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The Nag Hammadi Text and The Sethianism

waterproof
waterproof Conqueror of SelfOn The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 2012 in R & R (Religion and Race)
What is the Nag Hammadi and who is Sethians?? We about to take a look into these people.

Some say they are the first christians, some say they were a sect of the hebrew that was influence by fallen angels and the hellenist greek.

Let's get some understanding. I will post some articles on these people in it's scriptures.
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Comments

  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    Nag Hammadi Codex II (designated by siglum CG II) is a papyrus codex with a collection of early Christian Gnostic texts in Coptic (Sahidic dialect).[1] The manuscript has survived in nearly perfect condition. The codex is dated to the 4th century. It is the only complete manuscript with the text of the Gospel of Thomas.[2]

    The manuscript was written on papyrus in the form of a codex. The measurements of the leaves are 254 mm by 158 mm. Originally the codex contained 76 unnumbered leaves, now 74 leaves. It is written in Sahidic dialect. Pages A–B are blank.[3] The codex contains:
    The Apocryphon of John
    The Gospel of Thomas, a sayings gospel, pages C–D blank
    The Gospel of Philip
    The Hypostasis of the Archons
    On the Origin of the World
    The Exegesis on the Soul
    The Book of Thomas the Contender.[4]
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    The Sethians were a Christian Gnostic sect who may date their existence to before Christianity.[1] Their influence spread throughout the Mediterranean into the later systems of the Basilideans and the Valentinians[citation needed]. Their thinking, though it is predominantly Judaic in foundation, is arguably strongly influenced by Platonism. Sethians are so called for their veneration of the biblical Seth, third son of Adam and Eve, who is depicted in their myths of creation as a divine incarnation; consequently, the offspring or 'posterity' of Seth are held to comprise a superior elect within human society.

    Ok that's real important to me i believe they were a small sect of hebrews and at that time the hellenist doctrine of the greeks was slipping through and was forced on the hebrews. These people could be the ones that accepted the hellenist doctrine. As this state they was influence by Platonism.


    The first mention of Sethians (Latin Sethoitae) is by Pseudo-Tertullian,[2] who like Irenaeus, mentions Ophites and Sethians together (Ch.30).[3] According to Frederik Wisse (1981)[4] all subsequent accounts appear to be largely dependent on Irenaeus.[5] Hippolytus repeats information from Irenaeus. According to Epiphanius of Salamis (c.375) Sethians were in his time found only in Egypt and Palestine, although fifty years before they had been found as far away as Greater Armenia (Panarion 39.1.1 2; 40.1).[6] One of the sources of Epiphanius, the lost Syntagma of Hippolytus, was also the source for Christian heresies before Noetus in Philaster's Catalogue of heresies. Nathaniel Lardner (1838) noted that Philaster places the Ophites, Cainites, and Sethians as pre-Christian Jewish sects.[7] However, since Sethians identified Seth with Christ (Second Logos of the Great Seth), the view of Philaster that the Sethians had pre-Christian origins, other than in syncretic absorption of Jewish and Greek pre-Christian sources, has been questioned by some modern scholarship.[8]
    [edit]Sethian texts

    Non-Christian texts
    The Apocalypse of Adam - but surviving with Christian redaction.
    Christian texts
    The Apocryphon of John
    The Thought of Norea
    The Trimorphic Protennoia
    The Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians
    The Gospel of Judas
    Later texts (arguably with a Platonist influence)
    Zostrianos
    Three Steles of Seth
    Marsanes
    Allogenes
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    The Sethian Gnostics
    Perhaps the most important of the Gnostic sects are the Sethians. The term "Sethian Gnostics" is a modern one; and some scholars have even suggested this is a totally artificial classification. But it is apparent that a number of Nag Hammadi texts do share a great deal in common as regards their cosmology and terminology, so for the sake of convenience we can refer to these as "Sethian"



    THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ PAGANISM

    The Sethian or 'Classic' gnostic myth

    Commonly, the Sethian cosmogonic myth describes an intended prologue to the events of Genesis and the rest of the Pentateuch, which by its emendation brings about a radical reinterpretation of the typical orthodox Jewish conception of creation, and the divine's relation to reality. This myth is typically presupposed by Sethian manuscripts, and occasionally by those of later schools. Many of their concepts derived from a fusion of Hellenic philosophy, Platonic (c. 427–c. 347 BC), and later, Neoplatonic (ca. 253 AD) concepts with the Old Testament. This was also done by Hebrew scholar Philo (20 BC - 40 AD), who had engaged in a similar fusion.

    The Sethian cosmogony was most famously contained in the Apocryphon of John, which describes an unknown 🤬 , the same as Paul had done in the Acts of the Apostles 17:23. The latter conception defines 🤬 through a series of explicit positive statements called cataphatic theology, themselves universal but in the divine taken to their superlative degrees: as well as being explicitly male, he is omniscient and omnipotent. The Sethian conception of 🤬 is, by contrast, defined through negative theology exclusively: he is immovable, invisible, intangible, ineffable.

    This Apophatic Theology (Negative theology) mode of thinking about 🤬 is found throughout Gnosticism, Vedantic Hinduism, Platonic and Aristotelean theology, and Eastern Orthodox theology as well. It may be seen in some Judaic sources.
    Sethianism posits a transcendent hidden invisible 🤬 that is beyond ordinary description, much as Plato (see Parmenides) and Philo had also stated earlier in history. It is only possible to say what 🤬 isn't, and the experience of it remains something, again, in defiance of rational description.
    [edit]The emanation of the spiritual universe

    This original 🤬 went through a series of emanations, during which its essence is seen as spontaneously expanding into many successive 'generations' of paired male and female beings, called 'aeons'. The first of these is Barbelo, a figure common throughout Sethianism, who is coactor in the emanations that follow. The aeons that result can be seen as representative of the various attributes of 🤬 , themselves indiscernible when not abstracted from their origin. In this sense, Barbelo and the emanations may be seen as poetic devices allowing an otherwise utterly unknowable 🤬 to be discussed in a meaningful way amongst initiates. Collectively, 🤬 and the aeons comprise the sum total of the spiritual universe, known as the Pleroma.

    At this point the myth is still only dealing with a spiritual, non-material universe. In some versions of the myth, the Spiritual Aeon Sophia imitates 🤬 's actions in performing an emanation of her own, without the prior approval of the other aeons in the Pleroma. This results in a crisis within the Pleroma, leading to the appearance of the Yaldabaoth, a 'serpent with a lion's head'. This figure is commonly known as the demiurge, after the figure in Plato's Timaeus. (Gr. δημιουργός dēmiourgós, Latinized demiurgus, meaning "artisan" or "craftsman", lit. "public or skilled worker", from δήμιος demios (belonging to the public) + έργον ergon (work).)[9] This being is at first hidden by Sophia but subsequently escapes, stealing a portion of divine power from her in the process.
    [edit]The creation of matter


    Using this stolen power, Yaldabaoth creates a material world in imitation of the divine Pleroma. To complete this task, he spawns a group of entities known collectively as Archons, 'petty rulers' and craftsmen of the physical world. Like him, they are commonly depicted as theriomorphic, having the heads of animals. Some texts explicitly identify the Archons with the fallen angels described in the Enoch tradition in Judaic apocrypha. At this point the events of the Sethian narrative begin to cohere with the events of Genesis, with the demiurge and his archontic cohorts fulfilling the role of the creator. As in Genesis, the demiurge declares himself to be the only 🤬 , and that none exist superior to him; however, the audience's knowledge of what has gone before casts this statement, and the nature of the creator itself, in a radically different light.
    The demiurge creates Adam, during the process unwittingly transferring the portion of power stolen from Sophia into the first physical human body. He then creates Eve from Adam's rib, in an attempt to isolate and regain the power he has lost. By way of this he attempts to 🤬 Eve who now contains Sophia's divine power; several texts depict him as failing when Sophia's spirit transplants itself into the Tree of Knowledge; thereafter, the pair are 'tempted' by the serpent, and eat of the forbidden fruit, thereby once more regaining the power that the demiurge had stolen.


    As is evident, the addition of the prologue radically alters the significance of events in Eden; rather than emphasizing a fall of human weakness in breaking 🤬 's command, Sethians (and their inheritors) emphasize a crisis of the Divine Fullness as it encounters the ignorance of matter, as depicted in stories about Sophia. Adam and Eve's removal from the Archon's paradise is seen as a step towards freedom from the Archons, and the serpent in the Garden of Eden in some cases becomes a heroic, salvific figure rather than an adversary of humanity or a 'proto-Satan'. Eating the fruit of Knowledge is the first act of human salvation from cruel, oppressive powers.



    SAME THING IS IN THE NAG HAMMADI THEY HAVE MAJORITY OF THE SAME TEXT'S AND THINKING
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    The Sethian Gnostics
    Perhaps the most important of the Gnostic sects are the Sethians. The term "Sethian Gnostics" is a modern one; and some scholars have even suggested this is a totally artificial classification. But it is apparent that a number of Nag Hammadi texts do share a great deal in common as regards their cosmology and terminology, so for the sake of convenience we can refer to these as "Sethian".


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^VERY IMPORTANT

    The Sethians are so-called because, naturally, they hold the biblical character of Seth up as a savior-figure. So Seth is to the non-Christian Gnostics what Christ is to the Christians.

    According to Professor John D. Turner of the University of Nebraska, Sethianism passed through five phases, which can be listed as follows (John D. Turner, Sethian Gnosticism: A Literary History, p.56 (in Nag Hammadi, Gnosticism and Early Christianity (ed. C.W. Hedrick and R. Hodgson; Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1986), 55-86.):

    (1) During the first century before to the first century of the Commen Era, Sethianism was a non-Christian baptismal sect that considered itself possessing the primordial wisdom revealed to the still human Adam and Seth, and also expecting also a messianic visitation of Seth. This was typical of the Messianic mind-set of the time; Christianity itself began as precisely such a Messianic religion, centred around Jesus. In the case of the Sethians, here we would have the Source material for later writings: Sophia myth, exegesis on Genesis, and the baptisimal rite. I would also include here the Apocalypse of Adam, a very early work that would seem to be transitional between Jewish and Gnostic apocalyptic, in its original form, and the above quoted fragment from The Testimony of Truth.

    (2) During the later first to second century C.E. Sethianism became gradually Christianised through contact with Christian baptisimal groups, and identified Seth or Adam with their pre-existent Christ. Here then Seth and Adam are transformed from human to supernatural beings. Representative texts include the Apocalypse of Adam in its completed form, the Apocryphon of John, the Hypostasis of the Archons, The Thought of Norea , and Trimorphic Protennoia.

    (3) During the later second century C.E. Sethianism became increasingly estranged from Christianity, and its own doctrines become more orthodox and codified. Typical here is the The Gospel of the Egyptians, perhaps the "classic" Sethian work, and a secondarily Sethianised Jewish piece called Melchezidec (named after the mythical high priest).

    (4) By the third century C.E. Sethianism had rejected by the Christian Church, while meanwhile becoming increasingly attracted to the individualistic mystical practices of Platonism, and also adopting Platonic (Neopythagorean, Middle Platonic, and Neoplatonic) metaphysical and numerological ideas. This is the period of the Church heresiological accounts, and Sethian texts like Allogenes, Zostrianos, and The Three Steles of Seth, which incorporate various Neopythagorean and Neoplatonic ideas.

    (5) By the later third century C.E. Sethianism had become estranged from Platonism (Neoplatonism), and was becoming increasingly fragmented into various derivative and sectarian gnostic groups. Texts from this period of decline include Marsanes and the Bruce Codex.

    In the later (i.e. 200 C.E. on; stages (4) and (5) above) Sethian writings there is the tendency towards monism, a somewhat more positive attitude toward the
    material world, and, in Zostrianos and Marsanes, a more elaborate and sophisticated account of the various planes of existence, including the sub-spiritual (sub-pleromatic) realms
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    I will add some more later, digest this.........question to be asked how and why they broke off from the original teaching, who influence them.

    HEBREWS if this dont agree with the Tanach then it's what the Father speaks against
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    edited December 2011
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    lol, thinking this is not going to have other sources, again i will add some more later. It's good to have more than one sources from different people so we can get a clear understanding on Nag Hammadi and the people who influence it and believe in the same thing.

    A lot of paganism in those texts and people need to know what they are reading. Sophia and other greek influence needs to be pointed out
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    The Sethian Gnostics

    Perhaps the most important of the Gnostic sects are the Sethians. The term "Sethian Gnostics" is a modern one; and some scholars have even suggested this is a totally artificial classification. But it is apparent that a number of Nag Hammadi texts do share a great deal in common as regards their cosmology and terminology, so for the sake of convenience we can refer to these as "Sethian".

    The Sethians are so-called because, naturally, they hold the biblical character of Seth up as a savior-figure. So Seth is to the non-Christian Gnostics what Christ is to the Christians



    The Sethians are so-called because, naturally, they hold the biblical character of Seth up as a savior-figure. So Seth is to the non-Christian Gnostics what Christ is to the Christians.

    According to Professor John D. Turner of the University of Nebraska, Sethianism passed through five phases, which can be listed as follows (John D. Turner, Sethian Gnosticism: A Literary History, p.56 (in Nag Hammadi, Gnosticism and Early Christianity (ed. C.W. Hedrick and R. Hodgson; Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1986), 55-86.):


    (1) During the first century before to the first century of the Commen Era, Sethianism was a non-Christian baptismal sect that considered itself possessing the primordial wisdom revealed to the still human Adam and Seth, and also expecting also a messianic visitation of Seth. This was typical of the Messianic mind-set of the time; Christianity itself began as precisely such a Messianic religion, centred around Jesus. In the case of the Sethians, here we would have the Source material for later writings: Sophia myth, exegesis on Genesis, and the baptisimal rite. I would also include here the Apocalypse of Adam, a very early work that would seem to be transitional between Jewish and Gnostic apocalyptic, in its original form, and the above quoted fragment from The Testimony of Truth

  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    The Sethian Gnostics



    (2) During the later first to second century C.E. Sethianism became gradually Christianised through contact with Christian baptisimal groups, and identified Seth or Adam with their pre-existent Christ. Here then Seth and Adam are transformed from human to supernatural beings. Representative texts include the Apocalypse of Adam in its completed form, the Apocryphon of John, the Hypostasis of the Archons, The Thought of Norea, and Trimorphic Protennoia.

    (3) During the later second century C.E. Sethianism became increasingly estranged from Christianity, and its own doctrines become more orthodox and codified. Typical here is the The Gospel of the Egyptians, perhaps the "classic" Sethian work, and a secondarily Sethianised Jewish piece called Melchezidec (named after the mythical high priest).

    (4) By the third century C.E. Sethianism had rejected by the Christian Church, while meanwhile becoming increasingly attracted to the individualistic mystical practices of Platonism, and also adopting Platonic (Neopythagorean, Middle Platonic, and Neoplatonic) metaphysical and numerological ideas. This is the period of the Church heresiological accounts, and Sethian texts like Allogenes, Zostrianos, and The Three Steles of Seth, which incorporate various Neopythagorean and Neoplatonic ideas.

    (5) By the later third century C.E. Sethianism had become estranged from Platonism (Neoplatonism), and was becoming increasingly fragmented into various derivative and sectarian gnostic groups. Texts from this period of decline include Marsanes and the Bruce Codex.

    In the later (i.e. 200 C.E. on; stages (4) and (5) above) Sethian writings there is the tendency towards monism, a somewhat more positive attitude toward the material world, and, in Zostrianos and Marsanes, a more elaborate and sophisticated account of the various planes of existence, including the sub-spiritual (sub-pleromatic) realms [Ibid, pp.83-5].
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    edited December 2011
    was doing some research and found out that the movie "The Matrix" incorporates ancient gnostic teachings and worldviews within the film... interesting

  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    more like looking for a rebuttal, lol...... more articles coming on this pagan greek influence with greek mythology, as we try to see the other elements that influence the nag hammadi
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    edited December 2011
    waterproof wrote: »
    more like looking for a rebuttal, lol...... more articles coming on this pagan greek influence with greek mythology, as we try to see the other elements that influence the nag hammadi

    there is nothing pagan about the Nag Hammadi gospels that I have come across so far... You are basing your opinion on preconceived notions and bias on what u alone "think" to be truth.
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    edited December 2011
    Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas [Hardcover]

    http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Belief-Secret-Gospel-Thomas/dp/0375501568


    Elaine Pagels, one of the world’s most important writers and thinkers on religion and history, and winner of the National Book Award for her groundbreaking work The Gnostic Gospels, now reflects on what matters most about spiritual and religious exploration in the twenty-first century. This bold new book explores how Christianity began by tracing its earliest texts, including the secret Gospel of Thomas, rediscovered in Egypt in 1945.

    Shortly after Elaine Pagels’ two-and-half-year-old son was diagnosed with a rare lung disease, the religion professor found herself drawn to a Christian church again for the first time in many years. In Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas Pagels, best know for her National Book Award-winning The Gnostic Gospels, wrestles with her own faith as she struggles to understand when--and why--Christianity became associated almost exclusively with the ideas codified in the fourth-century Nicene Creed and in the canonical texts of the New Testament. In her exploration, she uncovers the richness and diversity of Christian philosophy that has only become available since the discovery of the Nag Hammadi texts.
    At the center of Beyond Belief is what Pagels identifies as a textual battle between The Gospel of Thomas (rediscovered in Egypt in 1945) and The Gospel of John. While these gospels have many superficial similarities, Pagels demonstrates that John, unlike Thomas, declares that Jesus is equivalent to "🤬 the Father". Thomas, in contrast, shares with other supposed secret teachings a belief that Jesus is not 🤬 but, rather, is a teacher who seeks to uncover the divine light in all human beings. Pagels then shows how the Gospel of John was used by Bishop Irenaeus of Lyon and others to define orthodoxy during the second and third centuries. The secret teachings were literally driven underground, disappearing until the Twentieth Century. As Pagels argues this process "not only impoverished the churches that remained but also impoverished those [Irenaeus] expelled."

    Beyond Belief offers a profound framework with which to examine Christian history and contemporary Christian faith, and Pagels renders her scholarship in a highly readable narrative. The one deficiency in Pagels’ examination of Thomas, if there is one, is that she never fully returns in the end to her own struggles with religion that so poignantly open the book. How has the mysticism of the Gnostic Gospels affected her? While she hints that she and others have found new pathways to faith through Thomas, the impact of Pagels’ work on contemporary Christianity may not be understood for years to come. --Patrick O’Kelley

    From Publishers Weekly
    In this majestic new book, Pagels (The Gnostic Gospels) ranges panoramically over the history of early Christianity, demonstrating the religion's initial tremendous diversity and its narrowing to include only certain texts supporting certain beliefs. At the center of her book is the conflict between the gospels of John and Thomas. Reading these gospels closely, she shows that Thomas offered readers a message of spiritual enlightenment. Rather than promoting Jesus as the only light of the world, Thomas taught individuals that "there is a light within each person, and it lights up the whole universe. If it does not shine, there is darkness." As she eloquently and provocatively argues, the author of John wrote his gospel as a refutation of Thomas, portraying the disciple Thomas as a fool when he doubts Jesus, and Jesus as the only true light of the world. Pagels goes on to demonstrate that the early Christian writer Irenaeus promoted John as the true gospel while he excluded Thomas, and a host of other early gospels, from the list of those texts that he considered authoritative. His list became the basis for the New Testament canon when it was fixed in 357. Pagels suggests that we recover Thomas as a way of embracing the glorious diversity of religious tradition. As she elegantly contends, religion is not merely an assent to a set of beliefs, but a rich, multifaceted fabric of teachings and experiences that connect us with the divine. Exhilarating reading, Pagels's book offers a model of careful and thoughtful scholarship in the lively and exciting prose of a good mystery writer.
    Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.
    See all Editorial Reviews
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    Sethian Gnosticism: A Study in Early Non-Orthodox Christianity


    One of the most well known and documented Gnostic sects is also one of the best understood. The Sethians believed themselves to be of the seed of Seth, or direct descendants, of the third son of Adam, the first man. They used the old and the new testaments as resources, as well as several Gnostic texts. These texts, of the Nag Hammadi library, include the Apocraphon of John, the Gospel of the Egyptians, the Hypostasis of the Archons, On the Origin of the World, the Three Steles of Seth, the Thunder; Perfect Mind, and the Zostrianos, among many more.


    Although the Sethians are considered Gnostic Christians, (of the first century C.E.) they were known to incorporate other religious theologies and philosophical ideologies as well. Besides the Gnostic and Judeo-Christian ideals, the Sethians incorporated Neo-Platonic philosophy and eastern oriental concepts as well. They believed, among other things, that they were an incorruptible race, who were not to be ruled over by a king, and that they were the holy chosen people of the savior. They thought of themselves as dwelling both in the material, physical world, and the immortal, spiritual realm simultaneously.



    So we can see how the Sethians are influence in by other pagan mythology^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that's why the Nag Hammadi have sophia a greek goddess in it
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    Sethian Gnosticism: A Study in Early Non-Orthodox Christianity


    The Sethian mythos is interesting indeed. Their differentiations from Orthodox Christians were many; however, we will discuss the most substantial ones here. First, the Sethian trinity; We all know of the Christian trinity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, the Sethians, however, saw things a little different.

    The Sethian Trinity consisted of the Father, or Invisible Spirit, who is above and beyond the concept of what we call 🤬 . He is ineffable and the source of all that is, and is completely perfect. Second and most interestingly, we come to the Mother, or Barbello. The Mother was created by the first thought of the Father, and He vested Her with the qualities of eternal life, foreknowledge, indestructibility, and truth. The Son is the product of a union between the Mother and the Father and is pure light; he is also the Anointed One, or the Christ. This is to say that Seth is the personification of the Son, and Jesus was one of the Seth-Savior incarnations. The Son is responsible for the salvation of the human race, as well as being the creator of the spirit realm.
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    Sethian Gnosticism: A Study in Early Non-Orthodox Christianity


    Things in the Sethian world view get much more interesting when one comes to their version of the creation of the universe (material) and the legend of Sophia (wisdom). The Sethians, as well as many other Gnostics, believed that the material world was created by a lesser 🤬 or Demiurge. This Demiurge was the product of Sophia who was a creation of the Trinity. She, as the story goes, decided she wanted to create without the knowledge, or permission, of the Trinity. The result was this Demiurge, known as Yaldabaoth, Saklas (the fool), or Samael (the blind), the former you may recognize from the Jewish scriptures. It is He who is the creator 🤬 and the vengeful and jealous 🤬 of the Old Testament and the Jews, known as YHWH.



    Now why and how do the greek goddess became included with the teachings, Now mind you that they are a sect of the hebrews, did the hellenist greek influece got a hold of them.

    Because in scriptures it was the serpent seed that tired to 🤬 the Hebrews and pollute the pure bloodline of Adam to thwart Yah's Plan, So Yah use his people as a Battle Ax against those people, so did these forces got a hold to these sect and tried to throw another stumbling bock. And talks about Yah in a negative way but they give praises to a greek godess.
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    edited December 2011
    waterproof wrote: »
    Sethian Gnosticism: A Study in Early Non-Orthodox Christianity


    One of the most well known and documented Gnostic sects is also one of the best understood. The Sethians believed themselves to be of the seed of Seth, or direct descendants, of the third son of Adam, the first man. They used the old and the new testaments as resources, as well as several Gnostic texts. These texts, of the Nag Hammadi library, include the Apocraphon of John, the Gospel of the Egyptians, the Hypostasis of the Archons, On the Origin of the World, the Three Steles of Seth, the Thunder; Perfect Mind, and the Zostrianos, among many more.


    Although the Sethians are considered Gnostic Christians, (of the first century C.E.) they were known to incorporate other religious theologies and philosophical ideologies as well. Besides the Gnostic and Judeo-Christian ideals, the Sethians incorporated Neo-Platonic philosophy and eastern oriental concepts as well. They believed, among other things, that they were an incorruptible race, who were not to be ruled over by a king, and that they were the holy chosen people of the savior. They thought of themselves as dwelling both in the material, physical world, and the immortal, spiritual realm simultaneously.



    So we can see how the Sethians are influence in by other pagan mythology^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that's why the Nag Hammadi have sophia a greek goddess in it

    I wouldn't use Wikipedia as a main source of research if I were you... You should know that the beast system will never expose anything that harms the status quo. The people in power today (Romans) are the same people that destroyed the ancient gnostic christians and their gospels.
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    Ignorant fool, you acting like you under pressure, go get some sleep. you in delusion right now, what you quote is not from wiki, did i tell you im going to use different articles on the subject. so people can see and get a clearer understanding

    now why you quote that article and say it's from wiki, when it's clearly not, fact check next time. Now that's the 2nd article that states that the sethians and the nag hammadi incorprated greek influence in them with greek goddess and platonic philosophy
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    edited December 2011
    waterproof wrote: »
    Ignorant fool, you acting like you under pressure, go get some sleep. you in delusion right now, what you quote is not from wiki, did i tell you im going to use different articles on the subject. so people can see and get a clearer understanding

    now why you quote that article and say it's from wiki, when it's clearly not, fact check next time.

    Clearly you are searching for biased sources of information to support your preconceived belief system on what you alone "think" to be truth. You already chose to denounce Gnostic scripture b4 you began to research it so any information you post will be baseless. But the fact remains is that gnosticism predates modern Christianity and was practiced by Ancient Hebrews & Egyptians.
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    Sethian Gnosticism: A Study in Early Non-Orthodox Christianity

    We see now that the Sethians have a very different interpretation of Jewish scripture. So, where does Jesus fit into all of this? Jesus is believed to one of the incarnations of the Son, sent here to awaken us to the True 🤬 , the Father, who is the all forgiving, all merciful, and all loving 🤬 of the new testament. This does seem to be in opposition to the vengeful and jealous 🤬 , who seemed intent on the fact that He was the only one true 🤬 in the Old Testament.


    Again these sect of hebrews, what influence them, why did they all of sudden change and was a shift and broke away from the Hebrews
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    edited December 2011
    waterproof wrote: »
    Sethian Gnosticism: A Study in Early Non-Orthodox Christianity

    We see now that the Sethians have a very different interpretation of Jewish scripture. So, where does Jesus fit into all of this? Jesus is believed to one of the incarnations of the Son, sent here to awaken us to the True 🤬 , the Father, who is the all forgiving, all merciful, and all loving 🤬 of the new testament. This does seem to be in opposition to the vengeful and jealous 🤬 , who seemed intent on the fact that He was the only one true 🤬 in the Old Testament.


    Again these sect of hebrews, what influence them, why did they all of sudden change and was a shift and broke away from the Hebrews

    According to the gnostic gospels the teachings of Yeshua gave them insight into the Christ within and knowledge of a Supreme 🤬 .
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    Not good enough again The Sethians had the Tanach just like all other Hebrews the ORIGINAL HEBREW SCRIPTURES, but they came with another scripture out of the blue. What cause them to have a different view, facts is that some type of hellenist doctrine crept in and influence them , i see they have the same thoughts of the Oasphe. was it spirits and a combination of the greek mythology.

    You have to know hebrew history to understand what types of horror the ancestors went through when they didnt accept the heathen religion, but some did accepted it and became hellenist which they mixed with hebrew scripture
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    To get a better understanding how Hebrews was treated and how some taked the heathen doctrine, you will better understand why some took the heathen doctrine mixed with their our tanach and the laws of our father, im going to post Apocrypha: 1 Macabees Chapter 1

    Apocrypha: 1 Macabees Chapter 1

    1 And it happened, after that Alexander son of Philip, the Macedonian, who came out of the land of Chettiim, had smitten Darius king of the Persians and Medes, that he reigned in his stead, the first over Greece,

    2 And made many wars, and won many strong holds, and slew the kings of the earth,

    3 And went through to the ends of the earth, and took spoils of many nations, insomuch that the earth was quiet before him; whereupon he was exalted and his heart was lifted up.

    4 And he gathered a mighty strong host and ruled over countries, and nations, and kings, who became tributaries unto him.

    5 And after these things he fell sick, and perceived that he should die.

    6 Wherefore he called his servants, such as were honourable, and had been brought up with him from his youth, and parted his kingdom among them, while he was yet alive.

    7 So Alexander reigned twelves years, and then died.

    8 And his servants bare rule every one in his place.

    9 And after his death they all put crowns upon themselves; so did their sons after them many years: and evils were multiplied in the earth.

    10 And there came out of them a wicked root Antiochus surnamed Epiphanes, son of Antiochus the king, who had been an hostage at Rome, and he reigned in the hundred and thirty and seventh year of the kingdom of the Greeks.

    11 In those days went there out of Israel wicked men, who persuaded many, saying, Let us go and make a covenant with the heathen that are round about us: for since we departed from them we have had much sorrow.

    12 So this device pleased them well.


    (You see how some wicked men of Israel who was in fear after Alexander the Great died went and make a covenant with the greeks, can this people the people who wrote the nag hammadi?? who mix paganism with our way of life?)


    13 Then certain of the people were so forward herein, that they went to the king, who gave them licence to do after the ordinances of the heathen:

    14 Whereupon they built a place of exercise at Jerusalem according to the customs of the heathen:

    15 And made themselves uncircumcised, and forsook the holy covenant, and joined themselves to the heathen, and were sold to do mischief.


    (The wicked men of Israel even build gymnasium's like the heathens)

    16 Now when the kingdom was established before Antiochus, he thought to reign over Egypt that he might have the dominion of two realms.

    17 Wherefore he entered into Egypt with a great multitude, with chariots, and elephants, and horsemen, and a great navy,

    18 And made war against Ptolemee king of Egypt: but Ptolemee was afraid of him, and fled; and many were wounded to death.

    19 Thus they got the strong cities in the land of Egypt and he took the spoils thereof.

    20 And after that Antiochus had smitten Egypt, he returned again in the hundred forty and third year, and went up against Israel and Jerusalem with a great multitude,

    21 And entered proudly into the sanctuary, and took away the golden altar, and the candlestick of light, and all the vessels thereof,

    22 And the table of the shewbread, and the pouring vessels, and the vials. and the censers of gold, and the veil, and the crown, and the golden ornaments that were before the temple, all which he pulled off.

    23 He took also the silver and the gold, and the precious vessels: also he took the hidden treasures which he found.

    24 And when he had taken all away, he went into his own land, having made a great massacre, and spoken very proudly.



    ^^^^Look how the heathens invade our home, robbed our holy places
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    Apocrypha: 1 Macabees Chapter 1

    25 Therefore there was a great mourning in Israel, in every place where they were;

    26 So that the princes and elders mourned, the virgins and young men were made feeble, and the beauty of women was changed.

    27 Every bridegroom took up lamentation, and she that sat in the marriage chamber was in heaviness,

    28 The land also was moved for the inhabitants thereof, and all the house of Jacob was covered with confusion.


    (Israel mourned for our home and holy place was robbed by the heathens)

    29 And after two years fully expired the king sent his chief collector of tribute unto the cities of Juda, who came unto Jerusalem with a great multitude,

    30 And spake peaceable words unto them, but all was deceit: for when they had given him credence, he fell suddenly upon the city, and smote it very sore, and destroyed much people of Israel.

    31 And when he had taken the spoils of the city, he set it on fire, and pulled down the houses and walls thereof on every side.

    32 But the women and children took they captive, and possessed the cattle.

    33 Then builded they the city of David with a great and strong wall, and with mighty towers, and made it a strong hold for them.


    (The Greek Heathens came back 2 years later and went on a blood thirsty rampage.)

    34 And they put therein a sinful nation, wicked men, and fortified themselves therein.

    35 They stored it also with armour and victuals, and when they had gathered together the spoils of Jerusalem, they laid them up there, and so they became a sore snare:

    36 For it was a place to lie in wait against the sanctuary, and an evil adversary to Israel.

    37 Thus they shed innocent blood on every side of the sanctuary, and defiled it:

    38 Insomuch that the inhabitants of Jerusalem fled because of them: whereupon the city was made an habitation of strangers, and became strange to those that were born in her; and her own children left her.

    39 Her sanctuary was laid waste like a wilderness, her feasts were turned into mourning, her sabbaths into reproach her honour into contempt.

    40 As had been her glory, so was her dishonour increased, and her excellency was turned into mourning.


    Jersualem was trodden down with the heathens it was no longer a holy place of Isarel
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2011
    Apocrypha: 1 Macabees Chapter 1

    41 Moreover king Antiochus wrote to his whole kingdom, that all should be one people,

    42 And every one should leave his laws: so all the heathen agreed according to the commandment of the king.

    43 Yea, many also of the Israelites consented to his religion, and sacrificed unto idols, and profaned the sabbath.


    (After all the deaths, robbery of our tabernacles and destruction of our homes and holy places, the rapes........the weak man and women of Isreal forgot about Yahuwahs and the Laws of Moses from Yahuwah and consented to the heathen doctrine)

    44 For the king had sent letters by messengers unto Jerusalem and the cities of Juda that they should follow the strange laws of the land,

    45 And forbid burnt offerings, and sacrifice, and drink offerings, in the temple; and that they should profane the sabbaths and festival days:

    46 And pollute the sanctuary and holy people:

    47 Set up altars, and groves, and chapels of idols, and sacrifice swine's flesh, and unclean beasts:

    48 That they should also leave their children uncircumcised, and make their souls abominable with all manner of uncleanness and profanation:

    49 To the end they might forget the law, and change all the ordinances.


    (Look at this wickedness and this abomination, these heathen tried and tell us to do these ungodly things, sacrificing swines flesh at our altars, making our children to be uncircumcised)

    50 And whosoever would not do according to the commandment of the king, he said, he should die.

    They threaten the ancestors with DEATH if we didnt do those abombinations
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