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History channel [/,or, instead of, and] Religion

perspective@100
[email protected] Members Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭✭
edited June 2010 in R & R (Religion and Race)
Is the Goal of the History channel to debunk religion?

They call the writers of the bible story tellers and what not.

They claim there are numerous misinterpretations in the bible.

"Ancient Civilizations" pretty much makes you believe we were in the presence of alien lifeforms in ancient times who were percieved as gods...

Any thoughts?
«1

Comments

  • theillestrator
    theillestrator Members Posts: 1,085 ✭✭
    edited June 2010
    -history channel is full of shows that deal with theories, some good, some are pretty much worthless (Life After People)

    -all signs point at the writers of the bible being story tellers

    -since there are multiple interpretations of the bible, either all of them are wrong, or only one is correct.

    -I think you just have to take Ancient Civilizations for what it is. Some of it sounds pretty interesting but I'm not ready to fully endorse it.
  • independentsoundlab
    independentsoundlab Members Posts: 351
    edited June 2010
    Is the Goal of the History channel to debunk religion?

    They call the writers of the bible story tellers and what not.

    They claim there are numerous misinterpretations in the bible.

    "Ancient Civilizations" pretty much makes you believe we were in the presence of alien lifeforms in ancient times who were percieved as gods...

    Any thoughts?


    History channel knows history.. enough to make programs about religion, science, exposing a lil bit of all.. Thats their job..
    Bible is a book full of stories.. people have their thoughts about the bible.. its your call either to believe or not to.. most of the 🤬 is there.. still people ignore it.. typical religious folk..

    Ancient Civilization definitely gets you thinking.. but instead of me asking bout what happen in the past.. im asking, where tha 🤬 they go??
  • perspective@100
    [email protected] Members Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2010
    -history channel is full of shows that deal with theories, some good, some are pretty much worthless (Life After People)

    -all signs point at the writers of the bible being story tellers

    -since there are multiple interpretations of the bible, either all of them are wrong, or only one is correct.

    -I think you just have to take Ancient Civilizations for what it is. Some of it sounds pretty interesting but I'm not ready to fully endorse it.

    Well the fact that its almost impossible today to make some of those Pyramids and various stone walls just makes you wonder. I mean entire societies with no written language out doing are best architects today. Thats astonishing. How the hell do you lift and place a 1200ton stone thats carved from the hardest rock if you don't even have the wheel yet?
  • theillestrator
    theillestrator Members Posts: 1,085 ✭✭
    edited June 2010
    Well the fact that its almost impossible today to make some of those Pyramids and various stone walls just makes you wonder. I mean entire societies with no written language out doing are best architects today. Thats astonishing. How the hell do you lift and place a 1200ton stone thats carved from the hardest rock if you don't even have the wheel yet?

    i'm not sure where i said that was impossible or possible, i'm talking about the theory as a whole.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited June 2010
    No, it doesnt try to debunk religion. What it does do is explains things without using the bible, plays shows off of theories, and tells of things that were forbbiden from the bible that should have been also included, things that certain religions did that they try to keep hidden, etc...
    Do they do this to say "Hey look relgion is bologna and we need to believe in aliens, the big bang, and evolution", No. They do it because its part of the past, its something that gains alot of viewers, and its so easy to find things that can debunk religion that its hard to come across something that deals with Scientific law, Scientific theory, conspiracies, and history without showing religion isnt all peace and brotherhood , isnt all definitive proof of 🤬 , and doesnt have solid anything outside of faith to support it.

    They call the writers of the bible story tellers because of the gospels all but 1 would be. The one lone gospel is the only written during the time the original disciples would have been alive, the rest were written after a time they would have died. That would mean the real writers were writing a story that was passed on to them because they would not have seen any of it.

    There are numberous misinterpretations in the bible, even christians have trouble agreeing or disagreeing with what certain things mean.

    Ancien Alien Theory, They dont make anyone believe. They present solid evidence on one side, use historical texts to help lend credence to their findings, and end up giving a more solid explanation of the events told in books like the bible and our beginnings as a species. Its up to the person wether they find it to be enough proof to believe or not.
  • whar67
    whar67 Members Posts: 542
    edited June 2010
    Well the fact that its almost impossible today to make some of those Pyramids and various stone walls just makes you wonder. I mean entire societies with no written language out doing are best architects today. Thats astonishing. How the hell do you lift and place a 1200ton stone thats carved from the hardest rock if you don't even have the wheel yet?

    We can easily build a replica of the pyramids at Giza. Moving the 2 1/2 ton rocks is trivial for us. This issue is it would be expensive and at the end you just have a pile of rocks. If you use modern building materials, $375 million, and 968 workers you can make a similar pyramid in 2 years and have it have 4,407 rooms rather than the handful the older pyramids have. In fact you could gamble and see Carrot Top there too.

    The largest rock found in a pyramid was around 200 tonnes, however temple at the Giza site have rocks upto 400 tonnes in size.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited June 2010
    whar67 wrote: »
    We can easily build a replica of the pyramids at Giza. Moving the 2 1/2 ton rocks is trivial for us. This issue is it would be expensive and at the end you just have a pile of rocks. If you use modern building materials, $375 million, and 968 workers you can make a similar pyramid in 2 years and have it have 4,407 rooms rather than the handful the older pyramids have. In fact you could gamble and see Carrot Top there too.

    The largest rock found in a pyramid was around 200 tonnes, however temple at the Giza site have rocks upto 400 tonnes in size.

    So we need to use modern machines to cut the stone and move them?

    I will say it is possible to move all those blocks over the 20 year period, however cutting stones so precise and cutting stones that can only be cut with diamond tipped tools has no explanation for that time period.
  • whar67
    whar67 Members Posts: 542
    edited June 2010
    So we need to use modern machines to cut the stone and move them?

    I will say it is possible to move all those blocks over the 20 year period, however cutting stones so precise and cutting stones that can only be cut with diamond tipped tools has no explanation for that time period.

    None of that happened. I have watch specials on the sphinx where they were able to cut stones like those in the sphinx using copper and stone tools. It is just amazingly labour intentsive.

    We might use diamond tipped equipment today to cut stone similar to that used in the pyramids but that is due to it being the easiest and most cost effective way.

    the craftsmen that built the pyramids were very skilled but nothing they did is a real mystery.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited June 2010
    whar67 wrote: »
    None of that happened. I have watch specials on the sphinx where they were able to cut stones like those in the sphinx using copper and stone tools. It is just amazingly labour intentsive.

    We might use diamond tipped equipment today to cut stone similar to that used in the pyramids but that is due to it being the easiest and most cost effective way.

    the craftsmen that built the pyramids were very skilled but nothing they did is a real mystery.

    Diamond cheaper than copper? LMAO alright 🤬 it im done talkin it with you
  • independentsoundlab
    independentsoundlab Members Posts: 351
    edited June 2010
    whar67 wrote: »
    We can easily build a replica of the pyramids at Giza. Moving the 2 1/2 ton rocks is trivial for us. This issue is it would be expensive and at the end you just have a pile of rocks. If you use modern building materials, $375 million, and 968 workers you can make a similar pyramid in 2 years and have it have 4,407 rooms rather than the handful the older pyramids have. In fact you could gamble and see Carrot Top there too.

    The largest rock found in a pyramid was around 200 tonnes, however temple at the Giza site have rocks upto 400 tonnes in size.



    Easily not.. lets not even bring up modern day technology.. they supposedly did it in 20 years.. WHICH is impossible without any help.. No way in hell you can cut a stone, drag it up, and place it down 24/7 for 20 years.. it means you would have to be working night and day.. basically every 1 hour you would have done 4-5 blocks (if that).. you need massive manpower..

    using modern day tech.. same situation.. our issue will be cutting to EXACT dimensions, the perimeter around the whole pyramid needs to be on point, cranes for transporting the boulders, a quarry for the stones, massive amounts of money for tools, laborers, etc.. will be over the billion mark.. not 375 million.. one diamond cut blade will prolly cut 2 stones b4 getting dull.. so its impossible to build a replica.. no way in hell.. not even in your head you can build it.. facts!
  • perspective@100
    [email protected] Members Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2010
    whar67 wrote: »
    None of that happened. I have watch specials on the sphinx where they were able to cut stones like those in the sphinx using copper and stone tools. It is just amazingly labour intentsive.

    We might use diamond tipped equipment today to cut stone similar to that used in the pyramids but that is due to it being the easiest and most cost effective way.

    the craftsmen that built the pyramids were very skilled but nothing they did is a real mystery.

    Yeah I think your waaaay off this time. You have not seen the show yet apparently. There are rocks not at the pyramid maybe but at certain places that wieghed around 1200 tons. You'll like this show
    Check it out>>>>>>
  • perspective@100
    [email protected] Members Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2010
    This one is better, gets right to the point!
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited June 2010
    If anyone wants the ancient alien episodes hit me up bought the dvds last week and ripped em all already
  • whar67
    whar67 Members Posts: 542
    edited June 2010
    Diamond cheaper than copper? LMAO alright 🤬 it im done talkin it with you

    Well since a diamond tipped quarrying tool would be machine driven and copper for be hand driven you have the cost of the copper for each worker and the additional lbour cost for these workers. Expensive fixed costs do not need to result in expensive processes nor do inexpensive ones result in inexpensive processes.
  • whar67
    whar67 Members Posts: 542
    edited June 2010
    It is kinda sad that instead of giving to the Egyptians the greatness they deserve for their accomplishment we think aliens are a better answer. The pyramids are not perfect they are just extremely well-built for the period. The length of each sides varies for instance by about 4.4cm. That is almost a 2 inch difference from one side to an other. That level of misplacement would be unacceptable today but in their day it was extraordinary. They worked for 30 years on the great pyramid broken into 10 years of prep time and 20 years of construction. On an average day they would need to lay about 400 stones. These stones weigh between 2.5 to 6 tonnes. The largest stone ever cut was the unfinished Obelisk at Aswan at 1200 tonnes. Nothing in the Great pyramid approaches that size. The largest stone in a pyramid is about 200 tonnes which is on the pyramid at Saqqara.

    Nothing the egyptian did was beyond their ability or technology. They did not have help. They were a great people that busted their ass and built something amazing.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2010
    whar67 wrote: »
    We can easily build a replica of the pyramids at Giza. Moving the 2 1/2 ton rocks is trivial for us. This issue is it would be expensive and at the end you just have a pile of rocks. If you use modern building materials, $375 million, and 968 workers you can make a similar pyramid in 2 years and have it have 4,407 rooms rather than the handful the older pyramids have. In fact you could gamble and see Carrot Top there too.

    The largest rock found in a pyramid was around 200 tonnes, however temple at the Giza site have rocks upto 400 tonnes in size.

    Now I really know that you talk out your backside.

    I have never heard such ridiculous claims in my life. The building of the Great Pyrimad of Giza CAN NOT be duplicated even with our technology today. THIS IS A FACT, not opinion. Get real whar.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2010
    Also, the Great Pyramid of Giza was built by Enoch with direction from 🤬 . Only 🤬 would know how to build such an edifice as that.

    "While being the oldest structure, the Great Pyramid is the most accurately oriented, its sides being aligned true North, South, East and West with such accuracy navigators can swung a compass. The Great Pyramid is only three minutes deviant, and Raymond Capt claims this is due mainly to subsidence. Modern man's best effort, the Paris Observatory, is six minutes off true north. Architects and engineers who have studied the Pyramid's structure contend we could not build it today, indicating man is in a state of entropy."


  • whar67
    whar67 Members Posts: 542
    edited June 2010
    What exactly is so hard to recreate? We launch probes to other worlds through billions of miles of space and hit our targets in some cases asteriods several 100m across. We can trivially align our buildings to any point on the compass if we desired.

    Out of a morbid paradoxical curiousity how do they know the pyramid points to the compass points? Probably because we measured it ... and if we measured it why can't we repeat it?
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited June 2010
    whar67 wrote: »
    Well since a diamond tipped quarrying tool would be machine driven and copper for be hand driven you have the cost of the copper for each worker and the additional lbour cost for these workers. Expensive fixed costs do not need to result in expensive processes nor do inexpensive ones result in inexpensive processes.

    A diamond is not cheaper than copper in any way shape or form. slaves did the work, the only thing paid for would have been tools, and thats if they didnt have slaves working in their own mines and quarrys. END OF STORY.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited June 2010
    whar67 wrote: »
    What exactly is so hard to recreate? We launch probes to other worlds through billions of miles of space and hit our targets in some cases asteriods several 100m across. We can trivially align our buildings to any point on the compass if we desired.

    Out of a morbid paradoxical curiousity how do they know the pyramid points to the compass points? Probably because we measured it ... and if we measured it why can't we repeat it?

    The fact your comparing our modern advanced technology to their known technology proves your just 🤬 lost. They had no where near the technology we have now, not an ounce. If they did it must have been sent into space cause its nowhere on or in the earth to be found. Where you keep getting "OF COURSE THEY CAN BUILT PYRAMIDS, AND MOVE 50,000 TON STONES INTO PERFECT PLACE AND CUTTING 🤬 ONLY CUTTABLE WITH DIAMONDS MAKES PERFECT SENSE, WE HAVE ROCKETS AND THE ABILITY TO CLONE NOW AND WE HAVE CRANES, WHERE IS IT HARD?"

    Well the fact we have people now with all this technology who cant do some of these things and the fact we have no archaeological evidence as to how they built them built them says a whole lot of different fact from whatever your trying to get at.
  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited June 2010
    A diamond is not cheaper than copper in any way shape or form.
    diamonds are more common than copper and infinitely less useful

    their price is kept artificially inflated by the De Beers company and a few others. they keep barges full of diamonds and flood the market any time a competitor steps up, so nobody can get in the game and they can set the price back wherever they want it.

    copper is one of the most useful metals we've ever mastered and it's harder to extract from the earth than diamonds, and harder to refine.



    so.


    there ya go.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited June 2010
    diamonds are more common than copper and infinitely less useful

    their price is kept artificially inflated by the De Beers company and a few others. they keep barges full of diamonds and flood the market any time a competitor steps up, so nobody can get in the game and they can set the price back wherever they want it.

    copper is one of the most useful metals we've ever mastered and it's harder to extract from the earth than diamonds, and harder to refine.



    so.


    there ya go.

    So you have a book on the prices in ancient egypt? I can post some scrolls that say gems were more precious then metals during that time.

    Also take in the fact there are no diamonds discovered from that era or nothing that depicts a diamond in anything makes it even more fascinating as to how they used them to cut stone and then magically disolve them.
  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited June 2010
    we have no archaeological evidence as to how they built them built them
    wtf are you talmbout?

    we got all kinds of evidence as to how it was done.

    this "we dont know how they did it" meme is promoted by television and books to keep the money coming in from rubes who don't want to read boring real information.




    you know how they built the pyramids? it ain't that complex. all you need is a few guys who know some math, a bunch of rock to quarry, and a few thousand expendable laborers.

    you cut the rocks, you move them with slave labor, you pay artisans to arrange them properly, levers, ropes, pulleys, sand displacement techniques, etc. etc.
  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited June 2010
    I can post some scrolls
    we dont believe you

    you need more scrolls
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited June 2010
    wtf are you talmbout?

    we got all kinds of evidence as to how it was done.

    this "we dont know how they did it" meme is promoted by television and books to keep the money coming in from rubes who don't want to read boring real information.




    you know how they built the pyramids? it ain't that complex. all you need is a few guys who know some math, a bunch of rock to quarry, and a few thousand expendable laborers.

    you cut the rocks, you move them with slave labor, you pay artisans to arrange them properly, levers, ropes, pulleys, sand displacement techniques, etc. etc.

    At the time pyramids were constructed they pulley wasnt invented yet. And no we have no proof, alot of theories. Those with pulleys and sand displacement have been proven not to work. And for slaves to quarry the rocks, pull them sometimes 100 miles, cut them there, then use another shitload of slaves to pull the large rocks would be nothing short of miraculous.

    The only thing we have stating how they did it is an old text saying they used a white lotion like liquid on them and that would make they float 6 feet at a time. Thats acual writing from the people alive at the time, now go find what does that and get back to me. Go find your 🤬 theories being done now and get back to me. Go figure out a way to pull a rock 100 miles in the 🤬 desert with malnurished people and get back to me.