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Question: Can you WILLINGLY deny the deity of Jesus Christ and still be saved?

DoUwant2go2Heaven
DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
The deity of Jesus Christ has been a topic of discussion since He came into the world and His own received Him not. One just has to read the gospel of John to see that the unbelieving Jews of Jesus day, condemned Jesus Christ for claiming to be 🤬 , even though He was a man. Here goes a few excerpts:

1. Jews wanted to 🤬 Jesus because He made Himself equal to 🤬

"16So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18For this reason they tried all the more to 🤬 him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling 🤬 his own Father, making himself equal with 🤬 ."
John 5:16-18

2. Jews wanted to 🤬 Jesus because He claimed to be 🤬

"30I and the Father are one.” 31Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be 🤬 .”
John 10:30-33

3. Jews wanted to 🤬 Jesus because He used the very name that 🤬 used when He revealed Himself to Moses in the burning bush

"58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds." John 8:58-59

Here goes the burning bush passage, where 🤬 identifies Himself as "I AM"

"🤬 said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
Exodus 3:14


So we see on 3 different occasions in the book of John that the Jews knew exactly what Jesus Christ was claiming to be. He was claiming to be 🤬 in human flesh and the Jews considered it blasphemy, thus they repeatedly tried to stone Him. Ultimately they would condemn Him to die on a cross. But praise be to 🤬 that it was all in His sovereign plan for it to happen. Hallelujah!

But I ask you IC brethren and sister does salvation depend upon recognizing who Jesus Christ truly is, which is 🤬 in the flesh? Or can one still be saved, even though they WILLINGLY deny the deity of Jesus Christ, but yet they still have faith that He is the Savior?
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Comments

  • NostalgiaBAB
    NostalgiaBAB Members Posts: 23
    Agnostic here, but I could never figure out why someone who behaved in a manner approved by 🤬 but didn't believe in him or Jesus Christ would be denied entry into heaven. It seems like such a small sin compared to the ones that could inflict harm on those around you.

    Note that this does not condone the treatment Jesus received from the Jews, which would be sinful regardless of whether Jesus was divine or not.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agnostic here, but I could never figure out why someone who behaved in a manner approved by 🤬 but didn't believe in him or Jesus Christ would be denied entry into heaven. It seems like such a small sin compared to the ones that could inflict harm on those around you.

    Note that this does not condone the treatment Jesus received from the Jews, which would be sinful regardless of whether Jesus was divine or not.

    Have you considered the price 🤬 paid to redeem mankind my friend?
  • MARIO_DRO
    MARIO_DRO Members Posts: 14,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK...

    LET ME EXPLAIN..

    I BELIEVE IN 🤬 , JESUS (THE SON) AND THE HOLY SPIRIT

    IF U OR ANYONE READS THE BIBLE.. THERE ARE SCRIPTURES THAT PROVIDE PROOF THAT 🤬 AND JESUS ARE THE SAME.. AND AT THE SAME TIME, THAT THEY ARE NOT...

    1... FATHER FATHER, WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME... IF THEY ARE ALL THE SAME.. WHO IS 🤬 'S FATHER?

    2. WHO DID JESUS PRAY TO WHILE ON EARTH?..

    3. FATHER FORGIVE THEM, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO?

    4. FATHER, PLS LET THIS CUP PASS FROM ME....



    I CAN GO ON AND ON ON WHY ME AND OR OTHER THINK THAT 🤬 AND JESUS ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON...

    THAT DOESNT TAKE AWAY THE FACT THAT I BELIEVE THAT 🤬 SENT HIS SON TO DIE FOR OUR SINS..

    ITS JUST HARD TO GRASP THE CONCEPT WITH A HUMAN MIND..

  • MARIO_DRO
    MARIO_DRO Members Posts: 14,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS?

    IF THIS IS WHAT IT IS, THEN I CAN COME INTO BETTER GRIPS WITH THE EXPLANATION OF THE WHOLE THING

    2lnzls8.png
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK...

    LET ME EXPLAIN..

    I BELIEVE IN 🤬 , JESUS (THE SON) AND THE HOLY SPIRIT

    IF U OR ANYONE READS THE BIBLE.. THERE ARE SCRIPTURES THAT PROVIDE PROOF THAT 🤬 AND JESUS ARE THE SAME.. AND AT THE SAME TIME, THAT THEY ARE NOT...

    1... FATHER FATHER, WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME... IF THEY ARE ALL THE SAME.. WHO IS 🤬 'S FATHER?

    2. WHO DID JESUS PRAY TO WHILE ON EARTH?..

    3. FATHER FORGIVE THEM, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO?

    4. FATHER, PLS LET THIS CUP PASS FROM ME....



    I CAN GO ON AND ON ON WHY ME AND OR OTHER THINK THAT 🤬 AND JESUS ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON...

    THAT DOESNT TAKE AWAY THE FACT THAT I BELIEVE THAT 🤬 SENT HIS SON TO DIE FOR OUR SINS..

    ITS JUST HARD TO GRASP THE CONCEPT WITH A HUMAN MIND..

    The trinity can't be comprehended by our finite human minds, 🤬 only asks that we believe! Faith is what saves, not logic. If we could understand 🤬 fully and comprehend His eternal majesty, why would we serve Him? 🤬 is beyond us. His ways are not our ways, neither are His thoughts our thoughts. As far as the heavens are above the earth so are His ways and His thoughts compared to ours.

    What we can understand is that Jesus Christ was fully 🤬 and fully man at the same time. How is that possible? Well with 🤬 ALL things are possible. And in the scriptures we see Jesus demonstrate both His deity as well as His humanity. We see that Jesus raised the dead, forgave sins, performed miracles, accepted worship, never sinned etc. All those signs point to His deity. But at the same time we see that Jesus was also a man. He hungered, he thirst, he cried, he slept, he was tempted, and he humbled himself by being in total submission to the will of the Father. That is why He cried out to the Father. Jesus Christ didn't come to exercise His own will as 🤬 , but He submitted Himself to the Fathers will in order to provide and leave an example for other human beings to follow.

    Jesus Christ was fully man and yet fully 🤬 . But in order to truly live as a man, He gave up the right to exercise His own will as 🤬 ; instead He was subject to the Fathers will. Which is how mankind was designed to live from the beginning. We must subject our wills to the Fathers will, and Jesus Christ demonstrated how mankind was designed to live by fulfilling ALL the law and never sinning.

    I accept these things by faith because that is what the scripture teaches. I can't rationally or logically explain how 🤬 can exist as 3 separate persons but yet still be 1. Nor can I explain how 🤬 had no beginning and will have no end. Nor can I explain how 🤬 created the universe with the word of His mouth. These things are unexplainable by human reason. But 🤬 doesn't expect us to explain those things, all He asks is that we trust Him by believing in Him. And that is what I do. I believe the word of 🤬 totally, fully, and truly! Amen. That is what saves. That is saving faith! Do you believe 🤬 ? That is the question. Not do you understand the mind, will, counsel, and actions of 🤬 ? Because no man can understand those things. 🤬 is infinite and we are finite. Amen.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS?

    IF THIS IS WHAT IT IS, THEN I CAN COME INTO BETTER GRIPS WITH THE EXPLANATION OF THE WHOLE THING

    2lnzls8.png

    Yes I believe that diagram. It's the trinity.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 On the shoulders of Giants and Elders in history UniverseMembers Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basically it's three personas of individual? Like one can be at three different places at once. That's explained in string theory.
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    This reminds me of the Matrix movie where there is more agent Smiths.
  • whar
    whar Members Posts: 347 ✭✭✭
    " Can you WILLINGLY deny the deity of Jesus Christ and still be saved?"

    Absolutely, just ask a muslim iman or jewish rabbi.
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost...

    Why is there no feminine principle in this but when the 🤬 man incarnates on earth he has to be birthed by a woman? What happen to as above as so below?
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    whar wrote: »
    " Can you WILLINGLY deny the deity of Jesus Christ and still be saved?"

    Absolutely, just ask a muslim iman or jewish rabbi.

    Ahhhhh....My friend whar! How you been buddy. The LORD is still tugging at your heart I see. Seek Him while He may be found! Call upon Him while He is near! He loves you my friend. Are you willing to come to the LORD Jesus Christ and receive eternal life and forgiveness of your sins today?
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    beenwize wrote: »
    Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost...

    Why is there no feminine principle in this but when the 🤬 man incarnates on earth he has to be birthed by a woman? What happen to as above as so below?

    What's your point?
  • Mike.
    Mike. Members Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
    he saves everyone in the end.....
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    he saves everyone in the end.....

    Please explain your position my friend.
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    [quote="b
    eenwize;6702638"]Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost...

    Why is there no feminine principle in this but when the 🤬 man incarnates on earth he has to be birthed by a woman? What happen to as above as so below?

    What's your point?[/quote]

    My point is your ignorance to that fact. did you run out of scripture to quote?
  • Mike.
    Mike. Members Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
    he saves everyone in the end.....

    Please explain your position my friend.
    🤬 wont let anyone actually suffer an eternal punishment in some lake of fire...he saves us all
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    beenwize wrote: »
    [quote="b
    eenwize;6702638"]Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost...

    Why is there no feminine principle in this but when the 🤬 man incarnates on earth he has to be birthed by a woman? What happen to as above as so below?

    What's your point?

    My point is your ignorance to that fact. did you run out of scripture to quote?[/quote]
    You made no point. You just rambled about foolishness, as usual
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    he saves everyone in the end.....

    Please explain your position my friend.
    🤬 wont let anyone actually suffer an eternal punishment in some lake of fire...he saves us all

    Even Judas? The beast? The false prophet? And the devil?

    Please post scripture to substantiate your claim.
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    🤬 incarnates on earth through a female, but we have Father Son and Holy Ghost.. No mention of a divine feminine in this.. As above as so below? Not in this case and i see you have no scripture you religious fundamentalist lunatic.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    beenwize wrote: »
    🤬 incarnates on earth through a female, but we have Father Son and Holy Ghost.. No mention of a divine feminine in this.. As above as so below? Not in this case and i see you have no scripture you religious fundamentalist lunatic.

    Like I said, you have no point.
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    [quote=
    "beenwize;6704954"]🤬 incarnates on earth through a female, but we have Father Son and Holy Ghost.. No mention of a divine feminine in this.. As above as so below? Not in this case and i see you have no scripture you religious fundamentalist lunatic.

    Like I said, you have no point. [/quote]

    If you claim that Jesus is 🤬 and he was inside of a 🤬 woman at birth and sucking her breast milk and getting his diapers changed by her I have a very big point thats been valid since 2,000 years ago.
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    beenwize wrote: »
    [quote=
    "beenwize;6704954"]🤬 incarnates on earth through a female, but we have Father Son and Holy Ghost.. No mention of a divine feminine in this.. As above as so below? Not in this case and i see you have no scripture you religious fundamentalist lunatic.

    Like I said, you have no point.

    If you claim that Jesus is 🤬 and he was inside of a 🤬 woman at birth and sucking her breast milk and getting his diapers changed by her I have a very big point thats been valid since 2,000 years ago.
    [/quote]
    Your talking about nonsense. 🤬 is a spirit. A spirit has no gender. Thus there is no such thing as a "divine feminine". your talking gibberish trying to sound smart. "As above, so below". Your ridiculous. Repent and believe the gospel. Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead to justify you! Believe on Him and be saved! Amen
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    beenwize wrote: »
    [quote=
    "beenwize;6704954"]🤬 incarnates on earth through a female, but we have Father Son and Holy Ghost.. No mention of a divine feminine in this.. As above as so below? Not in this case and i see you have no scripture you religious fundamentalist lunatic.

    Like I said, you have no point.

    If you claim that Jesus is 🤬 and he was inside of a 🤬 woman at birth and sucking her breast milk and getting his diapers changed by her I have a very big point thats been valid since 2,000 years ago.
    Your talking about nonsense. 🤬 is a spirit. A spirit has no gender. Thus there is no such thing as a "divine feminine". your talking gibberish trying to sound smart. "As above, so below". Your ridiculous. Repent and believe the gospel. Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead to justify you! Believe on Him and be saved! Amen
    [/quote]

    In that case why are you calling it Father Son and Holy ghost and not Mother Son And holy ghost?
  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatMembers Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    beenwize wrote: »
    beenwize wrote: »
    [quote=
    "beenwize;6704954"]🤬 incarnates on earth through a female, but we have Father Son and Holy Ghost.. No mention of a divine feminine in this.. As above as so below? Not in this case and i see you have no scripture you religious fundamentalist lunatic.

    Like I said, you have no point.

    If you claim that Jesus is 🤬 and he was inside of a 🤬 woman at birth and sucking her breast milk and getting his diapers changed by her I have a very big point thats been valid since 2,000 years ago.
    Your talking about nonsense. 🤬 is a spirit. A spirit has no gender. Thus there is no such thing as a "divine feminine". your talking gibberish trying to sound smart. "As above, so below". Your ridiculous. Repent and believe the gospel. Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead to justify you! Believe on Him and be saved! Amen

    In that case why are you calling it Father Son and Holy ghost and not Mother Son And holy ghost?
    [/quote]

    🤬 revealed Himself as such. That is why.
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
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