What's up everyone. We are doing a contest with T.I. and we are giving away $1200 a day for the next 10 days. Just wanted to give you all a heads up.
https://www.allhiphop.com/ti

Welfare programs did more damage than 🤬 in the hood

High Revolutionary
High Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 2012 in R & R (Religion and Race)
Welfare programs:

-Destabilized black nuclear families by creating 1 parent house hold stipulations
-Gave single mothers incentives for having more children
-Created a legacy of dependency in effect creating a permanent underclass



«1

Comments

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I disagree. Bad family values along with the prison industrial complex did the real damage. Most people who get on welfare eventually work, I've seen statistics on this.
  • Amotekun
    Amotekun Members Posts: 7,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I disagree. Bad family values along with the prison industrial complex did the real damage. Most people who get on welfare eventually work, I've seen statistics on this.

    I disagree with the bolded. There are many on who work, but still need welfare to bridge the cost of living gap/healthcare.



  • High Revolutionary
    High Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I disagree. Bad family values along with the prison industrial complex did the real damage. Most people who get on welfare eventually work, I've seen statistics on this.

    I'm curious to see these statistics. Also keep in mind that welfare is government sponsored and if you study history the government has rarely if ever done anything for the benefit of blacks.

  • TheBadOne
    TheBadOne Members Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    Women on welfare aren't having more children in order to get benefits. I don't know how old this info is.
    MYTH: Women on welfare have large families

    FACT: The typical welfare family is comprised of a mother and two children, slightly less than the size of the average family in the United States. Forty-two percent of AFDC families have only one child, 30 percent have two. AFDC families, like other families in the United States are getting smaller.

    http://bcn.boulder.co.us/pss/welfare.html
  • TheBadOne
    TheBadOne Members Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    Integration is what did a lot of black neighborhoods in. Instead of starting businesses and hiring black people in the neighborhood, educated and upper income blacks decided to move near white people and work for them as soon as they got the opportunity. Plus the war on drugs has made a lot of black men unemployable due to criminal records.
  • Wild Self
    Wild Self Members Posts: 4,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    🤬 🤬 . That sped up all the troubles black folk were having in the past 30 years.


  • High Revolutionary
    High Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2012
    TheBadOne wrote: »
    Women on welfare aren't having more children in order to get benefits. I don't know how old this info is.
    MYTH: Women on welfare have large families

    FACT: The typical welfare family is comprised of a mother and two children, slightly less than the size of the average family in the United States. Forty-two percent of AFDC families have only one child, 30 percent have two. AFDC families, like other families in the United States are getting smaller.

    http://bcn.boulder.co.us/pss/welfare.html

    That's an interesting article but it doesn't address the black community specifically which has its own set of unique problems, it addresses welfare recipents as a whole. The fact of the matter is the more children you have the more you can claim as dependents and the more government will pay you for them. The government has essentially subsidized children.

    And anyway the bigger problem is the destruction of the black nuclear family, which is a HUGE problem. In that second video I posted it said black illegitimacy went from 19% in 1940 to 72.5% in 2008. 72.5%?! That 🤬 cray. That is a lot of children being raised in unstable environments, then people wonder why brothas are out here getting clapped up for a pair of Jordans. And that's where the prison industrial complex
    which has been partially privatized to make millions off our incarceration. It's like a cycle.
    TheBadOne wrote: »
    Integration is what did a lot of black neighborhoods in. Instead of starting businesses and hiring black people in the neighborhood, educated and upper income blacks decided to move near white people and work for them as soon as they got the opportunity. Plus the war on drugs has made a lot of black men unemployable due to criminal records.

    This I will definately agree with. Claude Anderson dedicates many of his lectures to this subject:


    ***
    IMO what did the hood in was:

    -welfare/certain social programs
    -economic intergration
    -🤬 /war on drugs

    Honorable mentions:

    -Feminism

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheBadOne wrote: »
    Integration is what did a lot of black neighborhoods in. Instead of starting businesses and hiring black people in the neighborhood, educated and upper income blacks decided to move near white people and work for them as soon as they got the opportunity. Plus the war on drugs has made a lot of black men unemployable due to criminal records.

    Great post......you hit the nail on the head. Welfare has actually saved many lives, based on what I have seen. I have seen people from the hood go from welfare to owning their own crib and business. Without welfare, many people would be out in the streets homeless. Never been on it, but I have seen the benefits, although some do misuse it. Germany and other northern European nations have large safety nets, and guess what? Most families there are doing fine.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weren't Black families already destabilized prior to Welfare?

    Most single women didn't have more kids when they were on welfare, since the typical family was comprised of 1-2 children.

    I don't see how welfare created a legacy of dependency--if anything, a crumbling economy, less jobs because of outsourcing, and low wages have continually damaged the hood. Welfare is a need based program--not just regulated to Black and Latino folks. It is dependent on how good/bad the economy is, and a lack of alternatives.

    Another fantastic post fight here.....cut welfare and we will REALLY see things get bad in the hood. And everywhere else in America. Riots and chaos would occur out of nowhere, ESPECIALLY with the high cost of living these days.
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another white man talking point.......
  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    heyslick wrote: »
    waterproof wrote: »
    Another white man talking point.......


    NOPE! I can't figure out what black people are gonna do next....they've already rigged the election for Obama....NO ID's required if your poor and black....The AG can't keep track of anything and he can't be handle responsible for 🤬 ups - wtf Y should I ever consider this black man as my President - I may be dumb according to some but this white man ain't stupid & in my youth I could jump and a good dancer as well - I learned from the best...who else but....black people image that...me giving credit where it belongs.

    lol, we dont give a 🤬 ...change your style up
  • High Revolutionary
    High Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2012
    Weren't Black families already destabilized prior to Welfare?

    Most single women didn't have more kids when they were on welfare, since the typical family was comprised of 1-2 children.

    I don't see how welfare created a legacy of dependency--if anything, a crumbling economy, less jobs because of outsourcing, and low wages have continually damaged the hood. Welfare is a need based program--not just regulated to Black and Latino folks. It is dependent on how good/bad the economy is, and a lack of alternatives.




    No they weren't. Black marriage rates have been steadily decreasing since the 70's.

    And like I said it wasn't just welfare. Feminism, and 🤬 all contributed to the state of the hood today. And we could and once did create our own jobs if we would actually pool our resources in the community and stop looking for outside help. Remember black wall street?

    The less government intervention the better.


  • desertrain10
    desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    couldn't disagree more...

    slavery, jim crow, poverty, 🤬 , the war on drug, inept public school system, privatization of prisons, racial residential segregation... have all done more to damage the black community than welfare and feminism ever has...





  • waterproof
    waterproof Conqueror of Self On The Road to ZionMembers Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    heyslick wrote: »
    waterproof wrote: »
    heyslick wrote: »
    waterproof wrote: »
    Another white man talking point.......


    NOPE! I can't figure out what black people are gonna do next....they've already rigged the election for Obama....NO ID's required if your poor and black....The AG can't keep track of anything and he can't be handle responsible for 🤬 ups - wtf Y should I ever consider this black man as my President - I may be dumb according to some but this white man ain't stupid & in my youth I could jump and a good dancer as well - I learned from the best...who else but....black people image that...me giving credit where it belongs.

    lol, we dont give a 🤬 ...change your style up


    I don't really care about you --- all you ever do is malign white people constantly or blame them for ALL of black peoples problems....and the final straw for me is poor black people don't need to show any form of ID to vote...thanks alot you sorry racist black AG...& 🤬 THE RACIST MEMBERS OF the CDC as well -

    your father is the father of lies, tell me how i malign white people constantly, show your proof
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weren't Black families already destabilized prior to Welfare?

    Most single women didn't have more kids when they were on welfare, since the typical family was comprised of 1-2 children.

    I don't see how welfare created a legacy of dependency--if anything, a crumbling economy, less jobs because of outsourcing, and low wages have continually damaged the hood. Welfare is a need based program--not just regulated to Black and Latino folks. It is dependent on how good/bad the economy is, and a lack of alternatives.




    No they weren't. Black marriage rates have been steadily decreasing since the 70's.

    And like I said it wasn't just welfare. Feminism, and 🤬 all contributed to the state of the hood today. And we could and once did create our own jobs if we would actually pool our resources in the community and stop looking for outside help. Remember black wall street?

    The less government intervention the better.


    LOL HAHA WOW that 🤬 got some nerve. To be real there are SOME people who misuse the system, we ALL agree on that. But did you even reda the stats someone put up before? Most people on welfare have
    Weren't Black families already destabilized prior to Welfare?

    Most single women didn't have more kids when they were on welfare, since the typical family was comprised of 1-2 children.

    I don't see how welfare created a legacy of dependency--if anything, a crumbling economy, less jobs because of outsourcing, and low wages have continually damaged the hood. Welfare is a need based program--not just regulated to Black and Latino folks. It is dependent on how good/bad the economy is, and a lack of alternatives.




    No they weren't. Black marriage rates have been steadily decreasing since the 70's.

    And like I said it wasn't just welfare. Feminism, and 🤬 all contributed to the state of the hood today. And we could and once did create our own jobs if we would actually pool our resources in the community and stop looking for outside help. Remember black wall street?

    The less government intervention the better.


    LOL wow that 🤬 has some nerve ROFL.....of course SOME people misuse the system, we ALL agree on that. But did you even read the link someone put up above? Most people on welfare have only two kids.
  • desertrain10
    desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2012
    heyslick wrote: »
    couldn't disagree more...

    slavery, jim crow, poverty, 🤬 , the war on drug, inept public school system, privatization of prisons, racial residential segregation... have all done more to damage the black community than welfare and feminism ever has...


    To be honest the lady in this video above is the real culprit - what kind of woman has so many babies I'm not talking 7 or 8 but ONE DOZEN CHILDREN - HOTDAMN - this kind of mentality just cannot go on in this society before it just collaspes from its own stupidity! The poor kids in this story are the real victims - another generation lost and confused & some just ignore the root of the problem....many poor black communities family struture doesn't exist.

    quit it

    single black women having 10,12 kids for the sole purpose of collecting a check from the government is not the norm and most people don't stay on welfare for long bruh... stories like that are just racist propaganda used by conservatives to get welfare reform...( which they did get when back in the 90s and cut millions of families off of welfare...and now they want to gut are social programs even more smh)

    and no one is 'dependent' on welfare. welfare is a reaction to poverty, lack of jobs, low wages etc.... not an action...and welfare does not destroy the (black) family unit (or any other family unit for that matter)...
    just ask the millions it helped to propel out of poverty


    @t/s and even naming feminism as one the main contributors to the destruction of the black community is naive and kind of ignorant ...especially considering the fact that back when the great majority of black families were traditional two-parent families that couldn't even prevent the devastating effects of white supremacy and capitalist exploitation and oppression....black wall street was the exception not the norm

    first of all we need to address and reform drug laws that disproportionately affect the black community, its killing us literally and figuratively. and welfare recipients and prison population spiked among the black community when the war on drugs began ...than we need to address our failing public school system and racist housing practices before anything else

  • Inglewood_B
    Inglewood_B Woodz of Inglez Members Posts: 12,246 ✭✭✭✭✭
    heyslick wrote: »
    Weren't Black families already destabilized prior to Welfare?

    Most single women didn't have more kids when they were on welfare, since the typical family was comprised of 1-2 children.

    I don't see how welfare created a legacy of dependency--if anything, a crumbling economy, less jobs because of outsourcing, and low wages have continually damaged the hood. Welfare is a need based program--not just regulated to Black and Latino folks. It is dependent on how good/bad the economy is, and a lack of alternatives.

    Another fantastic post fight here.....cut welfare and we will REALLY see things get bad in the hood. And everywhere else in America. Riots and chaos would occur out of nowhere, ESPECIALLY with the high cost of living these days.


    You ain't see nothing - wait and see what happens when they start cutting/reducing SS benefits...especially for those who paid into the system. Yeah we got some real problems when old people gotta fight to get what they worked for....or some damn crooked ass Politician tells them to be fair and spread the wealth around - as the various[i/] dead beats of society stand in the background hollering 'bout these 🤬 owe me!



    the majority of people on welfare are white middle americans. fact.

  • High Revolutionary
    High Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2012
    couldn't disagree more...

    @t/s and even naming feminism as one the main contributors to the destruction of the black community is naive and kind of ignorant ...especially considering the fact that back when the great majority of black families were traditional two-parent families that couldn't even prevent the devastating effects of white supremacy and capitalist exploitation and oppression....black wall street was the exception not the norm

    first of all we need to address and reform drug laws that disproportionately affect the black community, its killing us literally and figuratively. and welfare recipients and prison population spiked among the black community when the war on drugs began ...than we need to address our failing public school system and racist housing practices before anything else

    Did you watch any of the videos I posted? The first video is a former welfare recipient speaking from experience.

    Even during the post-slavery, and Jim Crow period the black family unit still remained intact. Drugs in the community and inferior school facilities is not a new issue.

    Saying we need to reform drug laws and address the failing public school system is skirting the issue. Those are points talking heads like Jesse Jackson spout year after year. What we need to do is repair the black family unit, because by doing that all the other issues become far less severe.

    Saying black people need welfare to survive is selling us short. We didn't make it this far because of welfare. If black people are good at anything it's surviving.
  • desertrain10
    desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    heyslick wrote:
    heyslick wrote: »
    couldn't disagree more...

    slavery, jim crow, poverty, 🤬 , the war on drug, inept public school system, privatization of prisons, racial residential segregation... have all done more to damage the black community than welfare and feminism ever has...


    To be honest the lady in this video above is the real culprit - what kind of woman has so many babies I'm not talking 7 or 8 but ONE DOZEN CHILDREN - HOTDAMN - this kind of mentality just cannot go on in this society before it just collaspes from its own stupidity! The poor kids in this story are the real victims - another generation lost and confused & some just ignore the root of the problem....many poor black communities family struture doesn't exist.

    quit it

    single black women having 10,12 kids for the sole purpose of collecting a check from the government is not the norm and most people don't stay on welfare for long bruh... stories like that are just racist propaganda used by conservatives to get welfare reform...( which they did get when back in the 90s and cut millions of families off of welfare...and now they want to gut are social programs even more smh)

    and no one is 'dependent' on welfare. welfare is a reaction to poverty, lack of jobs, low wages etc.... not an action...and welfare does not destroy the (black) family unit (or any other family unit for that matter)...
    just ask the millions it helped to propel out of poverty


    @t/s and even naming feminism as one the main contributors to the destruction of the black community is naive and kind of ignorant ...especially considering the fact that back when the great majority of black families were traditional two-parent families that couldn't even prevent the devastating effects of white supremacy and capitalist exploitation and oppression....black wall street was the exception not the norm

    first of all we need to address and reform drug laws that disproportionately affect the black community, its killing us literally and figuratively. and welfare recipients and prison population spiked among the black community when the war on drugs began ...than we need to address our failing public school system and racist housing practices before anything else


    It's never gonna stop is it - so many of the major problems within these poor black communities has been hashed over and over for years and years. Bill Cosby carries about his people and he's genuine in his messages.however he gets some much grief when he talks about: that 🤬 laundry & it only gets worse.....WTF is it with change? black people always be talking about it but,this kind of situation needs to change in the poor black communities & again just look at this lady and tell me who's not listening & Y can't the So -called leaders in these various communities start changing and addressing this issue once and for all -- this country cannot prosper/compete with that kind of populous......communities are dying just because they refuse to address the bottom line.

    its never gonna stop if people like cosby and the country doesn't address the problems the system poses to the progress of blacks and the impoverished...

    you can't simply tell a person that was forced to go a 🤬 school by law because his parents were poor; who also grew up in a violent, drug infested ( thanks to the CIA) community ran by gangs imo because of bad drug policies that he should just shut up, do your best and stop asking for reform from the very people who pledged to serve the nation... nothing will ever change than...

    and its ignorant to make light of these obstacles
  • The Prodigalson
    The Prodigalson Members, Writer Posts: 8,715 ✭✭✭✭✭
    heyslick wrote: »
    heyslick wrote:
    heyslick wrote: »
    couldn't disagree more...

    slavery, jim crow, poverty, 🤬 , the war on drug, inept public school system, privatization of prisons, racial residential segregation... have all done more to damage the black community than welfare and feminism ever has...


    To be honest the lady in this video above is the real culprit - what kind of woman has so many babies I'm not talking 7 or 8 but ONE DOZEN CHILDREN - HOTDAMN - this kind of mentality just cannot go on in this society before it just collaspes from its own stupidity! The poor kids in this story are the real victims - another generation lost and confused & some just ignore the root of the problem....many poor black communities family struture doesn't exist.

    quit it

    single black women having 10,12 kids for the sole purpose of collecting a check from the government is not the norm and most people don't stay on welfare for long bruh... stories like that are just racist propaganda used by conservatives to get welfare reform...( which they did get when back in the 90s and cut millions of families off of welfare...and now they want to gut are social programs even more smh)

    and no one is 'dependent' on welfare. welfare is a reaction to poverty, lack of jobs, low wages etc.... not an action...and welfare does not destroy the (black) family unit (or any other family unit for that matter)...
    just ask the millions it helped to propel out of poverty


    @t/s and even naming feminism as one the main contributors to the destruction of the black community is naive and kind of ignorant ...especially considering the fact that back when the great majority of black families were traditional two-parent families that couldn't even prevent the devastating effects of white supremacy and capitalist exploitation and oppression....black wall street was the exception not the norm

    first of all we need to address and reform drug laws that disproportionately affect the black community, its killing us literally and figuratively. and welfare recipients and prison population spiked among the black community when the war on drugs began ...than we need to address our failing public school system and racist housing practices before anything else


    It's never gonna stop is it - so many of the major problems within these poor black communities has been hashed over and over for years and years. Bill Cosby carries about his people and he's genuine in his messages.however he gets some much grief when he talks about: that 🤬 laundry & it only gets worse.....WTF is it with change? black people always be talking about it but,this kind of situation needs to change in the poor black communities & again just look at this lady and tell me who's not listening & Y can't the So -called leaders in these various communities start changing and addressing this issue once and for all -- this country cannot prosper/compete with that kind of populous......communities are dying just because they refuse to address the bottom line.

    its never gonna stop if people like cosby and the country doesn't address the problems the system poses to the progress of blacks and the impoverished...

    you can't simply tell a person that was forced to go a 🤬 school by law because his parents were poor; who also grew up in a violent, drug infested ( thanks to the CIA) community ran by gangs imo because of bad drug policies that he should just shut up, do your best and stop asking for reform from the very people who pledged to serve the nation... nothing will ever change than...

    and its ignorant to make light of these obstacles


    I'm not trying to make light of anything - I just get tired of seeing so many issues distorted and the real solutions to the problem (s) never get addressed. I'm really a fair person and compassionate about many things....but ignorance and continuing to do the same things over and over and over.... it just makes one wonder about....what some peoples real agenda is about. Now I do a lot of searching on the net to find info and to understand - here's someone perspective on this very subject - so many on this site will call the man a 🤬 - wtf? the truth is the truth Y not just face-it head on take care of the damn problem.

    I just pasted these from a government site:

    With regard to AFDC the figures are:

    White 38.8%
    Black 39.8
    Hispanic 15.7
    Asian 2.4
    other 3.3

    To break down these numbers, we look at how many Whites are in the population as a WHOLE. If Blacks make up less 14% of the population and are almost 40% of all receipients, then they represent about 2.5 times their actual population. Since Whites are over 50% of the total US pop., they represent less than their overall piece of the pie, population-wise. Hispanics are at least 15% of the general population, so they take only about as much as what their population represents. Why am I writing this? Because I am tired of the misrepresentations on this issue. I read so many on here claiming that more Whites are on welfare than Blacks (true, in terms of raw numbers), yet not accounting for the fact that there are over 4X as many Whites in this country than Blacks! In statistics, you cannot go by mere numbers. Only if the playing field is exactly equal, which is rarely is! This thread was started, not to be racist, but to keep it real. After all, there are some legitimate reasons for Blacks to be on welfare more than Whites. But the worst thing anyone can do is be in denial.

    Great spin job on the statistics. Funny how you say you're not a racist but point to all negative stats towards black. In the thread about to two white 🤬 rant what you do? Posted up a video of the NBPP which membership is no more than 20. I've seen your type and posting style on another forum. Just go ahead and admit you want a society that preserve your culture.
  • desertrain10
    desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    heyslick wrote: »
    its never gonna stop if people like cosby and the country doesn't address the problems the system poses to the progress of blacks and the impoverished...


    HOTDAMN- man if it ain't one thing its another - how many damn excuses are you gonna find? - I swear this new generation of black Americans are there own worst enemy when it comes to addressing this hot issue. The system is 🤬 -up and now some people live off of that premise and many will never get up - I said get up - SO DON'T TWIST my words. FYI in those troubled communities who destroys school property? and makes it a terrible environment for those who truly want to learn - who birthed them children and abandoned them? - to be raised by gangs and such - so now what's the excuse for not addressing that issue.

    well you know how they say we are products of our environment... well the system makes for an environment that perpetuates crime, drug use, teen parents, so called welfare "dependency" amongst its weakest and poor ....problems that plague poor communities around the world really

    not making excuses just keeping it real bruh... blacks we do have to start looking in the mirror but we also need to demand more from our government
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    heyslick wrote: »
    heyslick wrote: »
    Weren't Black families already destabilized prior to Welfare?

    Most single women didn't have more kids when they were on welfare, since the typical family was comprised of 1-2 children.

    I don't see how welfare created a legacy of dependency--if anything, a crumbling economy, less jobs because of outsourcing, and low wages have continually damaged the hood. Welfare is a need based program--not just regulated to Black and Latino folks. It is dependent on how good/bad the economy is, and a lack of alternatives.

    Another fantastic post fight here.....cut welfare and we will REALLY see things get bad in the hood. And everywhere else in America. Riots and chaos would occur out of nowhere, ESPECIALLY with the high cost of living these days.


    You ain't see nothing - wait and see what happens when they start cutting/reducing SS benefits...especially for those who paid into the system. Yeah we got some real problems when old people gotta fight to get what they worked for....or some damn crooked ass Politician tells them to be fair and spread the wealth around - as the various[i/] dead beats of society stand in the background hollering 'bout these 🤬 owe me!



    the majority of people on welfare are white middle americans. fact.

    That isn't factually true - let's break it down per capita & stop lumping all the different races that claim to be white as white...those results are skewed - when U separate the races the percentages are very high - they are what they are - I feel for them poor little children....what kind of future will they have? this woman is a damn 🤬 and she uses them poor children as pawns...she surrounds herself with those pathetic looking little babies & the liberals eat it up - note: did any black people feel pity for the children and offer up housing for this woman.....NO. I betcha somewhere/how this woman will suddenly appear in a political commercial about how the Republicans are trying 2 🤬 /starve little black babies.

    You're in denial now, MOST people on welfare are WHITE. PERIOD. If you REALLY want to make this a race issue, address why so many white people are on welfare out there.
  • High Revolutionary
    High Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2012
    Smh at my thread getting moved to the Bermuda Triangle of the IC known as Religion & Race.

    Anyway there's an old quote:

    "Give a man fish he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

    Welfare is like giving a man fish.
  • High Revolutionary
    High Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still think this is true in my estimation.
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Still think this is true in my estimation.
    but MAYBE we could bump it by adding a little more than a self co-sign?