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Did 🤬 of the Bible use Trial and Error?

GSonII
GSonII Members Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭
edited October 2010 in R & R (Religion and Race)
I read the bible and try to make it a part of my daily life but like anything that has not been totally proven I have my questions and concerns on the way it is being taught, religion and Christianity that is. Most of my questions don't lie with the bible they lie with people and there perceptions, ways of explaining things, it sometime feels like people can't except things for what they are and have to resort to making stuff up.

Moving on, Genesis 6 Chapter verses 5-7. These verses basically speak on how 🤬 saw that man was wicked so he decided to destroy them the 1st time with the flood with the exception of Noah his crew of animals and creatures and so on. So, my question is if 🤬 is this all-knowing perfect spirit why did he have to use what we would call Trial and Error? Why did he have to try something see that it did not work out the way he would like then go to a second option and basically destroy it?

Lastly, I choose to believe in a higher being or a creator that we refer to as 🤬 and I must admit that I have no clue rather I am 100% correct or not it is just faith and I am glad to have some measure of it. Be blessed and bless each other.:cool:

Comments

  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Prude FieldsMembers Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    Vibe(I'm pretty sure it's Vibe) has some interesting thoughts on the all knowing-ness of 🤬 , hope he steps in here and shares his thoughts.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited October 2010
    Yes, he used trial in error. Vibe will drop the all knowingness stuff, but yes it was trial and error.

    A 🤬 that has no wrong is the mirror image of perfection simply 🤬 up and wasn't perfect.
  • universaltruth
    universaltruth Members Posts: 193
    edited October 2010
    Yes, he used trial in error. Vibe will drop the all knowingness stuff, but yes it was trial and error.

    A 🤬 that has no wrong is the mirror image of perfection simply 🤬 up and wasn't perfect.

    Definatly this, the way the Bible, especially the Old Testament shows 🤬 is more the writers own perspective on 🤬 more then the actual truth of things
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    GSonII wrote: »
    I read the bible and try to make it a part of my daily life but like anything that has not been totally proven I have my questions and concerns on the way it is being taught, religion and Christianity that is. Most of my questions don't lie with the bible they lie with people and there perceptions, ways of explaining things, it sometime feels like people can't except things for what they are and have to resort to making stuff up.

    Moving on, Genesis 6 Chapter verses 5-7. These verses basically speak on how 🤬 saw that man was wicked so he decided to destroy them the 1st time with the flood with the exception of Noah his crew of animals and creatures and so on. So, my question is if 🤬 is this all-knowing perfect spirit why did he have to use what we would call Trial and Error? Why did he have to try something see that it did not work out the way he would like then go to a second option and basically destroy it?

    Lastly, I choose to believe in a higher being or a creator that we refer to as 🤬 and I must admit that I have no clue rather I am 100% correct or not it is just faith and I am glad to have some measure of it. Be blessed and bless each other.:cool:

    Well, I guess we would have to lie on the idea that 🤬 is imperfect? I mean as a believer that sucks to hear, see or say right? How dare anyone say that. But there's instances in the bible that I've come across that seem to show 🤬 as a not all knowing being.

    We can start off and nail the top things that is said to be known by 🤬 .

    1. Thoughts/thinking: Clearly in the bible it's said 🤬 knows our thoughts/what were thinking. If you really think about it, your thought is always current. So 🤬 is just basically a mind reader. He reads your current state, which leads to all the other things...

    2. Knows where you're going, what you're going to do: A thought is used to execute these things, so in that light it seems 🤬 knows it before you do but really he doesn't. Just because you haven't arrived to McDonalds, doesn't mean 🤬 magically knew. He had seen a thought, which is how you both know lol

    3. Knows the words before they exit your mouth: Again, it's a thought before you say. Everyone thinks, then speaks. It's such a split second time between that though it doesn't seem like we even think then speak. Again, 🤬 is reading a CURRENT thought. Which is how he is able to "know your words beforehand".

    That's just a few, and it all normally resorts back to the thought. Also being that 🤬 see's everything, that's how he knows where we are all at.

    Also, the supreme knowledge of 🤬 is given to him because 🤬 "knows his creation and the end times". Well think about that. It's normal for a creator to know what he has created, to know the details, specs, numbers, functions, outcome etc. Being a creator, you have the power to end it as well. 🤬 simply knows the creation because he's the creator and knows the end because he is the creator.

    It's like if I create a sand castle; I know how many towers I've built, I know how long it took, I know how many shells I've used, I know how many cups of water I've used for the moat, I know how big it is etc. I'm the creator, I took my time and created this thing. Now I know it's end time as well, I know I will destroy it before I leave the beach.

    Nothing special about that.

    Now I brought all those up before I brought up my things that show 🤬 isn't all knowing. (in case you try to use them later here)

    Using Genesis first, your asked about verses.

    Genesis 6

    5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
    6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
    7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them."


    This shows that 🤬 isn't all knowing. If he was, then the verse should show he expected it in some way. It doesn't. It shows us he is grieved, heart filled with pain, he's sorry he even made them. This is only ONE instance where he shows he didn't know this was going to happen.

    Another instance was when 🤬 asked Abraham to 🤬 his son Issac. Remember, they took a journey to this place 🤬 told him about. This was a 3 day journey. When Abraham arrived and built the alter he got ready to sacrifice his ONLY SON ISSAC to 🤬 then 🤬 stops him...

    12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear 🤬 , because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

    I found the key words here interesting, "NOW I KNOW YOU FEAR 🤬 ". Which means what? He didn't before. Now if he did, why say it that way? He only knew at that instant. He traveled 3 days to this place and 🤬 didn't know.

    Also, a verse when 🤬 was hearing the outcry about 🤬 and Gomorrah.

    20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against 🤬 and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

    🤬 has to come down to earth himself, or send angels whichever, and see if it's as bad as it's being made out to be, THEN he will know. Which means, again, at this current time he doesn't know the extent of sin in 🤬 and Gomorrah.

    Those instances show us that 🤬 ISN'T all knowing. I mean it still shows 🤬 as powerful though. Reading minds, being able to tell you your whole past, what you're thinking, what your heart is etc. That still is a big deal, but what I've said for some (or many really) really brings down 🤬 as 🤬 . 🤬 himself never said anything of these sorts, the men in the bible did. They said he was all knowing, they made him that way. I've yet to find an instant where 🤬 says this himself.

    Hope that sort of helps you...
  • GSonII
    GSonII Members Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    Well, I guess we would have to lie on the idea that 🤬 is imperfect? I mean as a believer that sucks to hear, see or say right? How dare anyone say that. But there's instances in the bible that I've come across that seem to show 🤬 as a not all knowing being.

    We can start off and nail the top things that is said to be known by 🤬 .

    1. Thoughts/thinking: Clearly in the bible it's said 🤬 knows our thoughts/what were thinking. If you really think about it, your thought is always current. So 🤬 is just basically a mind reader. He reads your current state, which leads to all the other things...

    2. Knows where you're going, what you're going to do: A thought is used to execute these things, so in that light it seems 🤬 knows it before you do but really he doesn't. Just because you haven't arrived to McDonalds, doesn't mean 🤬 magically knew. He had seen a thought, which is how you both know lol

    3. Knows the words before they exit your mouth: Again, it's a thought before you say. Everyone thinks, then speaks. It's such a split second time between that though it doesn't seem like we even think then speak. Again, 🤬 is reading a CURRENT thought. Which is how he is able to "know your words beforehand".

    That's just a few, and it all normally resorts back to the thought. Also being that 🤬 see's everything, that's how he knows where we are all at.

    Also, the supreme knowledge of 🤬 is given to him because 🤬 "knows his creation and the end times". Well think about that. It's normal for a creator to know what he has created, to know the details, specs, numbers, functions, outcome etc. Being a creator, you have the power to end it as well. 🤬 simply knows the creation because he's the creator and knows the end because he is the creator.

    It's like if I create a sand castle; I know how many towers I've built, I know how long it took, I know how many shells I've used, I know how many cups of water I've used for the moat, I know how big it is etc. I'm the creator, I took my time and created this thing. Now I know it's end time as well, I know I will destroy it before I leave the beach.

    Nothing special about that.

    Now I brought all those up before I brought up my things that show 🤬 isn't all knowing. (in case you try to use them later here)

    Using Genesis first, your asked about verses.

    Genesis 6

    5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
    6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
    7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them."


    This shows that 🤬 isn't all knowing. If he was, then the verse should show he expected it in some way. It doesn't. It shows us he is grieved, heart filled with pain, he's sorry he even made them. This is only ONE instance where he shows he didn't know this was going to happen.

    Another instance was when 🤬 asked Abraham to 🤬 his son Issac. Remember, they took a journey to this place 🤬 told him about. This was a 3 day journey. When Abraham arrived and built the alter he got ready to sacrifice his ONLY SON ISSAC to 🤬 then 🤬 stops him...

    12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear 🤬 , because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

    I found the key words here interesting, "NOW I KNOW YOU FEAR 🤬 ". Which means what? He didn't before. Now if he did, why say it that way? He only knew at that instant. He traveled 3 days to this place and 🤬 didn't know.

    Also, a verse when 🤬 was hearing the outcry about 🤬 and Gomorrah.

    20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against 🤬 and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

    🤬 has to come down to earth himself, or send angels whichever, and see if it's as bad as it's being made out to be, THEN he will know. Which means, again, at this current time he doesn't know the extent of sin in 🤬 and Gomorrah.

    Those instances show us that 🤬 ISN'T all knowing. I mean it still shows 🤬 as powerful though. Reading minds, being able to tell you your whole past, what you're thinking, what your heart is etc. That still is a big deal, but what I've said for some (or many really) really brings down 🤬 as 🤬 . 🤬 himself never said anything of these sorts, the men in the bible did. They said he was all knowing, they made him that way. I've yet to find an instant where 🤬 says this himself.

    Hope that sort of helps you...

    Yeah it helps that someone is not trying to make it out to be something that it is not.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    GSonII wrote: »
    Yeah it helps that someone is not trying to make it out to be something that it is not.

    Where do you stand on this?
  • GSonII
    GSonII Members Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    Where do you stand on this?

    Only a imperfect being or spirit uses trial and error. There is nowhere else to stand with the brain of a mortal human being. Now if I were a spirit that has never come to earth maybe I would think differently. Lastly, as I stated in the OP I really don't have a problem with the bible though. It reads how it reads. I just don't believe in making things up and the way it reads is that trial and error was used by a spirit that most would want you to believe is perfect, but I still have a measure of faith and hope and a lot of love for humans because we are all in similar situations
  • GSonII
    GSonII Members Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    I have to add just because the Bible could be a farce at worst and not 100% accurate most likely that does not mean that 🤬 does not exist.
  • toktaylor
    toktaylor Members Posts: 612 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    GSonII wrote: »
    I have to add just because the Bible could be a farce at worst and not 100% accurate most likely that does not mean that 🤬 does not exist.

    Exactly..the bible is just man's attempt at recording what he was told or what he saw. With todays technology people have seen and recorded many things and yet we find ways to ridicule them so imagine someone in the past trying to record events without cameras and videos. The fact that we find holes in many of the stories does not mean that there is no 🤬 , in fact what it means is that their experiences were so fantastic they were impulsed to record it.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited October 2010
    toktaylor wrote: »
    Exactly..the bible is just man's attempt at recording what he was told or what he saw. With todays technology people have seen and recorded many things and yet we find ways to ridicule them so imagine someone in the past trying to record events without cameras and videos. The fact that we find holes in many of the stories does not mean that there is no 🤬 , in fact what it means is that their experiences were so fantastic they were impulsed to record it.

    But saying that 🤬 created a group that was not perfect and had to wipe them out isn't man trying to interpret it. That would had to have been directly influenced by 🤬 . Meaning he is imperfect.

    The bible being a full of 🤬 book also doesn't dismiss that a 🤬 like being exists.
  • toktaylor
    toktaylor Members Posts: 612 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    But saying that 🤬 created a group that was not perfect and had to wipe them out isn't man trying to interpret it. That would had to have been directly influenced by 🤬 . Meaning he is imperfect.

    The bible being a full of 🤬 book also doesn't dismiss that a 🤬 like being exists.
    i personally dont think that the flood was a world wide event...science has proven that that there is evidence that suggest that some part of the earth was flooded. The author or Noah only knew of the world as where they were living at the time, so that story might be greatly exaggerated.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited October 2010
    toktaylor wrote: »
    i personally dont think that the flood was a world wide event...science has proven that that there is evidence that suggest that some part of the earth was flooded. The author or Noah only knew of the world as where they were living at the time, so that story might be greatly exaggerated.

    Or the black sea flooded and they just didn't have any other explanation at that time so attributed it to a supernatural event.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    toktaylor wrote: »
    i personally dont think that the flood was a world wide event...science has proven that that there is evidence that suggest that some part of the earth was flooded. The author or Noah only knew of the world as where they were living at the time, so that story might be greatly exaggerated.

    Exactly, it was the "world" to them, as far as they could see. Also, the animals (if ever collected) were collected in his area. Not the worlds.
  • GSonII
    GSonII Members Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    toktaylor wrote: »
    i personally dont think that the flood was a world wide event...science has proven that that there is evidence that suggest that some part of the earth was flooded. The author or Noah only knew of the world as where they were living at the time, so that story might be greatly exaggerated.

    Could be correct but doesn't that kind of lesson the significance of the bible to say that most of these things only applied to a really restricted group of people. That would kinda lesson 🤬 's power IMO.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited October 2010
    ether-i-am wrote: »
    Why didn't you refer him/her to me? I know stuff! Let me sum it up.

    The creator, I am that I am, told me, Ether-I-am, that there is not mistakes i.e. It is what is what it is. Good, bad, evil and all.

    Chozen and Ether, it's like Gods Batman and Robin.

    🤬 told me Im Chozen to win
    He told him he is Ether...

    Y'all that keep praying at get nothing LAUCE!!!. LMAO UMAD!
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Prude FieldsMembers Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    ether-i-am wrote: »
    Why didn't you refer him/her to me? I know stuff!

    Cuz I.... well.... I mean.... it's just that... idk : (
  • shootemwon
    shootemwon Members Posts: 4,635 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    Isn't it strange that 🤬 sometimes gets angry in the Old Testament, then? If he knew everything that happened before it happened, why was he so emotional about it?
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    GSonII wrote: »
    I read the bible and try to make it a part of my daily life but like anything that has not been totally proven I have my questions and concerns on the way it is being taught, religion and Christianity that is. Most of my questions don't lie with the bible they lie with people and there perceptions, ways of explaining things, it sometime feels like people can't except things for what they are and have to resort to making stuff up.

    Moving on, Genesis 6 Chapter verses 5-7. These verses basically speak on how 🤬 saw that man was wicked so he decided to destroy them the 1st time with the flood with the exception of Noah his crew of animals and creatures and so on. So, my question is if 🤬 is this all-knowing perfect spirit why did he have to use what we would call Trial and Error? Why did he have to try something see that it did not work out the way he would like then go to a second option and basically destroy it?

    Lastly, I choose to believe in a higher being or a creator that we refer to as 🤬 and I must admit that I have no clue rather I am 100% correct or not it is just faith and I am glad to have some measure of it. Be blessed and bless each other.:cool:

    I don't believe it to be trial and error in respect to 🤬 . I could be wrong, but my idea of trial and error is that you go with what you think works. If the result is wrong, you start completely over; no survivors. Even if there is some hint of progress, if it isn't 100%, you start over. Why make this exception of just having Noah and family live?
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    alissowack wrote: »
    I don't believe it to be trial and error in respect to 🤬 . I could be wrong, but my idea of trial and error is that you go with what you think works. If the result is wrong, you start completely over; no survivors. Even if there is some hint of progress, if it isn't 100%, you start over. Why make this exception of just having Noah and family live?

    Well being that all were living 'wicked' in their ways, 🤬 found to destroy them ALL. BUT 🤬 found Noah, pretty much a being in 🤬 's eyes that was "pure" so to say. So IMO 🤬 felt a pure one could re-populate the world and I guess be pure from him??

    Trail and error still.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    Well being that all were living 'wicked' in their ways, 🤬 found to destroy them ALL. BUT 🤬 found Noah, pretty much a being in 🤬 's eyes that was "pure" so to say. So IMO 🤬 felt a pure one could re-populate the world and I guess be pure from him??

    Trail and error still.

    Noah was not pure. He was, from mankind's standpoint, no different from the so-called wicked. He was still a product of man (Adam and Eve to be specific) and should have met the fate of everyone else. And even if the argument for trial and error lingers on, Noah's lineage didn't produce the most "innocent" people either as a result of "starting over". Why not even take it back to Adam and Eve...wipe them out and start over? That would have been the best place to start.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    shootemwon wrote: »
    Isn't it strange that 🤬 sometimes gets angry in the Old Testament, then? If he knew everything that happened before it happened, why was he so emotional about it?

    Bingo........your traditional nutjob Christian would just say some 🤬 like "We have choices, and our choices get 🤬 upset"

    I never understood that though, if 🤬 knows what's gonna happen before it does, why is he gonna get upset? If anything, he should be even MORE forgiving.

    Than again, the Bible and its supporters are full of 🤬 anyway.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    Well being that all were living 'wicked' in their ways, 🤬 found to destroy them ALL. BUT 🤬 found Noah, pretty much a being in 🤬 's eyes that was "pure" so to say. So IMO 🤬 felt a pure one could re-populate the world and I guess be pure from him??

    Trail and error still.

    Nice post right here.....I'll use this whenever a Christian freak tries to convince me 🤬 does not make mistakes
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    It's strange but the bible 🤬 obviously makes mistakes. Funny how he's put up so high, said to be perfect and all knowing but isn't. At least to ME. Because how does 🤬 say he's "grieved" for creating us? To feel grief is to feel sorrow or sorry for even creating us, meaning he was like "I shouldn't have made you guys, I didn't know this was to happen". THEN he allows us to still live? Doesn't make sense.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    It's strange but the bible 🤬 obviously makes mistakes. Funny how he's put up so high, said to be perfect and all knowing but isn't. At least to ME. Because how does 🤬 say he's "grieved" for creating us? To feel grief is to feel sorrow or sorry for even creating us, meaning he was like "I shouldn't have made you guys, I didn't know this was to happen". THEN he allows us to still live? Doesn't make sense.

    Well, who is to say what is perfect in respect to 🤬 ? I could be wrong, but I believe there is more to it than some percentage game; that we can rate 🤬 's perfection by giving Him a 10 or 100% for going for an eternity with no slip ups. And if He grieves, who's to question it? If He is the Creator of our emotions, it's fitting to know He can grieve.