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The Official Floyd Mayweather is the best boxer of this era period...

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Comments

  • almighty breeze
    almighty breeze Members Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2012
    PimpMVP wrote: »
    He didn't fight a bigger taller undefeated top 5 p4p at the time Corrales at his peak?

    He didn't beat Castillo twice at his peak?

    He didn't destroy Gatti?

    Beat a bigger De la Hola?

    He didn't beat Judah?

    An undefeated Ricky Hatton?

    He didn't make a future HOFer Marquez look like a scrub?

    A bigger Mosley, a bigger Cotto, a bigger Ortiz?

    Like seriously dog... you're talking out your ass.

    You're speaking opinions... im speaking facts.

    Castillo, I'll give you.

    Gatti got beat by Floyd and then lost two of his next three fights and retired. To me that seems like his fight with Floyd was the beginning of the end.

    De la Hoya - as I said before dude got knocked the 🤬 out by Bernard Hopkins, took damn near two years away from boxing, won a gimme fight, and then got beat by Floyd. So we really going to call that prime DLH?

    Judah - dude was coming of a loss to Baldomir, lost to Floyd and then lost 3 out of his next 5 fights. That's prime to you?

    Hatton - lost 2 of his next 4 after Floyd and then was done.

    Marquez - I'll give you

    Mosley - I can't believe you'd even bring up this fight. How long were people calling for this fight before it actually happened? How long was Mosley bouncing from station to station saying Floyd was ducking him? Not to mention that his record following the fight was a draw and two losses. That's definitely not prime territory there.

    Cotto - lost to Floyd, just lost again. Still remains to be seen where his career is going from here.

    Ortiz - lost to Floyd, just lost again. Still remains to be seen where his career is going from here.

    So two the nine people you named were inarguably at high points in their careers. Two who may or may not still be going places. And five who either fell apart after the fight with Floyd meaning they weren't very strong contenders at the time to begin with or were basically on the way out when they fought Floyd. That doesn't exactly support your argument.

    But hey, let's say every fighter you named up there was at their peak. Guess what? Manny also beat 5 of the 9 fighters you posted as big wins for Mayweather. So again, none of those dudes represented as big a challenge for Floyd as Manny. That was the whole reason the people were pushing those two as the only fight worth making because they has similarly cleaned out all reasonable competition. That is a fact. And back to my original point, there is no one like that there for the Klitchkos. There are fighters who have beaten the same people they've beaten, but there can be no question about whether they can beat the Klitchkos because the they have already taken those fights and won them.

    i understand your original point about the Klitchskos so im not here to call you crazy or stupid.
    But basically what u saying is The Miami Heat's 2012 title doesnt really count if the Thunder dont win the west this year. LeBron doesnt REALLY have a ring b/c Durant hasnt won one or didnt win the West. Conf Finals after
    The 96 Sonics never made the Finals again. Does that mean they werent a great team when they played the Bulls
    AI never made the Finals after 2001. Barkley never after 93 Does that mean they werent in their primes or great players

    What happens after two fighters meet is totally irrelevant to that fight. "Styles make fights" "punchers chance" "All it take is one punch" "never the same" etc etc. Think Taylor vs Chavez. These quotes&the excitement that is a boxing match is about the moment. What happens in THAT ring on THAT night. Esp if you're matching up champions, P4P threats, Up&Comers and undefeated fighters at the time. That's what promotion is all about. These two AT THE TIME. Makes THIS FIGHT a special night you dont wanna miss. Using hindsight is very disingenious & convenient. Bringing up what happens after is making it irrelevant jsut to make an argument. Whats the reason there was a 4th Pacquaio-Marquez again??? According to this thread & line of thinking Pac losing to Bradley & every fight in between 2008-12 disqualifies Marquez's knockout...or wait it doesnt b/c JMM is the washed up one which means both are out their primes & neither are great. hmmm either way it makes little sense to think that way
    Frazier was demolished by Foreman & lost to Ali within the same year. He wasnt in his prime anymore,he wasnt great? Hearns lost all his biggest fights but it was never a question of him being great or in his prime.What about De La Hoya w/ Trinidad & the 1st Mosley fight. Or Mosley & the Vernon Forrest fight. How many times did that happen to Lennox? People lose. Someone has to

  • almighty breeze
    almighty breeze Members Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2012
    Splitting these thghts into 2 posts cause it was entirely too long

    Floyds been out of his prime since he came back. So anything past 2008 is fair game
    When Floyd fought Mosley he had just TKO'd Margarito and was said to look the best he ever had in his career.Roach admitted that Mosley looked to good at the time to allow Pac to fight him. Beside that Mosley choose not to fight Floyd in 2006 b/c of a 'toothache'.

    When Floyd fought Hatton they were both 30 or under, undefeated & on top of most P4p lists. Hatton moved up to 147

    Oscar being KO'd by Hopkins is a strange thing to bring up b/c Oscar had no business being a MW in the 1st place. Its great he took 2 years off b/c he needed to get his ass back where he belonged. Using your logic Oscars loss doesnt mean much b/c Hopkins was "young" comparatively then&is still fighting now + has KO'd others in that time

    Floyd fought Oscar at the weight Oscar chose&moved up in weight. After Mayorga in 06 there were no rumors, murmurs or reports of him being 'done' so how was Floyd fighting a washed up fighter. None of these sentiments surfaced until the lead up to the Manny fight(May 07 vs Dec 08). He fought Steve Forbes in between both yet people conveniently forget this. Ignoring also that Manny made him fight a weight he hadnt made in a decade

    Ortiz was 10 years younger, bigger,&stronger.Maybe the strongest fighter Floyd faced. He came into the fight almost 20 lbs heavier at 167 to Floyds 150. Basically Floyd fought a Super Middleweight that night who had just come off the fight of the year & winning a belt from another P4P candidate in Berto. Ortiz's mental toughness came into question with Maidana but was cemented with Lopez, not Floyd. Dont understand how thats a knock on Mayweather

    Judah 🤬 up all on his own b/c his mental toughness&🤬 tendencies when frustrated has always been an issue.Thats not to say he wasnt in his prime in 2006 or a talented top level fighter.
    Baldomir was the one who beat Judah &stole the thunder. Mayweather-Judah was supposed to be for all the marbles,bragging rights&unifications. Margarito was not on the radar until 2007

    i cant agree with singling out Floyd for after the fact events/happenings
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Man with No Fucks Given Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PimpMVP wrote: »
    He didn't fight a bigger taller undefeated top 5 p4p at the time Corrales at his peak?

    He didn't beat Castillo twice at his peak?

    He didn't destroy Gatti?

    Beat a bigger De la Hola?

    He didn't beat Judah?

    An undefeated Ricky Hatton?

    He didn't make a future HOFer Marquez look like a scrub?

    A bigger Mosley, a bigger Cotto, a bigger Ortiz?

    Like seriously dog... you're talking out your ass.

    You're speaking opinions... im speaking facts.

    Castillo, I'll give you.

    Gatti got beat by Floyd and then lost two of his next three fights and retired. To me that seems like his fight with Floyd was the beginning of the end.

    De la Hoya - as I said before dude got knocked the 🤬 out by Bernard Hopkins, took damn near two years away from boxing, won a gimme fight, and then got beat by Floyd. So we really going to call that prime DLH?

    Judah - dude was coming of a loss to Baldomir, lost to Floyd and then lost 3 out of his next 5 fights. That's prime to you?

    Hatton - lost 2 of his next 4 after Floyd and then was done.

    Marquez - I'll give you

    Mosley - I can't believe you'd even bring up this fight. How long were people calling for this fight before it actually happened? How long was Mosley bouncing from station to station saying Floyd was ducking him? Not to mention that his record following the fight was a draw and two losses. That's definitely not prime territory there.

    Cotto - lost to Floyd, just lost again. Still remains to be seen where his career is going from here.

    Ortiz - lost to Floyd, just lost again. Still remains to be seen where his career is going from here.

    So two the nine people you named were inarguably at high points in their careers. Two who may or may not still be going places. And five who either fell apart after the fight with Floyd meaning they weren't very strong contenders at the time to begin with or were basically on the way out when they fought Floyd. That doesn't exactly support your argument.

    But hey, let's say every fighter you named up there was at their peak. Guess what? Manny also beat 5 of the 9 fighters you posted as big wins for Mayweather. So again, none of those dudes represented as big a challenge for Floyd as Manny. That was the whole reason the people were pushing those two as the only fight worth making because they has similarly cleaned out all reasonable competition. That is a fact. And back to my original point, there is no one like that there for the Klitchkos. There are fighters who have beaten the same people they've beaten, but there can be no question about whether they can beat the Klitchkos because the they have already taken those fights and won them.

    i understand your original point about the Klitchskos so im not here to call you crazy or stupid.
    But basically what u saying is The Miami Heat's 2012 title doesnt really count if the Thunder dont win the west this year. LeBron doesnt REALLY have a ring b/c Durant hasnt won one or didnt win the West. Conf Finals after
    The 96 Sonics never made the Finals again. Does that mean they werent a great team when they played the Bulls
    AI never made the Finals after 2001. Barkley never after 93 Does that mean they werent in their primes or great players

    What happens after two fighters meet is totally irrelevant to that fight. "Styles make fights" "punchers chance" "All it take is one punch" "never the same" etc etc. Think Taylor vs Chavez. These quotes&the excitement that is a boxing match is about the moment. What happens in THAT ring on THAT night. Esp if you're matching up champions, P4P threats, Up&Comers and undefeated fighters at the time. That's what promotion is all about. These two AT THE TIME. Makes THIS FIGHT a special night you dont wanna miss. Using hindsight is very disingenious & convenient. Bringing up what happens after is making it irrelevant jsut to make an argument. Whats the reason there was a 4th Pacquaio-Marquez again??? According to this thread & line of thinking Pac losing to Bradley & every fight in between 2008-12 disqualifies Marquez's knockout...or wait it doesnt b/c JMM is the washed up one which means both are out their primes & neither are great. hmmm either way it makes little sense to think that way
    Frazier was demolished by Foreman & lost to Ali within the same year. He wasnt in his prime anymore,he wasnt great? Hearns lost all his biggest fights but it was never a question of him being great or in his prime.What about De La Hoya w/ Trinidad & the 1st Mosley fight. Or Mosley & the Vernon Forrest fight. How many times did that happen to Lennox? People lose. Someone has to

    First of all, thanks for actually providing a well thought out and reasoned response. That seems to be difficult for people to do here.

    Second, you're overplaying things a bit. I'm not disqualifying or negating wins for Mayweather because fighters seemingly fall off after fighting him. But I am saying that it calls into question what stage they were at when they actually fought him. It does make a difference what happens after their fight, and that goes for any sport. Say the Patriots start out a season 8 - 0. People will be going on and on about how they are invincible. Now say the Giants beat them. If the Patriots go on to win their next 4 games, they still will look like the team to beat. If the Patriots go on to lose their next 4 games, then it they aren't going to look like the juggernaut they once were. That's the point. I'm not knocking Mayweather as a fighter when I point out that these dudes fall apart after they lose. I'm knocking them because if a fighter loses in his prime and then can never recover then he probably wasn't as good initially believed or he was on the downswing of his career. That doesn't negate the loss but it does lessen the actual challenge they represented.

    Just look at your examples. Frazier lost to Ali and Foreman and didn't fight again for like 5 years. For all intents and purposes that was the downswing of his career. I think that's what you're not understanding. I'm not saying losing makes a fighter bad, but when a fighter loses and can't recover from the loss, it calls into question what stage of his career he's in. Take Pernell Whitaker for instance. Who likely beat him at a stronger point in his career? Jose Ramirez after which Pernell went undefeated for 25 fights or De La Hoya after which Pernell never won another fight. Or think about Tarver and RJJ. Nothing Jones did after that fight changes the fact Tarver dethroned him, but the fact that he had a flurry of losses after the fight suggests the fight was the start of his decline.

    Again, I'm not even trying to knock FLoyd or his competition. My point with all this was, that stages and the quality of Floyd's opponents can be questioned to some extent for a lot of them. The best way to have capped his legacy would have been to beat Manny when Manny was at the height of his rise. Reason being because Manny had cleared out the competition just like Floyd therefore showing himself to be a premiere contender unlike anyone else Floyd had fought. But he didn't do that, and that's always going to be a question mark attached to his career. There is no such mark for the Klitchkos.

  • Confidential Playa
    Confidential Playa Members Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2012
    I don't get the "floyd waits for fighters to fall off" argument. FLoyd is either older or the same age as these fighters. Why hasn't floyd fallen off after those years of him "ducking"? All that means to me is Floyd is the better figher. As time goes on, these fighters lose all their skills while floyd maintains his and still kicks their ass.

  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Man with No Fucks Given Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't get the "floyd waits for fighters to fall off" argument. FLoyd is either older or the same age as these fighters. Why hasn't floyd fallen off after those years of him "ducking"? All that means to me is Floyd is the better figher. As time goes on, these fighters lose all their skills while floyd maintains his and still kicks their ass.

    You're absolutely right. Floyd has more longevity than pretty much any of the fighters he competes against. That cannot be argued against. What can be argued is whether or not Floyd was better than them when they were at their best. Let's be real. There are lots of flash in the pan fighters that have a spark for a year or two and then fade quickly. There is a difference between beating them while their spark is burning brightly and beating them when it has faded.
  • playmaker88
    playmaker88 Boy, I tell you that's vision Like Tony Romo when he hitting Witten Members Posts: 67,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • aneed123
    aneed123 Members Posts: 23,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why dont I seen Genero Hernandez mentioned? Why dont I see Angel Manfredy? Why dont I see Emmanuel Augustus? Why dont I see Carlos Hernandez or Jesus Chavez? Why dont I see Chop Chop Corley ? all were good fighters and except Augustusand Manfredy were former world champions.... 🤬 just be casual fans
  • DOPEdweebz
    DOPEdweebz What title? www.facebook.com/DOPEdweebzMembers, Moderators, Writer Posts: 29,364 Regulator
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Why dont I seen Genero Hernandez mentioned? Why dont I see Angel Manfredy? Why dont I see Emmanuel Augustus? Why dont I see Carlos Hernandez or Jesus Chavez? Why dont I see Chop Chop Corley ? all were good fighters and except Augustusand Manfredy were former world champions.... 🤬 just be casual fans
    Except this is about the best of this generation not some of the best...
  • aneed123
    aneed123 Members Posts: 23,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    KingGivBiz wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Why dont I seen Genero Hernandez mentioned? Why dont I see Angel Manfredy? Why dont I see Emmanuel Augustus? Why dont I see Carlos Hernandez or Jesus Chavez? Why dont I see Chop Chop Corley ? all were good fighters and except Augustusand Manfredy were former world champions.... 🤬 just be casual fans
    Except this is about the best of this generation not some of the best...

    name me a fighter of this generation whose resume is better? I left off Diego/Castillo/Gatti/Hatton/Mosley/Oscar/Ortiz/JMM/Zab/Cotto. u better not say Manny either cuz he and Floyd share wins and Floyd beat the guys before he did. also this generation is considered what?
  • smittysmith
    smittysmith Members Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    KingGivBiz wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Why dont I seen Genero Hernandez mentioned? Why dont I see Angel Manfredy? Why dont I see Emmanuel Augustus? Why dont I see Carlos Hernandez or Jesus Chavez? Why dont I see Chop Chop Corley ? all were good fighters and except Augustusand Manfredy were former world champions.... 🤬 just be casual fans
    Except this is about the best of this generation not some of the best...

    None of which are close to HOF calibre, Genero may SLIGHTLY be considered.
  • aneed123
    aneed123 Members Posts: 23,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    KingGivBiz wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Why dont I seen Genero Hernandez mentioned? Why dont I see Angel Manfredy? Why dont I see Emmanuel Augustus? Why dont I see Carlos Hernandez or Jesus Chavez? Why dont I see Chop Chop Corley ? all were good fighters and except Augustusand Manfredy were former world champions.... 🤬 just be casual fans
    Except this is about the best of this generation not some of the best...

    None of which are close to HOF calibre, Genero may SLIGHTLY be considered.

    Genro is going to the Hall, Castillo, Diego,Hatton,Gatti,Cotto,Mosley, Oscar all are going to the hall. that 8 hall of famers on his resume and we on here talking down. Hell if Zab beats Garcia he will go to the hall as well
  • DOPEdweebz
    DOPEdweebz What title? www.facebook.com/DOPEdweebzMembers, Moderators, Writer Posts: 29,364 Regulator
    edited December 2012
    aneed123 wrote: »
    KingGivBiz wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Why dont I seen Genero Hernandez mentioned? Why dont I see Angel Manfredy? Why dont I see Emmanuel Augustus? Why dont I see Carlos Hernandez or Jesus Chavez? Why dont I see Chop Chop Corley ? all were good fighters and except Augustusand Manfredy were former world champions.... 🤬 just be casual fans
    Except this is about the best of this generation not some of the best...

    name me a fighter of this generation whose resume is better? I left off Diego/Castillo/Gatti/Hatton/Mosley/Oscar/Ortiz/JMM/Zab/Cotto. u better not say Manny either cuz he and Floyd share wins and Floyd beat the guys before he did. also this generation is considered what?

    Are you just trolling?

    This is about Floyd being the best. Unless you can name me a better fighter in the last 15 years that is still active or was active not too long ago, then you're reaching for points that don't need to be made.
  • aneed123
    aneed123 Members Posts: 23,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    KingGivBiz wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    KingGivBiz wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Why dont I seen Genero Hernandez mentioned? Why dont I see Angel Manfredy? Why dont I see Emmanuel Augustus? Why dont I see Carlos Hernandez or Jesus Chavez? Why dont I see Chop Chop Corley ? all were good fighters and except Augustusand Manfredy were former world champions.... 🤬 just be casual fans
    Except this is about the best of this generation not some of the best...

    name me a fighter of this generation whose resume is better? I left off Diego/Castillo/Gatti/Hatton/Mosley/Oscar/Ortiz/JMM/Zab/Cotto. u better not say Manny either cuz he and Floyd share wins and Floyd beat the guys before he did. also this generation is considered what?

    Are you just trolling?

    This is about Floyd being the best. Unless you can name me a better fighter in the last 15 years that is still active or was active not too long ago, then you're reaching for points that don't need to be made.

    no trollin here... Im spitting facts. I think we arguing the same point tho. Im saying Floyd the best of this generation. Roy was the best before that, Sweet Pea before that, Sugar Ray before that, Ali, before that.....
  • ghost!
    ghost! Not f8kin' around Members Posts: 7,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If what I'm saying is so ridiculous, you'd think one of you boxing officionados could have provided a decent counterar If you can come with something that proves me wrong, I have no problem admitting defeat. Instead, every response has been some idiotic attack on me rather than an actual attempt to refute what I'm saying.

    Ha ha yo you must of been in the boxing thread before, they love to claim only a hand ful of them know about boxing. Especially if you have any constructive criticism of Floyd Mayweather Jr. Ha ha 🤬 be having me dying.
  • ghost!
    ghost! Not f8kin' around Members Posts: 7,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And yes he is this generations best boxer, hands down.
  • ghost!
    ghost! Not f8kin' around Members Posts: 7,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why does there need to be a thread about this I don't know, could of just carry this ish into the boxing thread though.
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Man with No Fucks Given Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    aneed123 wrote: »
    KingGivBiz wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    KingGivBiz wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Why dont I seen Genero Hernandez mentioned? Why dont I see Angel Manfredy? Why dont I see Emmanuel Augustus? Why dont I see Carlos Hernandez or Jesus Chavez? Why dont I see Chop Chop Corley ? all were good fighters and except Augustusand Manfredy were former world champions.... 🤬 just be casual fans
    Except this is about the best of this generation not some of the best...

    name me a fighter of this generation whose resume is better? I left off Diego/Castillo/Gatti/Hatton/Mosley/Oscar/Ortiz/JMM/Zab/Cotto. u better not say Manny either cuz he and Floyd share wins and Floyd beat the guys before he did. also this generation is considered what?

    Are you just trolling?

    This is about Floyd being the best. Unless you can name me a better fighter in the last 15 years that is still active or was active not too long ago, then you're reaching for points that don't need to be made.

    no trollin here... Im spitting facts. I think we arguing the same point tho. Im saying Floyd the best of this generation. Roy was the best before that, Sweet Pea before that, Sugar Ray before that, Ali, before that.....

    I'm not really understanding your generational breakdown. The time periods for Pernell and Roy's careers largely overlap, so I don't know that I would consider them different generations. That says, it just goes to show how much harder it would have been to name a "best of the generation" in the past versus now.
  • smittysmith
    smittysmith Members Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    aneed123 wrote: »
    KingGivBiz wrote: »
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Why dont I seen Genero Hernandez mentioned? Why dont I see Angel Manfredy? Why dont I see Emmanuel Augustus? Why dont I see Carlos Hernandez or Jesus Chavez? Why dont I see Chop Chop Corley ? all were good fighters and except Augustusand Manfredy were former world champions.... 🤬 just be casual fans
    Except this is about the best of this generation not some of the best...

    None of which are close to HOF calibre, Genero may SLIGHTLY be considered.

    Genro is going to the Hall, Castillo, Diego,Hatton,Gatti,Cotto,Mosley, Oscar all are going to the hall. that 8 hall of famers on his resume and we on here talking down. Hell if Zab beats Garcia he will go to the hall as well

    Maybe, maybe not. Honestly, if you go by accomplishment and resume Genero, Gatti, Hatton, and Diego shouldnt make it.
  • smittysmith
    smittysmith Members Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Duran was the fighter of the 70's not Ali IMO

  • BigBallsNoWorries
    BigBallsNoWorries Members Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There will never be a definitive conclusion to arguments like this lol

    But to add a nickel or quarter or so to this 🤬

    Floyd is one of the illest most accurate boxers of all time

    The art of hitting and not getting hit Floyd is 🤬 Picasso at it, his defense is remarkable, it's easily top 10

    Ppl who actually box and know how it feels to fight, for the most part give Floyd his props

    We can talk about manny all we want but at the end of the day

    manny went on a NyQuil trip via a 39 yr old jacked up lightwt that floyd destroyed a few yrs ago and who was a few yrs younger

    and floyd is still top dog

    I can talk about how pacquiao hasn't been 🤬 since he beat cotto

    Or how bob arum basically 🤬 up for the most part the biggest fight in a long ass time

    Of how floyd has been making bank and has and still is the biggest draw in boxing

    But that's like beating a dead horse, and I ain't for animal cruelty

    Though I would prefer rocking minks and furs
  • Dupac
    Dupac Retired PurgatoryMembers, Writer Posts: 68,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    monk....


    if you're offered a job paying $40.00 a hour that looks great on your resume, is convenient for you to get to, and still challenges your best talents...

    why would you pass it up for a job that pays half the money...has absolutely no future, and is just boring as 🤬 all day long?


    floyd took the fights that made the most money, had the better recognized names, and challeged his ability every time...

    never once was their an easy fight...
    no matter how good he looked... he did not take soft touches....


    for those who dump on the oscar fight...let's not forget..split decision... and NO CATCH WEIGHT...like a lotta other fighters have consistently done...

    let's not forget how much ricky hatton called out floyd for not fighting him at 140...dude claimed floyd was ducking him, and after the way hatton knocked castilo the 🤬 out in 4 rounds... 🤬 was sying dude wa far too rough for floyd...

    you may not remember , but i remember 2007 clearly.. hatton knocked castillo the 🤬 out, a guy who fought floyd close as hell....and nigaz were adamant about hatton knocking floyd out... people went as far as to say floyd would NEVER fight hatton...

    hatton was undefeated, and just knocked one of floyd's toughest opponents the 🤬 out....let's be real here...

    and the zab fight..??

    c'mon.. you're talking to the #1 zab fan in the world.....been a zab fan since he turned pro....


    and up until the 2nd half of the fight with floyd.. i was 100% convinced zab was going to be the one to hand floyd that first lost....


    don't do it to yourself.. floyd's resume is tight.....🤬 can call the shane fight a blemish if they want.. but that 2nd round when shane had floyd rocked....everyone watching thought maybe floyd finally bit off more than he could chew
  • perspective@100
    [email protected] Members Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2012
    Byrd had 10 days notice... lol

    "He doesn't have the mentality of a champion. I can hardly believe what I just saw..."

    -Larry Merchant




    and 🤬 Wladimir he has three KO losses...

    Floyd is still undefeated...

    Your logic= Last six fighters for Wladimir has produced 2 wins
    Last six for Vitali has produced 6 with 3 from Tomasz Ademek
  • almighty breeze
    almighty breeze Members Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2012
    Castillo, I'll give you.
    Gatti got beat by Floyd and then lost two of his next three fights and retired. To me that seems like his fight with Floyd was the beginning of the end.

    De la Hoya - as I said before dude got knocked the 🤬 out by Bernard Hopkins, took damn near two years away from boxing, won a gimme fight, and then got beat by Floyd. So we really going to call that prime DLH?

    Judah - dude was coming of a loss to Baldomir, lost to Floyd and then lost 3 out of his next 5 fights. That's prime to you?

    Hatton - lost 2 of his next 4 after Floyd and then was done.

    Marquez - I'll give you

    Mosley - I can't believe you'd even bring up this fight. How long were people calling for this fight before it actually happened? How long was Mosley bouncing from station to station saying Floyd was ducking him? Not to mention that his record following the fight was a draw and two losses. That's definitely not prime territory there.

    Cotto - lost to Floyd, just lost again. Still remains to be seen where his career is going from here.

    Ortiz - lost to Floyd, just lost again. Still remains to be seen where his career is going from here.

    So two the nine people you named were inarguably at high points in their careers. Two who may or may not still be going places. And five who either fell apart after the fight with Floyd meaning they weren't very strong contenders at the time to begin with or were basically on the way out when they fought Floyd. That doesn't exactly support your argument.

    But hey, let's say every fighter you named up there was at their peak. Guess what? Manny also beat 5 of the 9 fighters you posted as big wins for Mayweather. So again, none of those dudes represented as big a challenge for Floyd as Manny. That was the whole reason the people were pushing those two as the only fight worth making because they has similarly cleaned out all reasonable competition. That is a fact. And back to my original point, there is no one like that there for the Klitchkos. There are fighters who have beaten the same people they've beaten, but there can be no question about whether they can beat the Klitchkos because the they have already taken those fights and won them.

    What happens after two fighters meet is totally irrelevant to that fight. "Styles make fights" "punchers chance" "All it take is one punch" "never the same" etc etc. Think Taylor vs Chavez. These quotes&the excitement that is a boxing match is about the moment. What happens in THAT ring on THAT night. Esp if you're matching up champions, P4P threats, Up&Comers and undefeated fighters at the time. That's what promotion is all about. These two AT THE TIME. Makes THIS FIGHT a special night you dont wanna miss. Using hindsight is very disingenious & convenient. Bringing up what happens after is making it irrelevant jsut to make an argument. Whats the reason there was a 4th Pacquaio-Marquez again??? According to this thread & line of thinking Pac losing to Bradley & every fight in between 2008-12 disqualifies Marquez's knockout...or wait it doesnt b/c JMM is the washed up one which means both are out their primes & neither are great. hmmm either way it makes little sense to think that way
    Frazier was demolished by Foreman & lost to Ali within the same year. He wasnt in his prime anymore,he wasnt great? Hearns lost all his biggest fights but it was never a question of him being great or in his prime.What about De La Hoya w/ Trinidad & the 1st Mosley fight. Or Mosley & the Vernon Forrest fight. How many times did that happen to Lennox? People lose. Someone has to

    First of all, thanks for actually providing a well thought out and reasoned response. That seems to be difficult for people to do here.

    Second, you're overplaying things a bit. I'm not disqualifying or negating wins for Mayweather because fighters seemingly fall off after fighting him. But I am saying that it calls into question what stage they were at when they actually fought him. It does make a difference what happens after their fight, and that goes for any sport. Say the Patriots start out a season 8 - 0. People will be going on and on about how they are invincible. Now say the Giants beat them. If the Patriots go on to win their next 4 games, they still will look like the team to beat. If the Patriots go on to lose their next 4 games, then it they aren't going to look like the juggernaut they once were. That's the point. I'm not knocking Mayweather as a fighter when I point out that these dudes fall apart after they lose. I'm knocking them because if a fighter loses in his prime and then can never recover then he probably wasn't as good initially believed or he was on the downswing of his career. That doesn't negate the loss but it does lessen the actual challenge they represented.

    Just look at your examples. Frazier lost to Ali and Foreman and didn't fight again for like 5 years. For all intents and purposes that was the downswing of his career. I think that's what you're not understanding. I'm not saying losing makes a fighter bad, but when a fighter loses and can't recover from the loss, it calls into question what stage of his career he's in. Take Pernell Whitaker for instance. Who likely beat him at a stronger point in his career? Jose Ramirez after which Pernell went undefeated for 25 fights or De La Hoya after which Pernell never won another fight. Or think about Tarver and RJJ. Nothing Jones did after that fight changes the fact Tarver dethroned him, but the fact that he had a flurry of losses after the fight suggests the fight was the start of his decline.

    Again, I'm not even trying to knock FLoyd or his competition. My point with all this was, that stages and the quality of Floyd's opponents can be questioned to some extent for a lot of them. The best way to have capped his legacy would have been to beat Manny when Manny was at the height of his rise. Reason being because Manny had cleared out the competition just like Floyd therefore showing himself to be a premiere contender unlike anyone else Floyd had fought. But he didn't do that, and that's always going to be a question mark attached to his career. There is no such mark for the Klitchkos.

    i dig that and i can agree. responding to your post you were saying things like "oh well he lost and he lost again after" which really minimizes the sport to me. but with this clarification i have no issue with your statments

    i was always a fan of the sport. i started following boxing on the week to week-fight by fight- "in the know basis" with the De La Hoya-Quartey fight. My favorites were a researched Sweet Pea, Hopkins & RJJ, Prince Naseem, Mosley & Trinidad. I had heard of & seen Floyd before liked what i saw but had not seen a full fight of his until 2003 against N'Dou which made me a fan

    So ill say that at the time of all fights made regardless of age or flaw. Every fighter after 2004 was promoted or truly believed to be the one to beat Floyd or be the one that was too much to handle and eventually, the one to "Shut His Mouth"; especially Judah,Corrales, Gatti, and Hatton. Floyd cashed out with De La Hoya & i dont blame him one bit but until 2007 Floyd always looked for the best fight,fighter and money. now it may be 2 out of 3 or some combo

    Manny is just a revved up version of the Cotto debacle with the media and an entire hemisphere on his side. If it happens it happens. I want the fight just like i wanted LeBrons ring: so we can actually get back to boxing/basketball
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Man with No Fucks Given Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2012

    i dig that and i can agree. responding to your post you were saying things like "oh well he lost and he lost again after" which really minimizes the sport to me. but with this clarification i have no issue with your statments

    i was always a fan of the sport. i started following boxing on the week to week-fight by fight- "in the know basis" with the De La Hoya-Quartey fight. My favorites were a researched Sweet Pea, Hopkins & RJJ, Prince Naseem, Mosley & Trinidad. I had heard of & seen Floyd before liked what i saw but had not seen a full fight of his until 2003 against N'Dou which made me a fan

    So ill say that at the time of all fights made regardless of age or flaw. Every fighter after 2004 was promoted or truly believed to be the one to beat Floyd or be the one that was too much to handle and eventually, the one to "Shut His Mouth"; especially Judah,Corrales, Gatti, and Hatton. Floyd cashed out with De La Hoya & i dont blame him one bit but until 2007 Floyd always looked for the best fight,fighter and money. now it may be 2 out of 3 or some combo

    Manny is just a revved up version of the Cotto debacle with the media and an entire hemisphere on his side. If it happens it happens. I want the fight just like i wanted LeBrons ring: so we can actually get back to boxing/basketball

    Yeah, in looking back at my post, I really didn't make my argument too well.

    But to your comment about all these guys supposing to be the one that would shut his mouth. I don't even like Floyd and I'll still say that about half the people that were supposed to shut him up, everyone knew couldn't get the job done. I mean they tried to build the Ortiz fight up as a potential tough one for Floyd, but we all knew that he was going to walk all over him. I'm not saying Floyd doesn't have any good wins under his belt, but this is a weak time in boxing. That's not Floyd's fault though. It is his fault that he didn't take down Manny while Manny was still seen as an unstoppable force.
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2012

    i dig that and i can agree. responding to your post you were saying things like "oh well he lost and he lost again after" which really minimizes the sport to me. but with this clarification i have no issue with your statments

    i was always a fan of the sport. i started following boxing on the week to week-fight by fight- "in the know basis" with the De La Hoya-Quartey fight. My favorites were a researched Sweet Pea, Hopkins & RJJ, Prince Naseem, Mosley & Trinidad. I had heard of & seen Floyd before liked what i saw but had not seen a full fight of his until 2003 against N'Dou which made me a fan

    So ill say that at the time of all fights made regardless of age or flaw. Every fighter after 2004 was promoted or truly believed to be the one to beat Floyd or be the one that was too much to handle and eventually, the one to "Shut His Mouth"; especially Judah,Corrales, Gatti, and Hatton. Floyd cashed out with De La Hoya & i dont blame him one bit but until 2007 Floyd always looked for the best fight,fighter and money. now it may be 2 out of 3 or some combo

    Manny is just a revved up version of the Cotto debacle with the media and an entire hemisphere on his side. If it happens it happens. I want the fight just like i wanted LeBrons ring: so we can actually get back to boxing/basketball

    Yeah, in looking back at my post, I really didn't make my argument too well.

    But to your comment about all these guys supposing to be the one that would shut his mouth. I don't even like Floyd and I'll still say that about half the people that were supposed to shut him up, everyone knew couldn't get the job done. I mean they tried to build the Ortiz fight up as a potential tough one for Floyd, but we all knew that he was going to walk all over him. I'm not saying Floyd doesn't have any good wins under his belt, but this is a weak time in boxing. That's not Floyd's fault though. It is his fault that he didn't take down Manny while Manny was still seen as an unstoppable force.

    I agree with most of what u said , but I think Manny was more built up as a unstoppable force , but the reality was totally different . Manny was a good anti Floyd and if Floyd would have beat the breaks off of him like most of us suspect he would have the win would have looked better than it actually was just because the way Manny was built up
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