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🤬 + Man = Jesus

VIBE
VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 2010 in R & R (Religion and Race)
🤬 became flesh, which was Jesus. Was 🤬 a fetus? A baby? A toddler? A child? If so, why are there stories of Jesus as a child being so "bad" and "rotten" ??

Also, why would 🤬 send himself as his own son to die (sacrifice himself) for mankind? Not the sin part, but as 🤬 . Why not seriously send your own son, no 🤬 involved. How does that even work? When Jesus spoke to his disciples and said "I am not good, no one is good but the Father" what the hell is he saying? Why is 🤬 denying he is good but saying he is good. Or how does Jesus (who's 🤬 ) ask 🤬 why he has forsook him (Jesus). 🤬 forsook himself?

I don't think I ever FULLY grasped the concept of Jesus is 🤬 . In what way was Jesus 🤬 ?
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Comments

  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited October 2010
    Apparently Jesus was not 🤬 .

    Someone will come in and explain it better being I always thought he was so never really looked up elsewhere on it, but from what I have read on here in my short time I guess he was never meant to be 🤬 . I'll try to answer a few though.

    Perhaps him saying he was not Good only the Father was is because 🤬 is supposedly all good and no evil, where as Jesus was part man and therefore had evil in him, considering all people are automatically born sinners.
    Jesus was not 🤬 , There was only 🤬 , and the holy spirit. Once Jesus died for our sins only to allow our future to be born sinners anyway, he then became part of the holy trinity.
    And I guess people considered Jesus 🤬 because he died for them and did magic tricks along the way, he is what David Blaine and Chris Angel would be if they gave there life for someone.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited October 2010
    Jesus = 🤬 sent a part of himself, to Earth, in the form of a Human Being;

    to die on the cross, for our sins, so we can accept him as the only way the only truth the only light, to get to 🤬 in Heaven.

    So a 🤬 bleeds, gets thirsty, sleeps, gets angry, etc...?
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    Apparently Jesus was not 🤬 .

    Someone will come in and explain it better being I always thought he was so never really looked up elsewhere on it, but from what I have read on here in my short time I guess he was never meant to be 🤬 . I'll try to answer a few though.

    Perhaps him saying he was not Good only the Father was is because 🤬 is supposedly all good and no evil, where as Jesus was part man and therefore had evil in him, considering all people are automatically born sinners.
    Jesus was not 🤬 , There was only 🤬 , and the holy spirit. Once Jesus died for our sins only to allow our future to be born sinners anyway, he then became part of the holy trinity.
    And I guess people considered Jesus 🤬 because he died for them and did magic tricks along the way, he is what David Blaine and Chris Angel would be if they gave there life for someone.

    I've yet to meet a believer, Christian or Calvinist, that doesn't believe Jesus is 🤬 . They ALL believe Jesus was/is 🤬 . They don't believe Jesus was ever born a sinner, he was never had a sinful nature or anything. Bible even says Jesus didn't know sin or something of that nature.

    So they're putting the only man to ever be BORN without sin as JESUS. 🤬 has no sin as well. Only knows OF sin through mankind. So Jesus is 🤬 and they use that as ONE of their arguments. They'll even say he was man but 🤬 , well, it's complicated but you just have to believe!!

    To believe you can't have a blind belief, that's ridiculous and that's believing in something you have no real knowledge about. You MUST, no matter what it is, UNDERSTAND something before you believe. Do you just blindly sign papers? Or do you read it, to understand it and then sign? Same 🤬 . Anyway, that's for those who will say "just believe VIBE!"

    There has to be some explanation as to HOW Jesus is 🤬 . Not WHY he is, I know why he supposedly is.
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Prude FieldsMembers Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    C.S. Lexis understood it as man begets man, but only makes statues. 🤬 begets Christ but only makes men, and the 'three being one' he understood as just as a cube is six squares but remains one cube. :unno
  • Skeratch
    Skeratch Members Posts: 1,395 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    Jesus = 🤬 sent a part of himself to Earth

    So 🤬 is divisible?
  • Skeratch
    Skeratch Members Posts: 1,395 ✭✭
    edited October 2010

    Indubitably!

    lol
    holy trinity = 🤬 the Father, 🤬 the Son, and 🤬 the Holy Spirit

    But according to Christian doctrine, 🤬 is one and the three persons of the trinity are all eternal, are of one substance, and are equally 🤬 .
  • Skeratch
    Skeratch Members Posts: 1,395 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    No word trickery, allowed.

    You only repeated what I said, in your own words.

    The indivisibility of the Trinity was something established pretty early in Christianity.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    🤬 became flesh, which was Jesus. Was 🤬 a fetus? A baby? A toddler? A child? If so, why are there stories of Jesus as a child being so "bad" and "rotten" ??

    Also, why would 🤬 send himself as his own son to die (sacrifice himself) for mankind? Not the sin part, but as 🤬 . Why not seriously send your own son, no 🤬 involved. How does that even work? When Jesus spoke to his disciples and said "I am not good, no one is good but the Father" what the hell is he saying? Why is 🤬 denying he is good but saying he is good. Or how does Jesus (who's 🤬 ) ask 🤬 why he has forsook him (Jesus). 🤬 forsook himself?

    I don't think I ever FULLY grasped the concept of Jesus is 🤬 . In what way was Jesus 🤬 ?

    I don't want to downplay such questions or even suggest that there is an answer to grasp, but does it ultimately matter how Jesus is 🤬 if 🤬 exists? Does 🤬 have to surrender Himself to every critique man has because man is not satisfied with the supposed authority He has over the world? It is the belief that Jesus is 🤬 and there have been clever ways of explaining it, but if there is no reason to think that our lives are dependent on this belief, then it is useless; a lost cause.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    alissowack wrote: »
    I don't want to downplay such questions or even suggest that there is an answer to grasp, but does it ultimately matter how Jesus is 🤬 if 🤬 exists?

    Well yes it does matter. You do not accept many things in life unless you understand them. It's just the way life goes, you must understand it before you go ahead and toss up some stupid blind belief. Blind belief would seriously = stupidity.

    Does 🤬 have to surrender Himself to every critique man has because man is not satisfied with the supposed authority He has over the world?

    Well, sure he does. He doesn't HAVE to but being that he created us with emotions, thoughts, FREE WILL, then why even be shocked or fear these types of things? That's the #1 thing with Christians or believers in general THEY FEAR for no reason. They are scared to THINK of these things let alone question them out loud. Don't be, stand up and understand your belief. Nothing wrong with that. 🤬 created us like this right? Take it up with 🤬 , not man.
    It is the belief that Jesus is 🤬 and there have been clever ways of explaining it, but if there is no reason to think that our lives are dependent on this belief, then it is useless; a lost cause.

    I don't believe so. If Jesus isn't 🤬 , how does that take anything away? We can still be "saved" right? SURE! Were animals 🤬 when they were sacrificed? No they weren't but they were accepted as being good correct? So why does Jesus have to be 🤬 in order to be saved, forgiven etc? Jesus could easily be a normal human as 🤬 's son, no 🤬 in Jesus and still be our "savior".

    This thread isn't made to bash or make fun of or mock etc. I'm not that type of poster, I'm asking a serious question.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    Well yes it does matter. You do not accept many things in life unless you understand them. It's just the way life goes, you must understand it before you go ahead and toss up some stupid blind belief. Blind belief would seriously = stupidity.




    Well, sure he does. He doesn't HAVE to but being that he created us with emotions, thoughts, FREE WILL, then why even be shocked or fear these types of things? That's the #1 thing with Christians or believers in general THEY FEAR for no reason. They are scared to THINK of these things let alone question them out loud. Don't be, stand up and understand your belief. Nothing wrong with that. 🤬 created us like this right? Take it up with 🤬 , not man.



    I don't believe so. If Jesus isn't 🤬 , how does that take anything away? We can still be "saved" right? SURE! Were animals 🤬 when they were sacrificed? No they weren't but they were accepted as being good correct? So why does Jesus have to be 🤬 in order to be saved, forgiven etc? Jesus could easily be a normal human as 🤬 's son, no 🤬 in Jesus and still be our "savior".

    This thread isn't made to bash or make fun of or mock etc. I'm not that type of poster, I'm asking a serious question.

    It's true that you have to understand in order to be able to move forward but everything is not like that. Sometimes it's a matter of trust. Some people have no problem accepting what someone says or does because they have earned their trust. And depending on the circumstances, the listener can act blindly and be safe. The question may be whether people "understand" 🤬 or "trust" 🤬 .

    Again, 🤬 doesn't have to explain every little action with us. He want us to trust Him in all that He does. We might get upset, feel betrayed, feel abused but if you trust that He knows what's best, then you will surrender yourself even in trying times.

    Believing that Jesus is 🤬 is an important aspect of Christianity because it is the belief that man alone can't save themselves. It is the belief that Jesus is 🤬 's intervention for what man can't do; Jesus had to be both 🤬 and Man for salvation to work. How this takes place is beyond human understanding. But I don't believe the issue is about understanding...it's about trusting it; staking your life on it in more than just this lifetime.
  • universaltruth
    universaltruth Members Posts: 193
    edited October 2010
    alissowack wrote: »
    But I don't believe the issue is about understanding...it's about trusting it; staking your life on it in more than just this lifetime.

    Why would you trust something that not only is not provable, but also seemingly contradicted by the Bible itself?
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    Why would you trust something that not only is not provable, but also seemingly contradicted by the Bible itself?

    I could be wrong, but usually if something is contradictory, it is based on something that was understood to be something and then found out to be wrong. Being wrong is one thing. Being betrayed is another.
  • GSonII
    GSonII Members Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    same thing I say, to atheist.

    So why is your name its over 2012?
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    But what is trust? How can we trust? We see that every where trust is very hard to even give.

    Even to a bible right now. History has it's records of the bible being played with. Things taken out and put in, who's to say a man didn't just ADD to the bible? No one can say NO THATS NOT POSSIBLE! Too many say 🤬 says you can't do that, they take that to mean 🤬 prevents that or something. No, in my mind it doesn't. Anything can be twisted in scripture and sound good, because as long as the person doing it is staying on topic, they're good to go.

    If you're driving and a hitch hiker has his thumb out, are you stopping? 99% of the time, no you aren't, why? TRUST. You have NO idea what could happen. This person could tell you he's a good guy, but you don't know that. So you're going to put in now blind trust? You also can't have blind trust. How do you know this bible is the right one? Each one says they're right for all these reasons A-Z. Many religions, many bibles, many faiths, many 🤬 's, many Son's, many stories. But the one you believe is correct? Of course it is, it's the one you're believe so it has to be. Just like your car is the best, or your whatever is the best. It's something you stand by because it's yours.

    Understanding can lead to trust. You can't just make up and say okay I trust you. I mean that's not having a clue as to what's going to happen. What's real, what's not etc.
  • toktaylor
    toktaylor Members Posts: 612 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    Jesus is the son of 🤬 ...plain and simple. He was conceived without sexual intercourse (artificial insemination). That fact made him more closer to 🤬 than any other man and aided in his ability to perform miracle and great deeds. However, he tried to teach us that all of us have the spark of 🤬 inside. If we strengthen our spirituallity and display great love for each other we are well on our way to being perfected. It is the opposing and negative force (SATAN) that twist and confuse the guidance of the Bible so as to make us blind to the the truth.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    So anyone who hasn't had sexual intercourse and had an 'artificial insemination' and births that child, that child could be 🤬 ?
  • toktaylor
    toktaylor Members Posts: 612 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    So anyone who hasn't had sexual intercourse and had an 'artificial insemination' and births that child, that child could be 🤬 ?

    No...the donor is what is important, the donor (whether by sperms, other fluid or other means) came from 🤬 .
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    🤬 has sperm? (or any other fluids)
  • toktaylor
    toktaylor Members Posts: 612 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    🤬 has sperm? (or any other fluids)

    the birth of Jesus was recorded as a physical act. If 🤬 is to interact with a physical being to produce a normal pregancy then this act would have to obey the laws of nature. I am sure the bible did not imply that the birth of jesus was done Instanteonously or the wave of a magic wand and 'Presto'! jesus was here. therfore it is not farfetched to believe that even though there was no intercourse involved, her egg would have to be fertilised by some other means. i.e. artificial insemination, electrical stimulation or some technological way we are yet to discover.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    As far as I am concerned, as I was told in churches and what not, 🤬 did "magically" impregnate Mary.

    🤬 was upset with his angels for having sexual contact with earth women, therefore there was giants. 🤬 destroyed them in the flood as well. Being that angels + human = giants, wouldn't 🤬 + human = something more bigger? Who knows. I don't remember reading that 🤬 had sexual intercourse with Mary, which would totally go against 🤬 anyways.
  • toktaylor
    toktaylor Members Posts: 612 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    As far as I am concerned, as I was told in churches and what not, 🤬 did "magically" impregnate Mary.

    🤬 was upset with his angels for having sexual contact with earth women, therefore there was giants. 🤬 destroyed them in the flood as well. Being that angels + human = giants, wouldn't 🤬 + human = something more bigger? Who knows. I don't remember reading that 🤬 had sexual intercourse with Mary, which would totally go against 🤬 anyways.

    you have to view it in context of the time..it would seem magical to people living in that era, and i stated that there was no intercourse, however i am sure she took nine months to deliver and she did give birth through labour, Jesus did not magically appear big, he had a normal childhood in terms of aging until adulthood. Therefore if all this follow the laws of natural human development, it stands to reason that his conception has some logical explanation as well. His birth was special no doubt about it but i am just saying that Jesus is a separate entity from 🤬 .
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    But what is trust? How can we trust? We see that every where trust is very hard to even give.

    Even to a bible right now. History has it's records of the bible being played with. Things taken out and put in, who's to say a man didn't just ADD to the bible? No one can say NO THATS NOT POSSIBLE! Too many say 🤬 says you can't do that, they take that to mean 🤬 prevents that or something. No, in my mind it doesn't. Anything can be twisted in scripture and sound good, because as long as the person doing it is staying on topic, they're good to go.

    If you're driving and a hitch hiker has his thumb out, are you stopping? 99% of the time, no you aren't, why? TRUST. You have NO idea what could happen. This person could tell you he's a good guy, but you don't know that. So you're going to put in now blind trust? You also can't have blind trust. How do you know this bible is the right one? Each one says they're right for all these reasons A-Z. Many religions, many bibles, many faiths, many 🤬 's, many Son's, many stories. But the one you believe is correct? Of course it is, it's the one you're believe so it has to be. Just like your car is the best, or your whatever is the best. It's something you stand by because it's yours.

    Understanding can lead to trust. You can't just make up and say okay I trust you. I mean that's not having a clue as to what's going to happen. What's real, what's not etc.

    For someone to have to explain trust says a lot about the state of our trustworthiness. I'm not suggesting that trust is easy, but it is necessary. We can talk about what has been added or subtracted from the Bible, but it doesn't get down to the issue that matters the most...do you trust the people that are making these changes? Chances are you don't and it may be because they've done something to betray your trust. They may have done something to question their integrity which may make you question what they believe. Now you don't have to trust me but if there is any truth to what I am saying about 🤬 , then regardless of my good or bad motives for telling you, it come down to whether you trust 🤬 .
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    Young-Ice wrote: »
    The way i see it, man has every right. we are all his children right? Imagine you were born not to parents, but to a book that told u what to do (and not even very clearly at that.) And instead of being shown what to do, and told what to do, and how to act and behave in this world, you had to read that 🤬 book and figure out how to parent yourself. and then, there were people who, for a fee, would read that book for you claiming it's better for your development.

    thats how 🤬 is. A parent that ain't there. The bible is full of stories where he interacted with people, yet there is no longer interaction. wonder why...

    And should I trust that you are right in this assumption...that the Bible is just a book full of do's and don't's? Maybe so in the megachurches of today...or for that matter any church that adopts this. But we are missing the mark to think that. Even if we don't endorse the idea of 🤬 , there is enough in life to say that the do's and don't's don't always play out the way we want it to. Not everyone who does good is rewarded with good. Not everyone who does bad is rewarded with bad. Morality doesn't work all the time.
  • Israelites
    Israelites Members Posts: 280
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    🤬 became flesh, which was Jesus. Was 🤬 a fetus? A baby? A toddler? A child? If so, why are there stories of Jesus as a child being so "bad" and "rotten" ??

    Also, why would 🤬 send himself as his own son to die (sacrifice himself) for mankind? Not the sin part, but as 🤬 . Why not seriously send your own son, no 🤬 involved. How does that even work? When Jesus spoke to his disciples and said "I am not good, no one is good but the Father" what the hell is he saying? Why is 🤬 denying he is good but saying he is good. Or how does Jesus (who's 🤬 ) ask 🤬 why he has forsook him (Jesus). 🤬 forsook himself?

    I don't think I ever FULLY grasped the concept of Jesus is 🤬 . In what way was Jesus 🤬 ?

    quik answer: In the beginning there was Elohim/🤬 (two operating as one), They were both equal in power since they both were spirit beings, they dwell in heaven amongst the holy Angels,



    One left his position as 🤬 & became man, according to the bible they called HIM Jesus BUT HE was sent in the name of the FATHER:"Jesus", he didn't come in HIS hebrew name (whichever one you would like to use) so since HE left his position in the GODhead, that left only the Father in heaven & the holy angels.... as a man Jesus wasn't 🤬 , he became the son of man & the son of 🤬 (UNDERSTAND this, there are 3 sets of sons of 🤬 according to the bible , 1)the men in the flesh that do the will of the Father, 2)the Holy angels are called sons of 🤬 3) Those that will be raised in the ressurection & make it into the Fathers Kingdom are considered sons of 🤬 )



    As a man Jesus was the son of 🤬 since HE came in the flesh to teach us the will of the Father (LAW, COMMANDMENTS,KEEPING THE SABBATH & THE HOLYDAYS) & how to follow in HIS foot steps (this is a way of life to be Christlike, not like these scc & christiantiy teach everything contrary to what Jesus taught), HE led by example in order for us to become just like HE became (🤬 ) when he overcame death after HIS ressurrection & ALL power was given to him & HE became 🤬 THE SON ALONG W/🤬 THE FATHER (2), He went back into the 3rd heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father until it's time to make HIS enemies HIS footstool.



    John 1:1

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with 🤬 , and the Word was 🤬 .



    Jesus has many titles & names: one of HIS names is the "word of 🤬 ".., SO WE see in John, in the beginning was the WORD/JESUS & THE WORD/JESUS WAS WITH 🤬 , (🤬 /THE FATHER) & THE WORD/JESUS WAS 🤬 .... (UNDERSTAND this:Jesus has been the only 🤬 that the creation has ever dealt with from the beginning (GARDEN OF EVE to the end Armaggedon)..(this is why HIS other name is the ALPHA (BEGINNING) & THE OMEGA (THE END)... no one of flesh & blood has ever dealt w/the Father & won't deal with HIM UNLESS we make it into HIS kingdom which will be in New Jerusalem after the great throne judgement.







    John 1:14

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



    Revelation 1:8

    I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


    Revelation 19:13
    And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of 🤬 .







    Also the scc make the angel out to be a "🤬 " but they are not gods, they are ministering spirits/servants to the Father & the Son... satan is servant along w/the 2/3rds of evil angels that followed after him.... the holy angels such as Michael & Gabriel are the Holy angels along w/the other Holy angels that remained in Heaven... this is why Revelation breaks it down, the protocol of the Father, which HE gives the message to the Son, the Son gives the message to the Angel & the angel delivers the message to the children of Israel & in return the Israelites are to deliver the message to the rest of the sons & daughters of Adam...



    Revelation 1
    1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which 🤬 gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:





    Once we get understanding of the Word we will see that the LORD is trying to recreate us to become Gods like them...this is why we all have a choice weather to follow the Most High according to His will or continue to live according to the world/religion & their false doctrine.
  • kids in america_
    kids in america_ Members Posts: 213
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    🤬 became flesh, which was Jesus. Was 🤬 a fetus? A baby? A toddler? A child? If so, why are there stories of Jesus as a child being so "bad" and "rotten" ??

    Also, why would 🤬 send himself as his own son to die (sacrifice himself) for mankind? Not the sin part, but as 🤬 . Why not seriously send your own son, no 🤬 involved. How does that even work? When Jesus spoke to his disciples and said "I am not good, no one is good but the Father" what the hell is he saying? Why is 🤬 denying he is good but saying he is good. Or how does Jesus (who's 🤬 ) ask 🤬 why he has forsook him (Jesus). 🤬 forsook himself?

    I don't think I ever FULLY grasped the concept of Jesus is 🤬 . In what way was Jesus 🤬 ?

    Jesus was not 🤬 just a man. Jesus was often called “the Son of man” in the NT. In Hebrew thought, “the Son of man” meant an ordinary, human being. He was a mortal man.