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American allies rush to join China's development bank: what does this mean for the American dollar?

2

Comments

  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @aggyaf you never answered the question. Was America better during the 80's or 70's

    Overall yes

    Lol i can't respect your opinion after reading that that you clearly don't know what the 🤬 you are talking about

    the 80's had a 🤬 epidemic and high unemployment and high inflation

    the 70's had a recession that lasted for almost 4 years and the effects of it did not go away for years after it officially ended. It also had high unemployment and it was during the 70's that america really began to get it's bad rep in the middle east with iran.

    right now, today the american stock market has been climbing the american dollar is strong and employment is increasing and the deficit is dropping, our economy has only begun to really strengthen and whoever becomes the next president is going to be very popular because the american economy will most likely only improve.

    today unemployment is around 5 % during the 70's it was almost 11%
  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Queer LGBT CommunityMembers Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @aggyaf you never answered the question. Was America better during the 80's or 70's

    Overall yes

    Lol i can't respect your opinion after reading that that you clearly don't know what the 🤬 you are talking about

    the 80's had a 🤬 epidemic and high unemployment and high inflation

    the 70's had a recession that lasted for almost 4 years and the effects of it did not go away for years after it officially ended. It also had high unemployment and it was during the 70's that america really began to get it's bad rep in the middle east with iran.

    right now, today the american stock market has been climbing the american dollar is strong and employment is increasing and the deficit is dropping, our economy has only begun to really strengthen and whoever becomes the next president is going to be very popular because the american economy will most likely only improve.

    today unemployment is around 5 % during the 70's it was almost 11%

    you're generalizing 20 years based off the 🤬 epidemic (which didn't really affect white people who are 70% of the population) and stagflation. in the 70s, the US was still the premier power in the world

    the 70s and 80s was the start of America's decline, US was at its peak from the 50s and 60s

    i don't really care to argue all week about this either, you enjoy your improving US lol
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @aggyaf you never answered the question. Was America better during the 80's or 70's

    Overall yes

    Lol i can't respect your opinion after reading that that you clearly don't know what the 🤬 you are talking about

    the 80's had a 🤬 epidemic and high unemployment and high inflation

    the 70's had a recession that lasted for almost 4 years and the effects of it did not go away for years after it officially ended. It also had high unemployment and it was during the 70's that america really began to get it's bad rep in the middle east with iran.

    right now, today the american stock market has been climbing the american dollar is strong and employment is increasing and the deficit is dropping, our economy has only begun to really strengthen and whoever becomes the next president is going to be very popular because the american economy will most likely only improve.

    today unemployment is around 5 % during the 70's it was almost 11%

    you're generalizing 20 years based off the 🤬 epidemic (which didn't really affect white people who are 70% of the population) and stagflation. in the 70s, the US was still the premier power in the world

    the 70s and 80s was the start of America's decline, US was at its peak from the 50s and 60s

    i don't really care to argue all week about this either, you enjoy your improving US lol

    You cannot argue because you don't know what the hell you are talking about how the 🤬 where the 50's and 60's the peak of the usa when our economy was much more powerful during the 90's early 2000's???? and i said more about the 70's than the 80's 🤬 epidemic

    during the 60's american society was also much much more racially divided violently so,

    during the 50's and 60's we were also fighting a cold war with a nuclear nation so we were not the premier world power we were one of two superpowers. Today america is THE SUPERPOWER

    As time went by, and the preceding decads FROM the 50's became harder economically (70's 80's) people began to look at the 50's as some ideal time but in reality it was far from the best decade only the most expansive for american power.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    The dollar isn't going to last long. Some economists are already banking on a collapse in 2015. Some religious people have set September 2015 as that moment.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    This bank the bricks and most of these other multinational financial organizations are deeply flawed by their very nature.

    And as Time goes on people will see this just like the Euro, many sovereign nations cannot work together for very long when it comes to financial matters.

    With the imf world bank really it's the USA that sets policy so there is less infighting. Given enough time this new China lead bank will turn into a cluster 🤬 .

    There's less infighting in the IMF and World Bank?? China hates how it didn't have much influence in the World Bank, alongside other nations, especially developing nations. That's why China is able to get so many developing nations to join its AIIB bank. What's crazy is how many developed nations want to join China's bank, they must see a bigger future in China and Asia then they do with America.

    The whole reason why China created this new bank is because America dominates the world bank.it's not a bigger future in China they see it's just another opportunity to make money and develop

    That's a fair point but it does show America is losing at least some influence in the world, you think American officials want a nation as large as China starting its own multinational bank? It's the little things that help end a nation's hold on having a reserve currency, and one of those things is the reserve currency being used less to do business worldwide. And China's bank is going to do exactly that. I'm an American so I benefit by having a strong dollar, but Americans gotta make better decisions when it comes to how we deal with the world and how we spend money. If America loses its reserve currency, that 18 trillion in debt is gonna hurt like crazy. Greece and Spain are two nations that know how painful big debt can be.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    It's crazy how so many nations, even American allies, don't want to be under the influence of an American led bank anymore.
    ...that's not really what this means.

    however, it DOES mean the US handled this whole thing poorly by not getting in on it

    What do you mean by that's not what it really means, American allies didn't have to join China's bank, there's already the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank. Both of those banks are dominated by American institutions, something that should have made American allies feel comfortable and in fact it did make them comfortable for a long time. Now they're willing to be under more of the influence of China.....this is despite all the complaints America made about China and their spyware and corporate espionage LOL.......

    I do agree America should have joined the bank but at the same time, I understand why Obama didn't want that, as he knew the new bank doesn't have American banks dominating it. Also, Obama must be a little mad Russia found another way to do business with Asia and the world, without American dollars being used as much. The sanctions on Russia will mean less then ever before, because China is allowing Russia to join the bank. Big implications outside the dollar.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    zombie wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @aggyaf you never answered the question. Was America better during the 80's or 70's

    Overall yes

    Lol i can't respect your opinion after reading that that you clearly don't know what the 🤬 you are talking about

    the 80's had a 🤬 epidemic and high unemployment and high inflation

    the 70's had a recession that lasted for almost 4 years and the effects of it did not go away for years after it officially ended. It also had high unemployment and it was during the 70's that america really began to get it's bad rep in the middle east with iran.

    right now, today the american stock market has been climbing the american dollar is strong and employment is increasing and the deficit is dropping, our economy has only begun to really strengthen and whoever becomes the next president is going to be very popular because the american economy will most likely only improve.

    today unemployment is around 5 % during the 70's it was almost 11%

    you're generalizing 20 years based off the 🤬 epidemic (which didn't really affect white people who are 70% of the population) and stagflation. in the 70s, the US was still the premier power in the world

    the 70s and 80s was the start of America's decline, US was at its peak from the 50s and 60s

    i don't really care to argue all week about this either, you enjoy your improving US lol

    You cannot argue because you don't know what the hell you are talking about how the 🤬 where the 50's and 60's the peak of the usa when our economy was much more powerful during the 90's early 2000's???? and i said more about the 70's than the 80's 🤬 epidemic

    during the 60's american society was also much much more racially divided violently so,

    during the 50's and 60's we were also fighting a cold war with a nuclear nation so we were not the premier world power we were one of two superpowers. Today america is THE SUPERPOWER

    As time went by, and the preceding decads FROM the 50's became harder economically (70's 80's) people began to look at the 50's as some ideal time but in reality it was far from the best decade only the most expansive for american power.

    We can agree America has seen worse times (as a whole) but America's debt has never been bigger then now. More people are on food stamps then ever, in fact more people are on social welfare programs then anytime in American history. For the "richest" nation in the world to have 50 million people on food stamps is nothing short of amazing. Most public school kids are in free lunch programs now, that wasn't the case in the 90s.

    Our politicians got greedy for votes and power, and that's part of the problem when it comes to the out of control pensions here, which is also bankrupting states. America's state pensions are bankrupting states across the nation and while America can survive that, it's ONLY because it has reserve currency status. That's the reason so many people, including economists, say America is on shaky ground if it can't control its spending. We think inflation is bad now but if we keep spending money the way we are, it's gonna be a horror show in 10-15 years.
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    What do you mean by that's not what it really means
    you said "It's crazy how so many nations, even American allies, don't want to be under the influence of an American led bank anymore." but it's not like these nations have abandoned all other banks to join this one... so they would still be "under the influence of an American led bank."

    and that's the story of what i mean by that's not what it really means

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    janklow wrote: »
    What do you mean by that's not what it really means
    you said "It's crazy how so many nations, even American allies, don't want to be under the influence of an American led bank anymore." but it's not like these nations have abandoned all other banks to join this one... so they would still be "under the influence of an American led bank."

    and that's the story of what i mean by that's not what it really means

    Ok fair enough, I wonder how far China's influence will go with the AIIB bank, and how often they will NOT use the dollar. Russia I'm sure is gonna push the bank to use the dollar as little as possible....
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @aggyaf you never answered the question. Was America better during the 80's or 70's

    Overall yes

    Lol i can't respect your opinion after reading that that you clearly don't know what the 🤬 you are talking about

    the 80's had a 🤬 epidemic and high unemployment and high inflation

    the 70's had a recession that lasted for almost 4 years and the effects of it did not go away for years after it officially ended. It also had high unemployment and it was during the 70's that america really began to get it's bad rep in the middle east with iran.

    right now, today the american stock market has been climbing the american dollar is strong and employment is increasing and the deficit is dropping, our economy has only begun to really strengthen and whoever becomes the next president is going to be very popular because the american economy will most likely only improve.

    today unemployment is around 5 % during the 70's it was almost 11%

    you're generalizing 20 years based off the 🤬 epidemic (which didn't really affect white people who are 70% of the population) and stagflation. in the 70s, the US was still the premier power in the world

    the 70s and 80s was the start of America's decline, US was at its peak from the 50s and 60s

    i don't really care to argue all week about this either, you enjoy your improving US lol

    You're right in that the 70s was the start of America's economic decline, I wasn't sold on that thought until I saw this article from Yahoo.com today......

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-dream-eludes-lower-income-kids-190859068.html;_ylt=AwrBTzdWTh1VvLMAAb5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzODNjYTU3BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDU01FODM3XzEEc2VjA3Nj

    The share of adults in middle-income households has fallen from 61% in 1970 to 51% in 2013. Each of the 50 states has seen its share of middle-class families shrink in that same period.

    •In 1970, 65% of U.S. families lived in middle income neighborhoods. Four decades later, only 42% of families live in such neighborhoods.

  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The USA has problems but to say we are in decline is an overreach because most the fully developed first world nations of size have shrinking middle classes.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @aggyaf you never answered the question. Was America better during the 80's or 70's

    Overall yes

    Lol i can't respect your opinion after reading that that you clearly don't know what the 🤬 you are talking about

    the 80's had a 🤬 epidemic and high unemployment and high inflation

    the 70's had a recession that lasted for almost 4 years and the effects of it did not go away for years after it officially ended. It also had high unemployment and it was during the 70's that america really began to get it's bad rep in the middle east with iran.

    right now, today the american stock market has been climbing the american dollar is strong and employment is increasing and the deficit is dropping, our economy has only begun to really strengthen and whoever becomes the next president is going to be very popular because the american economy will most likely only improve.

    today unemployment is around 5 % during the 70's it was almost 11%

    you're generalizing 20 years based off the 🤬 epidemic (which didn't really affect white people who are 70% of the population) and stagflation. in the 70s, the US was still the premier power in the world

    the 70s and 80s was the start of America's decline, US was at its peak from the 50s and 60s

    i don't really care to argue all week about this either, you enjoy your improving US lol

    You cannot argue because you don't know what the hell you are talking about how the 🤬 where the 50's and 60's the peak of the usa when our economy was much more powerful during the 90's early 2000's???? and i said more about the 70's than the 80's 🤬 epidemic

    during the 60's american society was also much much more racially divided violently so,

    during the 50's and 60's we were also fighting a cold war with a nuclear nation so we were not the premier world power we were one of two superpowers. Today america is THE SUPERPOWER

    As time went by, and the preceding decads FROM the 50's became harder economically (70's 80's) people began to look at the 50's as some ideal time but in reality it was far from the best decade only the most expansive for american power.

    We can agree America has seen worse times (as a whole) but America's debt has never been bigger then now. More people are on food stamps then ever, in fact more people are on social welfare programs then anytime in American history. For the "richest" nation in the world to have 50 million people on food stamps is nothing short of amazing. Most public school kids are in free lunch programs now, that wasn't the case in the 90s.

    Our politicians got greedy for votes and power, and that's part of the problem when it comes to the out of control pensions here, which is also bankrupting states. America's state pensions are bankrupting states across the nation and while America can survive that, it's ONLY because it has reserve currency status. That's the reason so many people, including economists, say America is on shaky ground if it can't control its spending. We think inflation is bad now but if we keep spending money the way we are, it's gonna be a horror show in 10-15 years.

    How many times do we have to have this debt discussion?? Inflation is not necessarily a bad thing because it can weaken a currency that is too strong.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You cannot hang the decline of a country simply on it's middle-class that's just a ridiculous statement
  • gns
    gns Bleeding 24/7 Members Posts: 21,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So nations get to be indebted to China now as opposed to the US, ok cool
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    The USA has problems but to say we are in decline is an overreach because most the fully developed first world nations of size have shrinking middle classes.

    America isn't in a free fall situation, but America's strong middle class is being hollowed out by a lot. That's happened to other nations of similar size but America has 360 million people, if too many people get squeezed out of the middle class and join the poor, then that means a hell of alot of poor and desperate people walking around. And that means expanding the already overstretched welfare and food stamp programs.

    It's not a HUGE decline so far, but it's enough to make economists take notice. America needs to spend its resources better.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @aggyaf you never answered the question. Was America better during the 80's or 70's

    Overall yes

    Lol i can't respect your opinion after reading that that you clearly don't know what the 🤬 you are talking about

    the 80's had a 🤬 epidemic and high unemployment and high inflation

    the 70's had a recession that lasted for almost 4 years and the effects of it did not go away for years after it officially ended. It also had high unemployment and it was during the 70's that america really began to get it's bad rep in the middle east with iran.

    right now, today the american stock market has been climbing the american dollar is strong and employment is increasing and the deficit is dropping, our economy has only begun to really strengthen and whoever becomes the next president is going to be very popular because the american economy will most likely only improve.

    today unemployment is around 5 % during the 70's it was almost 11%

    you're generalizing 20 years based off the 🤬 epidemic (which didn't really affect white people who are 70% of the population) and stagflation. in the 70s, the US was still the premier power in the world

    the 70s and 80s was the start of America's decline, US was at its peak from the 50s and 60s

    i don't really care to argue all week about this either, you enjoy your improving US lol

    You cannot argue because you don't know what the hell you are talking about how the 🤬 where the 50's and 60's the peak of the usa when our economy was much more powerful during the 90's early 2000's???? and i said more about the 70's than the 80's 🤬 epidemic

    during the 60's american society was also much much more racially divided violently so,

    during the 50's and 60's we were also fighting a cold war with a nuclear nation so we were not the premier world power we were one of two superpowers. Today america is THE SUPERPOWER

    As time went by, and the preceding decads FROM the 50's became harder economically (70's 80's) people began to look at the 50's as some ideal time but in reality it was far from the best decade only the most expansive for american power.

    We can agree America has seen worse times (as a whole) but America's debt has never been bigger then now. More people are on food stamps then ever, in fact more people are on social welfare programs then anytime in American history. For the "richest" nation in the world to have 50 million people on food stamps is nothing short of amazing. Most public school kids are in free lunch programs now, that wasn't the case in the 90s.

    Our politicians got greedy for votes and power, and that's part of the problem when it comes to the out of control pensions here, which is also bankrupting states. America's state pensions are bankrupting states across the nation and while America can survive that, it's ONLY because it has reserve currency status. That's the reason so many people, including economists, say America is on shaky ground if it can't control its spending. We think inflation is bad now but if we keep spending money the way we are, it's gonna be a horror show in 10-15 years.

    How many times do we have to have this debt discussion?? Inflation is not necessarily a bad thing because it can weaken a currency that is too strong.

    Inflation is a disaster for people on fixed incomes, like seniors and the disabled though. Even more so for the poor out there. You think most Americans want to pay higher prices for food, daycare, and housing? The dollar doesn't go as far as it used to, it's bigger then supply and demand. That's why America needs to watch its spending, for the inevitable day when the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency.
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Ok fair enough, I wonder how far China's influence will go with the AIIB bank, and how often they will NOT use the dollar. Russia I'm sure is gonna push the bank to use the dollar as little as possible....
    China DOES sort of have a financial investment in the dollar.

    if you asked me, i would presume this is more about China having greater regional influence, especially since the US is always threatening to pivot to Asia or reset to Asia or SOMETHING... but wait, this is about economics, so i wouldn't ask me, i guess.

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    janklow wrote: »
    Ok fair enough, I wonder how far China's influence will go with the AIIB bank, and how often they will NOT use the dollar. Russia I'm sure is gonna push the bank to use the dollar as little as possible....
    China DOES sort of have a financial investment in the dollar.

    if you asked me, i would presume this is more about China having greater regional influence, especially since the US is always threatening to pivot to Asia or reset to Asia or SOMETHING... but wait, this is about economics, so i wouldn't ask me, i guess.

    It is about China having greater regional influence, and other nations who will try to expand their influence as well. China is gonna come under pressure from American enemies like Russia and Iran to use American dollars less as long as the sanctions for those two nations continue.

    Whether China agrees to do this A LOT is going to be an important question in the future. I WILL say this, if America gets on China's bad side too often, China will listen to Russia and Iran a lot more....
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Whether China agrees to do this A LOT is going to be an important question in the future. I WILL say this, if America gets on China's bad side too often, China will listen to Russia and Iran a lot more....
    China getting on our bad side doesn't mean we start saying "🤬 the economic 🤬 , let's have DRAMA," so there's like to be some converse of that. they're perfectly happy to 🤬 Russia for resources at cut-rate prices, but that's a little different.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    China is asking the IMF (International Monetary Fund) to allow China's currency the Yuan to become a world reserve currency, alongside the dollar.....more confirmation that China and its allies are seeking to lower world dependence on the dollar. If America's allies support this move too (remember a whole bunch of them rushed to join the bank, so they want to keep China in good graces) then the dollar will be used even less then I expected in the near future. Uh oh......

    http://thebricspost.com/china-imf-talks-underway-to-endorse-yuan-as-global-reserve-currency/#.VSAU9JVFDIU

    China is pushing for the International Monetary Fund to endorse the Chinese yuan as a global reserve currency alongside the dollar and euro.

    A senior Chinese central bank official said Thursday that the country is “actively communicating” with the IMF on the possibility of including the yuan, or RMB, in the basket of the Special Drawing Rights (SDRs).

    Including the yuan in the SDR system would allow the IMF to recognize the ascent of the world’s second-biggest economy while aiding China’s attempts to diminish the dollar’s dominance in global trade and finance.

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    janklow wrote: »
    Whether China agrees to do this A LOT is going to be an important question in the future. I WILL say this, if America gets on China's bad side too often, China will listen to Russia and Iran a lot more....
    China getting on our bad side doesn't mean we start saying "🤬 the economic 🤬 , let's have DRAMA," so there's like to be some converse of that. they're perfectly happy to 🤬 Russia for resources at cut-rate prices, but that's a little different.

    I can agree to a degree but we know how American politicians are. They're known for creating drama throughout the world. So if America 🤬 China off a lot, even accidentally, it very well might mean China acts in an unpredictable way. They've already told the world they don't want more sanctions on Iran, and they've also told America they don't want more sanctions on Russia. If America keeps rocking China's boat on these subjects and others, China will without a doubt push other nations to find ways to weaken America's currency even more. Or worse


  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Queer LGBT CommunityMembers Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    You cannot hang the decline of a country simply on it's middle-class that's just a ridiculous statement

    Why not?
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    If America keeps rocking China's boat on these subjects and others, China will without a doubt push other nations to find ways to weaken America's currency even more. Or worse
    problem is, the things you're saying there also 🤬 over ... China

    right now you have a situation in Asia where China's bad behavior costs them influence with other Asian nations. anything they can do (regional banking, i guess) that can help them out is probably going to be explored.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    janklow wrote: »
    If America keeps rocking China's boat on these subjects and others, China will without a doubt push other nations to find ways to weaken America's currency even more. Or worse
    problem is, the things you're saying there also 🤬 over ... China

    right now you have a situation in Asia where China's bad behavior costs them influence with other Asian nations. anything they can do (regional banking, i guess) that can help them out is probably going to be explored.

    Yeah America could 🤬 over China in retaliation, that's the wild card America definitely has, knowing its history. America could get support from some of the Asian nations but China would have a lot of support too. Not sure which side of the support would win out in the long term.

    Do you think the IMF will give China's currency world reserve status this year, alongside the dollar?
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Do you think the IMF will give China's currency world reserve status this year, alongside the dollar?
    nah but it's not like i can show my work on this contention