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Thoughts on KENTA being signed to the wwe?

genocidecuttergenocidecutter Members Posts: 17,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
If haven't heard kenta is now official signed. I wonder I how fast there gonna bury him
«1

Comments

  • jonojono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Depends, how's his English?
    I've seen matches from dude, hes really good but he will definitely need a character and therein lies the problem.

    Will they find a character that works or will he look like a fool?
  • VIBEVIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    original gts

    but I have a feeling they'll bury him in time..

    crowd won't take to him as fast, they'll stick him w some 🤬 gimmick..

    I'm sure Trips has good 🤬 lined up for him but ultimately, Vince will 🤬 it up..
  • BangEm_Bart BangEm_Bart Members Posts: 9,503 ✭✭✭✭✭
    WWE is racist. They only promote white and samoan wrestlers. His talent would be showcased as a top teir x division or even champion in TNA. Bad move but i guess he needs the money.
  • VIBEVIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tatsu is an example...

  • BroddieBroddie just me and my bitch NYCMembers Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    After what they did with the likes of Tajiri, Taka, Funaki and Yoshi Tatsu I don't trust them creatively. Good luck to Kenta but lets be real his gimmick was already stolen in this company and given to CM Punk. So I really see them struggling with what to do creatively but I hope that doesn't end up being the case. Right now they had to save face and publicize this because they were very disappointed with the turnout at their recent Japanese live shows.
  • BroddieBroddie just me and my bitch NYCMembers Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    WWE is racist. They only promote white and samoan wrestlers. His talent would be showcased as a top teir x division or even champion in TNA. Bad move but i guess he needs the money.

    WWE is even prejudice against whites. There's no reason Sheamus has to be a drunken fighting lucky charm muthafucka just cause he's Irish. For a company that tries to front like they're progressive they sure don't know how to let go of tired old carny stereotype dependency (See also: Rusev and Lana). This is why wrestling will never appeal to an audience that isn't low brow. This is why NBC was like "Vince your audience is not worth the money. Take this lower deal or stay 🤬 when it comes to TV."
  • jonojono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Broddie wrote: »
    WWE is racist. They only promote white and samoan wrestlers. His talent would be showcased as a top teir x division or even champion in TNA. Bad move but i guess he needs the money.

    WWE is even prejudice against whites. There's no reason Sheamus has to be a drunken fighting lucky charm muthafucka just cause he's Irish. For a company that tries to front like they're progressive they sure don't know how to let go of tired old carny stereotype dependency (See also: Rusev and Lana). This is why wrestling will never appeal to an audience that isn't low brow. This is why NBC was like "Vince your audience is not worth the money. Take this lower deal or stay 🤬 when it comes to TV."

    Where in Hollywood are minorities fairly depicted as more than stereotypes? I'm pretty sure the stereotypes WWE uses are standard fare for ethnic and racial minorities.

    Considering that is true then all forms of visual entertainment are low brow because they all use the same tropes. Very seldom will you see ethnic or racial minorities getting a fair shake in movies or on TV.

    That said, I think playing up ethnicities isn't a bad thing. The problem is when these gimmicks make the performer look stupid.

    I have no complaints about Tajiri's WWE career, yeah he did the stereotypical Yakuza gimmick for awhile but for the most part he was doing what he does.

    The only real big slap in the face of Asians was Kaientai's lip synching gimmick, it was funny no doubt, but the 🤬 was racist.

    I definitely think they could go outside the box more but to be honest they scared to really go there and be different and it's because this society isn't ready for the face of wwe (and thus professional wrestling as a whole) to be Black, or Asian or an ethnic foreigner, it's that simple.
  • BroddieBroddie just me and my bitch NYCMembers Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2014
    jono wrote: »
    Broddie wrote: »
    WWE is racist. They only promote white and samoan wrestlers. His talent would be showcased as a top teir x division or even champion in TNA. Bad move but i guess he needs the money.

    WWE is even prejudice against whites. There's no reason Sheamus has to be a drunken fighting lucky charm muthafucka just cause he's Irish. For a company that tries to front like they're progressive they sure don't know how to let go of tired old carny stereotype dependency (See also: Rusev and Lana). This is why wrestling will never appeal to an audience that isn't low brow. This is why NBC was like "Vince your audience is not worth the money. Take this lower deal or stay 🤬 when it comes to TV."

    Where in Hollywood are minorities fairly depicted as more than stereotypes? I'm pretty sure the stereotypes WWE uses are standard fare for ethnic and racial minorities.

    Considering that is true then all forms of visual entertainment are low brow because they all use the same tropes. Very seldom will you see ethnic or racial minorities getting a fair shake in movies or on TV.


    "Very seldom" doesn't equal to "never" and even that is really an overstatement. This isn't the 1980's anymore or even the 1990's. This is what people like Vince McMahon just don't get. 🤬 compared to the WWE movies and TV are the 🤬 united nations when it comes to equal grounding.

    We live in an era where the number one movie in the country right now is one of the most thematic and philosophical takes on the importance of the civil rights movement in entertainment right now. We live in an era where the first transgendered person to ever get nominated for an emmy is also a double minority because she happens to be black. Where one of the top dramas on prime time network TV is headlined by a black actress.

    We live in an era where there are prime time sitcoms like The Boondocks highlighting the perspectives of black america on mainstream TV. We live in an era where an Indian woman has a hit sitcom on prime time network television. Matter of fact there are multiple sitcoms & dramas now headlined by women in general more than ever. Movies and TV as a matter of fact have been so progressive in their inclusion of minorities & women in the past decade that it helped affect getting a black man into the white house because the audience of said pop culture is less color and gender struck than their predecessors.

    Compare that to the WWE. Who is the only minority that got some decent pushes in recent memory without resorting to ethnic stereotypes? AJ Lee? and even then they still give her the misogynistic "young women are CRAAAAAAZYYY" schtick. Even then in an era where they have more women fans then ever they still treat the womens division like a red headed step child. It's known as the pissbreak division for a reason.

    You want to talk about fair shake. Why don't the give Big E his 5 count gimmick? you have people chanting 5 when he comes out at live shows. It gives him an easy open to having a chant and it's an easily accessible gimmick that will help solidify him as a powerhouse like it did down in NXT. Oh wait that would actually put him over. Nah it's better to waste him completely by having him make an ass out of himself preaching like he's a cartoon version of Al Sharpton instead right?

    Whenever people try to apologize for WWE's outdated execution of prejudice they really forget to look at where the rest of pop culture is today compared to WWE. We are in an era where people are over even accepting their traditional customs being mocked in the media (Ie: the Washington Redskins and Chief Wahoo situation). People are sick of being push overs in the media and are taking a stand and exercising their human rights.

    They're taking pop culture entertainment to task and pop culture entertainment is responding by removing the Donald Sterlings from their positions or allowing more minority filmmakers to get a shot at pitching spec scripts in hollywood. Doesn't mean institutionalized racism will die anytime soon but at least it's some form of progress. You don't see progress in WWE. Just regression.

    The whole "WWE isn't the only one on the block being an 🤬 " excuse doesn't really hold water anymore. Even the rest of pro wrestling outside of WWE has pretty much moved forward beyond many of the same old school stereotypes regarding minorities and women. Things that were commonplace in the 60's and 70's era of wrestling where the majority of the country was still white folks. Stuff that even bled over into the 80's that WWE's product still blatantly perpetrates like we haven't moved beyond that as a nation or hell even as a planet.
  • DOPEdweebzDOPEdweebz What title? www.facebook.com/DOPEdweebzMembers, Moderators, Writer Posts: 29,364 Regulator
    Broddie wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    Broddie wrote: »
    WWE is racist. They only promote white and samoan wrestlers. His talent would be showcased as a top teir x division or even champion in TNA. Bad move but i guess he needs the money.

    WWE is even prejudice against whites. There's no reason Sheamus has to be a drunken fighting lucky charm muthafucka just cause he's Irish. For a company that tries to front like they're progressive they sure don't know how to let go of tired old carny stereotype dependency (See also: Rusev and Lana). This is why wrestling will never appeal to an audience that isn't low brow. This is why NBC was like "Vince your audience is not worth the money. Take this lower deal or stay 🤬 when it comes to TV."

    Where in Hollywood are minorities fairly depicted as more than stereotypes? I'm pretty sure the stereotypes WWE uses are standard fare for ethnic and racial minorities.

    Considering that is true then all forms of visual entertainment are low brow because they all use the same tropes. Very seldom will you see ethnic or racial minorities getting a fair shake in movies or on TV.


    "Very seldom" doesn't equal to "never" and even that is really an overstatement. This isn't the 1980's anymore or even the 1990's. This is what people like Vince McMahon just don't get. 🤬 compared to the WWE movies and TV are the 🤬 united nations when it comes to equal grounding.

    We live in an era where the number one movie in the country right now is one of the most thematic and philosophical takes on the importance of the civil rights movement in entertainment right now. We live in an era where the first transgendered person to ever get nominated for an emmy is also a double minority because she happens to be black. Where one of the top dramas on prime time network TV is headlined by a black actress.

    We live in an era where there are prime time sitcoms like The Boondocks highlighting the perspectives of black america on mainstream TV. We live in an era where an Indian woman has a hit sitcom on prime time network television. Matter of fact there are multiple sitcoms & dramas now headlined by women in general more than ever. Movies and TV as a matter of fact have been so progressive in their inclusion of minorities & women in the past decade that it helped affect getting a black man into the white house because the audience of said pop culture is less color and gender struck than their predecessors.

    Compare that to the WWE. Who is the only minority that got some decent pushes in recent memory without resorting to ethnic stereotypes? AJ Lee? and even then they still give her the misogynistic "young women are CRAAAAAAZYYY" schtick. Even then in an era where they have more women fans then ever they still treat the womens division like a red headed step child. It's known as the pissbreak division for a reason.

    You want to talk about fair shake. Why don't the give Big E his 5 count gimmick? you have people chanting 5 when he comes out at live shows. It gives him an easy open to having a chant and it's an easily accessible gimmick that will help solidify him as a powerhouse like it did down in NXT. Oh wait that would actually put him over. Nah it's better to waste him completely by having him make an ass out of himself preaching like he's a cartoon version of Al Sharpton instead right?

    Whenever people try to apologize for WWE's outdated execution of prejudice they really forget to look at where the rest of pop culture is today compared to WWE. We are in an era where people are over even accepting their traditional customs being mocked in the media (Ie: the Washington Redskins and Chief Wahoo situation). People are sick of being push overs in the media and are taking a stand and exercising their human rights.

    They're taking pop culture entertainment to task and pop culture entertainment is responding by removing the Donald Sterlings from their positions or allowing more minority filmmakers to get a shot at pitching spec scripts in hollywood. Doesn't mean institutionalized racism will die anytime soon but at least it's some form of progress. You don't see progress in WWE. Just regression.

    The whole "WWE isn't the only one on the block being an 🤬 " excuse doesn't really hold water anymore. Even the rest of pro wrestling outside of WWE has pretty much moved forward beyond many of the same old school stereotypes regarding minorities and women. Things that were commonplace in the 60's and 70's era of wrestling where the majority of the country was still white folks. Stuff that even bled over into the 80's that WWE's product still blatantly perpetrates like we haven't moved beyond that as a nation or hell even as a planet.

    Bruh...
  • genocidecuttergenocidecutter Members Posts: 17,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Broddie wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    Broddie wrote: »
    WWE is racist. They only promote white and samoan wrestlers. His talent would be showcased as a top teir x division or even champion in TNA. Bad move but i guess he needs the money.

    WWE is even prejudice against whites. There's no reason Sheamus has to be a drunken fighting lucky charm muthafucka just cause he's Irish. For a company that tries to front like they're progressive they sure don't know how to let go of tired old carny stereotype dependency (See also: Rusev and Lana). This is why wrestling will never appeal to an audience that isn't low brow. This is why NBC was like "Vince your audience is not worth the money. Take this lower deal or stay 🤬 when it comes to TV."

    Where in Hollywood are minorities fairly depicted as more than stereotypes? I'm pretty sure the stereotypes WWE uses are standard fare for ethnic and racial minorities.

    Considering that is true then all forms of visual entertainment are low brow because they all use the same tropes. Very seldom will you see ethnic or racial minorities getting a fair shake in movies or on TV.


    "Very seldom" doesn't equal to "never" and even that is really an overstatement. This isn't the 1980's anymore or even the 1990's. This is what people like Vince McMahon just don't get. 🤬 compared to the WWE movies and TV are the 🤬 united nations when it comes to equal grounding.

    We live in an era where the number one movie in the country right now is one of the most thematic and philosophical takes on the importance of the civil rights movement in entertainment right now. We live in an era where the first transgendered person to ever get nominated for an emmy is also a double minority because she happens to be black. Where one of the top dramas on prime time network TV is headlined by a black actress.

    We live in an era where there are prime time sitcoms like The Boondocks highlighting the perspectives of black america on mainstream TV. We live in an era where an Indian woman has a hit sitcom on prime time network television. Matter of fact there are multiple sitcoms & dramas now headlined by women in general more than ever. Movies and TV as a matter of fact have been so progressive in their inclusion of minorities & women in the past decade that it helped affect getting a black man into the white house because the audience of said pop culture is less color and gender struck than their predecessors.

    Compare that to the WWE. Who is the only minority that got some decent pushes in recent memory without resorting to ethnic stereotypes? AJ Lee? and even then they still give her the misogynistic "young women are CRAAAAAAZYYY" schtick. Even then in an era where they have more women fans then ever they still treat the womens division like a red headed step child. It's known as the pissbreak division for a reason.

    You want to talk about fair shake. Why don't the give Big E his 5 count gimmick? you have people chanting 5 when he comes out at live shows. It gives him an easy open to having a chant and it's an easily accessible gimmick that will help solidify him as a powerhouse like it did down in NXT. Oh wait that would actually put him over. Nah it's better to waste him completely by having him make an ass out of himself preaching like he's a cartoon version of Al Sharpton instead right?

    Whenever people try to apologize for WWE's outdated execution of prejudice they really forget to look at where the rest of pop culture is today compared to WWE. We are in an era where people are over even accepting their traditional customs being mocked in the media (Ie: the Washington Redskins and Chief Wahoo situation). People are sick of being push overs in the media and are taking a stand and exercising their human rights.

    They're taking pop culture entertainment to task and pop culture entertainment is responding by removing the Donald Sterlings from their positions or allowing more minority filmmakers to get a shot at pitching spec scripts in hollywood. Doesn't mean institutionalized racism will die anytime soon but at least it's some form of progress. You don't see progress in WWE. Just regression.

    The whole "WWE isn't the only one on the block being an 🤬 " excuse doesn't really hold water anymore. Even the rest of pro wrestling outside of WWE has pretty much moved forward beyond many of the same old school stereotypes regarding minorities and women. Things that were commonplace in the 60's and 70's era of wrestling where the majority of the country was still white folks. Stuff that even bled over into the 80's that WWE's product still blatantly perpetrates like we haven't moved beyond that as a nation or hell even as a planet.

    🤬 genius
  • DOPEdweebzDOPEdweebz What title? www.facebook.com/DOPEdweebzMembers, Moderators, Writer Posts: 29,364 Regulator
    What Broddie wrote is a strong reason why Im 🤬 with TNA more as of right now. While WWE still knows how to make "stars" better, socially speaking it is primitive, idealogy wise it's stuck behind the times. As long as WWE fans are still 🤬 their product and network, they have no reason to change. Im going ti a TNA show that at least will put a African American wrestler with a legit combat background, than a company that is stuck with Cena, Orton, some new guy, cena, orton, some other guy from b4, orton, cena, another guy, cena forumla since 2003. War TNA!
  • jonojono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Broddie wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    Broddie wrote: »
    WWE is racist. They only promote white and samoan wrestlers. His talent would be showcased as a top teir x division or even champion in TNA. Bad move but i guess he needs the money.

    WWE is even prejudice against whites. There's no reason Sheamus has to be a drunken fighting lucky charm muthafucka just cause he's Irish. For a company that tries to front like they're progressive they sure don't know how to let go of tired old carny stereotype dependency (See also: Rusev and Lana). This is why wrestling will never appeal to an audience that isn't low brow. This is why NBC was like "Vince your audience is not worth the money. Take this lower deal or stay 🤬 when it comes to TV."

    Where in Hollywood are minorities fairly depicted as more than stereotypes? I'm pretty sure the stereotypes WWE uses are standard fare for ethnic and racial minorities.

    Considering that is true then all forms of visual entertainment are low brow because they all use the same tropes. Very seldom will you see ethnic or racial minorities getting a fair shake in movies or on TV.


    "Very seldom" doesn't equal to "never" and even that is really an overstatement. This isn't the 1980's anymore or even the 1990's. This is what people like Vince McMahon just don't get. 🤬 compared to the WWE movies and TV are the 🤬 united nations when it comes to equal grounding.

    We live in an era where the number one movie in the country right now is one of the most thematic and philosophical takes on the importance of the civil rights movement in entertainment right now. We live in an era where the first transgendered person to ever get nominated for an emmy is also a double minority because she happens to be black. Where one of the top dramas on prime time network TV is headlined by a black actress.

    We live in an era where +are prime time sitcoms like The Boondocks highlighting the perspectives of black america on mainstream TV. We live in an era where an Indian woman has a hit sitcom on prime time network television. Matter of fact there are multiple sitcoms & dramas now headlined by women in general more than ever. Movies and TV as a matter of fact have been so progressive in their inclusion of minorities & women in the past decade that it helped affect getting a black man into the white house because the audience of said pop culture is less color and gender struck than their predecessors.

    Compare that to the WWE. Who is the only minority that got some decent pushes in recent memory without resorting to ethnic stereotypes? AJ Lee? and even then they still give her the misogynistic "young women are CRAAAAAAZYYY" schtick. Even then in an era where they have more women fans then ever they still treat the womens division like a red headed step child. It's known as the pissbreak division for a reason.

    You want to talk about fair shake. Why don't the give Big E his 5 count gimmick? you have people chanting 5 when he comes out at live shows. It gives him an easy open to having a chant and it's an easily accessible gimmick that will help solidify him as a powerhouse like it did down in NXT. Oh wait that would actually put him over. Nah it's better to waste him completely by having him make an ass out of himself preaching like he's a cartoon version of Al Sharpton instead right?

    Whenever people try to apologize for WWE's outdated execution of prejudice they really forget to look at where the rest of pop culture is today compared to WWE. We are in an era where people are over even accepting their traditional customs being mocked in the media (Ie: the Washington Redskins and Chief Wahoo situation). People are sick of being push overs in the media and are taking a stand and exercising their human rights.

    They're taking pop culture entertainment to task and pop culture entertainment is responding by removing the Donald Sterlings from their positions or allowing more minority filmmakers to get a shot at pitching spec scripts in hollywood. Doesn't mean institutionalized racism will die anytime soon but at least it's some form of progress. You don't see progress in WWE. Just regression.

    The whole "WWE isn't the only one on the block being an 🤬 " excuse doesn't really hold water anymore. Even the rest of pro wrestling outside of WWE has pretty much moved forward beyond many of the same old school stereotypes regarding minorities and women. Things that were commonplace in the 60's and 70's era of wrestling where the majority of the country was still white folks. Stuff that even bled over into the 80's that WWE's product still blatantly perpetrates like we haven't moved beyond that as a nation or hell even as a planet.
    Scandal? Lol the black bed 🤬 for a white man is not a stereotype?

    Django Unchained, The Help, The Butler, 12 Years A Slave these are progressive? I could have sworn we had movies like those in those in the1970s.

    Women being prominently featured more on television is a good point but WWE gave the women their own show, which they promote religiously and even attempt to build storylines from and for, the basic fact is nobody cares.

    I do find it interesting that you talk about a transgendered person winning an Emmy when just a few weeks ago you were complaining that Adam Rose was "too feminine" or lightweight 🤬 or some 🤬 , which to be honest isn't far from what I think but I don't hate the gimmick because it's faggy, I don't like it because it's a stupid gimmick altogether.

    Besides as far as women's rights goes WWE had a woman actually beating men in the ring 15 years ago, you talk about transgendered rights? Goldust debuted in 1995! Just because that 🤬 doesn't go on today doesn't mean it never took place. WWE HAD real women wrestlers from 1993-1995 and nobody have a damn until they started getting naked and doing playboy covers.

    How many black action stars do you have in Hollywood? Rock and who else? How many black WWE champions have their been? Rock and .... and to be quite honest The Rock is race neutral he stands behind the mic singing Frank Sinatra and Elvis, in his movies he is always the race neutral character damn near nobody considers Rock to be black anymore.

    Was it WWE fans that chanted "Let's Go Goku" at Tanahashi during his trip to America? Is it WWE that still has the "mean girls" stereotype still going on?
    How about the country boy redneck?

    This 🤬 isn't about WWE being racist it's about TV and Americans in general being 🤬 in the head. They been doing the 🤬 you talking about but the 🤬 ain't work then and now they have no interest in doing so.
  • DOPEdweebzDOPEdweebz What title? www.facebook.com/DOPEdweebzMembers, Moderators, Writer Posts: 29,364 Regulator
    Oh we got a debate ..waiting on @Broddie‌
  • BroddieBroddie just me and my bitch NYCMembers Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jono wrote: »
    Scandal? Lol the black bed 🤬 for a white man is not a stereotype?

    When did I say that it wasn’t? My point is that you still have a black woman leading a hit prime time network tv show. It’s not like there haven’t been white wenches for white men on TV hundreds of times before.14 years ago it would’ve been a white actress in that role. A minority woman headlining an emmy nominated hit show is progress.
    Django Unchained, The Help, The Butler, 12 Years A Slave these are progressive? I could have sworn we had movies like those in those in the1970s.

    For every one of those there are 4+ movies that challenge racial or gender stereotypes. The American film and TV industry is more progressive than WWE. We’ve had stuff like Haywire, Goodbye Solo, Fruitvale Station, Million Dollar Baby, Brokeback Mountain, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Dallas Buyers Club, Crash etc. come from that industry in the last 10 years. In the last decade there has been a balance with American movies.

    Where is the balance in WWE? Is it with Alberto Del Rio playing a typical 80’s telenovela villain? Or is it with Primo and Epico being Matadors? Paige gets the championship and gets no real built. Where’s the equality on Raw or Smackdown?

    Women being prominently featured more on television is a good point but WWE gave the women their own show, which they promote religiously and even attempt to build storylines from and for, the basic fact is nobody cares.

    Nobody cares because it caters to an audience outside of the ones who watch the wrestling product. If they actually gave them storylines that were relevant to Raw and Smackdown and built up their characters by you know actually presenting them in competition and being athletes on the shows the wrestling fans watch maybe people would actually give a 🤬 .

    I do find it interesting that you talk about a transgendered person winning an Emmy when just a few weeks ago you were complaining that Adam Rose was "too feminine" or lightweight 🤬 or some 🤬 , which to be honest isn't far from what I think but I don't hate the gimmick because it's faggy, I don't like it because it's a stupid gimmick altogether.

    Apples and oranges.

    I’m pointing out progress in mainstream pop culture by pointing out an emmy nomination. I don’t give a 🤬 what people identify as be who you are. The difference between that and Adam Rose is that Adam Rose is on a TV show where men are supposed to be competing in sports competition grabbing their butts and openly flirting with them.

    Adam Rose has actually even offended 🤬 people and who could blame them for being offended. There's not more room for the whole "It’s every bad 🤬 stereotype on blatant display. It sticks out like a sore thumb on the show. If WWE were really progressive they’d book their openly 🤬 wrestler Darren Young on his own merits and give him AR’s TV time. That’s certainly more realistic and relatable to straight and 🤬 people alike. Characters like Adam Rose are regressive not progressive.
    Besides as far as women's rights goes WWE had a woman actually beating men in the ring 15 years ago, you talk about transgendered rights? Goldust debuted in 1995! Just because that 🤬 doesn't go on today doesn't mean it never took place.

    15 years ago and 19 years ago is not today. Sorry but that’s just how it is. We’re talking about 2 to 3 new generations since that point in the world today.

    WWE HAD real women wrestlers from 1993-1995 and nobody have a damn until they started getting naked and doing playboy covers.

    People did give a damn. Bull Nakano Vs. Alundra Blayze at Summerslam is still considered a GOAT match from that era by WWF fans. Maybe not WWE fans but that’s because a lot of them are 12 years old and didn’t grow up in that era. But anybody that knows their WWF history would know what that is about. Today however Vince would not allow women to steal the show on that level ever again. That’s my point. It’s regressive not progressive behavior.
    How many black action stars do you have in Hollywood? Rock and who else?

    Today?

    Denzel Washington and Will Smith, Sam Jackson, Michael Jai White. In the past? Wesley, Richard Roundtree, Sidney Poiteir. There are a lot of young black actors too getting shot in headlining action and sci-fi today like Michael B. Jordan with Creed and Fantastic Four. I don’t see any black man, Asian man or even another latino (Del Rio won’t be main event level ever again) or other minority reigning as WWE champ anytime soon. OK I’ll say that I guess the Samoan/Italian dude counts but aside from that it will be a while before you see anyone else.


    How many black WWE champions have their been? Rock and .... and

    Yep. So much for progress.

  • BroddieBroddie just me and my bitch NYCMembers Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    to be quite honest The Rock is race neutral he stands behind the mic singing Frank Sinatra and Elvis, in his movies he is always the race neutral character damn near nobody considers Rock to be black anymore.

    That is my point though ALL minorities should be given the same chance to represent who they really are like The Rock did. Not everybody acts "black" if we're talking stereotypically it doesn't meant they aren't black either. Let people be people. Minorities are too diverse to be boxed in. We need more of that in WWE today and less Xavier Woods debuting with R Truth and the Funkadactyls because they're all black and love to dance.

    I might actually like Kofi Kingston if they remove his stupid ass gimmick and let him cut loose who knows. Same with Big E. But they just don’t try. Everyone has to fit into a box.
    Was it WWE fans that chanted "Let's Go Goku" at Tanahashi during his trip to America?

    Wrestling fans. That has nothing to do with the booking. Most wrestling fans are close minded and low class. That’s kinda the point of me even mentioning NBC 🤬 on McMahon like they did. Sadly most of the audience doesn’t do enough to prove otherwise.
    Is it WWE that still has the "mean girls" stereotype still going on?

    Technically yeah; last I checked the BFF’s exist over in NXT which is a WWE offshoot. Nevertheless that doesn’t mean every girl in NXT is booked that way. I don’t fault them for it either cause they’re supposed to be heels. They all have distinct characters and personalities like in the real world. You could tell heels from face easily unlike the main roster. That’s why it’s unfortunate that the people that run NXT don’t run Raw or Smackdown but I digress.

    Same thing with the Beautiful People they are heels. They’re being 🤬 like heels have traditionally been. Just like dudes would be 🤬 if they’re supposed to be heels. That’s equality. Madison Rayne, Gail Kim, Taryn Terell these characters aren’t as petty or conniving as BP. Brittany is middle ground. There is variety.

    Over in WWE you have crazy chick (Alicia Foxx), crazy chick (AJ Lee), rookie (Paige), and the vapid ass total divas that are presented that way to keep continuity with that dumb show only a 3rd of the Raw audience even watches. There is no organization therefore no equality. Divas division will stay a joke until they wake up from that.
    How about the country boy redneck?

    Just like WWE’s country boy rednecks including one of the biggest stars of all time. Just relating to the majority of the fanbase for better or worse.
    This 🤬 isn't about WWE being racist it's about TV and Americans in general being 🤬 in the head. They been doing the 🤬 you talking about but the 🤬 ain't work then and now they have no interest in doing so.

    Just because it didn’t work for them in a less progressive society from 2 decades ago doesn’t mean they can’t begin to try now. If they can’t see that then they’re quitters and that’s pathetic. TV audience is different today so are a lot of Americans that watch TV.

    They don’t see the money in the future. They’re still too stuck in the past. The old boy’s club mentality won’t die there till Vince steps away. Renee Young making it to Superstars commentary? HHH and Steph made that happen. Maybe when they take over things will change but for the present it will be the same old 🤬 .
  • jonojono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Broddie wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    Scandal? Lol the black bed 🤬 for a white man is not a stereotype?

    When did I say that it wasn’t? My point is that you still have a black woman leading a hit prime time network tv show. It’s not like there haven’t been white wenches for white men on TV hundreds of times before.14 years ago it would’ve been a white actress in that role. A minority woman headlining an emmy nominated hit show is progress.
    Django Unchained, The Help, The Butler, 12 Years A Slave these are progressive? I could have sworn we had movies like those in those in the1970s.

    For every one of those there are 4+ movies that challenge racial or gender stereotypes. The American film and TV industry is more progressive than WWE. We’ve had stuff like Haywire, Goodbye Solo, Fruitvale Station, Million Dollar Baby, Brokeback Mountain, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Dallas Buyers Club, Crash etc. come from that industry in the last 10 years. In the last decade there has been a balance with American movies.
    Fruitvale Station isn't exactly a big budget movie now is it? Neither was Blue Caprice but...

    [/quote]Where is the balance in WWE? Is it with Alberto Del Rio playing a typical 80’s telenovela villain? Or is it with Primo and Epico being Matadors? Paige gets the championship and gets no real built. Where’s the equality on Raw or Smackdown?[/quote]
    ADR isn't playing a character based on his nationality. He played a character that was along the same lines as JBL and Ted DiBiase.

    The reason epico and primo are matadors are because they couldn't get over before. You barked up the wrong tree with Latinos because if there are any minorities WWE has pushed it was Latinos.

    Women being prominently featured more on television is a good point but WWE gave the women their own show, which they promote religiously and even attempt to build storylines from and for, the basic fact is nobody cares.
    Nobody cares because it caters to an audience outside of the ones who watch the wrestling product. If they actually gave them storylines that were relevant to Raw and Smackdown and built up their characters by you know actually presenting them in competition and being athletes on the shows the wrestling fans watch maybe people would actually give a 🤬 .
    Okay well explain why there isn't any other women's promotion on national TV? If things are so progressive then obviously that would be the case eh?

    And like I said they have tried making storyline based around Total Divas
    I do find it interesting that you talk about a transgendered person winning an Emmy when just a few weeks ago you were complaining that Adam Rose was "too feminine" or lightweight 🤬 or some 🤬 , which to be honest isn't far from what I think but I don't hate the gimmick because it's faggy, I don't like it because it's a stupid gimmick altogether.
    Apples and oranges.

    I’m pointing out progress in mainstream pop culture by pointing out an emmy nomination. I don’t give a 🤬 what people identify as be who you are. The difference between that and Adam Rose is that Adam Rose is on a TV show where men are supposed to be competing in sports competition grabbing their butts and openly flirting with them.
    And yet Brokeback mountain is one of your examples of progressive cinema? Where two tough guy cowboys are in a relationship? Smh
    Adam Rose has actually even offended 🤬 people and who could blame them for being offended. There's not more room for the whole "It’s every bad 🤬 stereotype on blatant display. It sticks out like a sore thumb on the show. If WWE were really progressive they’d book their openly 🤬 wrestler Darren Young on his own merits and give him AR’s TV time. That’s certainly more realistic and relatable to straight and 🤬 people alike. Characters like Adam Rose are regressive not progressive.
    Adam Rose isn't explicitly 🤬 and they don't promote him as a 🤬 character. If they had actually tried to push him as a homosexual character then you would have a point.

    Besides as far as women's rights goes WWE had a woman actually beating men in the ring 15 years ago, you talk about transgendered rights? Goldust debuted in 1995! Just because that 🤬 doesn't go on today doesn't mean it never took place.
    15 years ago and 19 years ago is not today. Sorry but that’s just how it is. We’re talking about 2 to 3 new generations since that point in the world today.
    They have been ahead of the curve, doing this type of stuff long before society was ready that's the point.

    WWE HAD real women wrestlers from 1993-1995 and nobody have a damn until they started getting naked and doing playboy covers.
    People did give a damn. Bull Nakano Vs. Alundra Blayze at Summerslam is still considered a GOAT match from that era by WWF fans. Maybe not WWE fans but that’s because a lot of them are 12 years old and didn’t grow up in that era. But anybody that knows their WWF history would know what that is about. Today however Vince would not allow women to steal the show on that level ever again. That’s my point. It’s regressive not progressive behavior.
    Who the hell says Alundra Blayze vs Bull Nakano is a classic??

    Like I said the women didnt get much attention until they started getting naked.
    How many black action stars do you have in Hollywood? Rock and who else?
    Today?

    Denzel Washington and Will Smith, Sam Jackson, Michael Jai White. In the past? Wesley, Richard Roundtree, Sidney Poiteir. There are a lot of young black actors too getting shot in headlining action and sci-fi today like Michael B. Jordan with Creed and Fantastic Four. I don’t see any black man, Asian man or even another latino (Del Rio won’t be main event level ever again) or other minority reigning as WWE champ anytime soon. OK I’ll say that I guess the Samoan/Italian dude counts but aside from that it will be a while before you see anyone else.
    I would hardly call Denzel or Sam Jackson "action stars" as it belittles all the other great movies they did, but I'll give you Denzel but Sam Jackson will do a movie about laundry detergent just to do it so he doesn't count.

    Michael Jai White isn't even a "star" dude basically does B Movies and Michael B Jordan was in one action movie and hes an action star? The bar must be really low. I'm surprised you didn't say Tyler Perry.
  • jonojono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Broddie wrote: »
    to be quite honest The Rock is race neutral he stands behind the mic singing Frank Sinatra and Elvis, in his movies he is always the race neutral character damn near nobody considers Rock to be black anymore.

    That is my point though ALL minorities should be given the same chance to represent who they really are like The Rock did. Not everybody acts "black" if we're talking stereotypically it doesn't meant they aren't black either. Let people be people. Minorities are too diverse to be boxed in. We need more of that in WWE today and less Xavier Woods debuting with R Truth and the Funkadactyls because they're all black and love to dance

    I might actually like Kofi Kingston if they remove his stupid ass gimmick and let him cut loose who knows. Same with Big E. But they just don’t try. Everyone has to fit into a box.
    Ignoring the differences between people is not progressive, it's whitewashing.

    Was it WWE fans that chanted "Let's Go Goku" at Tanahashi during his trip to America?
    Wrestling fans. That has nothing to do with the booking. Most wrestling fans are close minded and low class. That’s kinda the point of me even mentioning NBC 🤬 on McMahon like they did. Sadly most of the audience doesn’t do enough to prove otherwise.
    You blame that on society, but WWE is regressive?
    Is it WWE that still has the "mean girls" stereotype still going on?
    Technically yeah; last I checked the BFF’s exist over in NXT which is a WWE offshoot. Nevertheless that doesn’t mean every girl in NXT is booked that way. I don’t fault them for it either cause they’re supposed to be heels. They all have distinct characters and personalities like in the real world. You could tell heels from face easily unlike the main roster. That’s why it’s unfortunate that the people that run NXT don’t run Raw or Smackdown but I digress.
    But you just said WWE doesn't take women's wrestling seriously...Natalya and Charlotte lit NXT up a few weeks back but "WWE doesn't promote women's wrestling"
    Same thing with the Beautiful People they are heels. They’re being 🤬 like heels have traditionally been. Just like dudes would be 🤬 if they’re supposed to be heels. That’s equality. Madison Rayne, Gail Kim, Taryn Terell these characters aren’t as petty or conniving as BP. Brittany is middle ground. There is variety.

    Over in WWE you have crazy chick (Alicia Foxx), crazy chick (AJ Lee), rookie (Paige), and the vapid ass total divas that are presented that way to keep continuity with that dumb show only a 3rd of the Raw audience even watches. There is no organization therefore no equality. Divas division will stay a joke until they wake up from that.
    You ignored Naomi, Natalya, The Bellas, Stephanie, Layla, Summer Rae and basically nobody that didn't for your agenda.
    How about the country boy redneck?
    Just like WWE’s country boy rednecks including one of the biggest stars of all time. Just relating to the majority of the fanbase for better or worse.
    I thought we were talking about today and not 15 years ago?
    This 🤬 isn't about WWE being racist it's about TV and Americans in general being 🤬 in the head. They been doing the 🤬 you talking about but the 🤬 ain't work then and now they have no interest in doing so.
    Just because it didn’t work for them in a less progressive society from 2 decades ago doesn’t mean they can’t begin to try now. If they can’t see that then they’re quitters and that’s pathetic. TV audience is different today so are a lot of Americans that watch TV.
    Solid. I agree but to say they haven't done anything progressive is a lie. They've already been down that road, they have run the gamut of minorities in top spots for decades (mostly Latinos).
    They don’t see the money in the future. They’re still too stuck in the past. The old boy’s club mentality won’t die there till Vince steps away. Renee Young making it to Superstars commentary? HHH and Steph made that happen. Maybe when they take over things will change but for the present it will be the same old 🤬 .

    WWE has had many female ring announcers, backstage interviewers etc all under Vince's reign. The announce teams have been quite diverse, there's been latinos, blacks and now a woman on the commentary.

    WWE has had women in rumble matches, women winning matches against men, women winning male championships.They have promoted women's matches as main events, and they built a show around the women.

    There are a few more hurdles to jump trough because things aren't as they should be but for the most part, the idea that WWE is racist or sexist lack foundation even though the company has done racist and sexist angles.
  • BroddieBroddie just me and my bitch NYCMembers Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2014
    jono wrote: »
    Fruitvale Station isn't exactly a big budget movie now is it? Neither was Blue Caprice but...

    When did you ever specify “big budget movie”? and even then the only grossly offensive display of gender or racial stereotypes you'd find in a big budget movie today is Michael Bay's movie. Which is not a surprise because artistically he's a proven misogynist and bigot.
    ADR isn't playing a character based on his nationality. He played a character that was along the same lines as JBL and Ted DiBiase.

    If ADR was like JBL and the Million Dollar Man he’d be buying off people and cutting scathing promos on the regular. ADR instead comes across as a walking representation of an embittered and spoiled rich Mexican like in old telenovelas.
    The reason epico and primo are matadors are because they couldn't get over before.

    So because they couldn’t get over with their old gimmicks they had to be repackaged as a latino stereotype instead? as opposed to giving them more reasonable and less cartoonish gimmicks? makes sense.
    You barked up the wrong tree with Latinos because if there are any minorities WWE has pushed it was Latinos.

    So because latinos have been pushed in the past in the following order (Pedro Morales then 23 yeas later Eddie then 7 years after that Rey and ADR) it justifies latino talent being given stereotypical gimmicks in 2014? Ok sure. Let’s tell all those Japanese people that it’s ok that Yoshi Tatsu was treated like 🤬 too because Antonio Anoiki was once given the WWE title as well.

    Okay well explain why there isn't any other women's promotion on national TV? If things are so progressive then obviously that would be the case eh?

    Simply because no national female only promotion has the exposure and budget that WWE has? It’s not rocket science. Doesn’t mean a wrestling audience wouldn’t be open to seeing women treated like athletes & not catty shrews on the biggest wrestling show on TV.
    And like I said they have tried making storyline based around Total Divas

    and like I said the majority of the people who watch Raw and Smackdown don’t watch Total Divas.
    And yet Brokeback mountain is one of your examples of progressive cinema? Where two tough guy cowboys are in a relationship? Smh

    Nah I smh at you and now wonder why I even tried to have this debate with you in the first place. Yes Brokeback Mountain is a form of progressive cinema because like I stated it challenged gender and minority stereotypes; by having two tough cowboys in a relationship instead of reinforcing the stereotypes.
    Adam Rose isn't explicitly 🤬 and they don't promote him as a 🤬 character. If they had actually tried to push him as a homosexual character then you would have a point.

    No instead they have Adam Rose doing explicitly stereotypically 🤬 🤬 all over the show every week. That’s not any better. It’s actually worse in terms of regression.

    Besides as far as women's rights goes WWE had a woman actually beating men in the ring 15 years ago,

    Probably the one truly progressive thing you’ve listed. Still was almost 2 decades ago. What has happened lately?
    you talk about transgendered rights? Goldust debuted in 1995! Just because that 🤬 doesn't go on today doesn't mean it never took place.


    and just because it once took place doesn’t mean that you see the fruits of that labor on their product today.
    They have been ahead of the curve, doing this type of stuff long before society was ready that's the point.

    If they’re so ahead of the curve they should remain that way and keep progressing things till it resonates with the rest of society on a greater level. Not stop all of a sudden like a bunch of quitters. That’s the point.
    Who the hell says Alundra Blayze vs Bull Nakano is a classic??

    uh anybody that actually sat through the new generation era?

    Those were the days of Duke The Dumpster Droese and Repo Man getting prominent TV time. Talent like Alundra Blayze and Luna Vachon were more over with wrestling fans than the majority of the male midcard at that point in time.

    Like I said the women didnt get much attention until they started getting naked.

    Women got more attention when they started selling sex during the crash TV era yes because that was one of the dominant components of crash TV. This is 2014 though not 1999.
    I would hardly call Denzel or Sam Jackson "action stars" as it belittles all the other great movies they did

    Then I guess we shouldn’t call Will Smith, Matt Damon or Tom Cruise action stars either for the same reasons even though like Jackson and Washington they qualify due to headlining more than one action vehicle in their career.
    but I'll give you Denzel but Sam Jackson will do a movie about laundry detergent just to do it so he doesn't count.

    What does that have to do with anything? Does it suddenly erase the action movies he’s headline off his resume?
    Michael Jai White isn't even a "star" dude basically does B Movies and Michael B Jordan was in one action movie and hes an action star? The bar must be really low. I'm surprised you didn't say Tyler Perry.

    The Rock has done numerous B movies. Matter of fact that is the majority of his resume including more than one that went straight to DVD. That doesn’t make him any less an action star. Michael Jai White is known as an action star to the movie audience. Blood and Bone and Undisputed 2 for example aren't considered some of the best comedies of recent times by movie fans, they're considered some of the best action movies. You said action star not “box office juggernaut”.

    Michael B. Jordan is just getting started with his career that’s my point. A young black man is getting shots to star in superhero movies and headline the follow up to the iconic Rocky franchise. What minority wrestler have you seen getting shots at the WWE title in recent time? Roman Reigns and like I said in my precious post I’ll concede that one. It’s the first in quite a long time though where as Jordan isn’t the first black actor in Hollywood to get a shot at headlining action in recent memory.
  • genocidecuttergenocidecutter Members Posts: 17,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Speaking of Alberto what happened to his character. He's so bland now
  • BroddieBroddie just me and my bitch NYCMembers Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Speaking of Alberto what happened to his character. He's so bland now

    They never evolved it.
  • GorillaWitAttitudeGorillaWitAttitude Members Posts: 3,566
    If haven't heard kenta is now official signed. I wonder I how fast there gonna bury him

    I hope they won't 🤬 up, but I hope he becomes popular as Bryan 2011. If they can push him in the midcard then put the world title on him as a test run.
  • VIBEVIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    well damn
  • DOPEdweebzDOPEdweebz What title? www.facebook.com/DOPEdweebzMembers, Moderators, Writer Posts: 29,364 Regulator
    If haven't heard kenta is now official signed. I wonder I how fast there gonna bury him

    I hope they won't 🤬 up, but I hope he becomes popular as Bryan 2011. If they can push him in the midcard then put the world title on him as a test run.

    You know that wouldnt happen. Id like to see him in TNA where fans could appreciate him more. If he has one major 🤬 hes Ultimo Dragon or Botch Cara. WwE wont let a legend like him just wrestle, like Sanada is doing in TNA.
  • BroddieBroddie just me and my bitch NYCMembers Posts: 11,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If haven't heard kenta is now official signed. I wonder I how fast there gonna bury him

    I hope they won't 🤬 up, but I hope he becomes popular as Bryan 2011. If they can push him in the midcard then put the world title on him as a test run.

    You know that wouldnt happen. Id like to see him in TNA where fans could appreciate him more. If he has one major 🤬 hes Ultimo Dragon or Botch Cara. WwE wont let a legend like him just wrestle, like Sanada is doing in TNA.

    The biggest mistake with Mistico was not sending him to NXT. So he never learned to adapt to the WWE style. KENTA is going to go through NXT first so at least they won't drop the ball there.
  • BangEm_Bart BangEm_Bart Members Posts: 9,503 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jono wrote: »
    Broddie wrote: »
    WWE is racist. They only promote white and samoan wrestlers. His talent would be showcased as a top teir x division or even champion in TNA. Bad move but i guess he needs the money.

    WWE is even prejudice against whites. There's no reason Sheamus has to be a drunken fighting lucky charm muthafucka just cause he's Irish. For a company that tries to front like they're progressive they sure don't know how to let go of tired old carny stereotype dependency (See also: Rusev and Lana). This is why wrestling will never appeal to an audience that isn't low brow. This is why NBC was like "Vince your audience is not worth the money. Take this lower deal or stay 🤬 when it comes to TV."

    Where in Hollywood are minorities fairly depicted as more than stereotypes? I'm pretty sure the stereotypes WWE uses are standard fare for ethnic and racial minorities.

    Considering that is true then all forms of visual entertainment are low brow because they all use the same tropes. Very seldom will you see ethnic or racial minorities getting a fair shake in movies or on TV.

    That said, I think playing up ethnicities isn't a bad thing. The problem is when these gimmicks make the performer look stupid.

    I have no complaints about Tajiri's WWE career, yeah he did the stereotypical Yakuza gimmick for awhile but for the most part he was doing what he does.

    The only real big slap in the face of Asians was Kaientai's lip synching gimmick, it was funny no doubt, but the 🤬 was racist.

    I definitely think they could go outside the box more but to be honest they scared to really go there and be different and it's because this society isn't ready for the face of wwe (and thus professional wrestling as a whole) to be Black, or Asian or an ethnic foreigner, it's that simple.

    Society will never be ready. This post makes no sense. There have been revolutionaries that have broke the stereotypes of society and still society is and will always be racist.

    Hugh Hefner, Bruce Lee, MLK, these guys have went against societies standards. We cant just accept to be a stereotype by supporting this with our money. Mcmahon slapped 🤬 in the face by replacing the Rock with a wigga and calling him a 🤬 . Yall 🤬 have no standards. They should support all races and what made the raw era so great was the diversity from The Rock, Eddie Guerrero, 🤬 thats the only minorities that have been champs.
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