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Reason Debates VI: Young_Chitlin vs buttuh_b (Buttuh _B wins)

5th Letter
5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
edited June 2013 in The Reason
This is the Reason Debates VI the purpose of these debates is for healthy debates and plus it's something fun to do. There will be a 500 word limit, nothing over that amount. Each debate will be 24 hours after that point the debates will be over. Each participant will get 3 try's. After the debates are over posters are allowed to vote. The rules on voting is simple, you are to vote on who made the better argument and not the side you agree with.


Debate Topic- Is Lil B good for hip-hop?

Young_Chitlin- Yes
buttuh_b- No
«13

Comments

  • _Menace_
    _Menace_ R.I.P KOBE Bay Area Members, Writer Posts: 26,613 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • 5th Letter
    5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
  • Young_Chitlin
    Young_Chitlin YCN Chief/FCC Member/#RedVelvetSquad Member/IC Task Force General ASUville, PhoenixMembers Posts: 23,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will, just finishing up my argument it will be up soon
  • Young_Chitlin
    Young_Chitlin YCN Chief/FCC Member/#RedVelvetSquad Member/IC Task Force General ASUville, PhoenixMembers Posts: 23,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is Lil B good for hip-hop?

    The focus of this debate is whether or not Brandon McCartney aka Lil B aka The Based 🤬 is good for hip-hop… Without question he is not only good, but great for hip-hop. People label his persona as that of a troll, subsequently dissing Lil B music for going from talking about being Jesus Christ and flexing 36 to talking about never returning to the bad times.

    Hmm, wait just a minute right there- from talking about being Jesus Christ and flexing 36 to talking about never returning to the bad times


    While Lil B can indeed talk about being Jesus, Mel Gibson, DR. PHIL, he can also rap about deep issues affecting our society. I don’t see that as being a troll, I see that as a person who is versatile. Lil B is a rapper than can talk about any issue. He had no qualms about titling an album I’m 🤬 . The ignorant people view those words and turn homophobic because of what the aforementioned title could imply. For those that do not wish to know, 🤬 is another way of saying he is happy. The title was I’m 🤬 (I’m Happy).

    Let’s talk about the beats- Lil B has some good beats selected for his song. This highlights another great thing about the Based 🤬 - he can rap on ANY beat. On the song Pretty Boy (Remix), the beat was a sample from Sanctuary by UTADA HIKARU.







    It can be argued that he had the better verse over Lil Wayne on Grove Street Party






    Listen to the beat on Exhibit Based






    Let’s see… Lil B has an impressive fan base. He made a song called Task Force that has become a roll call for his fans. His fans (including me) show support for all his videos on Youtube and other mediums that play his music. You know people listen to your message when you are invited to prestigious universities such as NYU to lecture the students about the Based life. Amazing, isn’t it? I have laid out plenty of points that have strengthened my opening argument and I have not even begun to mention the word “Based.” People immediately think of the drug definition of Based, but as for me? Lil B epitomizes what the true meaning of Based is. Being Based is doing what you love to do and being happy at the same. Being in a positive state of mind is what a true Based person is. Lil B and 1,000+ songs exemplify the Based life and why he is indeed good for hip-hop.
  • buttuh_b
    buttuh_b Members Posts: 13,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    lil_b_rapradar.jpg

    Is Lil B good for hip-hop?

    Are chitlins good for your blood pressure? The answer to the question is rather obvious. First things first.. the question isn’t asking whether the former Pack member representing Berkley, CA is bad or detrimental to the rap culture, but does he add value to the genre? Simply no.

    There has long been an issue in hip hop where our genre has experienced trouble attempting to gain credibility among the music world. Tune in to the Grammys and we can’t even get a TV spot for our awards. The “rap” performances you do see little resemble what we have grown to love and could probably be better described as techno than anything else. What does this have to do with Lil B? Well as my opponent admitted, Lil B is a troll who is not to be taken serious. His actions are more concerned with seeking attention than putting together quality music. At a pivotal stage in history, Lil B is the last thing hip hop needs to take itself to the next level as an art form.

    Kendrick Lamar is good for hip hop. Big K.R.I.T. is good for hip hop. Kanye West is good for hip hop. Rappers with actual talent. It can be applauded that Lil B sometimes attempts to shed light on social issues (which many rappers before and after have done a much better job at) but it is vastly overshadowed by the other eccentric behavior he displays. Essentially, his message isn’t even heard. The young man is also unable to even ride a beat and often times his verses are incoherent. Half of the beats he uses are from other rappers and he takes little time to work on his craft and instead cranks out a ridiculous output of songs rather than taking his time. And this is supposed to be good for hip hop?

    If anything, it opens the gate for other rappers to not take their craft seriously and lowers quality standards. Out of all the articulate rappers with resumes to back up, Lil B is the one you want representing us at NYU? So they can turn on videos of him wearing girls clothes singing “Suck My 🤬 🤬 ” and laugh at him? You should not have to compromise your integrity to be heard, so no he is not good for hip hop.
  • Young_Chitlin
    Young_Chitlin YCN Chief/FCC Member/#RedVelvetSquad Member/IC Task Force General ASUville, PhoenixMembers Posts: 23,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is Lil B good for hip-hop?

    My opponent attempts a raw punchline with bold to start his counter… but it does not register on the grill. I never directed labeled Lil B as a troll, rather I was speaking of the majority of people that are not his fans who believe that he is. He adds value to rap.

    My opponent brings up the Grammy’s into this debate, musing about why rap doesn’t get more air time on that awards show. To quote someone who recently had something to say about the Grammy’s
    It means next to nothing to actually win a Grammy.

    The Grammy’s add no value. A favorite rapper one 5 Grammy’s, does that instantly translate to a sales spike for his or her album? They get an increased tick in buzz, some trending topics on social media but after a few weeks? Literal flat lining.
    His actions are more concerned with seeking attention than putting together quality music. At a pivotal stage in history, Lil B is the last thing hip hop needs to take itself to the next level as an art form.

    Just like in my previous debate, certain words hold varying meanings to different people. I’d like to quote a second person who says this about Lil B:
    He's not making art designed to last the test of time, so holding him to the standards of timeless art is pointless. If he really didn't think that the world was a beautiful and endlessly amusing place, where does he find the energy to keep rapping about it for free?

    Why is it Lil B’s job to help hip-hop vault onto another form? A rapper who puts out vast quantities of music about various topics that demonstrates his versatility should be lauded. When Lil B raps about the social issues, he can tell as good a story as the rappers my opponent listed.







    Lil B sampled Imogen Heap’s Just For Now song on two consecutive tracks for his 6 Kiss mixtape. Rappers sample music all the time, but to sample the same song twice in a row on one of your tapes?


    If anything, it opens the gate for other rappers to not take their craft seriously and lowers quality standards. Out of all the articulate rappers with resumes to back up, Lil B is the one you want representing us at NYU?


    Certainly other rappers could’ve gone to NYU and lectured and it all would have gone well. The people wanted Lil B for the message that he brought about the Based life. Other factors definitely were involved, but you cannot deny the message in and of itself during the lecture. Some key words he spoke of (honesty, integrity) are invaluable traits to have.
    I learned that you have to live by your own rules, and still keep it positive. –Lil B



  • buttuh_b
    buttuh_b Members Posts: 13,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why is it Lil B’s job to help hip-hop vault onto another form? A rapper who puts out vast quantities of music about various topics that demonstrates his versatility should be lauded. When Lil B raps about the social issues, he can tell as good a story as the rappers my opponent listed.

    It's not his job but if he really was good for hip hop as you claim, he would at least contribute to the movement in some way. What value does he really add?? You say he touches on a wide range of topics. A lot of rappers do. Sure, maybe hip hop would have room for more of that if only he made better music!! Objectively, even without complex technical abilities on the mic, a prerequisite expected among rappers who ride the rhythm of the drum is to at least stay on the beat and operate within the bar structure for the ease of the listeners' ears. Doesn't take a PHD in music to grasp that. Lil B has not shown the ability to do that, therefore rendering any positive message he has ineffective to the audience.
    I never directed labeled Lil B as a troll, rather I was speaking of the majority of people that are not his fans who believe that he is.

    If he's labeled a troll by the masses, do people take him serious? It's a fine line between expressing yourself and just doing 🤬 to draw attention to yourself. Lil Boss is guilty of the latter according to the public jury regardless of his intention. The only thing his presence in hip hop will do is encourage more substance-less odd behavior by up and comers because they see it works to gain fame. Not only this, but it confuses the youth in an already emasculated era in a genre that prides itself in masculinity. If anything, we need more aggressive content to balance all the soft 🤬 that's out right now.

    As far as the Grammy's... It's just an example of how Hip Hop - the topic we talkin bout is marginalized by the music industry and world based on our rebellious nature and non-conformity to agendas. They want nothing more than to see our rappers act like 🤬 fools like Lil B so they can further enforce the idea that we aren't a real respectable genre.

    Finally, Lil B can sample the same song as many times in a row as he wants. To me that demonstrates laziness. It sounds like he records every mixtape in one hour-long take without taking the time to refine the product he delivers to his consumers. I mean 🤬 damn Based 🤬 .... You got more songs than @Young_Chitlin threads about a teacher sexing a student in the G&S. Slow down.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    good debate....one of the best so far.
  • _Menace_
    _Menace_ R.I.P KOBE Bay Area Members, Writer Posts: 26,613 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Buttuh dropped some heat....
  • bambu
    bambu *Earth & Water* Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No 🤬 .........

    Sorry @Young_Chitlin.........

    The Gods are indeed biased...........

    And frown on all forms of faggotry..........

    @buttuh_b..... Earns favor from the Gods.........


  • Young_Chitlin
    Young_Chitlin YCN Chief/FCC Member/#RedVelvetSquad Member/IC Task Force General ASUville, PhoenixMembers Posts: 23,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is Lil B good for hip-hop?

    That is an easy question… but hold on a minute though. My opponent spent 137 words explaining why Lil B brings no value to the rap game. I point to the following lines said by KRS One:
    Hip means to know
    It's a form of intelligence
    To be hip is to be up-date and relevant
    Hop is a form of movement


    Lil B knows his audience. His Based music (no matter what song it is) if you take the time to truly appreciate it, is some very profound art that positively impacts you. Many people are going through tough times in our country. Lil B has a song titled Never Going Back that if listened to in its entirety, one gathers that he wants to let the people know that once you’re doing good, keep working hard- keep being hungry and motivated to succeed. How invaluable are such messages to the people? I believe Lil B is hip because his music is tailored to what is current in our society; from the people trending to the current issues that affect our everyday lives.

    It's a fine line between expressing yourself and just doing 🤬 to draw attention to yourself.

    My opponent believes that a better hip-hop artist should’ve gone to NYU to do a lecture. I’m sure such an artist would’ve done fine but Lil B’s message was one that the audience, people that were around his age, could truly relate to. Sure it was different that he pretended to sleep on that table, but the words that he spoke while in that state ring true.
    Have fun. Do what you want. Be less ignorant. -Lil B

    My people, you gota think before you move, you gota speak before you cry, you gota live before you die. –Lil B

    But be honest with yourself. Be around people who represent you, who you feel is on the same kind of monotone, you feel me? –Lil B


    If anything, we need more aggressive content to balance all the soft 🤬 that's out right now.











    Entities such as the Grammy’s find the first negative thing to immediately diss the rap game. Lil B, because of how he carries himself, always gets singled out by varying powers that be. That has not stopped him from making great music and being good for hip-hop.

    White Flame
    Green Flame
    Pink Flame
    Black Flame
    PYT
    Red Flame
    Evil Red Flame
    Blue Flame
    6 Kiss
    I’m 🤬 (I’m Happy)

    Us Based people truly know what each mixtape of Lil B means. It doesn’t have to be just us though. Anyone that takes the time to listen to any mixtape of his will know the message that is being conveyed. It could very well be true that it doesn’t take Lil B long to record tracks… why would it take long if you already know what you want to say and how you want to say it?






  • Young_Chitlin
    Young_Chitlin YCN Chief/FCC Member/#RedVelvetSquad Member/IC Task Force General ASUville, PhoenixMembers Posts: 23,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • 5th Letter
    5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    Debate is over
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    both stayed on topic without straying too far an had good points.

    nice stab at chitlins.....that was some underhanded ether type 🤬 ....lol

    but i will go with @young_chitlin

    he stayed true to his point an i felt he made a strong point of lil b's music yet his positive approach outside of it.

    the based argument did it for me, which buttah didnt attack hard enough
  • buttuh_b
    buttuh_b Members Posts: 13,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jury of the IC, I ask that you dismiss this case because my opponent has already lost this argument. He failed to prove that Lil B is...good for Hip-Hop. Literally the only points he has made are that Lil B makes "positive" music that his "Based" fans like. That alone means the young man is good for our cherished genre??? I don't think a statement of that nature should be thrown around lightly, especially regarding a rapper who shows no respect for the culture evidenced by his negligence of quality. If rap music was a physical consumer product, Lil B would go broke from a class action lawsuit from the damages our ears have sustained from his poorly engineered train wrecks.

    Notice how my opponent failed to address my points about Lil Boss not being able to catch a beat. Notice how my opponent just shrugged off my quality over quantity standard for our genre? Notice how my opponent could not counter my point about the ineffectiveness of any "messages" Lil B is sending when he is only viewed as a troll. And that's what it all boils down to. Presentation is everything. Everyone has their views on sexuality and rights. Personally, I have no issue with 🤬 people being 🤬 . But what I do have a problem with is my son growing up in a world where the impressionable music that I love so much encouraging 🤬 behavior. Could we even call it hip hop any more??

    My opponent failed to identify a void that is currently pervasive in hip hop and how Lil B would fill that. Nope. Instead he did the Lil B way. Went off into his own world about how the "Based fans" are satisfied without regard to the accessibility of the general hip hop listener.
    Us Based people truly know what each mixtape of Lil B means.

    Being the head I am, I own several of Lil B's mixtapes including Red Flame and I can personally assure you that the Us probably doesn't include YOU. All you need to ask yourself to answer the debate question is this: Would you like Lil B to set a precedent for future acts to come?? If you answer yes, you might want to stop smoking chitlins.
  • buttuh_b
    buttuh_b Members Posts: 13,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How did voting start before I got a chance to put my closing argument up?
  • Young_Chitlin
    Young_Chitlin YCN Chief/FCC Member/#RedVelvetSquad Member/IC Task Force General ASUville, PhoenixMembers Posts: 23,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    buttuh_b wrote: »
    How did voting start before I got a chance to put my closing argument up?

    Oh my bad I thought you had made 3 arguments already. @Jamaica please do not count the votes before @buttuh_b's closing argument.
  • 5th Letter
    5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    y'all were taking long but i'll count buttuh_b's last post.
  • buttuh_b
    buttuh_b Members Posts: 13,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jamaica wrote: »
    y'all were taking long but i'll count buttuh_b's last post.

    My rebuttal to his post was only an hour after his last post.
  • 5th Letter
    5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    buttuh_b wrote: »
    Jamaica wrote: »
    y'all were taking long but i'll count buttuh_b's last post.

    My rebuttal to his post was only an hour after his last post.

    right but the rules was 24 hours, i've been lenient on the rules.
  • TimeToParty
    TimeToParty Members Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭✭
    Gonna have to go with young on this one, The KRS quote really hit the nail on the coffin for me. The fact that i dont like lil b and young really made me view his music from a different angle also helped in my decision.

    +1 young_chitlin
  • Cymicaldane
    Cymicaldane The Danish OG Members Posts: 2,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess i must be an old 🤬 . I have to disqualify myself on this, as i have only listened to about one of two of his cuts.
  • FyHunnit
    FyHunnit I'm Mad Members, Writer Posts: 9,699 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    I'm sorry but i think Buttuh_B ran away with this debate a long time ago. That last post by Buttuh was flat out ether so i'll make this my reason for siding with him:

    He failed to prove that Lil B is...good for Hip-Hop. Literally the only points he has made are that Lil B makes "positive" music that his "Based" fans like.




    Chitlin my 🤬 , i hate it had to be him...
  • themadlionsfan
    themadlionsfan Members Posts: 9,133 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I gotta go with Buttah B on this one.......while chitlin was able to point to the positive aspects of Lil B's music...Buttah his the nail on the head as far as presentation.....and presentation is the most important aspect of all....think about it.....one of the most skilled rappers that I've ever heard as far as punchlines go in Chino XL but I can only listen to it him in bits and pieces due to his horrible flow....if you can't show any skill in this artform....I can't 🤬 with regardless of your message.......and as far as NYU wanting to hear what Lil B had to say based on his music,..well I really don't think that was a good argument because people nowadays are skewed and can't really differentiate from real talent and just talkin loud on beats....

    is Lil B good for Hip Hop....well in my opinion this hit the nail on the head right here
    Being the head I am, I own several of Lil B's mixtapes including Red Flame and I can personally assure you that the Us probably doesn't include YOU. All you need to ask yourself to answer the debate question is this: Would you like Lil B to set a precedent for future acts to come??

    for me the answer is an overwhelming no....
This discussion has been closed.