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Social Lounge Special - Plutarch vs. Pralims - Debate Challenge *Plutarch Wins*

Sion
Sion Moderator, Legion of Trill, AHH Content Producer, AHH EditorMembers, Moderators, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 45,666 Regulator
edited December 2013 in The Social Lounge
Basically it's the same principle as our previous debates. If @Plutarch wins, @pralims must honor their arrangement:

"if you win the next debate you will get up to 12 tickets to a sixers game in my suite at the wells fargo center. all food and drink included (reasonable amounts). and everybody can hold me to it."

and if Plutarch loses:

"you dont post for a month, and afterwards you have to have a sig chosen by me for a month."

This challenge was actually issued by pralims and accepted by both participants so I'll keep this up until one of the 2 finish the debate.

The topic is:

"Should there be a nationwide ban on assault rifles & military style machine guns in the United States ?"
(btw this does not impact handguns - only machine guns)


Yes - Plutarch
No - pralims




Note: if any of the participants do not honor their arrangement I will ban them for 30 days & edittheir AVIs while I'm at it. Good luck to you all !!

Social Lounge Special - Plutarch vs. Pralims - Debate Challenge 12 votes

Yes - Plutarch
50%
SionNothingButTheTruthYoung_ChitlinPlutarchValentinez A. KaiserMissK 6 votes
No - pralims
50%
janklowmiami cane2stepz_aheadGhostdenithegawdpurpngoldSicky Mouse 6 votes
«13

Comments

  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No - pralims
    damn...just saw this...ok let me start.

    Thank you all for allowing me to debate again and thank you for coming thru to read my stance.

    I will defend why a nationwide ban on military guns and assault rifle should not be allowed.

    I will start off with the fact that our country is a freedom based society. We are free to do what we like and purchase what we like. If that purchase is to buy a AR-15 then so be it.
    nOw while I do understand that they could land in the hands of criminal, that should not stop the law abiding citizens the rights and freedoms afforded to us by our own bills of rights. which brings me to my next point....

    the right to bear arms....during the creation of the amendments they made sure to place this second for the reason stated by Sir William Blackstone:

    an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state.

    this is to stop the government from getting too crazy with it's citizens and to create a resistance against rouge govt and/or foreign enemies and invasions.
    We as people of the United States had the right to defend ourselves.

    @Plutarch
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    No - pralims
    question about this debate: are they debating MACHINE GUNS or semi-automatic weapons commonly identified as "assault weapons?"

    i don't want to bog the debate down before it gets going but i do think they might to clarify this point...
  • Sion
    Sion Moderator, Legion of Trill, AHH Content Producer, AHH Editor Members, Moderators, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 45,666 Regulator
    Yes - Plutarch
    My apologies I meant it to be both, as in machine guns and assault weapons like AK47s, Colt M4A1s, Steyr Augs, SMGs, Mac10s, things like that.

    So one person is to debate for and the other against.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No - pralims
    no need to justify.....he gonna lose
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    No - pralims
    Sion wrote: »
    My apologies I meant it to be both, as in machine guns and assault weapons like AK47s, Colt M4A1s, Steyr Augs, SMGs, Mac10s, things like that.
    no apology necessary, just curious. there's a distinction between the two but it might not be relevant depending on how they debate it

    ps. go AUGs
  • Knock_Twice
    Knock_Twice Getting it out the mud Members Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • LUClEN
    LUClEN Absence makes the heart grow fonder of someone else Members Posts: 20,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2013
    Pralims going to lose. This is issue is mad polarizing and he has the harder position to defend.
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    No - pralims
    Elrawd wrote: »
    Pralims going to lose. This is issue is mad polarizing and he has the harder position to defend.
    if we're arguing based on logic? nah

  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes - Plutarch
    Oh 🤬 , my bad. Just peeped this. This is going to be a good one though. I'm getting them tickets though 🤬 , best believe that. No mercy. And I'm gonna need fried onions on that cheesesteak ya dig? Right now I'm dead tired and swamped with schoolwork, so I'll put up my response before tonight.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No - pralims
    first game of the season...ivesron was in the suite right next to mine.

    i met him , meek mill and desean jackson theo ratliff and on the elevator i met moses malone.

    🤬 i got pics an eerthang.

    but no pressure.

    if we speed this up maybe you can get ticket to the rockets game
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    No - pralims
    pralims wrote: »
    first game of the season...ivesron was in the suite right next to mine.
    i met him , meek mill and desean jackson theo ratliff and on the elevator i met moses malone.
    if you restrict this to just Sixers, then i'm kind of sort of jealous
  • LUClEN
    LUClEN Absence makes the heart grow fonder of someone else Members Posts: 20,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    Elrawd wrote: »
    Pralims going to lose. This is issue is mad polarizing and he has the harder position to defend.
    if we're arguing based on logic? nah

    You're pro guns, I suspect you're going to be easy to convince. However I am doubtful your view is shared by the rest of the voting population.

  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No - pralims
    janklow wrote: »
    pralims wrote: »
    first game of the season...ivesron was in the suite right next to mine.
    i met him , meek mill and desean jackson theo ratliff and on the elevator i met moses malone.
    if you restrict this to just Sixers, then i'm kind of sort of jealous

    why you want Tix to a game?
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes - Plutarch
    pralims wrote: »
    first game of the season...ivesron was in the suite right next to mine.

    i met him , meek mill and desean jackson theo ratliff and on the elevator i met moses malone.

    🤬 i got pics an eerthang.

    but no pressure.

    if we speed this up maybe you can get ticket to the rockets game

    Fuuuuuck. Say word?! And Malone too!? 🤬 . That was one hell of a game too. After we fumbled that 19-0 run, I was heated. But them boys pulled through and made Lebron eat 🤬 . Hopefully, we can challenge the Heat, let alone the Atlantic division. AI needs to come to every game of the season and then every game in the post season, and then when we win, he should get the ring that he deserved in '01 and be the first one to touch the Larry O'Brien. But drop those pics man.

    Can't make it to the Rockets game. I got a big ass paper to do all weekend (every last minute too), so I gotta postpone my response. But I'll drop it on Monday, and then we can get this thing going. My apologies.
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    edited November 2013
    No - pralims
    Elrawd wrote: »
    You're pro guns, I suspect you're going to be easy to convince. However I am doubtful your view is shared by the rest of the voting population.
    i'm very pro-guns, but i also don't base my position on an emotional appeal or questionable... which, to be honest, are the prime methodology for the vast majority of the anti-gun side. so...

    also, polling also indicates that your theory on the rest of the voting population is not entirely accurate. but this is also why i asked for the above distinction, which is one i also don't think a lot of people can even accurately make.
    pralims wrote: »
    why you want Tix to a game?
    mostly i just want to say "🤬 my tiny hero AI" with a wistful air

  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes - Plutarch
    ay give me a few more days. i was ready to go at it back in october, but life is kicking my ass right now.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No - pralims
    imma bout to just give the 🤬 the tix.....i might already be in switzerland when he responds.
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2013
    Yes - Plutarch
    Hello and thank you all for your time. I apologize for the wait. Even though I’m swamped for the weekend, I might be able to find the time to follow through to the end of this debate over the next couple of days with no more interruptions and long waits. Ok, so let me begin. Today, I will argue that there should be a nationwide ban on assault rifles and military style machine guns in the United States.

    I want to first say that I am not arguing against the right of American citizens to defend themselves. Instead, what I am arguing against is irrationality and anarchy. In other words, what I am arguing for is common sense and democracy.

    What I am arguing for is common sense. A recent Washington Post/ABC poll taken just a few months ago asked the American public this very question that we are debating – “Would you support or oppose a law requiring a nationwide ban on the sale of assault weapons?” – and 56% of the people voted to support. The percentage of gun control advocates grows even more when you ask them about supporting background check laws. Clearly, the American public is on my side. America has spoken, and since this is a democracy and it is the people who make their own laws, I see no other reason why a nationwide ban should not be implemented. Americans need only common sense to see that our gun laws are in serious need of reform. Even Mitt Romney and Barrack Obama supported gun control, and they’re political rivals. Speaking of which, a big bulk of those who oppose gun control do so only to keep up appearances to antagonize Obama or, if you’re the NRA, to propagandize and exploit others.

    I want to address the fact that my opponent talks about freedom and the Second Amendment. I am certainly not anti-freedom, and all Americans should enjoy their freedoms, but they should do so only to a reasonable extent. Too much freedom is anarchy, and that is what my opponent supports. I do not object to Americans using semi-automatic pistols or shotguns to defend themselves, their loved ones, and their property. In fact, these very weapons are much more effective. However, assault weapons such as MAC-10s, Tec-9s, AK-47s, and M16s are unnecessary and overkill. They are designed for war and massive killing, and most require militarized training and professional safekeeping that civilians do not have access to. The second amendment invokes “militias” and “arms,” but militias are not military and thus do not need militarized weaponry, and “arms” should not be irresponsibly expanded from its colonial origins to include everything from machine pistols to automatic rifles. Nuclear arms are considered arms too. Do Americans have the right to bear nuclear arms? I think not.

    @pralims
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes - Plutarch
    ^^^ Yo Sion. Word count is 468. I wasn't sure what the word limit was, but I thought it was 500.
    pralims wrote: »
    imma bout to just give the 🤬 the tix.....i might already be in switzerland when he responds.

    ^^^ nah nah. I'm gonna earn them jawns. I'm good. For now. What you doing in Switzerland?
  • Sion
    Sion Moderator, Legion of Trill, AHH Content Producer, AHH Editor Members, Moderators, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 45,666 Regulator
    Yes - Plutarch
    Plutarch wrote: »
    ^^^ Yo Sion. Word count is 468. I wasn't sure what the word limit was, but I thought it was 500.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL it's cool fam not like I'm gonna bust chops and count anyways LOLOLOL I'll read anything, if you go over I won't mind, now I can't say the same for others however, voters might not like huge titangraphs so be mindful of walls of texts. It aint me you tryna persuade it's voters.
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    No - pralims
    oh man my head is probably going to explode if i keep reading this thread
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No - pralims
    ohhhhhh...now this 🤬 wants to respond. ok pimpin.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No - pralims
    ok well my opponents says that giving the populace assault rifles would create anarchy....well i have two things to say about that.

    1.anarchy is a form of chaos. within chaos is order and order always rises to the top. the big bang was chaos in the beginning but now the massive release of energy has order. in the middle of a hurricane there is order. anarchy is not a bad thing unless it is allowed to take over. that is why the populace should be able to rise up against an out of control govt that is chaotic to create order.

    2. As most people know i am moving to a small country called Switzerland. Now Switzerland has a very small population of about 8mill ppl. It rank third behind the US and serbia as far as guns per capita. most of the gun deaths come from suicide an not homicide. People are allowed assault rifles. But they use them for sport or home protection. They have sharpshooting lessons for the youth and most adult know how to sharpshoot. Its the US that is crazy. It is the mentality of the people that needs to change, not the gun laws(i will return to this later)
    think about it like this. from what i said in my opening post, the citizens should be allowed guns to protect the country from foreign invasion. Think about why Switzerland did get invaded by 🤬 . He went after the UK, Poland, amsterdam and keep a foot in the ass of france and russia. two very powerful countries....but he didnt invade small ass switzerland. yes,it is multiple political reasons but one of the main reason is that the citizens were very well armed and knew how to sharpshoot. Yet the population is not crazy with murders and homicides. because of the mentality and patriotic duty.

    we can even look at china....they have more deaths than switzerland and they are not allowed to have guns. their gov't put a stop to that 🤬 and the population feels oppressed. so even without guns, a country can be headed towards chaos.

    we need to understand why people in the states need to feel powerful and feel they are invisible when they have a gun.

    don't ban the weapons, improve the process to buy weapons. just because you are not a criminal doesnt mean you wont become one when you get a weapon because you already have the criminal mentality.

    @Plutarch
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes - Plutarch
    My opponent offers interesting examples of several countries other than the U.S. in order to make his points. In response, I want to make two main points.

    1. I want to first offer counterclaims to two of my opponent’s examples.

    A. First, My opponent says that China, despite having tight gun control laws, has more gun deaths than Switzerland, which has more relaxed gun laws. If this is true, then I would argue that that is only the case because of China’s huge population. China has the largest population in the world, and Switzerland, as my opponent has pointed out, is a small country with a small population. I’m living with a roommate from China, and long before this debate, he told me that gun deaths in China are very rare. I believe him, and it only seems logical since guns are kept out of the hands of the population, though I’m specifically talking about mainland China. Hong Kong might be a different story.

    B. Second, my opponent says that 🤬 didn’t attack Switzerland because the Swiss were all strapped. I would argue that that’s partially true. 🤬 hated Switzerland and had plans (look up Operation Tannenbaum) to invade Switzerland and even surrounded the nation at one point. I don’t think that he was scared of Switzerland. Germany would’ve ran through Switzerland. I think that he had too much on his plate dealing with the Allies, and Switzerland wasn’t worth it.

    2. I want to argue that America is a distinctively violent country with a distinctively violent history that makes them incomparable to any other country. I can agree with my opponent when he makes the point that guns don’t 🤬 people but people 🤬 people. Likewise, I agree with my opponent when he says that the U.S. is crazy. For instance, we have a ridiculously high amount of violent crimes, gun murders, and prison populations when compared to other developed countries. But this is the exactly the reason why we should ban automatic rifles and military-style machine guns. My opponent has placed too much hope in the American people.

    The U.S. is a nation that is divided infinitely according to race, ethnicity, culture, country of origin/nationality, class, politics, etc. Unlike Switzerland and China, we have an incredible diverse population. There will always be anarchy because so many different groups have so many different versions of what the government should be like. Permitting military style machine guns only arms these different groups and turns them into militias that will not only declare war on the government but will declare war on themselves. Think of how devastating the wars between the paramilitaries were during the Troubles in Ireland. And guess who suffered the most? About 2000 people were killed, and about 90% of the deaths were civilian deaths! Why turn the U.S. into another Middle East?

    Never mind gang members, mentally ill people, hitmen, etc. It’s the Alex Jones types, the radical Islamic terrorists, the Waco types, and them crazy anti-government white boy rednecks you gotta worry about. These people become “freedom fighters” or mercenaries (what happens when ex-soldiers and military trained people sell their services to paying customers? Just ask Mexico.) once you tell them that they can legally obtain a, say, AK-47 (that’s 100 rounds per minute). I don’t need to tell you how destructive one or two people with automatic rifles can be: Look up the North Hollywood Shootout, the Aurora shooting, the Batman shooting, etc. The government had to roll out tanks in the streets to take down the Boston bombers. Now imagine if each of these guys belonged to a militia turned paramilitary whose members numbered in the thousands?

    A nationwide ban on military style machine guns would be the only thing holding this country together.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No - pralims
    a few quick fact...switzerland is very diverse....a majority of the population is expats. also the country is in close proximity to war torn serbia and bosnia..remember them. but being that close to ethnic cleansing didnt cross its borders.

    second the flood of foreigners doesnt have anything to do with the crime rates. most of the crime in this country are done by poor uneducated blacks and whites and scary ass whites who want a reason to 🤬 blacks. the fact of the matter is....you can give anything to anybody if you educate them.
    most of this population is made to be scared of everything are are even will to give up certain freedoms for protection while others want to take matter in there own hands.

    read any newspaper or watch TV....blacks are portrayed in negative manner, as well as muslims. its brainwashing. it not guns that make people believe in the boogeyman.

    most people in america see people as black first then america with africa ties. and they are afraid of that. when you travel the world...people see you as American first...than black and can separate from african unless you are african.

    bottom line is....america is a very powerful country that frightens other countries with there weapons of mass destruction. yet, it's population is being steered towards being scared of the rest of the world that is not whitewashed. and that increases military numbers. all because the population is not properly educated and taught to respect life.

    everything turns into them verses us, so go buy guns an protect yourself mentality.

    once we change that level of fear....we will be fine