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Is there a real lack of "Intellectual Diversity" in Education?

blakfyahking
blakfyahking The IC's Resident Father FigureMembers Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
Is this really an issue that dampens the quality of education in the US?

Does this create a body of students who grow up to be educated sheep who are afraid to think for themselves or offer ideas that challenge the status quo?

Has anyone personally experienced a situation where they were in a class and a professor/teacher was hostile just because an opposing idea to the instructor's personal beliefs was offered?

Do we sufficiently allow students to challenge ideas in an educational setting that promotes respect for differing opinions?

http://onlineathens.com/stories/110210/opi_729417254.shtml#.VQBzfI54rYg

http://www.goacta.org/news/americas_universities_get_f_grade_in_intellectual_diversity

http://www.shfwire.com/universities-lack-intellectual-diversity-witnesses-tell-senate-panel/



These articles talk about the problem of students not being allowed to offer competing ideas and ultimately runs the risk of indoctrinating students vs truly educating them

Comments

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Great question. I remember speaking out in my college days on all kinds of subjects, and my professors usually agreed with me. But I did see some professors act hostile to those with different opinions from them. Not sure how widespread the problem is though, in NY probably most college professors have the same beliefs as me (from what I saw in Hunter)
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking The IC's Resident Father Figure Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Great question. I remember speaking out in my college days on all kinds of subjects, and my professors usually agreed with me. But I did see some professors act hostile to those with different opinions from them. Not sure how widespread the problem is though, in NY probably most college professors have the same beliefs as me (from what I saw in Hunter)

    the bolded is part of the problem tho isn't it?

    how can someone have a well rounded education if they are mostly being taught by, and only having intellectual convos with other people that agree with them?


    I ran into that in college as well and noticed that many professors that taught STEM/business courses tended to have conservative views....and strictly social science professors tended to be more liberal

    I thought that kind of diluted the value of those courses IMO
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Great question. I remember speaking out in my college days on all kinds of subjects, and my professors usually agreed with me. But I did see some professors act hostile to those with different opinions from them. Not sure how widespread the problem is though, in NY probably most college professors have the same beliefs as me (from what I saw in Hunter)

    the bolded is part of the problem tho isn't it?

    how can someone have a well rounded education if they are mostly being taught by, and only having intellectual convos with other people that agree with them?


    I ran into that in college as well and noticed that many professors that taught STEM/business courses tended to have conservative views....and strictly social science professors tended to be more liberal

    I thought that kind of diluted the value of those courses IMO

    Yeah I feel what you're saying, professors no matter what should at least listen to other points of view. If that isn't happening, then that professor is afraid his point of view can't stand against criticism. Teachers/ professors who have weak points of view almost always hate it when people challenge them. If anything, they should welcome it because it can make their point of view stronger, if it's a good one.

    I ran into that a lot in Catholic School, whenever I questioned the priests on several religious courses I took with them, they hated it lol. It made me lose more and more respect for what they were teaching me and I eventually decided to leave Catholic School for a regular but good public school my junior year of high school.
  • SlimRemy
    SlimRemy Members Posts: 149 ✭✭
    well opinions are often based on that person's intellect and if you insult someone's opinions about something then often times, they feel you're insulting their intelligence. a lack of diversity comes from a lack of challenging. why take the chance of saying how you really feel, or offering an opposing viewpoint, if you might make the teacher mad. that teacher you 🤬 off, might remember what you said when it comes to grading your paper.

    i mean if you don't mind getting C's say whatever the hell you want. but if you want to get A's and B's and you're competing to get into grad school, or if you're trying to transfer from community college to a four year, those A's and B's start gaining weight.

    so of course there isn't going to be much intellectual diversity. nodding and being a yes man doesn't challenge the status quo, it maintains it. extremists, radicals, and forward thinkers are often rejected and ridiculed by those that maintain the status quo, or those for whom it's beneficial to keep things the way they are.

    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
    Albert Einstein

    but i think everyone in this thread agrees right?
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes everything is 🤬 liberal pro homosexuality,feminism, atheism, and borderline socialist.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    30 years of corruption in education has produced a whole crop of intellectually born idiots. That hold onto stupid ideologies that are slowly destroying the western world
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking The IC's Resident Father Figure Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    SlimRemy wrote: »
    well opinions are often based on that person's intellect and if you insult someone's opinions about something then often times, they feel you're insulting their intelligence. a lack of diversity comes from a lack of challenging. why take the chance of saying how you really feel, or offering an opposing viewpoint, if you might make the teacher mad. that teacher you 🤬 off, might remember what you said when it comes to grading your paper.

    i mean if you don't mind getting C's say whatever the hell you want. but if you want to get A's and B's and you're competing to get into grad school, or if you're trying to transfer from community college to a four year, those A's and B's start gaining weight.

    so of course there isn't going to be much intellectual diversity. nodding and being a yes man doesn't challenge the status quo, it maintains it. extremists, radicals, and forward thinkers are often rejected and ridiculed by those that maintain the status quo, or those for whom it's beneficial to keep things the way they are.

    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
    Albert Einstein

    but i think everyone in this thread agrees right?

    so what can be done to fix it? cause how are we receiving a true education if it is taboo to explore competing ideas just because a person is uncomfortable/insecure?

    do we just continue pushing drones through college? what benefit does society as a whole get from that?
  • cobbland
    cobbland "Shorty": Belly (1998) Chicago...Members Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭✭✭
    SlimRemy wrote: »
    well opinions are often based on that person's intellect and if you insult someone's opinions about something then often times, they feel you're insulting their intelligence. a lack of diversity comes from a lack of challenging. why take the chance of saying how you really feel, or offering an opposing viewpoint, if you might make the teacher mad. that teacher you 🤬 off, might remember what you said when it comes to grading your paper.

    i mean if you don't mind getting C's say whatever the hell you want. but if you want to get A's and B's and you're competing to get into grad school, or if you're trying to transfer from community college to a four year, those A's and B's start gaining weight.

    so of course there isn't going to be much intellectual diversity. nodding and being a yes man doesn't challenge the status quo, it maintains it. extremists, radicals, and forward thinkers are often rejected and ridiculed by those that maintain the status quo, or those for whom it's beneficial to keep things the way they are.

    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
    Albert Einstein

    but i think everyone in this thread agrees right?

    so what can be done to fix it? cause how are we receiving a true education if it is taboo to explore competing ideas just because a person is uncomfortable/insecure?

    do we just continue pushing drones through college? what benefit does society as a whole get from that?

    Society as a whole won't benefit from this (drones being pushed through high schools and college), but it keeps the current power structure in place (and those that profit from this).

    Individuals who can truthfully implement change on a wide scale in a variety of areas are either weeded out early on, or they're accepted on the condition that they will assimilate into the culture already established and continue business as usual.
  • LUClEN
    LUClEN Absence makes the heart grow fonder of someone else Members Posts: 20,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've noticed a lot of leftist dogma in my program tbh

    Once had a prof say prenuptial agreements are unfair. Makes no sense when they have to consent to it though.
  • SlimRemy
    SlimRemy Members Posts: 149 ✭✭
    so what can be done to fix it? cause how are we receiving a true education if it is taboo to explore competing ideas just because a person is uncomfortable/insecure?

    do we just continue pushing drones through college? what benefit does society as a whole get from that?

    well from what i understand and what i've experienced personally, school isn't designed to produce "intellectuals" or higher learning at all. it's just to create drones and for those with, to find who's going to keep them having. college is about connections. it's true, it's not what you know, but who you know. so if you're rich or really wealthy, you go to school to find people that are smarter than you, or you know are more talented at certain stuff.

    a person who isn't rich or wealthy and wants to make some sort of life and have a chance in the socioeconomic ladder game, is going to go to school hoping to use their "smarts and talents" to be noticed by someone who is in a position to get them a job in their company. it's like checks and balances right.

    to have radical thoughts and "rebellious" attitudes are pretty rhetorical distractions. they're based in idealism, and while it's good to dream, reality constantly points back to the four pillars of the human condition.

    1.money.
    2.sex.
    3.drugs.
    4.whatever.

    think about it, if you wanted to do research and present something new, challenging, or "radical" you still need funding. you could be a great scientific mind that would rival einstein and tesla, and if you don't have proper funding, no one would ever know. why does it cost so much money to invent something? if you had a great idea, do you know how much money it costs, to bring it to fruition? but we're supposed to be promoting higher learning, human advancement, and whatever idealistic scholastic rhetoric.

    college is just an investment. you go to a major college to join a frat. it's conditioning to become a worker. it doesn't matter if you're good at the work you do. you pay to go to the place with the best connections. and you pretty much join a gang. as long as you can follow the rules, and show that you're willing to do whatever, you'll have all the access to the drugs, sex and money your gang can get you. seems like a nice trade off. if i put myself in debt for 120,000 dollars to join a frat that guarantees me a job of 50,000 dollars a year. then hopefully as long as i don't end up addicted to 🤬 , I should be alright.

    joining a frat is smart. you're not paying for friends or camaraderie, you're paying for your team. it's kind of like a fantasy draft. you don't just draft anyone, you draft the team you think is going to win. you're not going to just rush anywhere, you're going to join the frat that if you did your research is going to get you what you want.

    maybe alpha alpha alpha (i'm making this up) has a sister sorority with nothing but 🤬 eyed, large tittied, thick thighed, big bootied, loyal ride or die for my sorority and i'm loyal to my brother fraternity. like you know that the girls are going to be loyal because when they rushed, they went through tests of loyalty, and all your trials are examples of the extremes you'd go on some new school chivalry. you're probably going to skip out on beta beta beta, because you know you're always going to be able to get drugs. you don't care about drugs. you want money so you join beta beta beta because all of it's fraternity members are rich and they drive exotic cars and have mansions. they've got women that are just as bad, but they're probably not going to be as loyal because beta beta beta is more for the movers and shakers. alpha alpha alpha has the loyalty clause. beta beta beta promotes prenupts.

    and since there's so many different frats, you can find the one that's the best fit for you. either way, it's a pretty smart system.

    there's no need to fix it, or be in opposition to it.

  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking The IC's Resident Father Figure Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LUClEN wrote: »
    I've noticed a lot of leftist dogma in my program tbh

    Once had a prof say prenuptial agreements are unfair. Makes no sense when they have to consent to it though.

    did your tell your side of the argument to the professor tho? what was his/her response?
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking The IC's Resident Father Figure Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    SlimRemy wrote: »
    so what can be done to fix it? cause how are we receiving a true education if it is taboo to explore competing ideas just because a person is uncomfortable/insecure?

    do we just continue pushing drones through college? what benefit does society as a whole get from that?

    well from what i understand and what i've experienced personally, school isn't designed to produce "intellectuals" or higher learning at all. it's just to create drones and for those with, to find who's going to keep them having. college is about connections. it's true, it's not what you know, but who you know. so if you're rich or really wealthy, you go to school to find people that are smarter than you, or you know are more talented at certain stuff.

    a person who isn't rich or wealthy and wants to make some sort of life and have a chance in the socioeconomic ladder game, is going to go to school hoping to use their "smarts and talents" to be noticed by someone who is in a position to get them a job in their company. it's like checks and balances right.

    to have radical thoughts and "rebellious" attitudes are pretty rhetorical distractions. they're based in idealism, and while it's good to dream, reality constantly points back to the four pillars of the human condition.

    1.money.
    2.sex.
    3.drugs.
    4.whatever.

    think about it, if you wanted to do research and present something new, challenging, or "radical" you still need funding. you could be a great scientific mind that would rival einstein and tesla, and if you don't have proper funding, no one would ever know. why does it cost so much money to invent something? if you had a great idea, do you know how much money it costs, to bring it to fruition? but we're supposed to be promoting higher learning, human advancement, and whatever idealistic scholastic rhetoric.

    college is just an investment. you go to a major college to join a frat. it's conditioning to become a worker. it doesn't matter if you're good at the work you do. you pay to go to the place with the best connections. and you pretty much join a gang. as long as you can follow the rules, and show that you're willing to do whatever, you'll have all the access to the drugs, sex and money your gang can get you. seems like a nice trade off. if i put myself in debt for 120,000 dollars to join a frat that guarantees me a job of 50,000 dollars a year. then hopefully as long as i don't end up addicted to 🤬 , I should be alright.

    joining a frat is smart. you're not paying for friends or camaraderie, you're paying for your team. it's kind of like a fantasy draft. you don't just draft anyone, you draft the team you think is going to win. you're not going to just rush anywhere, you're going to join the frat that if you did your research is going to get you what you want.

    maybe alpha alpha alpha (i'm making this up) has a sister sorority with nothing but 🤬 eyed, large tittied, thick thighed, big bootied, loyal ride or die for my sorority and i'm loyal to my brother fraternity. like you know that the girls are going to be loyal because when they rushed, they went through tests of loyalty, and all your trials are examples of the extremes you'd go on some new school chivalry. you're probably going to skip out on beta beta beta, because you know you're always going to be able to get drugs. you don't care about drugs. you want money so you join beta beta beta because all of it's fraternity members are rich and they drive exotic cars and have mansions. they've got women that are just as bad, but they're probably not going to be as loyal because beta beta beta is more for the movers and shakers. alpha alpha alpha has the loyalty clause. beta beta beta promotes prenupts.

    and since there's so many different frats, you can find the one that's the best fit for you. either way, it's a pretty smart system.

    there's no need to fix it, or be in opposition to it.

    so you're cool with the way things currently are?

    your argument basically justifies devaluing a liberal arts education since you are basically saying college only exists to give job training/access and maybe to create a new generation of workers

    I disagree......I think it's troubling that we make colleges serve as major institutions that underpin the foundation of our society, but yet we don't hold them accountable by forcing colleges to give students what they actually paid for, which is an education

    yeah I see the sense in having my kid go to a college to network, but I would also like for him/her to be able to explore ideas and be able to intellectually contribute to the world.........I don't think it's acceptable that they should come back with only a piece of paper that says they followed directions in order to graduate and the last few years of their time there was only spent drinking some ideologue's soup in several different classes

    that needs to be fixed IMO

  • LUClEN
    LUClEN Absence makes the heart grow fonder of someone else Members Posts: 20,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LUClEN wrote: »
    I've noticed a lot of leftist dogma in my program tbh

    Once had a prof say prenuptial agreements are unfair. Makes no sense when they have to consent to it though.

    did your tell your side of the argument to the professor tho? what was his/her response?

    Yeah I asked her how it's unfair for women when they need to agree to it. She gave me some anecdote about someone she knew who had been dating a guy whose family had a lot of money that demanded a prenupt and how it was unfair that if the relationship went sour she would not get any money. Makes no sense.

    A lot of people still misuse a lot of gender disparities too, like the wage gap and educational attainment differences. Just seems so dogmatic to hold to beliefs rather than data.
  • SlimRemy
    SlimRemy Members Posts: 149 ✭✭
    so you're cool with the way things currently are?

    your argument basically justifies devaluing a liberal arts education since you are basically saying college only exists to give job training/access and maybe to create a new generation of workers

    I disagree......I think it's troubling that we make colleges serve as major institutions that underpin the foundation of our society, but yet we don't hold them accountable by forcing colleges to give students what they actually paid for, which is an education

    yeah I see the sense in having my kid go to a college to network, but I would also like for him/her to be able to explore ideas and be able to intellectually contribute to the world.........I don't think it's acceptable that they should come back with only a piece of paper that says they followed directions in order to graduate and the last few years of their time there was only spent drinking some ideologue's soup in several different classes

    that needs to be fixed IMO

    no. i'm not cool with the way things currently are at all. but it's obviously a system. a way of doing things. like a religion is a way of life or living. just because i'm opposed to, or don't believe in the way something is done doesn't mean everyone should change or do things the way i want them to.

    to go off of what you said. "we make colleges serve as major institutions that underpin the foundation of our society," that's it right there. it's there to instill a mentality, or to produce a certain outcome. i don't really recall Socrates having that much money, but he was known for his dedication to the pursuit of knowledge. there's a Socratic method of teaching. which involves "round table discussions" with topics used to discuss in a forum like setting. the teacher is on par with the student. they sit around and discuss ideas. schools now, are very totalitarian (i can't pronounce that word but hopefully you know what i mean.) you come to class, you sit down, shut up and are dictated to by whoever is the boss. you do things the way the boss says. try writing a paper without using MLA format. you will probably lose at least a letter grade. never mind the content of the paper. if you want to, you can buy papers that other people write (from websites online,) and turn them in as your own. or maybe you pay someone else to write your papers for you. turn in old papers from frat homies, or friends that have already taken the class. it took me four times to pass college writing, but we're sitting here and having a conversation that's discussing college. i'm not capitalizing after every period, maybe the comma's aren't all where they are supposed to be, but I'm communicating well enough to merit a response from you right? i type exactly how i speak, and though my opinions have changed over the years, my ability to express myself hasn't.

    "to be able to explore ideas and be able to contribute to the world" is Socratic. that is ideally what higher learning was supposed to produce. for the love of knowledge. "but to come back with a only a piece of paper that says they followed directions in order to graduate..." is where we're at because school is a business too.

    people kept telling me, and i didn't really understand or get it. but it makes sense. Socrates would be quite angry with the state of the education system. but learning about him and all those other great thinkers, is again scholastic rhetoric.

    school is a business.
    1.money
    2.sex
    3.drugs
    4.whatever.

    everything is a game. even getting money is a game. but money can skew and dictate way too much of the game. making it no longer fun. and we hear it all the time, "don't hate the player, hate the game." i don't even hate the game. i just want to do something else. but even then it costs money to do something else.

    "be the change you want to see in the world,"Gandhi.

    i'm not trying to fight the machine or the system. there's no need to. things are as they are.

    "the supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." Sun Tzu.

  • jono
    jono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All that talk about diversity sounds good until it reaches the realm of the ridiculous, then It just waters down the quality of the education.

    Certain 🤬 is on the fringes for a reason, it has no place In the course.
  • luke1733
    luke1733 Members Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭✭
    blak, you pretty much hit it. Society has an agenda to have citizens conform to the status quo that supports the government. If people benefit then this is just a side effect. The best method is brainwashing and reducing independent thinking because that often creates independence. Independent is NOT what governments want their citizens to esteem to be.
    So if the books you receive are from the government, if the signs you put up must be approved by the government, if the banks who have money are regulated by the government, if the military fights wars on behalf of the government and private interests of the very wealthiest then guess what???? The education you receive will be used to benefit the government that is giving you the education.
    Thus, the reason why people think as they do.
  • D. Morgan
    D. Morgan Not even on social media BUT.... I'M SWAGGIN SO HARD I FUCKED THE GRAM UPMembers Posts: 11,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This has pretty much been known. 🤬 like the No Child Left Behind Act and now this new Common Core 🤬 just pushing what has been started further along just under a different name. It just has the teachers doing nothing but teaching majority of public and charter school kids to pass a test. There is no room for interpretation on those tests.

    None of that 🤬 is done in private schools though so that should tell you something.

    The more people you can create to have nothing but group think the more you can scam and keep pulling the wool over the eyes of the people with no questions asked.
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking The IC's Resident Father Figure Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jono wrote: »
    All that talk about diversity sounds good until it reaches the realm of the ridiculous, then It just waters down the quality of the education.

    Certain 🤬 is on the fringes for a reason, it has no place In the course.

    I hear you, but who decides what the "fringes" are?

    I'm pretty sure when the 1st person argued that the world was round was probably considered to be way out there intellectually

    the problem is that competing ideas are never at least respected to give people the opportunity to really consider the value of other perspectives.....ultimately that leads to everyone blindly succumbing to groupthink thru either fear or a lack of their own vision

    case in point when people talk about race or topics like immigration or minimum wage........we seldom see people who are willing to consider the other side.......which is why are politics are so visceral in their differences amongst people today
  • jono
    jono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jono wrote: »
    All that talk about diversity sounds good until it reaches the realm of the ridiculous, then It just waters down the quality of the education.

    Certain 🤬 is on the fringes for a reason, it has no place In the course.

    I hear you, but who decides what the "fringes" are?

    I'm pretty sure when the 1st person argued that the world was round was probably considered to be way out there intellectually

    the problem is that competing ideas are never at least respected to give people the opportunity to really consider the value of other perspectives.....ultimately that leads to everyone blindly succumbing to groupthink thru either fear or a lack of their own vision

    case in point when people talk about race or topics like immigration or minimum wage........we seldom see people who are willing to consider the other side.......which is why are politics are so visceral in their differences amongst people today

    People not being able to understand your position and you bringing in things that can't be proven by anyone except you or those that choose to believe what you do. Time proves who is right and who isn't, so you may ridicule an idea today that might be proven in 50 years or so but it's not until it becomes proven that it should be discussed equally with things that are proven.

    Objective truth is the standard. The Earth revolves around the Sun is an objective truth, even if at one time it was ridiculed, he was still correct. Melanin Theory isn't science and cannot be proven objectively by anyone so what place does it have on any biology class? I should be able to make up 🤬 with limited and virtually nonexistent facts and get equal time to things that can be proven? No.

    Back when we didn't have a firm understand of things sure it made sense to have certain arguments (whether the Earth is flat or spherical for instance, they had no way of proving either at the time), there are many things we understand far more clearly and taking time to address people who choose to believe 🤬 just because they want to (vaccination causes autism, mental illnesses aren't real, etc) is a waste of everyone's time.

    Being in school is about understanding simple facts and building on them, then being able to think critically about it and criticize when called for, not being able to get to the facts straight is problematic.
  • LUClEN
    LUClEN Absence makes the heart grow fonder of someone else Members Posts: 20,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jono wrote: »
    All that talk about diversity sounds good until it reaches the realm of the ridiculous, then It just waters down the quality of the education.

    Certain 🤬 is on the fringes for a reason, it has no place In the course.

    Geocentricity used to be the true model

    This is church-like behavior to silence competing ideas without refuting them
    Dogmatic af
  • jono
    jono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LUClEN wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    All that talk about diversity sounds good until it reaches the realm of the ridiculous, then It just waters down the quality of the education.

    Certain 🤬 is on the fringes for a reason, it has no place In the course.

    Geocentricity used to be the true model

    This is church-like behavior to silence competing ideas without refuting them
    Dogmatic af

    So...you missed the point or disregarded it?
  • LUClEN
    LUClEN Absence makes the heart grow fonder of someone else Members Posts: 20,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jono wrote: »
    LUClEN wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    All that talk about diversity sounds good until it reaches the realm of the ridiculous, then It just waters down the quality of the education.

    Certain 🤬 is on the fringes for a reason, it has no place In the course.

    Geocentricity used to be the true model

    This is church-like behavior to silence competing ideas without refuting them
    Dogmatic af

    So...you missed the point or disregarded it?

    Maybe I missed it
    sounded like you're saying that fringe beliefs don't need to be discussed or disproved
    Just silenced