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Has Kim Davis been discriminated against based on EEOC laws?

Arya Tsaddiq
Arya Tsaddiq ShalawamThe Daughter of BabylonMembers Posts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited September 2015 in The Social Lounge
This could spark a good conversation.

*Update: For those who dont know who Kim Davis is, she is the Kentucky clerk who was jailed for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses because she said it violated her religious beliefs.

Here is a link to a story about her.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/07/politics/kim-davis-same-sex-marriage-kentucky-governor/index.html

The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission enforces federal law that protects certain groups of people at the workplace. Kim Davis may or may not have a case, but it is a slippery slope because she doesn't want to perform duties that would go against her beliefs, but it would be considered discriminatory to not do.

Here are the laws against religious discrimination:
Religious Discrimination

Religious discrimination involves treating a person (an applicant or employee) unfavorably because of his or her religious beliefs. The law protects not only people who belong to traditional, organized religions, such as Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism, but also others who have sincerely held religious, ethical or moral beliefs.

Religious discrimination can also involve treating someone differently because that person is married to (or associated with) an individual of a particular religion or because of his or her connection with a religious organization or group.

Religious Discrimination & Work Situations

The law forbids discrimination when it comes to any aspect of employment, including hiring, firing, pay, job assignments, promotions, layoff, training, fringe benefits, and any other term or condition of employment.

Religious Discrimination & Harassment

It is illegal to harass a person because of his or her religion.

Harassment can include, for example, offensive remarks about a person's religious beliefs or practices. Although the law doesn't prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that aren't very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).

The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer.

Religious Discrimination and Segregation

Title VII also prohibits workplace or job segregation based on religion (including religious garb and grooming practices), such as assigning an employee to a non-customer contact position because of actual or feared customer preference.


Religious Discrimination & Reasonable Accommodation

The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business. This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.

Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices.

Religious Accommodation/Dress & Grooming Policies

Unless it would be an undue hardship on the employer's operation of its business, an employer must reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices. This applies not only to schedule changes or leave for religious observances, but also to such things as dress or grooming practices that an employee has for religious reasons. These might include, for example, wearing particular head coverings or other religious dress (such as a Jewish yarmulke or a Muslim headscarf), or wearing certain hairstyles or 🤬 hair (such as Rastafarian dreadlocks or Sikh uncut hair and beard). It also includes an employee's observance of a religious prohibition against wearing certain garments (such as pants or miniskirts).

When an employee or applicant needs a dress or grooming accommodation for religious reasons, he should notify the employer that he needs such an accommodation for religious reasons. If the employer reasonably needs more information, the employer and the employee should engage in an interactive process to discuss the request. If it would not pose an undue hardship, the employer must grant the accommodation.

Religious Discrimination & Reasonable Accommodation & Undue Hardship

An employer does not have to accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices if doing so would cause undue hardship to the employer. An accommodation may cause undue hardship if it is costly, compromises workplace safety, decreases workplace efficiency, infringes on the rights of other employees, or requires other employees to do more than their share of potentially hazardous or burdensome work.

Religious Discrimination And Employment Policies/Practices

An employee cannot be forced to participate (or not participate) in a religious activity as a condition of employment

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm

Could "reasonable accommodations" be made for Kim Davis, or does she not have a case?

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Comments

  • 7figz
    7figz Still don’t nothing move but the money Members Posts: 15,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Might want to add a little detail on who Kim Davis is. If it's that white 🤬 who didnt want to give the homos a marriage license then she should probably be fired but not put in jail.
  • Purr
    Purr Evil Chuck Season. Jumpman jumpman Jumpman dat girl up to something!!!Members Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whats the case?
  • Arya Tsaddiq
    Arya Tsaddiq Shalawam The Daughter of BabylonMembers Posts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    7figz wrote: »
    Might want to add a little detail on who Kim Davis is. If it's that white 🤬 who didnt want to give the homos a marriage license then she should probably be fired but not put in jail.
    Purr wrote: »
    Whats the case?

    I just updated the OP. There is story from CNN that gives background on the story.
  • skpjr78
    skpjr78 Members Posts: 7,311 ✭✭✭✭✭
    🤬 that 🤬 and 🤬 those homos. If that 🤬 don't want to follow the law she needs to find a new job. This is what happens when a sick twisted perverted society tries to force this unnatural 🤬 on the few sane people that are left. 🤬 em all. Kim Davis and this perverted society deserve each other.
  • Arya Tsaddiq
    Arya Tsaddiq Shalawam The Daughter of BabylonMembers Posts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so a 🤬 discriminating doesn't want to be discriminated against??

    iunno if she should be in jail..
    but she should definitely be out of a job..

    That's the issue.

    I mean they say she took an "oath" to uphold the law. And she was put on jail for not doing it. But if I'm not mistaken, isn't that oath taken with a hand on the bible? Lol. It makes no sense. I know laws can and do change, but it the environment was different when she started. Would she have taken the job if she was required to marry everyone back then?

    Could there be people who have no problem marrying same sex couples that could do he job? Is that a "unreasonable accommodation" to have an apathetic person staffed?

    If Kim Davis feels the environment is now forcing her to compromise her religious beliefs, why stay?

    There are a few people that study/studied law on this forum. Does she have a discrimination case?
  • Arya Tsaddiq
    Arya Tsaddiq Shalawam The Daughter of BabylonMembers Posts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quick question....


    What would have happened to me or any other servicemember here, if we wouldn't or didn't honor our oath?

    Oaths are in place for a reason.

    I'm not in the military so I dont know. But I assume jail time is involved lol.

    But does the military provide religious accommodations for service members?
  • deadeye
    deadeye Walmart Warrior Kat's buttMembers Posts: 22,884 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is what I don't understand......why is she even in jail?


    Do county clerks have some kind of special privilege or something?


    What if a bank teller said....for whatever reason.....that they didn't want to count money?


    A customer service rep in a call center saying they don't wanna be on the phone?


    A bartender saying they don't wanna serve drinks?


    Basically, any situation in which an employee says they don't wanna do their job.....but they still wanna get paid for it.


    Hard to understand how this became as big of an issue as it is.


    If you don't want to do your job, you either find another job or get fired.


    "Simple as 2+2" -Tasha's mom
  • CapitalB
    CapitalB all these dollars.. no sense. Members Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    deadeye wrote: »
    This is what I don't understand......why is she even in jail?


    Do county clerks have some kind of special privilege or something?


    What if a bank teller said....for whatever reason.....that they didn't want to count money?


    A customer service rep in a call center saying they don't wanna be on the phone?


    A bartender saying they don't wanna serve drinks?


    Basically, any situation in which an employee says they don't wanna do their job.....but they still wanna get paid for it.


    Hard to understand how this became as big of an issue as it is.


    If you don't want to do your job, you either find another job or get fired.


    "Simple as 2+2" -Tasha's mom

    i think its the "oath" thing..

    and if thats the case the 🤬 knew the risks..
    she saw the writing on the wall.. she knew the 🤬 were commin..

    she should've retired instead of obstructed.. she's not bigger then the system..
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Regulator
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  • obnoxiouslyfresh
    obnoxiouslyfresh Still Ginny From The Block Members Posts: 11,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why she aint find a damn church to work for? Churches aint hiring out here?
  • Arya Tsaddiq
    Arya Tsaddiq Shalawam The Daughter of BabylonMembers Posts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quick question....


    What would have happened to me or any other servicemember here, if we wouldn't or didn't honor our oath?

    Oaths are in place for a reason.

    I'm not in the military so I dont know. But I assume jail time is involved lol.

    But does the military provide religious accommodations for service members?

    Not when it comes to the oath or contract.

    I got you. So basically it falls back on "you know what you signed up for."
  • playmaker88
    playmaker88 Boy, I tell you that's vision Like Tony Romo when he hitting Witten Members Posts: 67,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
    🤬 that 🤬 shes on i think her third marriage.. she has diabetes... i mean look at her she probably does. they need to fine that 🤬 a years salary and fire her.

    I hope he gets run over a bus of 🤬 people dressed up as StarWars characters
  • StoneColdMikey
    StoneColdMikey mikeyismod CHITOWN THE BEST TOWNMembers, Moderators Posts: 33,543 Regulator
    🤬 that hateful 🤬
  • Purr
    Purr Evil Chuck Season. Jumpman jumpman Jumpman dat girl up to something!!!Members Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well an adulterous person who cast judgment on those who are in same sex relationships is pretty damn ass backwards.

    Shes like the ultimate thot tho.

    Anyways, on topic, she decided to work for the city. By federal law, one cannot discriminate against others, especially working for the government/city. That was stupid as 🤬 . Her loss. Oh well.
  • desertrain10
    desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    She's an elected official so she can't just quit or be fired in the traditional sense

    She doesn't want to resign obviously

    So Kentucky legislators need to step up but than again there's legal obstacles

    But yea she doesn't have a case

    She is a public official and made an oath to uphold the law

    Read she would be willing to issue out the licenses if her name would be removed from the document, but who is she for the state to making such accommodations???

    And if they were to accommodate her, than what's stopping the another clerk from asking for similar accommodations if they don't want to issue license out to an atheist or someone twice divorced
  • SneakDZA
    SneakDZA damn, am I a sinner? Members Posts: 11,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    deadeye wrote: »
    This is what I don't understand......why is she even in jail?


    Do county clerks have some kind of special privilege or something?


    What if a bank teller said....for whatever reason.....that they didn't want to count money?


    A customer service rep in a call center saying they don't wanna be on the phone?


    A bartender saying they don't wanna serve drinks?


    Basically, any situation in which an employee says they don't wanna do their job.....but they still wanna get paid for it.


    Hard to understand how this became as big of an issue as it is.


    If you don't want to do your job, you either find another job or get fired.


    "Simple as 2+2" -Tasha's mom

    Contempt of court. She violated a court order to stop using her office to obstruct people from legally getting married based on her personal religious beliefs.

    She's in jail because she chose to be there. If she wants to live under a theocracy she should move to Saudi Arabia.
  • Arya Tsaddiq
    Arya Tsaddiq Shalawam The Daughter of BabylonMembers Posts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    She's an elected official so she can't just quit or be fired in the traditional sense

    She doesn't want to resign obviously

    So Kentucky legislators need to step up but than again there's legal obstacles

    But yea she doesn't have a case

    She is a public official and made an oath to uphold the law

    Read she would be willing to issue out the licenses if her name would be removed from the document, but who is she for the state to making such accommodations???

    And if they were to accommodate her, than what's stopping the another clerk from asking for similar accommodations if they don't want to issue license out to an atheist or someone twice divorced

    Read this article and then decide if she does or does not have a case...
    When does your religion legally excuse you from doing part of your job?

    Can your religion legally excuse you from doing part of your job? This is one of the questions in the Kentucky County Clerk marriage certificate case. But it also arises in lots of other cases — for instance, the Muslim flight attendant who doesn’t want to serve alcohol and who filed a complaint on Tuesday with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission over the airline’s denial of an exemption.

    The question has also arisen before with regard to:
    1.Nurses who had religious objections to being involved in abortions (even just to washing instruments that would be used in abortions);
    2.Pacifist postal workers who had religious objections to processing draft registration forms;
    3.A Jehovah’s Witness employee who had religious objections to raising a flag, which was a task assigned to him;
    4.An IRS employee who had religious objections to working on tax exemption applications for organizations that promote “abortion, … homosexuality, worship of the devil, euthanasia, atheism, legalization of marijuana, immoral sexual experiments, sterilization or vasectomies, artificial contraception, and witchcraft”;
    5.a philosophically vegetarian bus driver who refused to hand out hamburger coupons as part of an agency’s promotion aimed at boosting ridership;
    6.and more.

    And of course it arises routinely when people are fine with their job tasks, but have a religious objection to doing them on particular days (e.g., Saturdays and Fridays after sundown).

    Under Title VII of the federal Civil Rights Act, both public and private employers have a duty to exempt religious employees from generally applicable work rules, so long as this won’t create an “undue hardship,” meaning more than a modest cost, on the employer. If the employees can be accommodated in a way that would let the job still get done without much burden on the employer, coworkers, and customers — for instance by switching the employee’s assignments with another employee or by otherwise slightly changing the job duties — then the employer must accommodate them. (The Muslim flight attendant I mentioned above, for instance, claims that she has always been able to work out arrangements under which the other flight attendant serves the alcohol instead of her.)

    Thus, for instance, in all the cases I mentioned in the numbered list above, the religious objectors got an accommodation, whether in court or as a result of the employer’s settling a lawsuit brought by the EEOC. Likewise, the EEOC is currently litigating a case in which it claims that a trucking company must accommodate a Muslim employee’s religious objections to transporting alcohol, and the court has indeed concluded that the employer had a duty to accommodate such objections. But if the accommodation would have been quite difficult or expensive (beyond the inevitable cost that always come when rearranging tasks), then the employer wouldn’t have had to provide it.

    Now I’m not saying this to praise the law, or to claim that it’s demanded by vital principles of religious principles. One can certainly argue against this approach, especially as applied to private employers, but also as applied to the government.

    Read the rest here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/09/04/when-does-your-religion-legally-excuse-you-from-doing-part-of-your-job/
  • desertrain10
    desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    She's an elected official so she can't just quit or be fired in the traditional sense

    She doesn't want to resign obviously

    So Kentucky legislators need to step up but than again there's legal obstacles

    But yea she doesn't have a case

    She is a public official and made an oath to uphold the law

    Read she would be willing to issue out the licenses if her name would be removed from the document, but who is she for the state to making such accommodations???

    And if they were to accommodate her, than what's stopping the another clerk from asking for similar accommodations if they don't want to issue license out to an atheist or someone twice divorced

    Read this article and then decide if she does or does not have a case...
    When does your religion legally excuse you from doing part of your job?

    Can your religion legally excuse you from doing part of your job? This is one of the questions in the Kentucky County Clerk marriage certificate case. But it also arises in lots of other cases — for instance, the Muslim flight attendant who doesn’t want to serve alcohol and who filed a complaint on Tuesday with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission over the airline’s denial of an exemption.

    The question has also arisen before with regard to:
    1.Nurses who had religious objections to being involved in abortions (even just to washing instruments that would be used in abortions);
    2.Pacifist postal workers who had religious objections to processing draft registration forms;
    3.A Jehovah’s Witness employee who had religious objections to raising a flag, which was a task assigned to him;
    4.An IRS employee who had religious objections to working on tax exemption applications for organizations that promote “abortion, … homosexuality, worship of the devil, euthanasia, atheism, legalization of marijuana, immoral sexual experiments, sterilization or vasectomies, artificial contraception, and witchcraft”;
    5.a philosophically vegetarian bus driver who refused to hand out hamburger coupons as part of an agency’s promotion aimed at boosting ridership;
    6.and more.

    And of course it arises routinely when people are fine with their job tasks, but have a religious objection to doing them on particular days (e.g., Saturdays and Fridays after sundown).

    Under Title VII of the federal Civil Rights Act, both public and private employers have a duty to exempt religious employees from generally applicable work rules, so long as this won’t create an “undue hardship,” meaning more than a modest cost, on the employer. If the employees can be accommodated in a way that would let the job still get done without much burden on the employer, coworkers, and customers — for instance by switching the employee’s assignments with another employee or by otherwise slightly changing the job duties — then the employer must accommodate them. (The Muslim flight attendant I mentioned above, for instance, claims that she has always been able to work out arrangements under which the other flight attendant serves the alcohol instead of her.)

    Thus, for instance, in all the cases I mentioned in the numbered list above, the religious objectors got an accommodation, whether in court or as a result of the employer’s settling a lawsuit brought by the EEOC. Likewise, the EEOC is currently litigating a case in which it claims that a trucking company must accommodate a Muslim employee’s religious objections to transporting alcohol, and the court has indeed concluded that the employer had a duty to accommodate such objections. But if the accommodation would have been quite difficult or expensive (beyond the inevitable cost that always come when rearranging tasks), then the employer wouldn’t have had to provide it.

    Now I’m not saying this to praise the law, or to claim that it’s demanded by vital principles of religious principles. One can certainly argue against this approach, especially as applied to private employers, but also as applied to the government.

    Read the rest here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/09/04/when-does-your-religion-legally-excuse-you-from-doing-part-of-your-job/

    She works for the government though

    To accommodate her is a form of discrimination against 🤬

    Its like marking their licenses with a scarlet letter

    They can't grant a government worker special priveldges at the expense of another because of their race, gender, sexual orientation or gender
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This woman is a trip.

    She wants to uphold traditional marriage due to her beliefs within her church and bible. Yet, she's been divorced 3x. She had twins out of wedlock, from her 3rd husband, and they were taken care of by her 2nd husband. Now, she's on her 4th marriage.

    Really? How the 🤬 are you gonna get on your holy pedestal and preach against same-sex marriage not being traditional.

    Then, feel discriminated against, attacked, due to your beliefs, when you're doing the same 🤬 to those you're denying marriage licenses?

    Someone needs to slap the 🤬 out of her.

    She's not being attack by a judge due to her religion, but due to her government job. She is in contempt of court. She is going against the law. If I'm not mistaken, Jesus said to honor the governments laws, regardless of how you feel.

    She needs to quit her job.
  • atribecalledgabi
    atribecalledgabi DragonstoneMembers, Moderators Posts: 14,063 Regulator
    edited September 2015
    VIBE wrote: »
    This woman is a trip.

    She wants to uphold traditional marriage due to her beliefs within her church and bible. Yet, she's been divorced 3x. She had twins out of wedlock, from her 3rd husband, and they were taken care of by her 2nd husband. Now, she's on her 4th marriage.

    Really? How the 🤬 are you gonna get on your holy pedestal and preach against same-sex marriage not being traditional.

    Then, feel discriminated against, attacked, due to your beliefs, when you're doing the same 🤬 to those you're denying marriage licenses?

    Someone needs to slap the 🤬 out of her.

    She's not being attack by a judge due to her religion, but due to her government job. She is in contempt of court. She is going against the law. If I'm not mistaken, Jesus said to honor the governments laws, regardless of how you feel.

    She needs to quit her job.

    But watch when they bring that up it's gonna be a slanderous attack against her.

    If a muslim decided not to serve her because she's christian imagine the news stories
  • CP203
    CP203 Members Posts: 10,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lol people need to understand if you work for the government you have no rights