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Is It Wrong or Contrary To Be Black And Christian??

SL8Rok
SL8Rok Members Posts: 154
edited June 2010 in R & R (Religion and Race)
Often when discussing my christian faith with friends, family and online the question commonly comes up, "how can you be black and christian that is the religion that was given to you by slave masters" or "how can you be black and christian that religion was used to enslave your ancestors". And while I cannot deny that many professing christians were indeed responsible for slavery and using parts of the bible to justify brutalizing other people, I would argue that these reasons are very short sided and obtuse in looking at the whole of christianity as practiced.

But first I would like to give a stab at the answer how can I be black and christian. The key points of about christianity that I'm looking at isn't its history or the people who supposedly practice it, however when examining any religion or epistemology, the key thing to look at is its teachings and message. And in that I find that christianity is the truth. Every religion and ideology has its black sheep. Surely the socialist wouldn't dare associate socialism with 🤬 , Mao and Stalin and they would infact argue that they weren't true socialist. Likewise simply because people have taken christianity and twisted it to their own ends doesn't discredit or take away from christianity it only lends weight to the age old adage that where there is a will there is a way.

Now onto the idea that christianity is a slave religion. That is an obtuse take on the subject. Yes there were slave masters who used parts of the bible (out of context and interpreted FOR them seeing as how slaves couldn't read and therefore couldn't give said passages their context) to justify slaves being slaves and whites being masters, but this is also to ignore the large number of white christians in the abolition movement who risked life and limb to get blacks to freedom and all the while evangelizing them. I believe this argument is also ignorant of history because before the time of slavery, the rise of the catholic church or european colonization of the world there were christian churches in Africa. The Ethiopic Orthodoxy and Coptic/Alexandrian Church in Egypt where african churches, so to say that Africans were forced into Christianity is a complete and total lie. Africans had been accepting Christianity since the 2nd century. Now if we are going to apply this obtuse standard to christianity we must also do the same with Islam because Muslim slave traders took blacks from africa and sold them as slaves. In many instances converting blacks to islam for the purpose of going out to find other blacks to enslave. That would make Louis Farrakahn both the biggest 🤬 /hypocrite in america because he is promoting a slave religion that supposedly helps black people.

To summarize I'd like to say that it is in no way problematic or contrary to be black and christian. While we can all agree the bible was used to justify the enslavement and kiling ofl black people in africa, where most people are unwilling to understand or compromise is that parts of the bible or any book taken out of context can be justified to do anything. The communist manifesto and subseuqent writers on communism have had their works used to justify the worst kind of human atrocities in the 20th century. Evolution was turned into a racist doctrine called social darwinism which stated that all non-whites were subhuman and attempted to put science behind that. And yet you ask any evolutionist if they believe this to be true and they would say no. Why then this one sided and often hypocritical and always hateful stance against christianity? The arguments blacks use against it are all based on fallacious points and normally facetious facts. Simply because Jesus is depicted as white in many churches has no bearing on what the bible says about Jesus skin color (note it doesn't say anything). Slaves being indoctrinated into christianity says nothing about the validity of christianity, at most that says (as I've said before) anything can be used to justify anything. And as much as people want to assert it, there is no evidence scholarly otherwise, to prove the bible was tampered with. So in all there really is no contradiction or problem, either philosophically or logically with being black and christian.
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Comments

  • Chike
    Chike Members Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Sad, just sad, Brothers trying to justify their slave religion because they just can't let go.
  • thespookwhosatbythed
    thespookwhosatbythed Banned Users Posts: 164
    edited May 2010
    Chike wrote: »
    Sad, just sad, Brothers trying to justify their slave religion because they just can't let go.

    you aint lying. this 🤬 want to praise a 🤬 that forced your ancestors into slavery. smmfh. and who the hell said we dont agree with the islam part? i hate that 🤬 too. man you just need to 🤬 yourself right now. smh at obtuse. 🤬 plz
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Chike wrote: »
    Sad, just sad, Brothers trying to justify their slave religion because they just can't let go.

    How is that? You're the one that just can't let go.

    Blue stays schooling people.
  • oliverlang
    oliverlang Members Posts: 593
    edited May 2010
    Chike wrote: »
    Sad, just sad, Brothers trying to justify their slave religion because they just can't let go.

    While I don't believe in Christianity, I don't think Christanity is the problem. For instance, you have a knife that has cut apples for years and then one day someone takes the knife and kills someone. Is it the knife's fault (Christianity)? Or the murderer (slave masters)? As much as I disagree with Christianity, it wasn't created specifically for slavery. Christianity, like anything else, can be used for good or bad.
  • Chike
    Chike Members Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    How is that? You're the one that just can't let go.

    Blue stays schooling people.


    Let go of what? I used to be a christian until I found out what's really going on. I woke up to reality, and in order to do that, you have to let go of that nonsense.

    oliverlang wrote: »
    While I don't believe in Christianity, I don't think Christanity is the problem. For instance, you have a knife that has cut apples for years and then one day someone takes the knife and kills someone. Is it the knife's fault (Christianity)? Or the murderer (slave masters)? As much as I disagree with Christianity, it wasn't created specifically for slavery. Christianity, like anything else, can be used for good or bad.



    It actually was, though, that's the thing. lol
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Chike wrote: »
    Let go of what? I used to be a christian until I found out what's really going on. I woke up to reality, and in order to do that, you have to let go of that nonsense.


    It actually was, though, that's the thing. lol



    What's really going on? Stop with the bs linking or "look it up". I want YOU to explain it. SL8Rok is explaining to you how the bible was taken out of context and what he says is not just plausible but true. Just because one's agenda with the following of Christianity is wrong doesn't mean it is all flawed. You have flaws in everything, some type of deceiving in anything. The bible hasn't been proven to be flawed, the people who misuse it have.

    But explain to me. Please.

    btw, what I mean by "you cannot let go" is that, you're black right? The vast majority of black people hold on to slavery, anything related to slavery is considered evil and whatever you believe. That's what I mean by you cannot let go.
  • melanated khemist
    melanated khemist Members Posts: 608 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    oliverlang wrote: »
    While I don't believe in Christianity, I don't think Christanity is the problem. For instance, you have a knife that has cut apples for years and then one day someone takes the knife and kills someone. Is it the knife's fault (Christianity)? Or the murderer (slave masters)? As much as I disagree with Christianity, it wasn't created specifically for slavery. Christianity, like anything else, can be used for good or bad.

    What was the form of christianity that the majority of westerners practice created for? What REAL good comes from Christianity?
  • oliverlang
    oliverlang Members Posts: 593
    edited May 2010
    What was the form of christianity that the majority of westerners practice created for? What REAL good comes from Christianity?

    There has been good things that came from christianity, such as foundations for the hopeless, inspiration, guidence, food for poor, housing shelters, etc...Also, good and bad are subjective...if you ask any Chrisitian what good has Christianity done for them, they can run down a huge list of why it's been a positive force in their life. With that being said, i also believe that if christianity didn't exist something else would have filled the void. So, like I said...it can be used for good or bad...it's just a tool in my opinion.
  • oliverlang
    oliverlang Members Posts: 593
    edited May 2010
    Chike wrote: »


    It actually was, though, that's the thing. lol

    Well, that's up for debate.
  • melanated khemist
    melanated khemist Members Posts: 608 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    oliverlang wrote: »
    There has been good things that came from christianity, such as a foundation for the hopeless, inspiration, guidence, food for poor, housing shelters, etc...however, i also believe that if christianity didn't exist something else would have filled the void. So, like I said...it can be used for good or bad...it's just a tool in my opinion.

    I see what your saying, even though i think for the most part it comes from the heart not christianity.
  • DarcSkies777
    DarcSkies777 Members Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Lets not forget that the people who sold them to the Christians were Muslim.

    That said, worshiping in the religion that justified your enslavement is flat out 🤬 . No excuse what-so-ever for it.
  • oliverlang
    oliverlang Members Posts: 593
    edited May 2010
    I see what your saying, even though i think for the most part it comes from the heart not christianity.

    I agree. But a Christian will most likely argue that it's their roots that are founded in Christanity that inspire them to do the things they do. *shrugs*
  • Chike
    Chike Members Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    What's really going on? Stop with the bs linking or "look it up". I want YOU to explain it. SL8Rok is explaining to you how the bible was taken out of context and what he says is not just plausible but true. Just because one's agenda with the following of Christianity is wrong doesn't mean it is all flawed. You have flaws in everything, some type of deceiving in anything. The bible hasn't been proven to be flawed, the people who misuse it have.

    But explain to me. Please.

    btw, what I mean by "you cannot let go" is that, you're black right? The vast majority of black people hold on to slavery, anything related to slavery is considered evil and whatever you believe. That's what I mean by you cannot let go.



    Either you're a 🤬 or you're a white guy in denial if you think Black people Hold on to slavery as if it's over and done with and had absolutely no effect on what's going on in this present day, not to mention the BS that's STILL to this day going on. You probably think Racism doesn't exist anymore. So there's no point in explaining anything to you. You're old enough to have been able to see what's going on and clearly made the decision not to care or to dismiss it.


    And the point of Christianity is to enslave your mind/soul. It's supposed to make you think your right, even though you got no facts. It is used as either a tool to justify evil acts and bahavior that would otherwise be resisted by any normal thinking intelligent human being, or it is used as a pacifyer for those who think they are good and innocent because they obey the law and have a good job. Not every christian partook in the crusades, inquisition or extermination/enslavement of natives but those who didn't still obeyed the law and didn't fight to oppose them because their mentality is... "Let 🤬 sort it out. When we die, we go to heaven, they go to hell" <~~~ THAT is PACIFICATION and the soul purpose of religion.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Chike wrote: »
    Either you're a 🤬 or you're a white guy in denial if you think Black people Hold on to slavery as if it's over and done with and had absolutely no effect on what's going on in this present day, not to mention the BS that's STILL to this day going on. You probably think Racism doesn't exist anymore. So there's no point in explaining anything to you. You're old enough to have been able to see what's going on and clearly made the decision not to care or to dismiss it.


    And the point of Christianity is to enslave your mind/soul. It's supposed to make you think your right, even though you got no facts. It is used as either a tool to justify evil acts and bahavior that would otherwise be resisted by any normal thinking intelligent human being, or it is used as a pacifyer for those who think they are good and innocent because they obey the law and have a good job. Not every christian partook in the crusades, inquisition or extermination/enslavement of natives but those who didn't still obeyed the law and didn't fight to oppose them because their mentality is... "Let 🤬 sort it out. When we die, we go to heaven, they go to hell" <~~~ THAT is PACIFICATION and the soul purpose of religion.

    I apologize for my ignorance of slavery, I shouldn't have said that. I'll leave that be. No, I am not black. I am hispanic/white. Anyway...

    I've never thought, THEY GO TO HELL.

    When someone preaches the Word of 🤬 and they refuse to listen, no matter what, (like here) it's not up to me to tell you, "Chike, you're going to hell". Not my place or even thought. 🤬 will be the judge of that.

    And 🤬 will sort it out, when everyone dies it is sorted out then.

    Has the soul been proven? Because the bible speaks of a soul, in which you just verify. The bible doesn't enslave any minds or souls for any bad type of thoughts or actions. The bible guides your mind and soul to the Truth, the Light, the Life, the Way, to 🤬 .

    If the Christian bible was full of bad mean mean things, then I'd see your point. The FACT is it isn't. You cats take it out of context, and it will not matter how many posts of explanations, proofs, thoughts or anything, you guys will NEVER see the fact behind 🤬 . Everything after an answer is, "well.. what about this", someone responds, "well then.. what about this"...

    You guys play a game of circles, playing and playing and playing until you think your "logic" or "science" can debunk the bible or 🤬 and the fact is no one can. The bible can speak for itself. There is evidence of a flood, it's written in other cultures. It goes on forever. No one can disprove the bible or the existence of 🤬 , period, it's IMPOSSIBLE. No matter how much you try, you'll fail. I swear there's a verse for almost every thing you guys argue, the bible says something. DoU has posted them too many times but it's overlooked and said to be "🤬 , crazy, LOL" type of remarks.

    It's the stupid saying, "can you see air?" No but you know its there because we're alive, without it we'd die. 🤬 is air, 🤬 is everywhere.

    For me, THE ONLY WAY to disprove 🤬 ? Prove actual complex, thinking, breathing, human type life exists on other planets. That is the ONLY way I'd EVER stop believing. And even that, cannot be found. Science has looked and looked and hasn't found anything. Not ONE signal has came back to give us any chance of finding life. The AAT is only a theory, it cannot be proven.
  • Chike
    Chike Members Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    I apologize for my ignorance of slavery, I shouldn't have said that. I'll leave that be. No, I am not black. I am hispanic/white. Anyway...

    I've never thought, THEY GO TO HELL.

    When someone preaches the Word of 🤬 and they refuse to listen, no matter what, (like here) it's not up to me to tell you, "Chike, you're going to hell". Not my place or even thought. 🤬 will be the judge of that.

    And 🤬 will sort it out, when everyone dies it is sorted out then.

    Has the soul been proven? Because the bible speaks of a soul, in which you just verify. The bible doesn't enslave any minds or souls for any bad type of thoughts or actions. The bible guides your mind and soul to the Truth, the Light, the Life, the Way, to 🤬 .

    If the Christian bible was full of bad mean mean things, then I'd see your point. The FACT is it isn't. You cats take it out of context, and it will not matter how many posts of explanations, proofs, thoughts or anything, you guys will NEVER see the fact behind 🤬 . Everything after an answer is, "well.. what about this", someone responds, "well then.. what about this"...

    You guys play a game of circles, playing and playing and playing until you think your "logic" or "science" can debunk the bible or 🤬 and the fact is no one can. The bible can speak for itself. There is evidence of a flood, it's written in other cultures. It goes on forever. No one can disprove the bible or the existence of 🤬 , period, it's IMPOSSIBLE. No matter how much you try, you'll fail. I swear there's a verse for almost every thing you guys argue, the bible says something. DoU has posted them too many times but it's overlooked and said to be "🤬 , crazy, LOL" type of remarks.

    It's the stupid saying, "can you see air?" No but you know its there because we're alive, without it we'd die. 🤬 is air, 🤬 is everywhere.

    For me, THE ONLY WAY to disprove 🤬 ? Prove actual complex, thinking, breathing, human type life exists on other planets. That is the ONLY way I'd EVER stop believing. And even that, cannot be found. Science has looked and looked and hasn't found anything. Not ONE signal has came back to give us any chance of finding life. The AAT is only a theory, it cannot be proven.


    We're not talking about 🤬 , we're talking about Christianity. I varified the soul because to me it's a metaphor that distinguishes a person's individuality. 🤬 is not the topic, Christianity is. If 🤬 was the topic, explain away every other thousands of Gods that belong to all the other religions of the world. The Bible was also written in Hebrew, which if translated into English would make absolutely no sense to us, which is why the Bible is all over the place, mis-translation as well as purposefully mis-translations. Didn't 🤬 say, dont put trust in man? Well, man edited and re-translated the Bible. If Christians REALLY want to follow 🤬 , they would take it upon themselves to learn Hebrew and read the original Hebrew bible. Otherwise you're a hypocrite or foolish or both.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Chike wrote: »
    We're not talking about 🤬 , we're talking about Christianity. I varified the soul because to me it's a metaphor that distinguishes a person's individuality. 🤬 is not the topic, Christianity is. If 🤬 was the topic, explain away every other thousands of Gods that belong to all the other religions of the world. The Bible was also written in Hebrew, which if translated into English would make absolutely no sense to us, which is why the Bible is all over the place, mis-translation as well as purposefully mis-translations. Didn't 🤬 say, dont put trust in man? Well, man edited and re-translated the Bible. If Christians REALLY want to follow 🤬 , they would take it upon themselves to learn Hebrew and read the original Hebrew bible. Otherwise you're a hypocrite or foolish or both.

    Actually, I am trying to take up Hebrew. I would love to learn the original language of the bible then read it for what it is.

    I know were talking about Christianity and what I'm explaining to you is it isn't a bible that is,

    "a tool to justify evil acts and bahavior that would otherwise be resisted by any normal thinking intelligent human being, or it is used as a pacifyer for those who think they are good and innocent because they obey the law and have a good job"

    🤬 does not justify evil, he hate it. He says you will go to hell for evil acts, only if you do not repent from those evils. How does is that a tool for evil? Again, been taken out of context.

    For people who use it as a pacifier, they're using it wrong then. The bible isn't used to say, "oh well I'm good because lookie here, it says so". That's not the point of the bible.
  • SL8Rok
    SL8Rok Members Posts: 154
    edited May 2010
    you aint lying. this 🤬 want to praise a 🤬 that forced your ancestors into slavery. smmfh. and who the hell said we dont agree with the islam part? i hate that 🤬 too. man you just need to 🤬 yourself right now. smh at obtuse. 🤬 plz

    So I take it neither of you read what I wrote. The same religion supposedly practiced by the slave masters is the same religion that the abolitionist and quakers practiced that took our ancestors in and kept them safe. What about them? Do they not count? White christians marched along side black civil rights leaders, do they get no love? Many white christians lost their lives protecting blacks in the underground railroad, are we to write them off? I think yall are the ones that can't let go.
  • SL8Rok
    SL8Rok Members Posts: 154
    edited May 2010
    Chike wrote: »
    Let go of what? I used to be a christian until I found out what's really going on. I woke up to reality, and in order to do that, you have to let go of that nonsense.






    It actually was, though, that's the thing. lol

    So there were no slaves prior to the 1st century? And how can christianity have been created for slavery when it was created at least 14 centuries before the slave trade. I've heard of conspiracy theories but you guys go wild sometimes.
  • SL8Rok
    SL8Rok Members Posts: 154
    edited May 2010
    What was the form of christianity that the majority of westerners practice created for? What REAL good comes from Christianity?

    EXACTLY it was a FORM of christianity.....but it was NOT Christianity.
  • SL8Rok
    SL8Rok Members Posts: 154
    edited May 2010
    Lets not forget that the people who sold them to the Christians were Muslim.

    That said, worshiping in the religion that justified your enslavement is flat out 🤬 . No excuse what-so-ever for it.

    The religion did not sell blacks into slavery. Correct me if I'm wrong but you do believe in evolution correct? Are you aware that social darwinism which spawned off of evolutionary thought attempted to scientifically justify racism and making white people superior to all other peoples. If you watch Maafa21 it outlines in great detail how blacks were killed, sterilized in mass and diseased for the sake of "scientific" research. Are you now going to stop believeing in science or evolution simply because it caused the death of many blacks? If not why the double standard?
  • thespookwhosatbythed
    thespookwhosatbythed Banned Users Posts: 164
    edited May 2010
    SL8Rok wrote: »
    So I take it neither of you read what I wrote. The same religion supposedly practiced by the slave masters is the same religion that the abolitionist and quakers practiced that took our ancestors in and kept them safe. What about them? Do they not count? White christians marched along side black civil rights leaders, do they get no love? Many white christians lost their lives protecting blacks in the underground railroad, are we to write them off? I think yall are the ones that can't let go.

    🤬 an abolitionist, quaker, and those muthafuckas who walked in civil rights. they all have something in common though. they were trying to help us(blacks)but we werent the ones terrorizing blacks. why didnt they go talk to their white brotheren who were terrorizing blacks? shows you how much you know.
  • SL8Rok
    SL8Rok Members Posts: 154
    edited May 2010
    🤬 an abolitionist, quaker, and those muthafuckas who walked in civil rights. they all have something in common though. they were trying to help us(blacks)but we werent the ones terrorizing blacks. why didnt they go talk to their white brotheren who were terrorizing blacks? shows you how much you know.

    Do you think all white people meet once a week to decide who to oppress/terrorize next? LOL. Thats not how it works. And whites did talk to their white bretheren about the evils of slavery. Thats what the whole abolitionist movement was about. And F the abolitionist, quakers and white civil rights movement members? I tell you 🤬 can say some really ignorant things sometimes. I guess ALL whites are guilty of enslaving blacks aren't they? You are such a victim. It must truly suck to be you.
  • thespookwhosatbythed
    thespookwhosatbythed Banned Users Posts: 164
    edited May 2010
    SL8Rok wrote: »
    Do you think all white people meet once a week to decide who to oppress/terrorize next? LOL. Thats not how it works. And whites did talk to their white bretheren about the evils of slavery. Thats what the whole abolitionist movement was about. And F the abolitionist, quakers and white civil rights movement members? I tell you 🤬 can say some really ignorant things sometimes. I guess ALL whites are guilty of enslaving blacks aren't they? You are such a victim. It must truly suck to be you.

    you dont understand. youre the one who's ignorant. the thang that im sayin is why walk with the people who are enslaved. why not go against the people who are doing the enslaving. in the civil rights era why should you walk with people being persecuted? why not go up to the white people who were doing the persecution. you give all these white people props for walking with the 🤬 but dont want to criticize them for not going to the root of the problem. gtfohwtbs. you either a hunkey or a uncle tom. anyway you swing it you ll never understand.
  • Chike
    Chike Members Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    Actually, I am trying to take up Hebrew. I would love to learn the original language of the bible then read it for what it is.

    I know were talking about Christianity and what I'm explaining to you is it isn't a bible that is,

    "a tool to justify evil acts and bahavior that would otherwise be resisted by any normal thinking intelligent human being, or it is used as a pacifyer for those who think they are good and innocent because they obey the law and have a good job"

    🤬 does not justify evil, he hate it. He says you will go to hell for evil acts, only if you do not repent from those evils. How does is that a tool for evil? Again, been taken out of context.

    For people who use it as a pacifier, they're using it wrong then. The bible isn't used to say, "oh well I'm good because lookie here, it says so". That's not the point of the bible.


    I said Christianity is the tool, not the Bible. Christianity mistranslates the Bible to fit their belief system.

    SL8Rok wrote: »
    So there were no slaves prior to the 1st century? And how can christianity have been created for slavery when it was created at least 14 centuries before the slave trade. I've heard of conspiracy theories but you guys go wild sometimes.


    Christianity as you know it was created out of Rome where they also had slaves. The Christian crusades used that christianity to conquer the moors and re-take Europe but they didn't stop there, the inquisition came next, and then the Slave Trade followed, and now you got the aftermath of people who can't let it go despite Religion not really being that important to the leaders who now rely mostly on TV and the media to brainwash the world.
  • And Step
    And Step Members Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    If they are like you? Yes

    If they are like Jesus, Marcus Garvey, Willie Wilson, Albert Cleage, Jawanza Kunjufu- No.