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Mariah Carey vs. Mary J. Blige

Punisher__
Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
edited July 2010 in R&B & Alternatives
Both of these artists came out in the early 90's.

And both are still standing, today.

But who really has been the most influential of the two?

I've heard people say, and I quote "Mary is the most important R&B Artist of the last 20 or so years."

I don't agree. Do you?
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Comments

  • mrjun18
    mrjun18 Members Posts: 207
    edited May 2010
    Mary >>>>> any female R&B artist that debuted in 1990 or after.
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    mrjun18 wrote: »
    Mary >>>>> any female R&B artist that debuted in 1990 or after.

    Care to elaborate?
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Mary helped invent a new sound ( Hip Hop Soul ). A sound that Mariah herself has used. So I am going with MJB
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Mrslim1 wrote: »
    Mary helped invent a new sound ( Hip Hop Soul ). A sound that Mariah herself has used. So I am going with MJB

    Mary didn't "invent" that sound.

    People were fusing hip hop and soul music YEARS before Mary.
  • arbitration
    arbitration Members Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Wow, this is a tough one. Both artists innovated a new sound (Mary- hip hop soul, Mariah- r&b pop sound), and both have the most unique voices in the game. I may have to give the slight advantage to Mary for the sole reason that she has tried to experiment more, especially with her recent music, whereas Mariah has consistently maintained the same pop/r&b vibe for the past decade or so. But I have no problem with either
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    Mary didn't "invent" that sound.

    People were fusing hip hop and soul music YEARS before Mary.

    I said " helped ' invent. She was an important part of that sound coming popular. But regardless of the particulars I choose Mary
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Mrslim1 wrote: »
    I said " helped ' invent. She was an important part of that sound coming popular. But regardless of the particulars I choose Mary

    Why do you say that?

    Janet Jackson was topping the charts in the 80's, with her hip hop infused r&b...

    If anybody made it popular, it was Janet.
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    Why do you say that?

    Janet Jackson was topping the charts in the 80's, with her hip hop infused r&b...

    If anybody made it popular, it was Janet.

    I consider Janet more of Pop sound . We can agree to disagree tho.
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    What a lot of people tend to forget is that New Jack Swing was also a fusion of hip-hop and r&b music...and it predates whatever "hip hop soul" is.

    I'm going with Mariah here. Because, well, she popularized it and took it to mainstream, pop artists.
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    What a lot of people tend to forget is that New Jack Swing was also a fusion of hip-hop and r&b music...and it predates whatever "hip hop soul" is.

    I'm going with Mariah here. Because, well, she popularized it and took it to mainstream, pop artists.

    Yea it is . I guess what I moreso mean is that MJB had more what you would call traditional hip hop beats with soul singing over them.
  • blatin35
    blatin35 Members Posts: 176
    edited May 2010
    Mrslim1 wrote: »
    I consider Janet more of Pop sound . We can agree to disagree tho.

    Most of Janet's pop songs have a r&b base sound..
  • Cake4real
    Cake4real Members Posts: 815
    edited May 2010
    Mary J. Blige and I'm not debating about this
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    What exactly has Mary done that is "influential"?
  • boat1580
    boat1580 Members Posts: 200
    edited May 2010
    well, it took mary j. blige longer to grab the attention/interest of the mainstream public. both have been pretty influential, that's kind of tough. i'm not a fan of either artist but i know for sure mary j. blige has influenced/affected me much more.
  • mrjun18
    mrjun18 Members Posts: 207
    edited May 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    Mary didn't "invent" that sound.

    People were fusing hip hop and soul music YEARS before Mary.

    Mary innovated it and took it where it had never gone before.

    Mary's catalogue is also waaay more diverse and spread out than Mariah's. Besides a stronger voice, and the success and a few other categories I can think of right now, Mariah ain't got much on Mary. Whether it's music videos, subject matter, critically acclaimed albums/classics, style, etc..... Mary beats in most categories IMO.
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    What exactly has Mary done that is "influential"?
    Her music speaks for itself.... Ask Monica, Keyshia Cole, etc. and just about any other female R&B artist that debuted after her. I bet most of them would have Mary on a higher ranking than Mariah in terms of influence on their careers. What exactly has Mariah done that is so influential? And don't say "fusing pop/r&b" to mainstream, because many artists like Whitney, Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam, Karyn White, Jody Watley etc. all did that 🤬 in the 80's. LOL.
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    mrjun18 wrote: »
    Mary innovated it and took it where it had never gone before.

    Mary's catalogue is also waaay more diverse and spread out than Mariah's. Besides a stronger voice, and the success and a few other categories I can think of right now, Mariah ain't got much on Mary. Whether it's music videos, subject matter, critically acclaimed albums/classics, style, etc..... Mary beats in most categories IMO.


    Her music speaks for itself.... Ask Monica, Keyshia Cole, etc. and just about any other female R&B artist that debuted after her. I bet most of them would have Mary on a higher ranking than Mariah in terms of influence on their careers. What exactly has Mariah done that is so influential? And don't say "fusing pop/r&b" to mainstream, because many artists like Whitney, Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam, Karyn White, Jody Watley etc. all did that 🤬 in the 80's. LOL.

    When people say that Mariah fused pop/r&b and took it mainstream arenas, it just means that from '95 - '00, Mariah was the only pop act who was doing this type of fusion...shortly before it exploded, mainstream wise. Mariah basically made it her style to add urban elements to her pop music, in which every song she released either had a rapper featured on it, or had r&b/hip hop elements in some other form. It did become a trend, mainstream wise, shortly after Mariah did it.

    And to say Mary "innovated it", you'd be ignoring previous work by artists such as Janet Jackson.
  • mrjun18
    mrjun18 Members Posts: 207
    edited May 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    When people say that Mariah fused pop/r&b and took it mainstream arenas, it just means that from '95 - '00, Mariah was the only pop act who was doing this type of fusion...shortly before it exploded, mainstream wise. Mariah basically made it her style to add urban elements to her pop music, in which every song she released either had a rapper featured on it, or had r&b/hip hop elements in some other form. It did become a trend, mainstream wise, shortly after Mariah did it.

    And to say Mary "innovated it", you'd be ignoring previous work by artists such as Janet Jackson.


    Janet did not innovate it. She was arguably the back bone in terms of popularizing it in the 80s and was at the forefront of it, but there was other aritsts doing it too.....but then again it was more pop/rnb than hiphop soul.
    Janet did what Mariah was doing 10-15 years earlier so Mariah really wasn't the only person doing that pop/soul fusion. From 'Control' to 'All For You', Janet held it down....Mariah was there too and may have been a bit more popular in the second half of the 90's but Janet was still doing her thing.

    Mary did innovate the hip-hop/soul sound like never before.... When Janet was around in the 80's, yes she was the most popular female artist doing it along with Whitney and others, but When Mary dropped it was just "different",. Janet and them were singing on New Jack Swing beats, but Mary was on that next 🤬 ... more urban hiphop/soul than ever. Not just her own work, but work on other peoples stuff, collabos, her style/appearance etc.a ll have a part in the innovation of modern hiphop/soul. Right then is when Aaliyah, Brandy etc all dropped and bit off that sound. She IS called the queen of hiphop/soul for a reason and I have never heard anyone say anything about it or deny her of that title.
  • arbitration
    arbitration Members Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    What exactly has Mary done that is "influential"?


    One of the most underrated songs. Both of them killed it.
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    mrjun18 wrote: »
    Janet did not innovate it. She was arguably the back bone in terms of popularizing it in the 80s and was at the forefront of it, but there was other aritsts doing it too.....but then again it was more pop/rnb than hiphop soul.
    Janet did what Mariah was doing 10-15 years earlier so Mariah really wasn't the only person doing that pop/soul fusion. From 'Control' to 'All For You', Janet held it down....Mariah was there too and may have been a bit more popular in the second half of the 90's but Janet was still doing her thing.

    Mary did innovate the hip-hop/soul sound like never before.... When Janet was around in the 80's, yes she was the most popular female artist doing it along with Whitney and others, but When Mary dropped it was just "different",. Janet and them were singing on New Jack Swing beats, but Mary was on that next 🤬 ... more urban hiphop/soul than ever. Not just her own work, but work on other peoples stuff, collabos, her style/appearance etc.a ll have a part in the innovation of modern hiphop/soul. Right then is when Aaliyah, Brandy etc all dropped and bit off that sound. She IS called the queen of hiphop/soul for a reason and I have never heard anyone say anything about it or deny her of that title.

    See, this is where it becomes problematic.

    Firstly, Mary didn't innovate the "hip-hop soul" sound because she was not the first artist to fuse the two genres. People tend to forget that New Jack Swing was/is also a hybrid fusion of hip hop and soul music, and Janet was doing this years before Mary. To say "Mary innovated it", you're ignoring albums like "Control" and "Rhythm Nation 1814." Think of it like this...if a car stops on a highway, and another car hits it, and another, and another, and the chain reaction continues. Can you really pick the 4th car, for example, and say that is what caused the accident? After Janet did it, you had Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Jody Watley, AND Mary...all following suit. Collabos, as well.

    And with regard to Mariah and Janet. Janet was more of a contemporary r&b artist, as opposed to a vanilla, pop, adult contemporary artist, like a Mariah. From '95-'00, Mariah was the ONLY fully pop act doing it, on a consistent basis. I guess you could make an argument for Madonna. But Madonna really only had ONE album that had urban influences, Bedtime Stories. The whole fusion of the two (pop/urban) didn't become a staple in her music, consistently, until after Mariah.

    Janet wasn't making pop music, per se. She was making r&b music that just so happened to be popular.
  • mrjun18
    mrjun18 Members Posts: 207
    edited May 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    See, this is where it becomes problematic.

    Firstly, Mary didn't innovate the "hip-hop soul" sound because she was not the first artist to fuse the two genres. People tend to forget that New Jack Swing was/is also a hybrid fusion of hip hop and soul music, and Janet was doing this years before Mary. To say "Mary innovated it", you're ignoring albums like "Control" and "Rhythm Nation 1814." Think of it like this...if a car stops on a highway, and another car hits it, and another, and another, and the chain reaction continues. Can you really pick the 4th car, for example, and say that is what caused the accident? After Janet did it, you had Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Jody Watley, AND Mary...all following suit. Collabos, as well.

    And with regard to Mariah and Janet. Janet was more of a contemporary r&b artist, as opposed to a vanilla, pop, adult contemporary artist, like a Mariah. From '95-'00, Mariah was the ONLY fully pop act doing it, on a consistent basis. I guess you could make an argument for Madonna. But Madonna really only had ONE album that had urban influences, Bedtime Stories. The whole fusion of the two (pop/urban) didn't become a staple in her music, consistently, until after Mariah.

    Janet wasn't making pop music, per se. She was making r&b music that just so happened to be popular.

    I guess we agree to disagree. Its like Puff Daddy and Mainstream pop/rap.....He wasnt the first to do it or anything like that, you had MC Hammer and etc. before him, but what Puff did took it to a whole new level in the shiny suit era. Mary kind did the same thing with hiphop/soul. Janet's music wasn't exactly hiphop/soul just because they sang over hiphop beats. All NJS artist did that, from Jodeci, Tony Toni Tone, GUy etc... but the sound was different and more urban hihop influenced than before when she stepped on the scene. This sound she brought is mostly what is influenced by hiphop/soul artists of today. And yes Janet was making pop music but more so pop/soul rather than hiphop soul. Not exactly R&B that popular either. Songs like Escapade, Love Will Never Do, When I think of You etc. sounds more 'pop' than R&B if you really listen to what Jam and Lewis did on them tracks.

    I guess we agree to disagree.
  • il nonno
    il nonno Members Posts: 124 ✭✭
    edited June 2010
    Mariah takes it hands down. Even her singing is ridiculous. Mary is def not touching her there..
  • daboywonder2002
    daboywonder2002 Members Posts: 36
    edited June 2010
    the difference to me is at least mary shows growth and maturity in her music. while mariah shows the exact opposite
  • dj expanium
    dj expanium Confirm Email Posts: 3,581 ✭✭
    edited July 2010
    il nonno wrote: »
    Mariah takes it hands down. Even her singing is ridiculous. Mary is def not touching her there..
    Yes, Mariah does have a higher range than Mary.
    the difference to me is at least mary shows growth and maturity in her music. while mariah shows the exact opposite
    Mary's songs are relatable to what a lot of women experience/go through. That's just my opinion.
  • Ordem e Progresso
    Ordem e Progresso Members Posts: 142
    edited July 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    Both of these artists came out in the early 90's.

    And both are still standing, today.

    But who really has been the most influential of the two?

    I've heard people say, and I quote "Mary is the most important R&B Artist of the last 20 or so years."

    I don't agree. Do you?


    Mary has been more influencial in hip hop and as an artist.

    Mariah has been more of a success commercially and more influencial on that front giving pop artists permission to use hiphop and edgier urban sounds in mainstream music.

    Funny thing is Mary always tries to do something new or grow with her work and keeps getting bigger, while Mariah got huge, fell off, then had to build back and stuck to a formula to coast and keep selling records.

    Bother of their best work is behind them though.
  • not this again!
    not this again! the dude playing the dude, disguised as another dude Members Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2010
    the difference to me is at least mary shows growth and maturity in her music. while mariah shows the exact opposite

    Exactly.

    Mariah makes essentially the same exact album every single time.