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The Great Equalizer: Civil rights and the Second Amendment

janklow
janklow god's lonely man.Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
food for thought for the day:
In her harrowing 1892 treatise on the horrors of lynching in the post-bellum American South, the journalist, suffragist, and civil-rights champion Ida B. Wells established for her readers the value of bearing arms. “Of the many inhuman outrages of this present year,” Wells recorded, “the only case where the proposed lynching did not occur, was where the men armed themselves.” She went on to proffer some advice: “The only times an Afro-American who was assaulted got away has been when he had a gun and used it in self-defense. The lesson this teaches, and which every Afro-American should ponder well, is that a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give.”
...
and to be clear about the roots of much gun control...
So it would continue to be. Speaking in favor of the proposed Gun Control Act in 1968, the mayor of Chicago, Richard Daley, griped that Americans, “especially the non-white, are buying guns right and left.” “Someone,” Daley thought, “ought to do something,” lest the riots that had been sparked by the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. turn into a minor insurrection. That year, Congress obliged, passing a set of harsh restrictions on the importation of firearms and in effect outlawing the inexpensive foreign weaponry on which most inner-city blacks had come to rely. “It is difficult to escape the conclusion,” the historian Barry Bruce-Biggs has argued, “that the ‘Saturday night special’ is emphasized because it is cheap and is being sold to a particular class of people.” The left-wing writer Robert Sherrill put it even more bluntly in his classic anti-gun tome The Saturday Night Special (1973): “The Gun Control Act of 1968 was passed not to control guns but to control blacks.” In California a year earlier, legislators had been so vexed by the sight of armed Black Panthers protesting outside the statehouse that they passed legislation outlawing all open carrying of firearms — the first such ban in state history and, at the time, perhaps the strictest ordinance in the country. Governor Ronald Reagan happily signed the bill.
non-violence != no self-defense...
The distinction between insurrection and self-defense was one that Martin Luther King Jr. himself insisted be observed. While “violence as a tool of advancement, organized as in warfare, deliberately and consciously,” was likely to invite “incalculable perils,” King held, “violence exercised merely in self-defense, all societies, from the most primitive to the most cultured and civilized, accept as moral and legal.” Or, as the Mississippi farmer and civil-rights activist Hartman Turnbow put it with more élan, by opening fire on 🤬 members who were attacking his home, “I wasn’t being non-nonviolent, I was just protectin’ my family.” Both men were tapping into a long and proud instinct within what Johnson refers to as “the black tradition of arms.” Asked in 1850 what advice he would give to escaped blacks who feared the slave-catcher’s embrace, Frederick Douglass responded: “a good revolver, a steady hand, and a determination to shoot down any man attempting to kidnap” them.
...Cobb should know. He was there. “I worked in the South,” he recalled during his interview with NPR. “I lived with families in the South. There was never a family I stayed with that didn’t have a gun. I know, from personal experience and the experiences of others, that guns kept people alive.” Martin Luther King’s home, Cobb recollected, was an “arsenal” — not an uncommon thing for blacks who felt that their lives were in danger. Fannie Lou Hamer, the driving force behind the Mississippi Freedom Summer and a remarkable orator in her own right, always “kept weapons nearby in case she needed them.” She once wrote to a friend that “the first 🤬 even looks like he wants to throw some dynamite on my porch won’t write his mama again.” Another woman, Cynthia Washington, responded to the murder of a fellow activist by keeping a handgun in her purse at all times. It would, Washington said, be an “unforgivable sin to willingly let someone 🤬 my mother’s only child without a fight.” Annie Colton Reeves of Mississippi, Johnson records, was told by her father that “it’s better to have ammunition than food,” and she took him seriously: She owned two rifles, two handguns, and a shotgun, and proved more than happy to use them. “Women like Annie Colton and Fannie Lou Hamer offered no high theories about armed self-defense versus political violence,” Johnson contends. They just wished to survive.

Comments

  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "But-but-but I don't like guns, there big and scary and offend my delicate senses."

    t. Liberal leftiest
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 On the shoulders of Giants and Elders in history UniverseMembers Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    "But-but-but I don't like guns, there big and scary and offend my delicate senses."

    t. Liberal leftiest

    I'm getting a shot gun, next week. Home protection.
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2016
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    "But-but-but I don't like guns, there big and scary and offend my delicate senses."

    t. Liberal leftiest

    I'm getting a shot gun, next week. Home protection.



    I personally don't like shotguns so I'm biased but assuming your in a situation where you have to defend your home with your glock it would be easier to store load and allow continuous fire. Yes you'll have more firepower but your only going up against a human not a wild charging animal feel me. That's just my opinion.

    ^^^^A post of mine from the firearm thread page 11. Check it out real quick whole page has useful information concerning home defense.

  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    I'm getting a shot gun, next week. Home protection.
    not to be completely redundant with the other thread out there, but get whatever you're most comfortable with*. if that's a shotgun? cool.

    *assuming your state has no legislation in effect that limits/removes options
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting, who would have known REAGAN out of all people signed an anti-gun bill. I'm still stunned reading that.
  • losttribeofshabazz
    losttribeofshabazz Members Posts: 1
    This is interesting, Their republican savior Reagan huh. Anywhos check out "The American Nightmare" View and Subscribe
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 On the shoulders of Giants and Elders in history UniverseMembers Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    I'm getting a shot gun, next week. Home protection.
    not to be completely redundant with the other thread out there, but get whatever you're most comfortable with*. if that's a shotgun? cool.

    *assuming your state has no legislation in effect that limits/removes options

    I'm from an open carry state Ohio
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 On the shoulders of Giants and Elders in history UniverseMembers Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    "But-but-but I don't like guns, there big and scary and offend my delicate senses."

    t. Liberal leftiest

    I'm getting a shot gun, next week. Home protection.



    I personally don't like shotguns so I'm biased but assuming your in a situation where you have to defend your home with your glock it would be easier to store load and allow continuous fire. Yes you'll have more firepower but your only going up against a human not a wild charging animal feel me. That's just my opinion.

    ^^^^A post of mine from the firearm thread page 11. Check it out real quick whole page has useful information concerning home defense.

    I'll get both.
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Interesting, who would have known REAGAN out of all people signed an anti-gun bill. I'm still stunned reading that.
    let me say unironically that the only president in my lifetime who DIDN'T 🤬 with my gun rights was Bush II.

  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    I'm from an open carry state Ohio
    oh, i was thinking more about states like mine that now require a license to purchase handguns. some people go shotgun/rifle because of that.

  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 On the shoulders of Giants and Elders in history UniverseMembers Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    I'm from an open carry state Ohio
    oh, i was thinking more about states like mine that now require a license to purchase handguns. some people go shotgun/rifle because of that.

    We don't even have to register.
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Pulchritudo in Conspectu Regis The EmpreyanMembers Posts: 6,355 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    Gun Control Is "Racist"?
    The NRA would know


    https://newrepublic.com/article/112322/gun-control-racism-and-nra-history

    BY ADAM WINKLER

    February 4, 2013

    National Rifle Association President David Keene stirred controversy Saturday by insisting that gun control's origins were racist. "You know, when you go back in history," Keene told the Daily Caller, "the initial wave of [gun laws] was instituted after the Civil War to deny blacks the ability to defend themselves." Keene's history is off by at least century—gun control existed in the American colonies and in the founding era—but nonetheless Keene points to an ugly truth about American history: Gun control has historically been used for racist purposes.

    And the NRA's president should know: His organization was intimately involved in this history, promoting gun control laws that were tainted with racism.

    Gun control, like many other areas of law in American history, has been shaped by prejudice. In the colonies before the Revolution and in the states right after, racially discriminatory gun laws were commonplace. Fearing revolts, lawmakers enacted statutes barring slaves from possessing firearms or other weapons. That ban was often applied equally to free blacks, who otherwise enjoyed most rights, lest they join in an uprising against the slave system. Where blacks were allowed to possess arms, as in Virginia in the early 1800s, they first had to obtain permission from local officials.

    As Keene notes, after the Civil War there was a rash of gun control laws aimed at disarming blacks. Southern blacks who had long been denied access to firearms were finally able to obtain them during the Civil War. Some served in colored units of the Union Army, which allowed soldiers regardless of skin color to take their guns home with them as partial payment of back-due wages. Other blacks purchased guns in the marketplace, which was flooded with the hundreds of thousands of guns produced for the war. Many predicted, accurately, that they might need those weapons to defend themselves against racist whites unhappy with the Confederacy's defeat.

    Within months of the surrender at Appomattox, recalcitrant white racists committed to the reestablishment of white supremacy determined to take those guns away from blacks. States in the South passed the Black Codes, which barred the freedmen from possessing guns. Racists quickly learned, however, why gun control is not always as effective as planned: You can draw up any law you like, but people don't necessarily comply. To enforce these laws, racists began to form posses that would go out at night in large groups, generally wearing disguises, and terrorize black homes, seizing every gun they could find. These groups took different names depending on locale: the Black Cavalry in Alabama, the Knights of the White Camellia in Louisiana, the Knights of the Rising Sun in Texas. In time, they all came to be known by the moniker of one such posse begun in Pulaski, Tennessee after the war: the Ku Klux 🤬 .

    Like the KKK, the NRA was also formed right after the Civil War. The organization's first major involvement with promoting gun laws tainted by prejudice was in the 1920s and 30s. In response to urban gun violence often associated with immigrants, especially those from Italy, the NRA's president, Karl Frederick, helped draft model legislation to restrict concealed carry of firearms in public. States, Frederick's model law recommended, should only allow concealed carry by people with a license, and those licenses should be restricted to "suitable" people with "proper reason for carrying" a gun in public. Thanks to the NRA's endorsement, these laws were adopted in the majority of states.

    Determining who was "suitable" under these licensing schemes was left to the discretion of local law enforcement. Predictably, racial minorities and disfavored immigrants were usually deemed unsuitable, no matter how serious a threat they faced. In 1956, after his house was firebombed, Martin Luther King Jr. was turned down when he applied for a permit to carry a concealed firearm in Montgomery, Alabama.

    The 1960s saw another wave of gun control laws that were, at least in part, motivated by race. After Malcolm X promised to fight for civil rights "by any means necessary" while posing for Ebony magazine with an M1 Carbine rifle in his hand and the Black Panthers took to streets of Oakland with loaded guns, conservatives like Ronald Reagan, then governor of California, began promoting gun control. Black radicals with guns, coupled with the devastating race riots that wiped out whole neighborhoods in Newark and Detroit in 1967, helped persuade Congress to pass the Gun Control Act of 1968. That law barred felons from purchasing firearms, expanded the licensing of gun dealers, and barred imports of "Saturday Night Specials"—cheap, often poorly made guns that were frequently used for crime by urban youth. As one gun control supporter at the time frankly admitted, a close look at that law revealed that it wasn't really about controlling guns; it was about controlling blacks. And the NRA, in its signature publication, American Rifleman, took credit for the law and extolled its virtues.

    Of course, not every gun law in American history was motivated by racism. In fact, some of our earliest gun laws had nothing to do with prejudice. After 1820, for instance, a wave of laws swept through the South and Midwest barring people from carrying concealed weapons. These laws weren't racist in origin; blacks in many of these states were already prohibited from even owning a gun. The target of concealed carry laws was white people, namely violence-prone men who were a bit too eager to defend their honor by whipping out their guns. These laws, which might be thought of as the first modern gun control laws, had their origin in reducing criminal violence among whites.

    Moreover, Keene's claim that gun control has racist roots is not made to correct the historical record. He uses that history to raise doubts about President Obama's proposals for background checks and restrictions on high-capacity magazines and assault weapons. Of course, there is no evidence any of these laws are motivated by even the hint of racism. To suggest that we shouldn't adopt any gun regulations today because our ancestors had racist gun laws is, to be generous, far-fetched. Property law was once profoundly racist, allowing racially restrictive covenants; voting law was once profoundly racist, allowing literacy tests; marriage law was once profoundly racist, allowing no interracial marriage. Does that mean we should never have laws regulating property, voting, or marriage?

    In these other areas of law, such a claim would be patently absurd. Yet in the minds of today's NRA leaders, that's what passes for logic.

    Adam Winkler is a professor at UCLA School of Law and the author of Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America.
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Like the KKK, the NRA was also formed right after the Civil War.
    oh here we go with this 🤬 . wait, why doesn't Winkler tell us where the NRA was formed?
    States, Frederick's model law recommended, should only allow concealed carry by people with a license, and those licenses should be restricted to "suitable" people with "proper reason for carrying" a gun in public. Thanks to the NRA's endorsement, these laws were adopted in the majority of states.
    so Winkler notes Frederick's model was racist/wrong (and i agree) and yet doesn't seem to note that ""suitable" people with "proper reason for carrying" a gun in public" is still the law in a lot of places, with people like Winkler actively supporting it. so... he's calling the law racist while supporting that kind of law in 2016?

    also worth noting: NRA being on the wrong side of something in the past means changing their opinion in the current day is wrong? what kind of logic is this?
    The 1960s saw another wave of gun control laws that were, at least in part, motivated by race. After Malcolm X promised to fight for civil rights "by any means necessary" while posing for Ebony magazine with an M1 Carbine rifle in his hand and the Black Panthers took to streets of Oakland with loaded guns, conservatives like Ronald Reagan, then governor of California, began promoting gun control. Black radicals with guns, coupled with the devastating race riots that wiped out whole neighborhoods in Newark and Detroit in 1967, helped persuade Congress to pass the Gun Control Act of 1968. That law barred felons from purchasing firearms, expanded the licensing of gun dealers, and barred imports of "Saturday Night Specials"—cheap, often poorly made guns that were frequently used for crime by urban youth. As one gun control supporter at the time frankly admitted, a close look at that law revealed that it wasn't really about controlling guns; it was about controlling blacks. And the NRA, in its signature publication, American Rifleman, took credit for the law and extolled its virtues.
    again, the point is that gun control activists in 2016 support these kinds of laws (ask me if my state has a "Saturday Night Special" law).
    Of course, not every gun law in American history was motivated by racism. In fact, some of our earliest gun laws had nothing to do with prejudice. After 1820, for instance, a wave of laws swept through the South and Midwest barring people from carrying concealed weapons. These laws weren't racist in origin; blacks in many of these states were already prohibited from even owning a gun.
    wait: Winkler says "some of our earlier gun laws had nothing to do with prejudice" and then mentions a law that he himself says is PREDATED by a blanket ban on blacks owning firearms?
    To suggest that we shouldn't adopt any gun regulations today because our ancestors had racist gun laws is, to be generous, far-fetched.
    pointing out again that Winkler is saying a position on gun regulations today is wrong because of an earlier position on gun regulations was racist.
  • janklow
    janklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    edited June 2016
    today's thought:
    "I'm alive today because of the Second Amendment and the natural right to keep and bear arms." So declared John R. Salter Jr., the civil rights leader who helped organize the legendary non-violent sit-ins against segregated lunch counters in Jackson, Mississippi, in the 1960s. As Salter recalled it, he always "traveled armed" while doing civil rights work in the Jim Crow South. "Like a martyred friend of mine, NAACP staffer Medgar W. Evers, I, too, was on many 🤬 death lists and I, too, traveled armed: a .38 special Smith and Wesson revolver and a 44/40 Winchester carbine," Salter wrote. "The knowledge that I had these weapons and was willing to use them kept enemies at bay."

    Salter was not unique among civil rights activists in this regard. Anti-slavery leader Frederick Douglass called a "good revolver" the "true remedy for the Fugitive Slave Bill." Civil rights icon Fannie Lou Hamer said, "I keep a shotgun in every corner of my bedroom." Rosa Parks once described her dinner table "covered with guns" while civil rights activists met for a strategy session in her home. Martin Luther King Jr. carried guns for self-protection, applied for a conceal-carry permit (denied by racist white authorities), and once declared, "the principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi."

    In the wake of this weekend's horrific terrorist attack in Orlando, Florida, gun control advocates are pushing for greater restrictions on gun rights and for greater limits on the scope of the Second Amendment. Their arguments necessarily focus on the evil deeds done with the help of guns. But as the statements quoted above plainly demonstrate, guns have also played a profoundly noble and beneficial role in American society. As we debate the costs of the Second Amendment in the coming days, let's not forget to tally the benefits.
    .38 S&W and Winchester .44-40 reminds me of my grandfather, actually
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    janklow wrote: »
    today's thought:
    "I'm alive today because of the Second Amendment and the natural right to keep and bear arms." So declared John R. Salter Jr., the civil rights leader who helped organize the legendary non-violent sit-ins against segregated lunch counters in Jackson, Mississippi, in the 1960s. As Salter recalled it, he always "traveled armed" while doing civil rights work in the Jim Crow South. "Like a martyred friend of mine, NAACP staffer Medgar W. Evers, I, too, was on many 🤬 death lists and I, too, traveled armed: a .38 special Smith and Wesson revolver and a 44/40 Winchester carbine," Salter wrote. "The knowledge that I had these weapons and was willing to use them kept enemies at bay."

    Salter was not unique among civil rights activists in this regard. Anti-slavery leader Frederick Douglass called a "good revolver" the "true remedy for the Fugitive Slave Bill." Civil rights icon Fannie Lou Hamer said, "I keep a shotgun in every corner of my bedroom." Rosa Parks once described her dinner table "covered with guns" while civil rights activists met for a strategy session in her home. Martin Luther King Jr. carried guns for self-protection, applied for a conceal-carry permit (denied by racist white authorities), and once declared, "the principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi."

    In the wake of this weekend's horrific terrorist attack in Orlando, Florida, gun control advocates are pushing for greater restrictions on gun rights and for greater limits on the scope of the Second Amendment. Their arguments necessarily focus on the evil deeds done with the help of guns. But as the statements quoted above plainly demonstrate, guns have also played a profoundly noble and beneficial role in American society. As we debate the costs of the Second Amendment in the coming days, let's not forget to tally the benefits.
    .38 S&W and Winchester .44-40 reminds me of my grandfather, actually

    Nice quotes. Guns are very important for freedom and checking all threats, from wildlife, criminals to a possible future tyrannical government. Banning assault weapons didn't lower crime in the 90s, and it wouldn't solve the problem of terrorism either.
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