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Truth About Mass Incarceration In The United States

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Comments

  • High RevolutionaryHigh Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So y'all saying private prisons is the #1 reason America's incarceration rate is so high or nah?
  • High RevolutionaryHigh Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Private prisons became profitable as a result of the US's expanding prison population after the war on drugs.

    People wouldn't even have thought to start privatizing prisons in the US if there wasn't already a substantial prison population to work with.

    And again I'm not saying private prisons don't contribute but let's not lose sight of the root causes.
  • Meta_ConsciousMeta_Conscious Hypocrite The BashmentMembers Posts: 26,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    well... Im not saying that...
  • The IconoclastThe Iconoclast harbinger of existential angst Members Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @High_Revolutionary
    With regards to the war on drugs - obviously started by Nixon and bloodthirstily amplified by Reagan - being a root cause for the incarceration rate spike, I agree and I don't think anyone in this thread suggested otherwise.

    However...
    I got the point. Private prisons often gives judges/government officials incentives to give out harsher sentences thus driving up incarceration. It's a popular liberal talking point.

    fixed that for ya

    i have nothing against contracting some services to certain private organizations and this isn't just some liberal assault on capitalism, it's just common sense...

    if a prison is run for profit then it will be in the best interest of the business to keep prisoners in the system for as long as possible. this will always be at odds with the traditional goals of the criminal justice system, which is to rehabilitate prisoners

    and considering it's human nature to place self interest above all other concern, privatizing prisons fosters an environment where human greed can be exploited for the gain of a select few at the expense of many, especially the poor and blks

    bad policy, the war on drugs, racism, criminalization of poverty, etc has imprisoned many but let's not act like the lobbyists from the private prison industry aren't using their money and influence to curtail prison reform efforts as well as lobbying to keep/put even more people behind bars

    don't be disingenuous

    She hit the nail on the head.

    Even when comparatively speaking, attempting to downplay the privatization of prisons comes off as incredibly spurious.

    If people truly think a lucrative industry with investors among the top 1% in wealth, have rehabilitation and recidivism at the forefront of their minds...then they're just deliberately ascribing altruism to these guys, because of ulterior motives.

    The cash flow speaks for itself: http://www.vice.com/read/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-industrial-complex
  • desertrain10desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Private prisons became profitable as a result of the US's expanding prison population after the war on drugs.

    People wouldn't even have thought to start privatizing prisons in the US if there wasn't already a substantial prison population to work with.

    And again I'm not saying private prisons don't contribute but let's not lose sight of the root causes.

    Right...

    Lets end the war on drugs, do away with mandatory minimum sentencing laws, etc. but how with all the unions and now the big money involved?

    Seems like they do away will one law only to replace it with 5 others
  • High RevolutionaryHigh Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    The war on drugs didn't end with Reagan's presidency. It's fueling the prison industrial complex to this day.

    Put it like this, what do you think would lower the incarceration rate more in America, reformed drug laws or eliminating private prisons?
  • High RevolutionaryHigh Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    Private prisons became profitable as a result of the US's expanding prison population after the war on drugs.

    People wouldn't even have thought to start privatizing prisons in the US if there wasn't already a substantial prison population to work with.

    And again I'm not saying private prisons don't contribute but let's not lose sight of the root causes.

    Right...

    Lets end the war on drugs, do away with mandatory minimum sentencing laws, etc. but how with all the unions and now the big money involved?

    Seems like they do away will one law only to replace it with 5 others

    That's cause the people who are elected to represent us don't have our best interests at heart, and that's the real problem.

    But people think more laws more social programs, more red tape will solve the problem when it actually exacerbates it.
  • The IconoclastThe Iconoclast harbinger of existential angst Members Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The war on drugs didn't end with Reagan's presidency. It's fueling the prison industrial complex to this day.

    Put it like this, what do you think would lower the incarceration rate more in America, reformed drug laws or eliminating private prisons?
    Agreed. That was the point, Reagan ushered us into the modern era of the war on drugs. No president since has really reversed the effects, nor have they really tried aside from attempting to decriminalize certain drugs in the court of public opinion aka empty political promises.

    I can't give your question a concrete answer because you're invoking a false dilemma fallacy while ignoring the complexity of that hypothetical. Reforming drug laws naturally would be easier to pull off. Unlike privatized prisons it isn't a systemic fixture in the fabric of our society, but, again it's fallacious to assume just because it's easier to reverse it absolves privatized prisons of its sinister affects on the population.

    As for which would lower the incarceration rate more, I don't know because both contain variables that affect everything and you'd have to address them first. Like for example how drastic are you reforming drug laws and what measures are you using; exactly how are you eliminating private prisons, where are the criminals going and have you chosen a system to replace it that is statistically proven to lower criminality and reduce recidivism.

  • twatgettatwatgetta Members Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So the judge is simply supplying a demand? That doesn't speak very highly of our government officials.

    And there are profit motives within the public sector as well via things like misappropriation of tax dollars which has far less stigma than it should.

    Taking out private industry isn't going to eliminate people's greed and propensity to get over.

    Welcome to the Real world, Neo.

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