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Christians, How long have we been "living in the last days?"

13567

Comments

  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    zzombie wrote: »
    VIBE wrote: »
    It's odd, really, about how everything needs to fall into place, why does it work like that?

    1. The increase of sin - why? Why wait for it to get worse? It seems as if the writers of the bible have written the cliché movie script. As soon as everything goes to 🤬 , here comes the hero to save the day. Why wouldn't 🤬 just save his people before the 🤬 hits the fan?

    2. If the increase of sin is a sign, and violence, wars, homosexuality, 🤬 etc are apart of it, why do religious people get scared and try to prevent same-sex marriage from happening? If it's "all apart of the plan/everything is for a reason", why fight against it.

    3. The Anti-Christ - makes no sense, because essentially, anyone who is against 🤬 is an "antichrist", and there's been millions of them. People are truly awaiting on a demon-baby/child/man? If it's according to "his will", why is everyone so scared of this guy?

    The list can go on as to how silly everything is. I can't fathom how an "all-loving" being can kick back his recliner and watch everything go to 🤬 , knowing every outcome, then decide, meh, I'll save you now.

    Imagine a leader like that. Imagine the president knows there will be a catastrophic attack, yet does nothing to notify anyone, or put any effort into stopping it. Then, after millions have died, he comes forth and "saves" people.

    He would be an evil individual.

    Why is 🤬 not in that same evil category?

    Because we have freewill and the future is largely open
    You mentioned free will. I think it's paradoxical to say anyone has free will if 🤬 has already chosen our destinies. Christianity reeks of fatalism.

    🤬 has not chosen your destiny but he has created a destiny for you
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    VIBE wrote: »
    It's odd, really, about how everything needs to fall into place, why does it work like that?

    1. The increase of sin - why? Why wait for it to get worse? It seems as if the writers of the bible have written the cliché movie script. As soon as everything goes to 🤬 , here comes the hero to save the day. Why wouldn't 🤬 just save his people before the 🤬 hits the fan?

    2. If the increase of sin is a sign, and violence, wars, homosexuality, 🤬 etc are apart of it, why do religious people get scared and try to prevent same-sex marriage from happening? If it's "all apart of the plan/everything is for a reason", why fight against it.

    3. The Anti-Christ - makes no sense, because essentially, anyone who is against 🤬 is an "antichrist", and there's been millions of them. People are truly awaiting on a demon-baby/child/man? If it's according to "his will", why is everyone so scared of this guy?

    The list can go on as to how silly everything is. I can't fathom how an "all-loving" being can kick back his recliner and watch everything go to 🤬 , knowing every outcome, then decide, meh, I'll save you now.

    Imagine a leader like that. Imagine the president knows there will be a catastrophic attack, yet does nothing to notify anyone, or put any effort into stopping it. Then, after millions have died, he comes forth and "saves" people.

    He would be an evil individual.

    Why is 🤬 not in that same evil category?

    Because we have freewill and the future is largely open
    You mentioned free will. I think it's paradoxical to say anyone has free will if 🤬 has already chosen our destinies. Christianity reeks of fatalism.

    But he hasn't he knows how our lives will be but does not control it in anyway. More like a watcher
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Chief Petty Officer of the Ill Community Naval Command HOOYAHMembers Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you pave a road and split it so it diverges into two different directions, you have chosen two paths for any traveler go down. The fact that they can chose between one or the other doesn't take away from the fact that they were given two predetermined choices in the first place.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 On the shoulders of Giants and Elders in history UniverseMembers Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you pave a road and split it so it diverges into two different directions, you have chosen two paths for any traveler go down. The fact that they can chose between one or the other doesn't take away from the fact that they were given two predetermined choices in the first place.

    Basically it isn't free will, meaning you have multiple directions to go into. In reality with Christianity you either choose 🤬 or Satan which is the same as Democrat or Republican truthfully. So it's not free will but a choice lay down or get down.
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you pave a road and split it so it diverges into two different directions, you have chosen two paths for any traveler go down. The fact that they can chose between one or the other doesn't take away from the fact that they were given two predetermined choices in the first place.

    The choices are not predetermined we choose the road
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    If you pave a road and split it so it diverges into two different directions, you have chosen two paths for any traveler go down. The fact that they can chose between one or the other doesn't take away from the fact that they were given two predetermined choices in the first place.

    Basically it isn't free will, meaning you have multiple directions to go into. In reality with Christianity you either choose 🤬 or Satan which is the same as Democrat or Republican truthfully. So it's not free will but a choice lay down or get down.

    Unless you are an occult satanist you cannot choose the devil

    The choices are 🤬 or yourself what people don't understand is that when 🤬 finally decides to turn away from this world and his light and protection are gone, that this will be the equivalent of hell on earth.

  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 On the shoulders of Giants and Elders in history UniverseMembers Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    If you pave a road and split it so it diverges into two different directions, you have chosen two paths for any traveler go down. The fact that they can chose between one or the other doesn't take away from the fact that they were given two predetermined choices in the first place.

    Basically it isn't free will, meaning you have multiple directions to go into. In reality with Christianity you either choose 🤬 or Satan which is the same as Democrat or Republican truthfully. So it's not free will but a choice lay down or get down.

    Unless you are an occult satanist you cannot choose the devil

    The choices are 🤬 or yourself what people don't understand is that when 🤬 finally decides to turn away from this world and his light and protection are gone, that this will be the equivalent of hell on earth.

    Well, there goes my analogy. Cause the devil really can't do 🤬 like in Job only with permission of Yahweh.
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    If you pave a road and split it so it diverges into two different directions, you have chosen two paths for any traveler go down. The fact that they can chose between one or the other doesn't take away from the fact that they were given two predetermined choices in the first place.

    Basically it isn't free will, meaning you have multiple directions to go into. In reality with Christianity you either choose 🤬 or Satan which is the same as Democrat or Republican truthfully. So it's not free will but a choice lay down or get down.

    Unless you are an occult satanist you cannot choose the devil

    The choices are 🤬 or yourself what people don't understand is that when 🤬 finally decides to turn away from this world and his light and protection are gone, that this will be the equivalent of hell on earth.

    Well, there goes my analogy. Cause the devil really can't do 🤬 like in Job only with permission of Yahweh.

    PERMISSION has to be given by you to both 🤬 OR DEVIL for you to be supernaturally harmed or blessed it's not like satan has to ask only 🤬 to do anything if you allow him in then he's in but if you allow 🤬 in there will be no space for him

    If you read the story of job close enough you will notice that job was so good that the only way the devil could get to him was by asking 🤬 BECAUSE job had already given himself to 🤬 so 🤬 put special protections around job so using him for your analogy may not be a good example.
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Chief Petty Officer of the Ill Community Naval Command HOOYAHMembers Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LOL That is such a compromised interpretation of Job.

    The story of Job is much less a testament to man's faith and more the relationship and dynamic between Adonai and the Satan. If Job was so good, G-d wouldn't have brought him up in conversation in the first place as a target for the Adversary. And in said conversation, the wager was that Job would curse his g-d if everything was taken from him. Of course he can't curse anything if he's dead so duh, he wasn't going to be killed. But he was stricken ill.
    zzombie wrote: »
    If you pave a road and split it so it diverges into two different directions, you have chosen two paths for any traveler go down. The fact that they can chose between one or the other doesn't take away from the fact that they were given two predetermined choices in the first place.

    The choices are not predetermined we choose the road
    Really? Heaven and Hell aren't the predetermined destinations for you to choose from?
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LOL That is such a compromised interpretation of Job.

    The story of Job is much less a testament to man's faith and more the relationship and dynamic between Adonai and the Satan. If Job was so good, G-d wouldn't have brought him up in conversation in the first place as a target for the Adversary. And in said conversation, the wager was that Job would curse his g-d if everything was taken from him. Of course he can't curse anything if he's dead so duh, he wasn't going to be killed. But he was stricken ill.
    zzombie wrote: »
    If you pave a road and split it so it diverges into two different directions, you have chosen two paths for any traveler go down. The fact that they can chose between one or the other doesn't take away from the fact that they were given two predetermined choices in the first place.

    The choices are not predetermined we choose the road
    Really? Heaven and Hell aren't the predetermined destinations for you to choose from?

    I was talking about our choices in life those choices are ours to make and to me it always seemed that 🤬 was actually bragging about how much job loved him.. no one is predetermined to go to heaven or hell because we choose which one we end up in
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If 🤬 creates your destiny, isn't that the absence of free will?

    Why is it if something is "good" in someone's life, then that was "🤬 's will/plan/purpose/reason", over something "bad" not having anything to do with 🤬 ?

    It seems as if -

    doing good = no free will, because in that, it was always 🤬 's plan.

    doing bad = free will because the blame can't fall on 🤬 , 🤬 would never plan this for you, it's your choice.

    It's all nitpicking as to what, and how, everything fits.

  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VIBE wrote: »
    If 🤬 creates your destiny, isn't that the absence of free will?

    Why is it if something is "good" in someone's life, then that was "🤬 's will/plan/purpose/reason", over something "bad" not having anything to do with 🤬 ?

    It seems as if -

    doing good = no free will, because in that, it was always 🤬 's plan.

    doing bad = free will because the blame can't fall on 🤬 , 🤬 would never plan this for you, it's your choice.

    It's all nitpicking as to what, and how, everything fits.

    🤬 does not force you to do good or evil.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    If you pave a road and split it so it diverges into two different directions, you have chosen two paths for any traveler go down. The fact that they can chose between one or the other doesn't take away from the fact that they were given two predetermined choices in the first place.

    You nailed it. It's a phony choice, and in the end, choices are not created equally. Free will is not always a reality in the type of world we live in.

    Think of the choices Donald Trump's or Michael Jordan's kids will have in life, compared to the choices a poor widow with 5 kids has if they live in a earthquake or tsunami disaster zone. Some of those kids might end up living a life of crime to survive, as happens every day around the world. That's not free will at all, that's called being set up.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    zzombie wrote: »
    VIBE wrote: »
    If 🤬 creates your destiny, isn't that the absence of free will?

    Why is it if something is "good" in someone's life, then that was "🤬 's will/plan/purpose/reason", over something "bad" not having anything to do with 🤬 ?

    It seems as if -

    doing good = no free will, because in that, it was always 🤬 's plan.

    doing bad = free will because the blame can't fall on 🤬 , 🤬 would never plan this for you, it's your choice.

    It's all nitpicking as to what, and how, everything fits.

    🤬 does not force you to do good or evil.

    Is someone being a non-Christian or non-religious person considered evil in your 🤬 's eyes? And on "judgment day", will your 🤬 burn in hell those who worship differently or don't worship anyone at all, even if they do good?

  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    VIBE wrote: »
    If 🤬 creates your destiny, isn't that the absence of free will?

    Why is it if something is "good" in someone's life, then that was "🤬 's will/plan/purpose/reason", over something "bad" not having anything to do with 🤬 ?

    It seems as if -

    doing good = no free will, because in that, it was always 🤬 's plan.

    doing bad = free will because the blame can't fall on 🤬 , 🤬 would never plan this for you, it's your choice.

    It's all nitpicking as to what, and how, everything fits.

    🤬 does not force you to do good or evil.

    Is someone being a non-Christian or non-religious person considered evil in your 🤬 's eyes? And on "judgment day", will your 🤬 burn in hell those who worship differently or don't worship anyone at all, even if they do good?

    Who will end up in the lake of fire no one really known for sure and going to heaven or hell has nothing really to do with being "GOOD" because jesus said no one is good except 🤬 . From my understanding GOING to heaven of hell all has to do with your relationship or non-relationship with jesus christ. Being non religious does not make you evil, doing evil makes you evil. 🤬 however knows a man's heart and he will judge from it.

    what do you mean by worship differently??? there is no one way to worship 🤬 . A christian can worship 🤬 as he sees fit i can't tell a baptist he has to worship the exact same way i do.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lake of fire? You believe in the actual place?
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VIBE wrote: »
    Lake of fire? You believe in the actual place?

    No i don't think there will be an actual lake of fire it's figurative language and by way hell itself will be thrown into a lake of fire.
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you pave a road and split it so it diverges into two different directions, you have chosen two paths for any traveler go down. The fact that they can chose between one or the other doesn't take away from the fact that they were given two predetermined choices in the first place.

    That's stupid. There are only two endings but many of different roads to get to it
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 On the shoulders of Giants and Elders in history UniverseMembers Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But my favorite story in the bible is when david this army with two other 🤬 . Wondering who will win in a fight David or Samson.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    All my life I've been hearing how we're living in the last days. That the lawd is coming back soon. That I need to get saved before it's too late and hell's size is expanding.

    For one, how unbelievably arrogant do you have to be make such a claim as if you have any proof? And how much longer until the end of days cause you people having been crying the proverbial wolf for a long 🤬 time.

    Well...you don't have to be arrogant at all to make claims on anything. You can actually be nice about it. It is only those who want to feel good about themselves and control a situation who make claims out of arrogance. It is those people who want you to choose 🤬 not because He is actually good for you...but because they want to feel like they got you.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    alissowack wrote: »
    All my life I've been hearing how we're living in the last days. That the lawd is coming back soon. That I need to get saved before it's too late and hell's size is expanding.

    For one, how unbelievably arrogant do you have to be make such a claim as if you have any proof? And how much longer until the end of days cause you people having been crying the proverbial wolf for a long 🤬 time.

    Well...you don't have to be arrogant at all to make claims on anything. You can actually be nice about it. It is only those who want to feel good about themselves and control a situation who make claims out of arrogance. It is those people who want you to choose 🤬 not because He is actually good for you...but because they want to feel like they got you.

    It's still arrogant to say repent to Jesus or otherwise you're gonna burn or suffer for all eternity because there's still no real evidence Jesus was even a savior to begin with. Jesus said the Old Testament rules will not be abolished until PROPHECY IS FULFILLED, and as we clearly know now, Jesus didn't fulfill the Old Testament prophecies for the most part. Most were never fulfilled, so I think the Christian claims of only Jesus being able to save are very arrogant.

    Matthew 5:17-18: "Think not that I came to abolish the law, or the prophets: I came not to abolish, but to fulfil. For verily I say to you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle in no wise shall pass away from the law, until all be fulfilled."
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    alissowack wrote: »
    All my life I've been hearing how we're living in the last days. That the lawd is coming back soon. That I need to get saved before it's too late and hell's size is expanding.

    For one, how unbelievably arrogant do you have to be make such a claim as if you have any proof? And how much longer until the end of days cause you people having been crying the proverbial wolf for a long 🤬 time.

    Well...you don't have to be arrogant at all to make claims on anything. You can actually be nice about it. It is only those who want to feel good about themselves and control a situation who make claims out of arrogance. It is those people who want you to choose 🤬 not because He is actually good for you...but because they want to feel like they got you.

    It's still arrogant to say repent to Jesus or otherwise you're gonna burn or suffer for all eternity because there's still no real evidence Jesus was even a savior to begin with. Jesus said the Old Testament rules will not be abolished until PROPHECY IS FULFILLED, and as we clearly know now, Jesus didn't fulfill the Old Testament prophecies for the most part. Most were never fulfilled, so I think the Christian claims of only Jesus being able to save are very arrogant.

    Matthew 5:17-18: "Think not that I came to abolish the law, or the prophets: I came not to abolish, but to fulfil. For verily I say to you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle in no wise shall pass away from the law, until all be fulfilled."

    You are just hard headed. People have explained that passage to you multiple times but ou just ignore it.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    zzombie wrote: »
    alissowack wrote: »
    All my life I've been hearing how we're living in the last days. That the lawd is coming back soon. That I need to get saved before it's too late and hell's size is expanding.

    For one, how unbelievably arrogant do you have to be make such a claim as if you have any proof? And how much longer until the end of days cause you people having been crying the proverbial wolf for a long 🤬 time.

    Well...you don't have to be arrogant at all to make claims on anything. You can actually be nice about it. It is only those who want to feel good about themselves and control a situation who make claims out of arrogance. It is those people who want you to choose 🤬 not because He is actually good for you...but because they want to feel like they got you.

    It's still arrogant to say repent to Jesus or otherwise you're gonna burn or suffer for all eternity because there's still no real evidence Jesus was even a savior to begin with. Jesus said the Old Testament rules will not be abolished until PROPHECY IS FULFILLED, and as we clearly know now, Jesus didn't fulfill the Old Testament prophecies for the most part. Most were never fulfilled, so I think the Christian claims of only Jesus being able to save are very arrogant.

    Matthew 5:17-18: "Think not that I came to abolish the law, or the prophets: I came not to abolish, but to fulfil. For verily I say to you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle in no wise shall pass away from the law, until all be fulfilled."

    You are just hard headed. People have explained that passage to you multiple times but ou just ignore it.


    “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)


    Jesus did not fulfill ALL of the prophecies, so therefore, the Old Testament laws in many cases should still apply to Bible fans. As your lord himself said, NOT ONE PART of the Law (Old Testament rules) shall pass away until ALL be fulfilled. Did Jesus fulfill ALL of the prophecies from the Torah??

    NO. I'm far from hard headed, I just know how to read.
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    alissowack wrote: »
    All my life I've been hearing how we're living in the last days. That the lawd is coming back soon. That I need to get saved before it's too late and hell's size is expanding.

    For one, how unbelievably arrogant do you have to be make such a claim as if you have any proof? And how much longer until the end of days cause you people having been crying the proverbial wolf for a long 🤬 time.

    Well...you don't have to be arrogant at all to make claims on anything. You can actually be nice about it. It is only those who want to feel good about themselves and control a situation who make claims out of arrogance. It is those people who want you to choose 🤬 not because He is actually good for you...but because they want to feel like they got you.

    It's still arrogant to say repent to Jesus or otherwise you're gonna burn or suffer for all eternity because there's still no real evidence Jesus was even a savior to begin with. Jesus said the Old Testament rules will not be abolished until PROPHECY IS FULFILLED, and as we clearly know now, Jesus didn't fulfill the Old Testament prophecies for the most part. Most were never fulfilled, so I think the Christian claims of only Jesus being able to save are very arrogant.

    Matthew 5:17-18: "Think not that I came to abolish the law, or the prophets: I came not to abolish, but to fulfil. For verily I say to you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle in no wise shall pass away from the law, until all be fulfilled."

    You are just hard headed. People have explained that passage to you multiple times but ou just ignore it.


    “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)


    Jesus did not fulfill ALL of the prophecies, so therefore, the Old Testament laws in many cases should still apply to Bible fans. As your lord himself said, NOT ONE PART of the Law (Old Testament rules) shall pass away until ALL be fulfilled. Did Jesus fulfill ALL of the prophecies from the Torah??

    NO. I'm far from hard headed, I just know how to read.

    Who is he talking to ??? Also you said he didn't fulfill all do you what that means from a Christian perspective??? Also I know I said previously that Christians are not Jews
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    Jesus himself abolished sacrifice
    And 🤬 himself did away with certain laws when he destroyed the nation of Israel.

    But people who hate 🤬 pick out what they want from the bible without first reading and understanding passages in context. So you'll pick out something from Luke or Matthew but you'll skip that part were Jesus is the lamb and ultimate sacrifice. Thus doing away with sacrifice laws for non jews.

    If you actually read Leviticus and Deuteronomy you'll learn why the Jews were given the law in the first place and you'll understand the ramifications of 🤬 later on causing the destruction of the nation of Israel And you'll see what that means for those laws.

    But you see people who hate 🤬 are not really concerned with knowing the reasoning behind the religion