflections of lasers off of solid objects to produce 3 & 4-dimensional images (such as those on the front of your credit cards).

Most people think of the Big Bang as a one-time event. And most religious people think of G-d's creation of the universe as a one-time event. But the Hebrew text of Genesis uses a peculiar form of the verbage, which is better translated as "In the beginning of G-d's creating..." as is rendered by the Artscroll Stone Edition of the Chumash. The sages expound on this wordage by stating that the events of Genesis chapter 1 are a continual, on-going process that never cease, they have no beginning and no end. It is a fountainhead of creation, the universe is forever emanating from a singular source. And from that source the energy flows, striking waveforms that are slower in frequency, thus reflecting some of that energy back to the source like ripples in a pond bouncing back from the shore. When that reflected energy returns to its source, an interference pattern emerges, pictures form, and "G-d sees", then out of the darkness "there is light". Self-awareness is the result of our reflections... that self-awareness we call "ego" and "consciousness" ("ego" is simply that Latin word for "I")... We have a unique ability to see ourselves...

...but it is in our delusion of seeing that reflection ourselves, that we, like Narcissus, mistake the reflection for another... when in reality the image we are seeing is G-d itself.

Mortal! Know thyself, and thou shalt know all the gods... ~The Oracle at Delphi.



If a soul can be proven with science, then how can you call it a soul?

Definition:

The soul, in some religions, spiritual traditions, and philosophies, is the incorporeal or eternal part of a living being, commonly held to be separate from the body. Many philosophical and religious systems teach that humans have souls; some attribute souls to all living things and even inanimate objects (such as rivers); this belief is commonly called animism.[1] The soul is often believed to exit the body and live on after a person’s death, and some religions posit that 🤬 creates souls.

The soul has often been deemed integral or essential to consciousness and personality, and may be synonymous with spirit, mind or self.[2] Although the terms soul and spirit are sometimes used interchangeably, soul may denote a more worldly and less transcendent aspect of a person.[3] According to psychologist James Hillman, soul has an affinity for negative thoughts and images, whereas spirit seeks to rise above the entanglements of life and death.[4] The words soul and psyche can also be treated synonymously, although psyche has more physical connotations, whereas soul is connected more closely to spirituality and religion.[5]

Comments

  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Prude FieldsMembers Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Idk, but science can't find the mind but they agree theres one there.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited May 2010
    I dont think a soul can be proven through typical science, for typical science to prove something it basically has to be physical. Sure there's neurological science but they dont get the funding and grants to really research this type of stuff. The mind is the greatest strength and weakness to a person they need to go into it more than the government does. Personally i think the soul is just a matter of the minds imaginative workings. Near death expieriences to me is the mind going haywire because your on the brink and thus projects images your normally wouldnt get without some mind altering substance (LSD). People often think of 🤬 after death when the mind feels near death and so it projects the image of it. Those who dont believe at all in a 🤬 have a different type of near death expierience in which they see themselves only and no godly character at all, they see themselves or their soul only.
  • TX_Made713
    TX_Made713 Members Posts: 3,954 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Idk, but science can't find the mind but they agree theres one there.

    but if they were to find evidence that a soul exist, do you think that would validate religion?

    the soul could be nothing more than the mind
  • cabana da don
    cabana da don Members Posts: 36
    edited May 2010
    body + spirit = Soul.

    Soon science will prove that.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited May 2010
    body + spirit = Soul.

    Soon science will prove that.

    What is our spirit? Can you prove to me that a spirit is real?
  • cabana da don
    cabana da don Members Posts: 36
    edited May 2010
    What is our spirit? Can you prove to me that a spirit is real?

    Spirit is you.Pure energy that never ends.Your true form.It's the natural human state.
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Prude FieldsMembers Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    TX_Made713 wrote: »
    but if they were to find evidence that a soul exist, do you think that would validate religion?

    the soul could be nothing more than the mind

    There'd be some hot debate between the religions if it were proven.

    Very well could be, I certainly don't know.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited May 2010
    TX_Made713 wrote: »
    but if they were to find evidence that a soul exist, do you think that would validate religion?

    the soul could be nothing more than the mind

    How would it validate religion? It would lead to a stronger debate that a 🤬 does infact exist but for a 🤬 to exist there doesnt need to be a religion connected to it.
  • TX_Made713
    TX_Made713 Members Posts: 3,954 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    How would it validate religion? It would lead to a stronger debate that a 🤬 does infact exist but for a 🤬 to exist there doesnt need to be a religion connected to it.



    well youd have to admit, maybe not the 🤬 religions out now, but the very origin of the things that spawn from religion could be validated
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited May 2010
    TX_Made713 wrote: »
    well youd have to admit, maybe not the 🤬 religions out now, but the very origin of the things that spawn from religion could be validated

    To me the only thing it would validate, is that the oldest known writings or stories of 🤬 would be likely the only right ones. If a soul did exist as some super natural force, any religion who says 🤬 cant be seen would be wrong IMO, cause you could use your soul would allow you to travel to heavens or hells and im sure i would have figured out how to use my soul like that by now. But as far as the modern religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, would be wrong because 🤬 could be seen and heaven can be reached without death. And the people who believe religions where light skinned people arent Gods sons would also be wrong because they would also have a soul.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    I've spoken to many people who've "died and came back". One guy in particular died, in the hospital because he was involved in a car accident. He doesn't remember anything that happened from the accident. He said his doctors said he was out cold on arrival, anyway, when he "died" he said he went to Heaven and he seen Jesus there in Heaven with his dad. He said Jesus spoke in his fathers ear and then both looked at him and Jesus told him it wasn't his time and sent him back to his body. He woke up a few days later.

    I dunno, it's like strange to hear that but I know he could've made it up but then it's like what if he didn't?
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited May 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    I've spoken to many people who've "died and came back". One guy in particular died, in the hospital because he was involved in a car accident. He doesn't remember anything that happened from the accident. He said his doctors said he was out cold on arrival, anyway, when he "died" he said he went to Heaven and he seen Jesus there in Heaven with his dad. He said Jesus spoke in his fathers ear and then both looked at him and Jesus told him it wasn't his time and sent him back to his body. He woke up a few days later.

    I dunno, it's like strange to hear that but I know he could've made it up but then it's like what if he didn't?


    Alot of people are Christian and believe that when they die they go to heaven, even if he wasnt a devout christian but semi believe in the Jesus and 🤬 thing its a product of his mind. He believes death brings you to them, when he is close to death, his brain sends images of what he believes, once his brain is off that brink of death and back to normal functions it begins to act normal again. Like I said earlier I seen this thing on discovery and out of all the people who said they saw 🤬 when they had a near death expierience all were Christian, Islamic, or were neither but still feared there might be. Nobody who didnt believe in a 🤬 and had a near death expierience didnt have 🤬 in theirs at all. I believe it was like 30 people who had the 🤬 thing and were christian and 20 somethin that werent believer and had an expierience without 🤬 . Those results proved to me that is was merely a product of the mind and its imagery.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    I've heard all about the "white light" experience and it was explained, the last thing you see IS a light and something to the effect of that light is brighter while dying or something I dunno, I forgot.

    I see what you're saying but like I said, dude was out cold, he has no control over his brain so how can he THINK of 🤬 before he dies?
  • theillestrator
    theillestrator Members Posts: 1,085 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Assuming that the guy did see Jesus, is it because he really believed Jesus exist. Let's say back in ancient times, a guy who really believed in the Egyptian gods claimed to see Anubis or something. Is it just because of how his mind was conditioned? I'm trying to compare it to dreaming. You can't control what you see in your dreams, however, your dreams usually consist of things from your memories/thoughts. Are there any accounts of people of other faiths seeing their deity or maybe seeing a character from another faith? Like a Christian guy having an "after-death" experience and seeing Vishnu?


    Anyway, I don't think there is a soul. I think there is only the brain doing its work. No brain=nothingness. I see the time after death being the same as before birth.
  • TheCATthatdidntDIE
    TheCATthatdidntDIE Members Posts: 918
    edited May 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    I've heard all about the "white light" experience and it was explained, the last thing you see IS a light and something to the effect of that light is brighter while dying or something I dunno, I forgot.

    I see what you're saying but like I said, dude was out cold, he has no control over his brain so how can he THINK of 🤬 before he dies?

    it depends, there are two ways i can think of off of the top of my head. 1) the inner workings of the subconscious produced a series of visions that are basically dreams involving REM or 2) he reached his subconscious and awoke some kind of spirit deity inside of all of us that takes whatever form we need at the time. it doesnt have to be 🤬 and Jesus per se. perhaps his subconscious was reminding him that faith in anything helps you through life
  • TheCATthatdidntDIE
    TheCATthatdidntDIE Members Posts: 918
    edited May 2010
    also, i have faced death quite a few times, and none of those times have i had contact with any gods. the closest thing ive had to 🤬 talking to me was a time i was lost in the woods all night. i saw some light and i thought it was some sort of deity leading me out. but following the light was the only logical way to find my way out anyway. the sun doesnt cut through trees, so where the light shines, there arent trees. the more light the less trees. and so i found my way out.
  • Hyde Parke
    Hyde Parke Members Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Science can only provide theories.
  • theillestrator
    theillestrator Members Posts: 1,085 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Hyde Parke wrote: »
    Science can only provide theories.

    Theories can lead to law, which has happened enough times to know that saying "science can only provide theories" isn't true.