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Whether 🤬 Exist Or Not....

alissowack
alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
This argument may have been started before so I will take the risk of repeating it. Let's just say science does somehow come along and provide solid irrefutable evidence for the non-existence of 🤬 . For many religious people, they would have consider the weight of this discovery. It's one thing to be wrong about the existence of 🤬 and there was no sense of commitment to the idea. They could just brush it off; shake the hand of the white trench coat geniuses and find something else more tangible. But the religious would have a dilemma. They have devoted themselves to the idea so it is no longer about it being right or wrong. It's about trust and betrayal. It's about giving themselves in every way only to find out it was a lost cause. It's already devastating enough to be lied to commonly among people, but to have sacred books, that suppose to be eternal, filled with promises stripped of its integrity that would leave them to hopelessly deal with their mortality. They face death now knowing they will not enjoy the happiness they hoped to have gained and not be able laugh in the faces of those who wouldn't make it...because nothing would be there. The extreme acts of violence by fanatics would now be null and void and must face that maybe...they have to own up to the tragedies cause by their hands instead of using "🤬 " as an excuse for bad things they wanted to do anyway.

For everybody else, there is a sense of relief and joy in themselves...and maybe a desire to taunt the religious who for so many years have done things to make them feel guilty about not choosing to surrender their lives to the onion skin-thin pages of religious books. They can finally say that religious people are wrong. However, I believe there is also a dilemma as well for everybody else. There is the sense that because it is found to be that 🤬 doesn't exist, then they really don't have to commit to that fact. They think they could just brush it off as well. They would have the consider the weight of something like this as well. Now, instead of a being in the sky being looked to as an ultimate authority, they must now look to themselves as such. There is a commitment they must have to the idea that they ultimately determine how things were, are and will be. Sure, there is a sense where they understand their limits and know what is right and wrong, but now they must show that do honor and respect those limits and those morals. It sounds promising, but the problem is that among mankind are specific people who don't honor or respect limits; they know what's right and wrong but chooses to do wrong anyway. They may not be hardened criminals who deserve jail sentences, but they know that there is one thing that somebody can't do...and that is question their perceptions on what was, is and will be...because they are convinced in their own right they are an authority. They may not say they are the boss over others, but they will say they are doing what is best for them...even if what they are doing goes against what others may say is wrong. They may say, "It is true to me". However, the real intentions of saying it is not to get people to question what the truth is, but to not get people to question who they are. Telling a lie may be wrong but it would never be disputed by others for they don't want to be accused of trying to dictate another person's life. They just hope somewhere down the line they see differently.

My hope is that maybe people will see that there is a problem whether 🤬 exists or not. We want control over who we are and it is natural to want this. However, this desire could be at the expense of using any means necessary. And the things is this...what position are we really in to question what the religious do or the irreligious do especially if we don't allow for something to represent an authority over the two?

Comments

  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 On the shoulders of Giants and Elders in history UniverseMembers Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If that were to happen, than it defninitely wouldn't happen in our lifetime and also, we don't even know everything about our planet, second we know little to nothing in space, we know little to what dark matter, dark energy, anti-matter, gravity, time, the dimensions, hyper space, etc. We don't know what our own galaxy looks like for and the possibbilities of different universes and different timelines.

    Most people think that religion is the cancer for humanity, the cancer of humanity is ego, pride, one's self own exaltment, fear, anger, etc what religions teaches those are the cancers of society, yet we overlook it. In my own personal opinion humans often say logic is the key, but logical fallacies reside and the cancer continues because we depend on logic more and more and science more and more that we tend to forget the basic elements of morality, that we would end up destroying ourselves.

    Men are the 🤬 of religion and we forget that and people fight because they want to be right and prove they are right through ego and pride. When religion says against violence, they continue to use to inflict on people. Christians aren't suppose to ever fight, committ wars, etc but they have due to ego and pride and especially at the top. Muslims can only defend themselves and not 🤬 people because they don't believe in what they don't believe in.
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think when it comes down to it, whether religious or not, we are human and humans are naturally social. Whether you believe that our minds were created or evolved, we have them, we're stuck with them, and as long as we are able to use them to think, it is only logical that as a human being, I treat others justly and honestly. Preservation of ourselves individually means preservation of ourselves collectively and that boils down to humanism and the "golden rule".
  • atlnever
    atlnever Members Posts: 102 ✭✭
    Proof that 🤬 is real






    Quote by GateMessenger
    "Those who deny the experimental results are denying scientific evidence. Why would my colleagues claim the universe is one consciousness if it were not discovered?"


    Dr. Amit Goswami on the universal consciousness called 🤬 .

    See the Unified Field theory and Universal Consciousness. The discovery of the 5th Generation computer by Vogelsang in 1982 was evidence to this single intelligent all knowing consciousness. The universe is alive, self aware. All things are a portion of this consciousness which gives life to the universe. The Great Omniscient Designer(🤬 ). Designer because this consciousness is self aware.


    Observer Effect: Consciousness effects outcome of random number experiments, Princeton University


    John Hagelin, Ph.D quotes
    1: "Modern quantum physics, Molecular Biology's Neuroimmunology, they both say that we do create our own realities"

    2: "The consciousness is not created by the brain. It's not purely the outcome of molecular, chemical processes in the brain but is fundamental in nature. It's the very core of nature called the Unified Field or Superstring theory."

    3: "The Unified Field is a non material field filled with consciousness."

    4: "It is a single field of intelligence."

    5: "There is only one consciousness in this room."

    6: "The universe is conscious at it's basis."

    7: "A concentrated field of intelligence in nature, non material, dynamic, SELF AWARE intelligence. Those are the properties of the unified field."

    Click more info for links that lead to scientific data which shows evidence that 🤬 does Exist.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/22/science/far-apart-2-particles-respond-faste...
    http://www.cebaf.gov/news/internet/1997/spooky.html
    Signal Travels Farther and Faster Than Light
    By Malcolm W. Browne, July 22, 1997

    http://ktsorg.wordpress.com/
    Roger G. Vogelsang's Journal


    Complexity of life in Intelligent Design

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32698085/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/most-d...
    Tomotsugu finds galaxy 12.8 billion light years away:

    11/02/2009
    An email letter response I received from physicist Fred Alan Wolf Ph.D.

    "First of all the "force" is not a real force--it doesn't push or pull on anything. It is a correlation--a meaningful connection between the particles that are entangled in the sense that an observation of one the partners causes the other partner to take on a value that before the observation occurred was not determined. It's unlike anything we ordinarily see in the everyday world. According to quantum physics the two partner are entangled after they interact, however the actual value of any particular attribute remains unobserved and indeterminate. Even though the two partners are no longer in interaction with each other, observation of one the partners instantly changes the other partner. For more read my books Taking the Quantum Leap, Parallel Universes, and Mind into Matter.
    It is not any more evidence of 🤬 than any other fact of life is.
    They all are evidence of 🤬 ."

    As you can see, there is evidence that 🤬 does indeed exist.

    Newtonian law, if you don't apply a force it doesn't move.

    Quote by Roger G. Vogelsang
    `We can thank 🤬 for the coming mental paradigm shift, even the bloodshed it brings to get things restarted correctly with a Self thinking interfacing device directly to 🤬 !'
    Research Fifth generation computer with artificial intelligence. It was discovered by Vogelsang in the early 80's and he called the device a Self Thinking Interface or STI device.

    Vogelsang claimed this action to be the self aware consciousness of 🤬 . Other physicists chickened out & called it a universal consciousness.

    Please, make this video a favorite so you can use it for quick reference.

    The universe becomes eternal because energy can be created yet cannot be destroyed. See my gravity video.

    Thanks for viewing my Description.

    Please Note: Any rude, insulting, racist or other offensive comments will be removed and you will receive a permanent comment ban here. No warnings!

    Try to stay on the topic of the evidence discovered not on popular beliefs or religion.

    The 🤬 mentioned in this video is not a physical being. 🤬 is a universal consciousness discovered in experiments and is believed to be the mind behind all matter.


    I
  • bambu
    bambu *Earth & Water* Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think when it comes down to it, whether religious or not, we are human and humans are naturally social. Whether you believe that our minds were created or evolved, we have them, we're stuck with them, and as long as we are able to use them to think, it is only logical that as a human being, I treat others justly and honestly. Preservation of ourselves individually means preservation of ourselves collectively and that boils down to humanism and the "golden rule".

    The golden rule = he who has the gold makes the rules
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2012
    bambu wrote: »
    I think when it comes down to it, whether religious or not, we are human and humans are naturally social. Whether you believe that our minds were created or evolved, we have them, we're stuck with them, and as long as we are able to use them to think, it is only logical that as a human being, I treat others justly and honestly. Preservation of ourselves individually means preservation of ourselves collectively and that boils down to humanism and the "golden rule".

    The golden rule = he who has the gold makes the rules

    Haha.. true. Or rather than "golden rule", we can say "the ethics of reciprocity".
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    @atlnever. I hope I didn't mislead you with this post. I wasn't trying to suggest that I look forward to someone proving the non-existence of 🤬 . It was only to suggest that there is more to the issue than just showing that there is (or isn't) proof. It's one thing to have proof for anything and another to have a respect for it.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    I think when it comes down to it, whether religious or not, we are human and humans are naturally social. Whether you believe that our minds were created or evolved, we have them, we're stuck with them, and as long as we are able to use them to think, it is only logical that as a human being, I treat others justly and honestly. Preservation of ourselves individually means preservation of ourselves collectively and that boils down to humanism and the "golden rule".

    Yes, we are human and there are things that make up who we are that we are "stuck" with. But, does that mean that we respect it? It would be nice to think that the golden rule naturally flows through the consciousness such that we can't help but follow it. But, the golden rule doesn't present itself as an authority. People can choose not to follow it.
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We don't have to respect it but it's a fact that we think by way of our brains. It's not something you can avoid unless you choose to end your own consiousness. Now, from there, it depends on a persons attitude and outlook as to whether they would logically take to the ethics of reciprocity but the ethics are a product of human reason. You don't have to follow it but not everybody likes to follow what is reasonable. Maybe the only thing we are forced to follow are the laws of nature.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    @westbrooklyn. If there is no respect for the golden rule, then why follow it? Why would someone waste their time when they are facing people who don't "listen to reason"?
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ultimately there is respect for it; the mutual respect is where society, community, and laws come into play. If you're not willing to obey the mutual agreements of the community, you could face imprisonment, expulsion or death.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    @westbrooklyn. Some people are willing to face imprisonment, expulsion or death. What about those people who do bad things to others and to avoid "justice", kills themselves? Sure, it may just means blood is only on their hands but it shows that they have no respect for the golden rule especially if they won't allow for justice to determine their fate. Justice doesn't have any authority over what people should or shouldn't do.
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2012
    Some people are willing to face the consequences but generally, thinking people want to avoid the consequences and there are still consequences; we are forced to follow certain rules in society but we are not FORCED in every aspect, until a consequence is something like imprisonment, where you are forced to refrain from unfavorable acts such as murder or theft. You are not forced to refrain from running into a police station and open fire but there are consequences, like death, so in a way, you are forced not to do it if you value your life.
    "Justice" is a concept created by the human mind for human society and civilization. Without these things, there exists no "justice".
    But at the end of the day, religious or not, we as humans generally follow the ethics of reciprocity.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    @westbrooklyn. Well, there are people who break the rules and avoid the consequences. What about the people who have done these bad things and yet never been caught?
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    there are exceptions to every rule
  • melanated khemist
    melanated khemist Members Posts: 608 ✭✭✭
    atlnever wrote: »
    Proof that 🤬 is real






    Quote by GateMessenger
    "Those who deny the experimental results are denying scientific evidence. Why would my colleagues claim the universe is one consciousness if it were not discovered?"


    Dr. Amit Goswami on the universal consciousness called 🤬 .

    See the Unified Field theory and Universal Consciousness. The discovery of the 5th Generation computer by Vogelsang in 1982 was evidence to this single intelligent all knowing consciousness. The universe is alive, self aware. All things are a portion of this consciousness which gives life to the universe. The Great Omniscient Designer(🤬 ). Designer because this consciousness is self aware.


    Observer Effect: Consciousness effects outcome of random number experiments, Princeton University


    John Hagelin, Ph.D quotes
    1: "Modern quantum physics, Molecular Biology's Neuroimmunology, they both say that we do create our own realities"

    2: "The consciousness is not created by the brain. It's not purely the outcome of molecular, chemical processes in the brain but is fundamental in nature. It's the very core of nature called the Unified Field or Superstring theory."

    3: "The Unified Field is a non material field filled with consciousness."

    4: "It is a single field of intelligence."

    5: "There is only one consciousness in this room."

    6: "The universe is conscious at it's basis."

    7: "A concentrated field of intelligence in nature, non material, dynamic, SELF AWARE intelligence. Those are the properties of the unified field."

    Click more info for links that lead to scientific data which shows evidence that 🤬 does Exist.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/22/science/far-apart-2-particles-respond-faste...
    http://www.cebaf.gov/news/internet/1997/spooky.html
    Signal Travels Farther and Faster Than Light
    By Malcolm W. Browne, July 22, 1997

    http://ktsorg.wordpress.com/
    Roger G. Vogelsang's Journal


    Complexity of life in Intelligent Design

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32698085/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/most-d...
    Tomotsugu finds galaxy 12.8 billion light years away:

    11/02/2009
    An email letter response I received from physicist Fred Alan Wolf Ph.D.

    "First of all the "force" is not a real force--it doesn't push or pull on anything. It is a correlation--a meaningful connection between the particles that are entangled in the sense that an observation of one the partners causes the other partner to take on a value that before the observation occurred was not determined. It's unlike anything we ordinarily see in the everyday world. According to quantum physics the two partner are entangled after they interact, however the actual value of any particular attribute remains unobserved and indeterminate. Even though the two partners are no longer in interaction with each other, observation of one the partners instantly changes the other partner. For more read my books Taking the Quantum Leap, Parallel Universes, and Mind into Matter.
    It is not any more evidence of 🤬 than any other fact of life is.
    They all are evidence of 🤬 ."

    As you can see, there is evidence that 🤬 does indeed exist.

    Newtonian law, if you don't apply a force it doesn't move.

    Quote by Roger G. Vogelsang
    `We can thank 🤬 for the coming mental paradigm shift, even the bloodshed it brings to get things restarted correctly with a Self thinking interfacing device directly to 🤬 !'
    Research Fifth generation computer with artificial intelligence. It was discovered by Vogelsang in the early 80's and he called the device a Self Thinking Interface or STI device.

    Vogelsang claimed this action to be the self aware consciousness of 🤬 . Other physicists chickened out & called it a universal consciousness.

    Please, make this video a favorite so you can use it for quick reference.

    The universe becomes eternal because energy can be created yet cannot be destroyed. See my gravity video.

    Thanks for viewing my Description.

    Please Note: Any rude, insulting, racist or other offensive comments will be removed and you will receive a permanent comment ban here. No warnings!

    Try to stay on the topic of the evidence discovered not on popular beliefs or religion.

    The 🤬 mentioned in this video is not a physical being. 🤬 is a universal consciousness discovered in experiments and is believed to be the mind behind all matter.


    I

    mosdef not proof, but great drop

  • GSonII
    GSonII Members Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2012
    Rather 🤬 exists or not is a question that is not even profound at this point. It really makes no sense to continue to think about it. There is no way to prove or disprove this. What we can do is find cures to the things that ill us or simply quit creating lives if we can't. It is somewhat irresponsible to continue to create life if we can not find cures to cancer, 🤬 , and make our world safer to live in.

    The question the human race is really faced with is how strong are your morals and values and simply how strong is your brain or spirit when you continue to create unnecessarily when you can not even take care of what you have previously created.

    My conclusion is as humans we are totally focused on self preservation over anything else that is why some people continue on with this all-knowing 🤬 that loves us all and will save us or punish us as the ultimate decider. We are not that important nor are we that intelligent. Contrary to what most think, I think when you realize that we are very insignificant and too ignorant to solve real problems this is what can lead me to think we have a superior some where, but I doubt that the superior really gives a 🤬 about us, we are just tools. So 🤬 rather that superior exists or not. Quit thinking about that 🤬 .
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2012
    @gsonII. The post was not meant to ask a question, but to state a condition. Whether we think or don't think about 🤬 , we are still left to deal with the issues of life. I have at least tried to see both sides of things. If the religious suddenly find that 🤬 doesn't exist, then they, along with a lot of other things, must answer for the their moral actions especially if they used 🤬 as an excuse to do bad things. But on the flip side, those who "don't think about 🤬 " have to deal with the reality that no one (other than the self) is in a position to govern moral actions.

    You may bring up established government entities but they are ultimately ran by individuals, who are in positions of authority, that don't have to be told by anybody else about how to conduct themselves. If they want to make exceptions to the rules, then the only hope is that the rules themselves somehow carries weight, or a respect, in which they can't avoid or dismiss. But nowadays (and way before then) you can commit immoral acts and either someone gets away with it or it is made acceptable whether formally or informally (apart or with religion).

    Maybe, your hope is that one day mankind will be able during the trials of life to make good moral choices a very high percentage of the time. I doubt it.
  • blacktux
    blacktux Members Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There will never be factual proof that "🤬 " exists in the sense that humans believe

    But 🤬 does exist in a perceptive sense. As perception is reality and people will do great/sinister things in the name of the 🤬 in which they believe.
  • thedesolateone
    thedesolateone Members Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2012
    fgsb dhdgn mdg m
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