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Is the NBA on its way to a collapse?

bow to royalty
bow to royalty Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited June 2015 in From the Cheap Seats
This thread is a spinoff from the thread about NBA lacking superstars.

The NBA is doing really well now. The ratings for these finals are through the roof. The league is pulling in international players. The global market is growing. All's well...now the other side.

The NBA doesn't have much in the way of superstars (It has 2. Kobe Bryant...Lebron James). Say what you want about whoever else you want. Then go ask the middle aged ladies at work about Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, etc. Your grandma recognizes the names Lebron and Kobe. The problem with this is the NBA is a league VERY dependent on superstars, Lebron is 30, and the next guy to reach his level of stardom hasn't emerged yet. So with the decline of Lebron, so goes the decline of the NBA. The impact? Look at what the NBA Finals ratings would have been like with the Hawks in instead of the Cavs.

Is the NBA's dependence on superstars about to come back and bite it in the ass?


Side note NFL>>>NBA
«13

Comments

  • The Iconoclast
    The Iconoclast harbinger of existential angst Members Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, in fact the global participation and interest in the sport of basketball is on the rise.

    Now in the near future will we see a younger player(s) emerge that can match the socio-cultural and global impact of a Lebron and Kobe? I don't know, that's an interesting question that one could make an argument for on both sides, but the NBA will be fine moving forward.
  • Negro_Caesar
    Negro_Caesar Fuck Bitches Get Money Members Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nah nba is strong as evee
  • Negro_Caesar
    Negro_Caesar Fuck Bitches Get Money Members Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Neophyte Wolfgang
    Neophyte Wolfgang Members Posts: 4,169 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A player will emerge look at Lebron, they are trying to force him to be better then jordan through marketing he's a puppet in a bigger scheme
  • HustleThaDon
    HustleThaDon 713 or nothing Houston Members Posts: 28,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    O.G. wrote: »
    This thread is a spinoff from the thread about NBA lacking superstars.

    The NBA is doing really well now. The ratings for these finals are through the roof. The league is pulling in international players. The global market is growing. All's well.

    The NFL doesn't have much in the way of superstars (It has 2. Peyton Manning...Tom Brady). Say what you want about whoever else you want. Then go ask the middle aged ladies at work about Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, J.J. Watts, etc. Your grandma recognizes the names Manning and Brady. The problem with this is the NFL is a league VERY dependent on superstars and drama, Peyton is 39, Brady is 37 and the next guy to reach their level of stardom hasn't emerged yet. So with the decline of Brady, so goes the decline of the NFL. The impact? Look at what the Super Bowl ratings would have been like with the Ravens in instead of the Pats. (for the record Ravens vs Niners at the time was the third most-viewed program in television history.)

    Is the NFL's dependence on superstars about to come back and bite it in the ass?


    Side note NFL>>>NBA when it comes to viewers bcuz it is on all three networks and two cable stations.

    Fixed.

    See how silly it sounds if you just change the sport and names. Every year during the finals casual fans prepare the eulogy for the NBA's pending funeral. In your very first sentence you said how the sport is growing. You mean to tell me just bcuz Kobe retires the league will be on life support? News Flash: Kobe has not played meaningful basketball in quite awhile now, yet the sport continues to thrive. That "superstar" narrative is so overrated. The game makes superstars, superstars don't make the game. The Finals are when casuals critique a game they haven't watched all year long. It's been that way since Chuck Taylor was the shoe of choice by the players.

    Close thread
  • bow to royalty
    bow to royalty Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, in fact the global participation and interest in the sport of basketball is on the rise.

    Now in the near future will we see a younger player(s) emerge that can match the socio-cultural and global impact of a Lebron and Kobe? I don't know, that's an interesting question that one could make an argument for on both sides, but the NBA will be fine moving forward.
    A player will emerge look at Lebron, they are trying to force him to be better then jordan through marketing he's a puppet in a bigger scheme

    Ya, I know it's growing internationally. That was largely helped by Kobe and Bron. I agree it's doing really well right now. I'm looking at about 4-5 years from now. Rose, Durant, Westbrook, Griffin, Curry, CP3, Melo will all be 30 or older. Looking at the all-star roster only John Wall, Jimmy Butler, Kyrie Irving (his body may not hold up), Anthony Davis, Demarco Cousins, and Klay Thompson won't be 30 or older in the next 4 years.

    That's kinda what I'm asking. Is that marketing scheme about to backfire? Not necessarily pushing Lebron, but allowing players to be bigger than teams. Pretty much all NFL and MLB teams fans remain regardless of roster. That allows them to remain strong even after players leave.
  • bow to royalty
    bow to royalty Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    O.G. wrote: »
    This thread is a spinoff from the thread about NBA lacking superstars.

    The NBA is doing really well now. The ratings for these finals are through the roof. The league is pulling in international players. The global market is growing. All's well.

    The NFL doesn't have much in the way of superstars (It has 2. Peyton Manning...Tom Brady). Say what you want about whoever else you want. Then go ask the middle aged ladies at work about Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, J.J. Watts, etc. Your grandma recognizes the names Manning and Brady. The problem with this is the NFL is a league VERY dependent on superstars and drama, Peyton is 39, Brady is 37 and the next guy to reach their level of stardom hasn't emerged yet. So with the decline of Brady, so goes the decline of the NFL. The impact? Look at what the Super Bowl ratings would have been like with the Ravens in instead of the Pats. (for the record Ravens vs Niners at the time was the third most-viewed program in television history.)

    Is the NFL's dependence on superstars about to come back and bite it in the ass?


    Side note NFL>>>NBA when it comes to viewers bcuz it is on all three networks and two cable stations.

    Fixed.

    See how silly it sounds if you just change the sport and names. Every year during the finals casual fans prepare the eulogy for the NBA's pending funeral. In your very first sentence you said how the sport is growing. You mean to tell me just bcuz Kobe retires the league will be on life support? News Flash: Kobe has not played meaningful basketball in quite awhile now, yet the sport continues to thrive. That "superstar" narrative is so overrated. The game makes superstars, superstars don't make the game. The Finals are when casuals critique a game they haven't watched all year long. It's been that way since Chuck Taylor was the shoe of choice by the players.
    44Since88 wrote: »
    O.G. wrote: »
    This thread is a spinoff from the thread about NBA lacking superstars.

    The NBA is doing really well now. The ratings for these finals are through the roof. The league is pulling in international players. The global market is growing. All's well.

    The NFL doesn't have much in the way of superstars (It has 2. Peyton Manning...Tom Brady). Say what you want about whoever else you want. Then go ask the middle aged ladies at work about Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, J.J. Watts, etc. Your grandma recognizes the names Manning and Brady. The problem with this is the NFL is a league VERY dependent on superstars and drama, Peyton is 39, Brady is 37 and the next guy to reach their level of stardom hasn't emerged yet. So with the decline of Brady, so goes the decline of the NFL. The impact? Look at what the Super Bowl ratings would have been like with the Ravens in instead of the Pats. (for the record Ravens vs Niners at the time was the third most-viewed program in television history.)

    Is the NFL's dependence on superstars about to come back and bite it in the ass?


    Side note NFL>>>NBA when it comes to viewers bcuz it is on all three networks and two cable stations.

    Fixed.

    See how silly it sounds if you just change the sport and names. Every year during the finals casual fans prepare the eulogy for the NBA's pending funeral. In your very first sentence you said how the sport is growing. You mean to tell me just bcuz Kobe retires the league will be on life support? News Flash: Kobe has not played meaningful basketball in quite awhile now, yet the sport continues to thrive. That "superstar" narrative is so overrated. The game makes superstars, superstars don't make the game. The Finals are when casuals critique a game they haven't watched all year long. It's been that way since Chuck Taylor was the shoe of choice by the players.

    Close thread

    haha, the 🤬 sounds silly because it doesn't make sense. The dog flew over the house. See how silly it sounds if you just change the animal from bird to dog? Doesn't mean "the bird flew over the house" isn't true. The NFL isn't dependent on superstars. Like you said the Ravens 9ers SB, had huge ratings. It was the most watched SB in history, beating out another SB that didn't have Peyton or Brady in it. Let any combo of the NFC/AFC Championship teams play and ratings stay great. Packers vs Pats/Colts...Seahawks vs Pats/Colts. Numbers are good regardless. Take Cavs out the finals and the ratings plummet. Or you think Warriors vs Hawks would do similar numbers?

    Ya the league is striving. I said the NBA is doing really well right now. I dunno how people aren't seeing that. The league is still striving because of Lebron though. Before Kobe stopped playing in meaningful games Lebron was clearly a superstar. He had become as big of a star as Kobe. Don't forget Kobe won back-to-back finals, then Lebron had The Decision press conference before the next season.

    You're talking about the quality of the game. I'm glad you enjoy it man...there's talent. I'm talking about from a business standpoint. The Superstar narrative isn't overrated. It's real...the league desperately needs it. The NBA needs it much more than the NFL.
  • bow to royalty
    bow to royalty Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anthony Davis will be the next superstar. League will be fine

    You may be right. But people may have said the same about Rose, Howard, Durant, and others at a time.
  • O.G.
    O.G. GUILTY BY AFFILIATION. Members Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2015
    O.G. wrote: »
    This thread is a spinoff from the thread about NBA lacking superstars.

    The NBA is doing really well now. The ratings for these finals are through the roof. The league is pulling in international players. The global market is growing. All's well.

    The NFL doesn't have much in the way of superstars (It has 2. Peyton Manning...Tom Brady). Say what you want about whoever else you want. Then go ask the middle aged ladies at work about Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, J.J. Watts, etc. Your grandma recognizes the names Manning and Brady. The problem with this is the NFL is a league VERY dependent on superstars and drama, Peyton is 39, Brady is 37 and the next guy to reach their level of stardom hasn't emerged yet. So with the decline of Brady, so goes the decline of the NFL. The impact? Look at what the Super Bowl ratings would have been like with the Ravens in instead of the Pats. (for the record Ravens vs Niners at the time was the third most-viewed program in television history.)

    Is the NFL's dependence on superstars about to come back and bite it in the ass?


    Side note NFL>>>NBA when it comes to viewers bcuz it is on all three networks and two cable stations.

    Fixed.

    See how silly it sounds if you just change the sport and names. Every year during the finals casual fans prepare the eulogy for the NBA's pending funeral. In your very first sentence you said how the sport is growing. You mean to tell me just bcuz Kobe retires the league will be on life support? News Flash: Kobe has not played meaningful basketball in quite awhile now, yet the sport continues to thrive. That "superstar" narrative is so overrated. The game makes superstars, superstars don't make the game. The Finals are when casuals critique a game they haven't watched all year long. It's been that way since Chuck Taylor was the shoe of choice by the players.
    44Since88 wrote: »
    O.G. wrote: »
    This thread is a spinoff from the thread about NBA lacking superstars.

    The NBA is doing really well now. The ratings for these finals are through the roof. The league is pulling in international players. The global market is growing. All's well.

    The NFL doesn't have much in the way of superstars (It has 2. Peyton Manning...Tom Brady). Say what you want about whoever else you want. Then go ask the middle aged ladies at work about Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, J.J. Watts, etc. Your grandma recognizes the names Manning and Brady. The problem with this is the NFL is a league VERY dependent on superstars and drama, Peyton is 39, Brady is 37 and the next guy to reach their level of stardom hasn't emerged yet. So with the decline of Brady, so goes the decline of the NFL. The impact? Look at what the Super Bowl ratings would have been like with the Ravens in instead of the Pats. (for the record Ravens vs Niners at the time was the third most-viewed program in television history.)

    Is the NFL's dependence on superstars about to come back and bite it in the ass?


    Side note NFL>>>NBA when it comes to viewers bcuz it is on all three networks and two cable stations.

    Fixed.

    See how silly it sounds if you just change the sport and names. Every year during the finals casual fans prepare the eulogy for the NBA's pending funeral. In your very first sentence you said how the sport is growing. You mean to tell me just bcuz Kobe retires the league will be on life support? News Flash: Kobe has not played meaningful basketball in quite awhile now, yet the sport continues to thrive. That "superstar" narrative is so overrated. The game makes superstars, superstars don't make the game. The Finals are when casuals critique a game they haven't watched all year long. It's been that way since Chuck Taylor was the shoe of choice by the players.

    Close thread

    haha, the 🤬 sounds silly because it doesn't make sense. The dog flew over the house. See how silly it sounds if you just change the animal from bird to dog? Doesn't mean "the bird flew over the house" isn't true. The NFL isn't dependent on superstars. Like you said the Ravens 9ers SB, had huge ratings. It was the most watched SB in history, beating out another SB that didn't have Peyton or Brady in it. Let any combo of the NFC/AFC Championship teams play and ratings stay great. Packers vs Pats/Colts...Seahawks vs Pats/Colts. Numbers are good regardless. Take Cavs out the finals and the ratings plummet. Or you think Warriors vs Hawks would do similar numbers?

    Ya the league is striving. I said the NBA is doing really well right now. I dunno how people aren't seeing that. The league is still striving because of Lebron though. Before Kobe stopped playing in meaningful games Lebron was clearly a superstar. He had become as big of a star as Kobe. Don't forget Kobe won back-to-back finals, then Lebron had The Decision press conference before the next season.

    You're talking about the quality of the game. I'm glad you enjoy it man...there's talent. I'm talking about from a business standpoint. The Superstar narrative isn't overrated. It's real...the league desperately needs it. The NBA needs it much more than the NFL.

    The Super Bowl will always put up numbers bcuz it is the only damn thing on TV for that day. The show goes head to head with reruns. It's a once a year game not best of seven. Half the casuals who watch the game admit they watch for the commercials. It's an event. Regardless what the ratings are the NBA is not going anywhere. Who the 🤬 cares about ratings anyway? Why should I care if my neighbors or some family in Montana is watching the finals? As long as I am watching the Finals, I'm good. If they went the NHL rout and bounced the Finals between cable and regular TV it would not matter. The real fans will watch it anyway. Finals rating are not a true gauge if the league is thriving. The Finals will not get discontinued when Lebron retires. It just means that the media will have to force another "superstar" on casual fans and you 🤬 will eat it up whIle the league continues to thrive.

    Long paragraph short. The NBA is more than just The Finals just Like The NFL is more than just the Super Bowl.
  • Beta
    Beta #FastFamily Members Posts: 65,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But Durant IS a superstar....

    This thread is....*phew* idk what to say
  • Mister B.
    Mister B. Still the Devil's #1 Advocate. Come on out that box! Members, Writer Posts: 16,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Saying the NFL>>>NBA isn't saying much. NFL>>>every sport in America, and only trails World Cup Soccer as the most lucrative league on the planet.

    The 'A has waay too many stars and superstars to go down. If even Bron-Bron retired, there's like 5-10 guys that are legit mega-star capable.
  • bow to royalty
    bow to royalty Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    O.G. wrote: »
    O.G. wrote: »
    This thread is a spinoff from the thread about NBA lacking superstars.

    The NBA is doing really well now. The ratings for these finals are through the roof. The league is pulling in international players. The global market is growing. All's well.

    The NFL doesn't have much in the way of superstars (It has 2. Peyton Manning...Tom Brady). Say what you want about whoever else you want. Then go ask the middle aged ladies at work about Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, J.J. Watts, etc. Your grandma recognizes the names Manning and Brady. The problem with this is the NFL is a league VERY dependent on superstars and drama, Peyton is 39, Brady is 37 and the next guy to reach their level of stardom hasn't emerged yet. So with the decline of Brady, so goes the decline of the NFL. The impact? Look at what the Super Bowl ratings would have been like with the Ravens in instead of the Pats. (for the record Ravens vs Niners at the time was the third most-viewed program in television history.)

    Is the NFL's dependence on superstars about to come back and bite it in the ass?


    Side note NFL>>>NBA when it comes to viewers bcuz it is on all three networks and two cable stations.

    Fixed.

    See how silly it sounds if you just change the sport and names. Every year during the finals casual fans prepare the eulogy for the NBA's pending funeral. In your very first sentence you said how the sport is growing. You mean to tell me just bcuz Kobe retires the league will be on life support? News Flash: Kobe has not played meaningful basketball in quite awhile now, yet the sport continues to thrive. That "superstar" narrative is so overrated. The game makes superstars, superstars don't make the game. The Finals are when casuals critique a game they haven't watched all year long. It's been that way since Chuck Taylor was the shoe of choice by the players.
    44Since88 wrote: »
    O.G. wrote: »
    This thread is a spinoff from the thread about NBA lacking superstars.

    The NBA is doing really well now. The ratings for these finals are through the roof. The league is pulling in international players. The global market is growing. All's well.

    The NFL doesn't have much in the way of superstars (It has 2. Peyton Manning...Tom Brady). Say what you want about whoever else you want. Then go ask the middle aged ladies at work about Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, J.J. Watts, etc. Your grandma recognizes the names Manning and Brady. The problem with this is the NFL is a league VERY dependent on superstars and drama, Peyton is 39, Brady is 37 and the next guy to reach their level of stardom hasn't emerged yet. So with the decline of Brady, so goes the decline of the NFL. The impact? Look at what the Super Bowl ratings would have been like with the Ravens in instead of the Pats. (for the record Ravens vs Niners at the time was the third most-viewed program in television history.)

    Is the NFL's dependence on superstars about to come back and bite it in the ass?


    Side note NFL>>>NBA when it comes to viewers bcuz it is on all three networks and two cable stations.

    Fixed.

    See how silly it sounds if you just change the sport and names. Every year during the finals casual fans prepare the eulogy for the NBA's pending funeral. In your very first sentence you said how the sport is growing. You mean to tell me just bcuz Kobe retires the league will be on life support? News Flash: Kobe has not played meaningful basketball in quite awhile now, yet the sport continues to thrive. That "superstar" narrative is so overrated. The game makes superstars, superstars don't make the game. The Finals are when casuals critique a game they haven't watched all year long. It's been that way since Chuck Taylor was the shoe of choice by the players.

    Close thread

    haha, the 🤬 sounds silly because it doesn't make sense. The dog flew over the house. See how silly it sounds if you just change the animal from bird to dog? Doesn't mean "the bird flew over the house" isn't true. The NFL isn't dependent on superstars. Like you said the Ravens 9ers SB, had huge ratings. It was the most watched SB in history, beating out another SB that didn't have Peyton or Brady in it. Let any combo of the NFC/AFC Championship teams play and ratings stay great. Packers vs Pats/Colts...Seahawks vs Pats/Colts. Numbers are good regardless. Take Cavs out the finals and the ratings plummet. Or you think Warriors vs Hawks would do similar numbers?

    Ya the league is striving. I said the NBA is doing really well right now. I dunno how people aren't seeing that. The league is still striving because of Lebron though. Before Kobe stopped playing in meaningful games Lebron was clearly a superstar. He had become as big of a star as Kobe. Don't forget Kobe won back-to-back finals, then Lebron had The Decision press conference before the next season.

    You're talking about the quality of the game. I'm glad you enjoy it man...there's talent. I'm talking about from a business standpoint. The Superstar narrative isn't overrated. It's real...the league desperately needs it. The NBA needs it much more than the NFL.

    The Super Bowl will always put up numbers bcuz it is the only damn thing on TV for that day. The show goes head to head with reruns. It's a once a year game not best of seven. Half the casuals who watch the game admit they watch for the commercials. It's an event. Regardless what the ratings are the NBA is not going anywhere. Who the 🤬 cares about ratings anyway? Why should I care if my neighbors or some family in Montana is watching the finals? As long as I am watching the Finals, I'm good. If they went the NHL rout and bounced the Finals between cable and regular TV it would not matter. The real fans will watch it anyway. Finals rating are not a true gauge if the league is thriving. The Finals will not get discontinued when Lebron retires. It just means that the media will have to force another "superstar" on casual fans and you 🤬 will eat it up whole the league continues to thrive.

    Long paragraph short. The NBA is more than just The Finals just Like The NFL is more than just the Super Bowl.

    You're missing the point. I'm talking about a business, you're bringing up love of the game. The NBA cares about ratings, the networks care about ratings, and even the players care about ratings. I don't think the superstars are THAT forced. Since 2000 Kobe, Shaq, Bron, Duncan (great but less star power) are all some of the GOATS , so they earned their stardom. All went to multiple finals and won multiple rings.
  • bow to royalty
    bow to royalty Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Beta wrote: »
    But Durant IS a superstar....

    This thread is....*phew* idk what to say

    Shaq, Kobe, Bron, AI too I suppose...Durant isn't at that level of superstar. By superstars I mean popularity, not talent.
    Mister B. wrote: »
    Saying the NFL>>>NBA isn't saying much. NFL>>>every sport in America, and only trails World Cup Soccer as the most lucrative league on the planet.

    The 'A has waay too many stars and superstars to go down. If even Bron-Bron retired, there's like 5-10 guys that are legit mega-star capable.

    I said that just to mess y'all, haha. But the business model is better IMO. That many people being able to fill the Bron void seems generous.

  • O.G.
    O.G. GUILTY BY AFFILIATION. Members Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭✭✭
    O.G. wrote: »
    O.G. wrote: »
    This thread is a spinoff from the thread about NBA lacking superstars.

    The NBA is doing really well now. The ratings for these finals are through the roof. The league is pulling in international players. The global market is growing. All's well.

    The NFL doesn't have much in the way of superstars (It has 2. Peyton Manning...Tom Brady). Say what you want about whoever else you want. Then go ask the middle aged ladies at work about Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, J.J. Watts, etc. Your grandma recognizes the names Manning and Brady. The problem with this is the NFL is a league VERY dependent on superstars and drama, Peyton is 39, Brady is 37 and the next guy to reach their level of stardom hasn't emerged yet. So with the decline of Brady, so goes the decline of the NFL. The impact? Look at what the Super Bowl ratings would have been like with the Ravens in instead of the Pats. (for the record Ravens vs Niners at the time was the third most-viewed program in television history.)

    Is the NFL's dependence on superstars about to come back and bite it in the ass?


    Side note NFL>>>NBA when it comes to viewers bcuz it is on all three networks and two cable stations.

    Fixed.

    See how silly it sounds if you just change the sport and names. Every year during the finals casual fans prepare the eulogy for the NBA's pending funeral. In your very first sentence you said how the sport is growing. You mean to tell me just bcuz Kobe retires the league will be on life support? News Flash: Kobe has not played meaningful basketball in quite awhile now, yet the sport continues to thrive. That "superstar" narrative is so overrated. The game makes superstars, superstars don't make the game. The Finals are when casuals critique a game they haven't watched all year long. It's been that way since Chuck Taylor was the shoe of choice by the players.
    44Since88 wrote: »
    O.G. wrote: »
    This thread is a spinoff from the thread about NBA lacking superstars.

    The NBA is doing really well now. The ratings for these finals are through the roof. The league is pulling in international players. The global market is growing. All's well.

    The NFL doesn't have much in the way of superstars (It has 2. Peyton Manning...Tom Brady). Say what you want about whoever else you want. Then go ask the middle aged ladies at work about Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, J.J. Watts, etc. Your grandma recognizes the names Manning and Brady. The problem with this is the NFL is a league VERY dependent on superstars and drama, Peyton is 39, Brady is 37 and the next guy to reach their level of stardom hasn't emerged yet. So with the decline of Brady, so goes the decline of the NFL. The impact? Look at what the Super Bowl ratings would have been like with the Ravens in instead of the Pats. (for the record Ravens vs Niners at the time was the third most-viewed program in television history.)

    Is the NFL's dependence on superstars about to come back and bite it in the ass?


    Side note NFL>>>NBA when it comes to viewers bcuz it is on all three networks and two cable stations.

    Fixed.

    See how silly it sounds if you just change the sport and names. Every year during the finals casual fans prepare the eulogy for the NBA's pending funeral. In your very first sentence you said how the sport is growing. You mean to tell me just bcuz Kobe retires the league will be on life support? News Flash: Kobe has not played meaningful basketball in quite awhile now, yet the sport continues to thrive. That "superstar" narrative is so overrated. The game makes superstars, superstars don't make the game. The Finals are when casuals critique a game they haven't watched all year long. It's been that way since Chuck Taylor was the shoe of choice by the players.

    Close thread

    haha, the 🤬 sounds silly because it doesn't make sense. The dog flew over the house. See how silly it sounds if you just change the animal from bird to dog? Doesn't mean "the bird flew over the house" isn't true. The NFL isn't dependent on superstars. Like you said the Ravens 9ers SB, had huge ratings. It was the most watched SB in history, beating out another SB that didn't have Peyton or Brady in it. Let any combo of the NFC/AFC Championship teams play and ratings stay great. Packers vs Pats/Colts...Seahawks vs Pats/Colts. Numbers are good regardless. Take Cavs out the finals and the ratings plummet. Or you think Warriors vs Hawks would do similar numbers?

    Ya the league is striving. I said the NBA is doing really well right now. I dunno how people aren't seeing that. The league is still striving because of Lebron though. Before Kobe stopped playing in meaningful games Lebron was clearly a superstar. He had become as big of a star as Kobe. Don't forget Kobe won back-to-back finals, then Lebron had The Decision press conference before the next season.

    You're talking about the quality of the game. I'm glad you enjoy it man...there's talent. I'm talking about from a business standpoint. The Superstar narrative isn't overrated. It's real...the league desperately needs it. The NBA needs it much more than the NFL.

    The Super Bowl will always put up numbers bcuz it is the only damn thing on TV for that day. The show goes head to head with reruns. It's a once a year game not best of seven. Half the casuals who watch the game admit they watch for the commercials. It's an event. Regardless what the ratings are the NBA is not going anywhere. Who the 🤬 cares about ratings anyway? Why should I care if my neighbors or some family in Montana is watching the finals? As long as I am watching the Finals, I'm good. If they went the NHL rout and bounced the Finals between cable and regular TV it would not matter. The real fans will watch it anyway. Finals rating are not a true gauge if the league is thriving. The Finals will not get discontinued when Lebron retires. It just means that the media will have to force another "superstar" on casual fans and you 🤬 will eat it up whole the league continues to thrive.

    Long paragraph short. The NBA is more than just The Finals just Like The NFL is more than just the Super Bowl.

    You're missing the point. I'm talking about a business, you're bringing up love of the game. The NBA cares about ratings, the networks care about ratings, and even the players care about ratings. I don't think the superstars are THAT forced. Since 2000 Kobe, Shaq, Bron, Duncan (great but less star power) are all some of the GOATS , so they earned their stardom. All went to multiple finals and won multiple rings.

    You're missing the point. The Finals ratings are not the main gauge on weather or not the NBA is successful. The NBA just signed a lucrative tv deal based on guess what? That's right. What the players have been doing in the regular season on the court. That is what drives this business. Good product. New tv deals, rising salary caps and global recognition tells me that the ratings are good enough. Adam Silver>>>Roger Goodell
  • coop9889
    coop9889 Members Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's impossible to say "look at what the ratings would've been if it were *insert non-kobe/LeBron team* in the Finals"

    Because it's been a LONG time since then...

    There's a good chance Lebron will go deep in the playoffs, if not the Finals,for the next 4-5 years. And by then someone else will have emerged as "the best player in the league"
  • bow to royalty
    bow to royalty Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    coop9889 wrote: »
    It's impossible to say "look at what the ratings would've been if it were *insert non-kobe/LeBron team* in the Finals"

    Because it's been a LONG time since then...

    There's a good chance Lebron will go deep in the playoffs, if not the Finals,for the next 4-5 years. And by then someone else will have emerged as "the best player in the league"

    You're right we can't say for sure what the ratings would be. But what's your opinion? Hawks vs Warriors ratings. For reference this last game had about 19 million viewers.


  • coop9889
    coop9889 Members Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The media would be pushing Curry as the superstar so it wouldnt flop. Warriors have good marketability. But it definitely wouldn't draw as much as this current finals. Hawks Grizzlies would've been the worst draw for casual fans, although for the bball heads it probably would've been a good series.

    Let's say LeBron got hurt at the start of next season and was out for the year. I don't think the NBA would take a COMPLETE nose dive. The narrative would be "with LeBron out can the bulls finally make it out of the east" or the wizards would go far and the talk of Durant to Washington would amp up etc...

    there's always storylines and there are enough stars to keep it interesting
  • Peace_79
    Peace_79 Sion Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The premise of your argument has some merit.

    When Mike left for good, the NBA had some down years.
    But Jordan was such an immensely popular global brand, his departure would have left a gaping hole in any industry; necessitating a recovery period.

    Also, the business model for the NBA has transformed considerably since then, as has the market for how money is made in the sports arena.

    You are placing to much dependency on the superstar narrative, as @OG pointed out in last comment:
    O.G. wrote: »

    The NBA just signed a lucrative tv deal based on ... What the players have been doing in the regular season on the court. That is what drives this business. Good product. New tv deals, rising salary caps and global recognition tells me that the ratings are good enough. Adam Silver>>>Roger Goodell

    Does the NBA have the most Risk Averse business model out there?
    No

    Is it what the they have to work with?
    Yes

    Can/ will the league be successful with it, long term?
    Definitely
  • bow to royalty
    bow to royalty Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    O.G. wrote: »

    You're missing the point. The Finals ratings are not the main gauge on weather or not the NBA is successful. The NBA just signed a lucrative tv deal based on guess what? That's right. What the players have been doing in the regular season on the court. That is what drives this business. Good product. New tv deals, rising salary caps and global recognition tells me that the ratings are good enough. Adam Silver>>>Roger Goodell

    Regular season ratings are down about 10% from last year. And they're the lowest they've been since the 07-08 season. And again, I said the NBA is doing well right now. My question is about 5 years from now. What's so hard to understand about that?

    This is like me saying boxing is about to be in trouble because Floyd and Manny are old, and no one is is stepping up to bring viewers to boxing. And in reply you keep saying I'm wrong...look at the Pacquiao vs Mayweather PPV. It's the best the sport has ever seen. I'm not talking about now.
  • bow to royalty
    bow to royalty Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    coop9889 wrote: »
    In 5 years, Kobe is retired, Lebron has 4 rings and is nearing retirement. DWade might be out. CP3 might be out. Dirk is gone. Duncan is gone. Howard is near retirement. Curry, Anthony Davis, Westbrook, Harden, Blake, and Durant are running the league. Wiggins and Jabari are in their prime. Some new 🤬 from college is the new "next 🤬 " lol. Its a never ending cycle.

    We'll be good.

    In 5 years though, most of the players you just named will be older than Lebron is now, and won't get shine until after he's gone if he keeps winning rings like you're expecting. Gonna build on the hype of guys over 30? Davis, Wiggins, and Parker are the only ones under 30 in 5 years. But I'm not doubting NBA talent. Just asking which of the guys will be bigger than basketball like Lebron, Kobe, and Shaq were? Are they the next household name that has people asking "Could he be the best ever?".
  • bow to royalty
    bow to royalty Members Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Peace_79 wrote: »
    The premise of your argument has some merit.

    When Mike left for good, the NBA had some down years.
    But Jordan was such an immensely popular global brand, his departure would have left a gaping hole in any industry; necessitating a recovery period.

    Also, the business model for the NBA has transformed considerably since then, as has the market for how money is made in the sports arena.

    You are placing to much dependency on the superstar narrative, as @OG pointed out in last comment:
    O.G. wrote: »

    The NBA just signed a lucrative tv deal based on ... What the players have been doing in the regular season on the court. That is what drives this business. Good product. New tv deals, rising salary caps and global recognition tells me that the ratings are good enough. Adam Silver>>>Roger Goodell

    Does the NBA have the most Risk Averse business model out there?
    No

    Is it what the they have to work with?
    Yes

    Can/ will the league be successful with it, long term?
    Definitely

    When Mike finally left Kobe and Shaq were doing their 3-peat though. 2 of the most dominant players the league has ever seen were out there killin people. So the baton was successfully passed. But when he was gone, it hit the league.

    " The 1993 Finals between Chicago and Phoenix, with Jordan vs. Barkley, had averaged a 17.9 rating. That dipped to 12.4 in 1994 and 13.9 in 1995. When Jordan and the Bulls got back to winning Larry O’Brien trophies, the average ratings were 16.7, 16.8 and a record 18.7 in 1998 that still stands. The 1999 Finals, after Jordan’s next exit? Just 11.3."

    You're right though. My wording was too strong with collapse. The league won't go out of business. The NBA may be running into harder times after Bron leaves.
  • coop9889
    coop9889 Members Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    coop9889 wrote: »
    In 5 years, Kobe is retired, Lebron has 4 rings and is nearing retirement. DWade might be out. CP3 might be out. Dirk is gone. Duncan is gone. Howard is near retirement. Curry, Anthony Davis, Westbrook, Harden, Blake, and Durant are running the league. Wiggins and Jabari are in their prime. Some new 🤬 from college is the new "next 🤬 " lol. Its a never ending cycle.

    We'll be good.

    In 5 years though, most of the players you just named will be older than Lebron is now, and won't get shine until after he's gone if he keeps winning rings like you're expecting. Gonna build on the hype of guys over 30? Davis, Wiggins, and Parker are the only ones under 30 in 5 years. But I'm not doubting NBA talent. Just asking which of the guys will be bigger than basketball like Lebron, Kobe, and Shaq were? Are they the next household name that has people asking "Could he be the best ever?".

    Interesting. After Lebron retires I highly doubt there will be another clear-cut "best player in the league" in contention for the mt. rushmore of the nba. After MJ, it was ONLY Kobe and Lebron. I already think it's too late for Durant, and Anthony Davis? I don't see it happening.

    So yeah no, I don't foresee the 'superstar of the superstars' emerging anytime soon.