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Victor Cruz vs Desean Jackson

Heavy In The Game
Heavy In The Game got the discipline of a worker and the passion of a bossMembers Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 2014 in From the Cheap Seats






who's the better wide receiver/player and who would you rather have?

Victor Cruz vs Desean Jackson 47 votes

Victor Cruz
53%
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Desean Jackson
46%
S2J5th Letterinfamous114detcatinvalord nemesisthe ghostbigduece69JusDre313vagrant-718CJlamontbdcits....JOHN Bcoop9889Mister B.Billy_PonchoYoung GunnerVader_F_KennedyshiekyParallelInglewood_B 22 votes
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Comments

  • Heavy In The Game
    Heavy In The Game got the discipline of a worker and the passion of a boss Members Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    yall already know who I'm voting for............

    2uqjf43.jpg
  • S2J
    S2J Members Posts: 28,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Desean Jackson
    Victor Cruz has better hands, runs better routes, maybe better after the catch.

    But Desean's type of speed opens up the entire offense. Even as a decoy. You HAVE to keep a saftey over top.

    I'll take Desean.
  • shieky
    shieky Members Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭✭
    Desean Jackson
    Obvious bias.

    I think DeSean is better in every way, with the lone exceptions being natural hands and the ability to consistently win jump ball battles. DeSean is a body catcher, but that seems to work for him until he needs to highpoint a ball.

    Who is gunna be the first person to post stats? Ignoring the discrepancy in QB play since McNabb was traded.
  • nujerz84
    nujerz84 NJMembers Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    shieky wrote: »
    Obvious bias.

    I think DeSean is better in every way, with the lone exceptions being natural hands and the ability to consistently win jump ball battles. DeSean is a body catcher, but that seems to work for him until he needs to highpoint a ball.

    Who is gunna be the first person to post stats? Ignoring the discrepancy in QB play since McNabb was traded.

    It wont look good for Desean. Entering this past season no one had more catches, receiving yards and receiving TD heading into the 2013 season than Victor Cruz.
  • dalyricalbandit
    dalyricalbandit Co-Owner Of AllhipHop.com, Super Moderator, Administrator, Moderator Members, Moderators Posts: 67,918 Regulator
    Victor Cruz
    Salsa coño!
  • greenwood1921
    greenwood1921 Members Posts: 47,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Easy. Desean Jackson.

    From a GM's perspective, they'd both demand similar contracts but only one is a threat on special teams.

    Desean can do everything Cruz can do, but Cruz can't do everything Desean can do.

    They both got their skull-pieces shook up a few times tho, but I think Cruz's concussion history is a bit worse.
  • Built 4 cuban linx
    Built 4 cuban linx Only Christopher I acknowledge is Wallace At the 36th chamberMembers Posts: 12,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    I'm a Giant fan, so honestly I'm biased
  • detcatinva
    detcatinva Members Posts: 11,691 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Desean Jackson
    im not a fan of either, i feel both are overrated but i would rather have jackson
  • bigev240
    bigev240 Illpix O.G. Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 10,925 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    I'm a Giant fan, so honestly I'm biased

  • nujerz84
    nujerz84 NJMembers Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    Desean Jackson

    2010-2013 seasons

    232 Receptions 4049 Receiving Yards 21 Rec TD's 17.4 Per Catch

    Victor Cruz

    2010-2013 Only played 3 games his rookie season on Special Teams before going on IR and recorded no stats. so these stats done in 3 seasons

    241 Receptions 3,628 Receiving Yards 23 Rec TDs 15.0 Yards per catch

    His numbers in past 3 seasons surpass Jackson's or are close his last 4 seasons.
  • Heavy In The Game
    Heavy In The Game got the discipline of a worker and the passion of a boss Members Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    Easy. Desean Jackson.

    From a GM's perspective, they'd both demand similar contracts but only one is a threat on special teams.

    Desean can do everything Cruz can do, but Cruz can't do everything Desean can do.

    They both got their skull-pieces shook up a few times tho, but I think Cruz's concussion history is a bit worse.

    nah I disagree, the only thing Desean has on Cruz is speed/special teams that's it
    Cruz does everything else better, and I'm pretty sure Desean has more concussions than Cruz
  • greenwood1921
    greenwood1921 Members Posts: 47,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Easy. Desean Jackson.

    From a GM's perspective, they'd both demand similar contracts but only one is a threat on special teams.

    Desean can do everything Cruz can do, but Cruz can't do everything Desean can do.

    They both got their skull-pieces shook up a few times tho, but I think Cruz's concussion history is a bit worse.

    nah I disagree, the only thing Desean has on Cruz is speed/special teams that's it
    Cruz does everything else better, and I'm pretty sure Desean has more concussions than Cruz

    Desean is faster, slightly healthier, and does more. Simple as that. Neither is as good as they think they are. But Desean has literally changed games with his special teams abilities. Special teams yards and touchdowns count just as much as offensive yards so leaving them out would be ridiculous.

    And lol @ Giants fans actin like they don't know 'bout Desean. That's like Joe Frazier actin like he don't know about Ali.
  • Heavy In The Game
    Heavy In The Game got the discipline of a worker and the passion of a boss Members Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    Easy. Desean Jackson.

    From a GM's perspective, they'd both demand similar contracts but only one is a threat on special teams.

    Desean can do everything Cruz can do, but Cruz can't do everything Desean can do.

    They both got their skull-pieces shook up a few times tho, but I think Cruz's concussion history is a bit worse.

    nah I disagree, the only thing Desean has on Cruz is speed/special teams that's it
    Cruz does everything else better, and I'm pretty sure Desean has more concussions than Cruz

    Desean is faster, slightly healthier, and does more. Simple as that. Neither is as good as they think they are. But Desean has literally changed games with his special teams abilities. Special teams yards and touchdowns count just as much as offensive yards so leaving them out would be ridiculous.

    And lol @ Giants fans actin like they don't know 'bout Desean. That's like Joe Frazier actin like he don't know about Ali.

    when did we say we don't know about him?
    IDC as a receiver there's no question Cruz is better, you can have fragile Desean Jackson wit his disappearing from games self
  • aneed123
    aneed123 Members Posts: 23,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    Cruz is the better overall wr. Jackson is better overall cuz of kick returns.
  • coop9889
    coop9889 Members Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Desean Jackson
    A LOT of Cruz's big catches are him simply getting behind the coverage with speed and Eli launching it. Tell me that ain't Jackson's specialty. As a receiver it's a coin toss honestly. But overall impact as a player, it's Desean hands down like greenwood said.

    But with the Giants on a decline and the Eagles on the upswing, I'd say Desean is gonna be > Cruz this season and probably next.
  • Heavy In The Game
    Heavy In The Game got the discipline of a worker and the passion of a boss Members Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    Desean Jackson

    2010-2013 seasons

    232 Receptions 4049 Receiving Yards 21 Rec TD's 17.4 Per Catch

    Victor Cruz

    2010-2013 Only played 3 games his rookie season on Special Teams before going on IR and recorded no stats. so these stats done in 3 seasons

    241 Receptions 3,628 Receiving Yards 23 Rec TDs 15.0 Yards per catch

    His numbers in past 3 seasons surpass Jackson's or are close his last 4 seasons.

    slept on post, props

    anyways by yall logic we should take Desean over AJ Green or Calvin cuz they don't play special teams smh
    look at the best receivers in the league, most of them don't play special teams
    I guess Harvin and D Jackson are the best wrs *shrugs*
  • nujerz84
    nujerz84 NJMembers Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    coop9889 wrote: »
    A LOT of Cruz's big catches are him simply getting behind the coverage with speed and Eli launching it. Tell me that ain't Jackson's specialty. As a receiver it's a coin toss honestly. But overall impact as a player, it's Desean hands down like greenwood said.
    .

    Love folks talk out they ass exposing the fact they don't know 🤬 ..







  • coop9889
    coop9889 Members Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Desean Jackson
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    Love folks talk out they ass exposing the fact they don't know 🤬 ..

    Yet your fourth video is an exact example of what I was talking about.

    And anybody can post youtube vids. We can go back and forth if you wanna.





    So now we are at 3-3.

    Try again.
  • nujerz84
    nujerz84 NJMembers Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    The 4th video showed 3 TD's so your nit picking the first Touchdown ignoring the other 2 in that video is comical.

    Lol you posting a Pre Season Game how about you try again.
  • coop9889
    coop9889 Members Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Desean Jackson
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    The 4th video showed 3 TD's so your nit picking the first Touchdown ignoring the other 2 in that video is comical.

    Lol you posting a Pre Season Game how about you try again.

    Preseason? Oh ok so the starters weren't in the game at that point? That wasnt Polumalu chasing him? Word.

    The fact you even post a video that supports my argument in any way is what's really comical.


    Point is the gap between the two receiver's skill is small and can be argued in either direction. Jackson's impact on special teams overrides that gap.
  • nujerz84
    nujerz84 NJMembers Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    coop9889 wrote: »
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    The 4th video showed 3 TD's so your nit picking the first Touchdown ignoring the other 2 in that video is comical.

    Lol you posting a Pre Season Game how about you try again.

    Preseason? Oh ok so the starters weren't in the game at that point? That wasnt Polumalu chasing him? Word.

    The fact you even post a video that supports my argument in any way is what's really comical.


    Point is the gap between the two receiver's skill is small and can be argued in either direction. Jackson's impact on special teams overrides that gap.


    I already know you knew jack 🤬 about football from the various 🤬 posts you make thruout the season, but the fact you take anything anything from a Pre Season game let alone the First Pre Season Game and not the 3rd shows how much of an idiot you are.

    Cruz is better across the board as WR never mind the stats that prove it, the fact he works the slot and goes over the middle something DeSean Does not do. Cruz is better with YAC and just as good as deep threat as Jackson, Cruz is a complete WR Jackson isn't nor is Cruz injury prone or known to throw 🤬 fits and create locker room issues.

    Only thing Jackson does better is special teams. By logic Harvin is great WR too right.

    But you're a Cowboys fan you 🤬 aren't the smartest folks on the planet.
  • coop9889
    coop9889 Members Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Desean Jackson
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    Cruz is better across the board as WR never mind the stats that prove it, the fact he works the slot and goes over the middle something DeSean Does not do.



    The latter half of the video shows Desean talking about being used in the slot under Chip. Interesting how he can do that... seeing as he NEVER lines up in the slot according to you.

    Chart showing his usage in the slot under Reid:

    - - - - Slot % Slot Target % Catches Yards YPR
    2008 19.8% 22.0% 17 333 19.6
    2009 22.6% 26.1% 19 355 18.7
    2010 16.4% 25.3% 13 357 27.5
    2011 16.5% 22.2% 12 197 16.4
    2012 17.3% 15.6% 9 179 19.9

    In Jackson’s second season, he lined up in the slot 22.6 percent of the time. In 2010, he averaged an absurd 27.5 yards per catch while playing inside.

    Next.
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    Cruz is better with YAC

    Oh? Based off of...?

    I have seen amazing plays after the catch from both of them.

    Yet for the sake of argument and 🤬 on you I can throw some stats out to disprove that.

    This season, average YAC: DJ - 5.65 VC - 3.61
    Last year: DJ - 5.42 VC - 3.86

    Dispute that.
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    and just as good as deep threat as Jackson,
    Seeing as how Jackson is faster, and the number one important aspect of a deep threat is speed, ehhh... give me DJ.
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    Cruz is a complete WR Jackson isn't

    Elaborate, because your idea of backing up your claims is subpar at best.
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    nor is Cruz injury prone

    Missing half a season due to a hamstring and currently undergoing surgery, he's had some problems.
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    Only thing Jackson does better is special teams. By logic Harvin is great WR too right.

    As if special teams isn't a big part of the game. And yes, if Harvin could stay healthy he'd be one of the most dangerous PLAYERS (not receivers) in the game. A better Desean Jackson.



    You aren't close to my level, but you can keep trying if you want to.
  • nujerz84
    nujerz84 NJMembers Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Victor Cruz
    coop9889 wrote: »
    Cruz is better across the board as WR never mind the stats that prove it, the fact he works the slot and goes over the middle something DeSean Does not do.



    The latter half of the video shows Desean talking about being used in the slot under Chip. Interesting how he can do that... seeing as he NEVER lines up in the slot according to you.

    Chart showing his usage in the slot under Reid:

    - - - - Slot % Slot Target % Catches Yards YPR
    2008 19.8% 22.0% 17 333 19.6
    2009 22.6% 26.1% 19 355 18.7
    2010 16.4% 25.3% 13 357 27.5
    2011 16.5% 22.2% 12 197 16.4
    2012 17.3% 15.6% 9 179 19.9

    In Jackson’s second season, he lined up in the slot 22.6 percent of the time. In 2010, he averaged an absurd 27.5 yards per catch while playing inside.

    Next.


    Since you like to nitpick to fit your viewpoint I will do the same he lines up on avg about 18% in the slot and 82% he out on the flank.. He barely used in the slot that one step above of never but if you want to play semantics over my use of hyperbole fine.


    coop9889 wrote: »
    Oh? Based off of...?

    I have seen amazing plays after the catch from both of them.

    Yet for the sake of argument and 🤬 on you I can throw some stats out to disprove that.

    This season, average YAC: DJ - 5.65 VC - 3.61
    Last year: DJ - 5.42 VC - 3.86

    Dispute that.
    coop9889 wrote: »
    Seeing as how Jackson is faster, and the number one important aspect of a deep threat is speed, ehhh... give me DJ.


    This will address both points the numbers in YAC in are in DJ favor last season because Cruz has more Receptions than Jackson.

    In 2011 Cruz YAC catch was better than Jackson you left that part out.

    Since you want to pull out stats not only Victor Cruz is a bigger threat in the passing game than Jackson is he already has 23 Career Rec touchdowns compared to 32 Career Rec Touchdowns despite Jackson having a 3 year head start, he has more big play receptions and more receptions that lead to first downs.

    2011 Season
    Victor Cruz 25 rec 20 yards or more 9 rec 40 yards and more 59 catches leading to First Down

    Desean Jackson 15 rec 20 yards 5 rec 40 yards 39 Caches leading to First Down


    2012 Season

    Victor Cruz 12 rec 20 yards or more 3 rec 40 yards or more 52 catches leading to First Down

    Desean Jackson 9 rec 20 yards or more 2 rec 40 yards or more 30 catches leading to First Down



    2013 Jackson was better but if you want dismiss Cruz better numbers in 2011 and 2012 due to QB play...
    then the same should be done for this season as Eli Manning was arguably the worst Starting QB in the NFL.

    coop9889 wrote: »
    Elaborate, because your idea of backing up your claims is subpar at best.


    I already have, the overall numbers Cruz put up in the 3 year span compared to Jackson last 4 seasons Cruz are better.. if you wanted to account for Rec TD Cruz has 23 rec TD compared to Jackson 15 Rec TDs.

    coop9889 wrote: »
    Missing half a season due to a hamstring and currently undergoing surgery, he's had some problems.


    It was a roster move that forced him to be placed on IR. It was done so quick that the NFL even had to investigate why he was placed on IR in the first place...since he was listed as probable the week he went on IR. Also if the Giants Season meant anything this year Cruz could have finished the season out and done the scope in the offseason.

    Desean Jackson has already had multiple concussions and missed the last 5 games of another season due to broken ribs.

    Consider the build of each player and the nature of injuries... Jackson is more worrisome and injury prone than Cruz.

    coop9889 wrote: »
    As if special teams isn't a big part of the game. And yes, if Harvin could stay healthy he'd be one of the most dangerous PLAYERS (not receivers) in the game. A better Desean Jackson.



    You aren't close to my level, but you can keep trying if you want to.

    Which I give Jackson the edge to is special teams...as a Receiver Cruz is better bigger play threat and more consistent. Over the past 2 seasons Heading into the 2013 season Cruz lead the entire NFL in Receptions, Receiving Yards and Rec touchdowns.

    Try again.
  • A$AP_A$TON
    A$AP_A$TON 30 Year Old Version Members Posts: 11,691 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Victor Cruz
    Desean is aite tho.
  • coop9889
    coop9889 Members Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Desean Jackson
    nujerz84 wrote: »
    Since you like to nitpick to fit your viewpoint
    Words of a defeated man scrambling. In a debate choose your words carefully. Big difference between never and rarely. And 1/5 of the time isn't never.

    nujerz84 wrote: »
    This will address both points the numbers in YAC in are in DJ favor last season because Cruz has more Receptions than Jackson.
    Awww man. This just makes you look stupid. Receptions last year: Desean - 82 Cruz - 73. You better fact check before you ether yourself.

    nujerz84 wrote: »
    In 2011 Cruz YAC catch was better than Jackson you left that part out.
    So that means out of the last 3 years Jackson's YAC was better in 2, Cruz's was better in 1.
    Advantage: Desean.

    nujerz84 wrote: »
    he has more big play receptions and more receptions that lead to first downs.
    You were on a roll until you just started spewing out nonsense.

    I'm sure we agree a catch of 20+ yards is a "big play", no?

    (Try to keep up with me. I know your math skills are elementary. I'll explain as best I can)

    2013
    Desean was second in the league in receptions of 20+ yards with 25. (82 catches-126targets)
    Cruz had 10. (73-123)
    (Cruz played 2 less games)

    2012
    Cruz had 12 plays of 20+ yards (on 86 catches & 143 targets) to Desean's 9 (on 45 receptions on 85 targets).
    (Jackson played 5 less games)

    2011
    Cruz had 25 20+ plays (82-131) to Desean's 15. (58-104)
    (Jackson played 1 less game)

    I'm not going to even count 2008-2010 where Desean was 3rd, 8th and 9th in the league in 20+ yard catches.

    Total those up and in the last three years you have:
    Desean with 49 catches of 20+ yards from 185 catches on 315 targets. Do the math and 26% of Desean's catches have gone for 20+ yards.
    Cruz had 47 catches of 20+ yards from 241 catches on 397 targets. 19.5% of his catches were for 20 yards or more.

    Yet again, advantage: Desean.

    As far as the first downs, Cruz has led his team in first downs and targets every year except once, and that one year he had only a few less than Bradshaw. Cruz is easily the biggest threat on the team, Eli's favorite target, and the Giants consistently had some of the worst running games over the past few years.

    On the other side, McCoy was the first down leader consistently and it wasn't even close. McCoy LED THE LEAGUE in first downs 2 of the last 3 years and the year he didn't he was injured. McCoy > BOTH of these receivers, and Eli targets Cruz WAY more than w/e Eagles QB targets Jackson. On 3rd down Giants throw to Cruz all day. Eagles look to McCoy.

    nujerz84 wrote: »
    I already have, the overall numbers Cruz put up in the 3 year span compared to Jackson last 4 seasons Cruz are better.. if you wanted to account for Rec TD Cruz has 23 rec TD compared to Jackson 15 Rec TDs.
    During this entire post of 🤬 on you I've been handicapping myself by only referring to Desean's last 3 years. Two of which were his worst statistically. Put Desean's best year up he accounted for 12 touchdowns and 1734 yards. Which is better than any of Cruz's seasons. And Jackson did it in 15 games.

    nujerz84 wrote: »
    .............
    Consider the build of each player and the nature of injuries... Jackson is more worrisome and injury prone than Cruz.
    Never did I ever claim Desean to NOT be injury prone, yet here you are debating as if I said that. I knew you would. I was simply countering your statement of "Cruz isn't injury prone". He's missed a sizable amount of games.

    nujerz84 wrote: »
    Which I give Jackson the edge to is special teams...as a Receiver Cruz is better bigger play threat and more consistent. Over the past 2 seasons Heading into the 2013 season Cruz lead the entire NFL in Receptions, Receiving Yards and Rec touchdowns.

    lmao-wait-what-o.gif

    wait..



    wait...


    LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


    🤬 you serious?

    You're flat out WRONG, AGAIN.

    2011-2012
    Cruz: 168 catches 2628 yards 19 TD
    Calvin: 218 catches 3645 yards 21 TD
    Welker: 240 catches 2923 yards 15 TD
    Marshall: 199 catches 2722 yards 17 TD

    Hell Gronk had 28 TDs.

    These are just a few of the 🤬 that BEASTED Cruz during that span. I got tired of adding 🤬 up but there's more.

    🤬 JASON WITTEN had more catches than Cruz in that span.
    DEZ BRYANT had more TDs. Even a "stupid cowboys fan" can tell you that.

    And lol @ using stats "heading into the 2013 season" as if the 2013 isn't over and done with. Trying to conveniently hide Cruz's worst statistical season, eh?



    🤬 you've spit factually incorrect 🤬 so many times in that post I take you even less seriously than I did when we started.

    🤬 pullin numbers outta nowhere.

    Get your lame ass outta here. You can't debate with me. You're clearly a rookie in this 🤬 .

    You're done.