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Burden of Proof

oliverlang
oliverlang Members Posts: 593
edited May 2010 in R & R (Religion and Race)
Who has it? The believer making the claim that something exists, or the non-believer making the claim that it doesn't? Or, is there a burden at all?

Personally, I think if I make the original claim that Santa Claus exists and someone questions me about it, it's up to me to prove he exists. Afterall, I did make the original claim. But then again, after I provide my supporting arguments I don't care if you believe me or not. The presents just don't appear under my tree because of nature. Santa HAD to put them there.

Comments

  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    The burden of proof is on those who advocate for the existence of something, not those who don't.

    If someone makes a claim that there's a green man standing outside the door, it'd be up to that person to prove it. If not...then, you know the rest.

    The "claims" of the non-believer are backed up by the fact that there's no evidence to the contrary. And plus, non-believers do not make a positive claim. The only thing that can be proven is a positive claim. Thus, the burden of proof is on the BELIEVER.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited May 2010
    Religious people only want you to pull out proof he doesnt exist and the books are wrong because they have nothing else, what can they say "Your just not listening for him, he calling you, do you hear him?". Lol if someone claims there is something they need to be the ones to present the proof, the other side has repeatedly brought great theories and sometimes acual facts that religious books are fugazee at least. You could never prove a 🤬 isnt real unless we find a way to die and record what happens and then come back to the real world with the evidence.
  • And Step
    And Step Members Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Proof exist that 🤬 exist. That is not even really questionable. Everything is brought into existence by a force greater than itself.

    What needs to be proven is what or how said Creator/Force/🤬 makes itself manifest.

    That is what needs to be proven.
  • oliverlang
    oliverlang Members Posts: 593
    edited May 2010
    And Step wrote: »
    That is not even really questionable.

    If it wasn't questionable, there wouldn't be a debate.
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Religious people only want you to pull out proof he doesnt exist and the books are wrong because they have nothing else, what can they say "Your just not listening for him, he calling you, do you hear him?". Lol if someone claims there is something they need to be the ones to present the proof, the other side has repeatedly brought great theories and sometimes acual facts that religious books are fugazee at least. You could never prove a 🤬 isnt real unless we find a way to die and record what happens and then come back to the real world with the evidence.

    Much truth in this post.

    And the bolded statements are negatives. And you can't prove a negative, regardless.

    The only types of claims that have the basis to be proven are positive claims. And saying "there is a 🤬 " is making a positive claim. And thus, it'd be up to that person who's making that claim to prove 🤬 's existence.
  • And Step
    And Step Members Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    oliverlang wrote: »
    If it wasn't questionable, there wouldn't be a debate.

    Well there are always fools.
  • theillestrator
    theillestrator Members Posts: 1,085 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Apparently there isn't proof...only people convincing themselves that there is.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    I think both would have to prove it but the burden depends on what is at stake for the person. Those who don't believe 🤬 exist don't feel as if their existence is dependent on 🤬 existing so why prove it. And if they are the ones to make the claims of 🤬 's non-existence, their confidence in science and mere observation makes it that much easier.
  • Rock_Well
    Rock_Well Members Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Proof is everywhere, but some people make the mistake of denying any proof they don't want to accept
  • oliverlang
    oliverlang Members Posts: 593
    edited May 2010
    Proof is everywhere, but some people make the mistake of denying any proof they don't want to accept

    That "proof" has other, more creditable explanations. Who's is right?
  • Rock_Well
    Rock_Well Members Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    oliverlang wrote: »
    That "proof" has other, more creditable explanations. Who's is right?

    More creditable explanations.

    Such as, hearing aid by design, the human ear by random chance?
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Proof is everywhere, but some people make the mistake of denying any proof they don't want to accept

    What "proof"?

    Simply saying "goddidit" isn't proof...
  • hrap-120
    hrap-120 Members Posts: 9,449 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Proof is everywhere, but some people make the mistake of denying any proof they don't want to accept
    Can you prove that?
  • Rock_Well
    Rock_Well Members Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    It's not about whether the facts exist or not, it's about what a person believes as being behind those facts.
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    It's not about whether the facts exist or not, it's about what a person believes as being behind those facts.

    Interesting.

    c h a r a c t e r s.
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Prude FieldsMembers Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    What proof could be brought to prove something doesn't exist? I'd think the burden rests on the one saying it does exist, they might have something to bring to the table.
  • independentsoundlab
    independentsoundlab Members Posts: 351
    edited May 2010
    Your answer to all questions religion: Ras Kass Nature of the Threat..
    Google it, close this whole Race & Religion subforum..